Excellent words Catherine, we have to stand united as a nation, and not turn on each other. We the people are our best asset.

Bollox, where were the ICTU and the rest of them during the last 4 years, when all their pay was protected under the Croke Park Agreement?!? It’s only now that pay is clearly back on the table that these protests are being organised, this has nothing to do with bank debt or anything of the sort, this is about trying to force the continuation of a set of completely fúcked up policies that dictate that it is correct to continue borrowing 1 billion Euro a month more than we collect in tax, just to keep the lights on in this country and meet current, (not even capital), liabilities, and that we can just keep putting it on the never never. If pay can go up in the good times, then it has to be able to come down in harsher times, like it does everywhere else, and just because labour is organised in the public sector, doesn’t mean that the principle that we generally can only spend the same as what we generate in taxes, can get set aside. People need to snap out of it and get real and start facing up to pay cuts that are required so that we are not borrowing a billion Euro a month just to keep the lights on.

@John Sinclair – well said. In a nutshell.

@ John

They’ve been organising marches for the past 4 years, some of those had about 100,000 people at them. For instance there was a large one on November 27, 2010.

disagree john, sure who in good times is going to protest?? why on gods earth would you. Oh as general secretary of ICTU i think or members are paid too much lets go on protest for lower pay?? are we on same planet here??

pay had to go up in good times to meet more expensive cost of living and i don’t know where you head has been the last few years but pay has gone down. in many cases far more for frontline then anywhere else in economy where people still are employed. thats not even being protested. the protest is again even more savage cuts to people who have already given more then fair share. if someone is professional and qualified they command more then min wage. If your the likes of a paramedic that earned lets say 60k in good times with over time and allowances id say that was good value for someone so skilled and that person might now be on 40k. I dont know but to me that seems catastrophic drop and now they say well you need to pay even more. NO, same goes for guards nurses and teacher too. I have sister in law who is teacher and the horror stories of them having to supply the class room with things and pay for printing out of own pocket, thats just NOT on.

Fully support ICTU and AGSI on this one

Can anyone tell me why the GRA decided not to attend or support this march today? Is it not in their members interests that they get out in support of each other and protest on a united front? With all the other 24/7 members

I could be wrong, but the GRA aren’t a union. They cannot get involved in official union discussions or protests. The Gardai aren’t allowed to be involved in a union.
I’m sure there are member there in a private capacity though.

Danny is correct in that they are a representative association as opposed to a union. However the AGSI (sergeants & inspectors association) are marching today so I dont know why the GRA decided not to participate

Agree with the protest but instead of calling for “No pay cuts” they should call for pay cuts for the upper tiers across the public sector. That would shake things up. Higher civil servants have used front line workers as a shield for too long.

Members are there in private capacity. On prev occasion ICTU wanted govt to take cuts from unsocial etc allowances and not basic pay/core pay… GRA argued that unsocial hrs etc are Garda core pay. Eventually they backed off and the load was spread over all public service in equal %. GRA have bussed members to a lot of events (incl carrying AGSI members on buses). If people can realise there were buses etc laid on nationally the other week. There is the same use of GRA (in effect members GRA members) resources next week when GRA have to try and get a large turn out for the 24/7 frontline alliance open meeting in Dublin on Monday 18th…. If the energy was put into this ICTU march it would take from turnout on 18th…. The same people going to dundalk and then ictu march and then hoping they go to 24/7 event…….Members have had enough of the “Grand old duke of York mentality”…. The rhyme Marching them up to the top of the hill and marching them down again …
The ICTU event is confined to trade unions, they have allocated the matching positions to their affiliates abd left a spot at back fir “all others, non union” ….GRA or even others like AGSI in the 24/7 would have to march at the back of parade with the protest groups such as Eirigí etc or try tail in behind a 24/7 group like prison officers….

There will be other protest groups there including ones who have stated online in forums and Facebook that they intend to cause trouble at end of march….(that might or might not happen). GRA has our members and the fight re garda pay as priority

Guess we shouldn’t believe the Garda estimates on this one then……….

The GRA should not attend events like today and also should not take part in the frontline alliance. As a police force they should be protesting alone and demanding a separate pay deal. Marching today would make the Gardai’s battle with the government about pay alone . The GRA must demand resources , support from the government and no cuts to pay. Recent outpouring of public emotion has shown that the vast majority of the public are behind this. The government have already recognized the police force as being different by making it illegal to withdraw services. Many other European countries including England have separated the Police from the public service and it’s high time it happened here !!!

Good man mick. Get a stress pill from doctor of your bothered that much.

Gra not at this for few reasons I think. Might be waiting for rest of front line such as fire services and nurses to really make big big numbers. Secondly for sergeants who are off today its easy for them and by and large most of the higher ranks dont work weekends.secondly fat more guards would gave to communicated with transport arranged. Harder to organise.

to what end?

Not in our name! We, the people, will not tolerate this any longer!
You just going to criticise Revolting Peasant? Or are you going to see something you don’t approve of, get up off your arse & change it??

@michael i have been to dozens of protests since 2010, i am asking a simple question, one that you seem to have taken an entirely different meaning from than what it says

@Rob @ Michael – did you join them?! Or did you stay in your warm comfy house and bitch on the Journal instead?

Not home from the Galway rally yet – dripping wet & tired, but I’m doing my bit! You?

Me? No – I am at home watching the rugby. Jack O’Connor wrecks my head

John Mefeinclair I learnt in school that when you work you get paid, if you dont get paid fairly for your work it’s abuse! People in frontline jobs face adversity and danger as an everyday occurrence, our front line workers are financially hurting, don’t tell me they arn’t coz my husband and son are frontline! Tell me, would you put up with already two pay cuts, increase in prsi, USC, pension levy and now a possible third cut, I think you had better educate yourself to the real world and not your belligerent ‘screw all the civil servants’ world!

At Marie Agnew. I have also had all the things you mention – and I have to pay for my pension privately – and have been doing so for 29 years. So don’t proceed to lecture people without having our facts straight.

Eamonn Bolger everyone has the right to protest about their pay including you, all civil servants are heavily taxed like the rest of us. And I find it very insulting that you insinuate that my husband does not pay for his pension, he has always contributed to his pension, from day one, and he too is almost 29 year in his job. Don’t forget years ago a lot of people didn’t want civil servant jobs because if low pay. All this bitching is awful.

You still have your job Michael. What about he 200,000 or so private sector workers who lost theirs – at the drop of a hat?

You must be on massive money to begin with if they cut 800 a month off you. Or else you are exaggerating as many public service workers do

Did y’all not read the first comment suggesting that everyone stop fighting with eachother and direct their energy to enforcing positive change?? All this arguing about private sector vs public sector, employed vs unemployed is a waste of time! “I’m worse off than you”, “NO I’M worse off,” “at least you HAVE a job,” blaa blaa blaa… The bottom line is that as ordinary people, public sector or private sector, unemployed in work, each and every one of us are being screwed by this government to some extent or another. PLEASE, stop bickering and start directing your anger to where it REALLY belongs!

why are they even entitled to a pension?

There hasn’t been a word out of public servant unions in the last few years. Even when the government went after the new teachers last year, all was quiet. Where were the unions when private sector workers contracts were being ripped up everywhere? It’s only now that their precious Croke park deal is under serious threat that they’re starting to protest. Thousands of private sector jobs have been lost in the last 6 years, with many of them only getting statutory payments, and the unions didn’t care. It’s too late for us, so I’m finding it hard to sympathise with what’s going on now. I was an active trade unionist for years, but I’ve become so disillusioned by their corrupt, out for themselves attitudes, that I’d never contemplate joining a union again. I really do hope that huge numbers turn up and the government decide to take their views on board, but I’m not holding my breath.

@ Rodrigo

They’ve been marching on a fairly regular basis since 2009 at least; some of those marches had about 100,000 at them.

When they went after new teachers the ASTI began to take legal action against the government: http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/browse/8/article/new-entrants-test-cases-needed-for-legal-challenge//back_to/latest-news/

How were things allowed to get this far? I guess most of us are busy with our lives and don’t pay attention to what’s going on on the political and financial front. Anyone who does pay attention knows, that the root of this misery is the debt the government guaranteed back in 2008. And instead of doing something about it ever since, the government acts like there is no other option and the people seem not to care and just watch. And they bicker about the private and public sector :). There are options – unity, protests against the root of the problem, ie. against the debt, against the government doing nothing, demanding a viable solution. Iceland survived, why shouldn’t Ireland survive? But how many people even think about these things at all?

But will “official” report suggest much larger?

Union subs are graduated based on what wage you earn; if you got a paycut then your union subs also went down.

There is if you are a creditor of IRBC.

That is true O’Reilly, it’s straight out of Father Ted. A union leadership organising a protest and then claiming it’s against Europe and not the Government – the traitors who signed this off last Wednesday.

They did. Only labour didn’t.

That’s it really Ru.

Yes. Public service workers who have committex fraud, assault etc are suspended from duty but on full pay. Ridiculous. I worked in the public service for a few years. The abuse of sick days, privilege days etc is shocking. We used to joke that even if we murdered our bitch of a line manager we would still have our jobs!!

Nope, my mams friend who was a nurse made one bad judgement and she was struck off the register like there was no 2moro. It was human error really but there’s no room for human error in the frontline service.

Not true at all….

the civil service union in this country is a farce, management and staff should have separate unions, instead, they have one union that is controlled by management, they persistently follow policy that is in the best interest of their upper tiers, it shouldn’t be called a union at all, its more like a political party

We do have separate Unions for management and workers, get your facts right

Now Rodger. The exact same could be said to you. If you don’t like the way this country is being run you know where the ports are.

Or maybe you could protest and lobby to change the country / job to accommodate your view.

The public sector are not the only employees to protest at their working condition.

you do? called what exactly?

It’s not just a public service protest. It’s against the nationalisation of corrupt private debt while profit is still private.

“Privileged lifestyle”. Can you explain to me how I have a privileged lifestyle as a Paramedic with the HSE? Last time I checked I have to work for a living, the same as everybody else!

Privileged lifestyle.
Yeah, it’s a real privileged lifestyle I live working 70 hour weeks.
Troll.

No doubt the march will be a great success for all concerned with all unions, eirigi, Sinn Fein etc quoting how it shows the people have just had enough. Perhaps the journal good do a straw poll to see what % of those attending are public sector workers.

Speaking for myself and those people I know in the private sector we will not be attending this march or any forthcoming marches. We are more concerned in ensuring our businesses or those of our employers can continue to survive whilst we are taxed to oblivion to feed the beast that is public sector pay and conditions

Taxed to oblivion.
I pay 60% between tax, USC, PRD’s and statutory pensions.
I took home €840 for two weeks work, incidentally, same two weeks work where I worked 135hours.
I am not being paid overtime, therefore am relying on getting my time back on leave. Which will not happen due to fact that I am covering 2 positions which are not being recruited for, and my own.

Privileged lifestyle? Pat u haven’t a clue! You know what’s a privileged lifestyle is to me? The family I know who don’t work, get their lovely decorated council house for nothing, holidays every year, sky television, kids in best of clothes, iPads, kids with iPhones. While my family go around in rags, wondering if we’re going to lose our home, is their enough food for the week, utility bills not being paid. Partner never home, always working the sh!ttest hours while everyone else is out getting p!ssed! Yea maybe there are some civil servants who got it cushy but a hell of a lot don’t!

What privileged lifestyle would that be? I don’t have a big car I get away on a holiday once a year we have to pay the same bills you do after all the deductions that are taken from our gross pay (many of which you will never have to pay) we take home barely a living wage. So please tell us who among the rank and file public servants is living it large?

When was the last time you were spat at ? Or how about assaulted ? Or maybe verbally abused on an hourly basis. When was the last time you had to come home to your loved ones and tell them you have to avoid contact because you were spat on or blood sprayed by a hepatitis carrier and have to hope your going to be clear .
This is the life of public sector workers in the emergency sector . Garda ,Nurse ,Paramedics ,Firefighters. And you would have there conditions reduced because you have an issue with public sector employees . Wake up

Surely by working 70 hours a week James, you’re doing someone else out of a job. Isn’t that just greed then?

Rodrigo, you say that like I’m the one who’s refusing to hire?

Are you being deliberately facetious? Front line HSE is dreadfully understaffed. We in the public sector are constantly told to do more with less and yet when someone points out that they are, you call them greedy.

Silly comment, Id say you can’t wait to vote FF back in Pat. We all (who are fortunate enough to work) pay the same taxes. Who should pay public servants if not the state? The magic public service pay fairy?

Without private profit there would not be enough tax to pay Public Sector wage and pensions. If that’s what you want it can I’m sure be arranged.

Rodrigo – greedy? Did you not see what James wrote? “I took home €840 for two weeks work, incidentally, same two weeks work where I worked 135hours.” If he was greedy he would not be working in Ireland. We should be grateful we have any healthcare workers here at all.

You see I agree with you, all these state spongers getting away with ripping us off but what do we do about it, NOTHING! We are all too PC. Why isn’t there a march today against state spongers?

Fair enough Pat, I’m sure we will find top quality candidates to work for free taking abuse from drunks in A&E, changing adult nappies or even getting shot dead while doing the job. I can see the Qs building up already!!!

Luxury! I’ve only had one holiday in 7 years so compared to me you are living it large.

Agree completely! But what are you doing about it? It is not a human right for one person to abuse another, now there is a reason to march on the streets to change the laws.

Whatever arsehole disliked this comment has issues.

@ Pat Lynch – without a public sector, you wouldn’t have an economy. You’d have no roads on which to exchange goods, no bridges crossing the rivers, no law and order, no legal system, no fire service, no health service (except perhaps for the very wealthy). In this country, even the electricity generation and distribution system was built from the ground up, by the public sector. The public sector is no more dependent on the private sector than is the private sector dependent upon it. They are co-dependent. All this private versus public sector rivalry is self-defeating nonsense and serves only to make it easier for government to screw hard-working men and women which in turn makes it easy for private sector bosses to do the same.

My reply to that is to refer you to Rodrigo’s comment.

Paul, I can tolerate all the other vitriolic comments as people are entitled to their opinion but to accuse me of being a FF supporter, that goes beyond the pale. To mention me and those people who have ruined this country in the same breath has really offended me.

Yes and stands to reason that there would be no public services for anyone to avail of then pat. What’s your point? What about the public money given to private companies in the form of grants, subsidies and tax breaks? Why should the public service be demonised just because they work for the government?

Paul, I refer to my reply to AlanH, I agree it is a disgrace that you have to tolerate abuse in A&E but as I said what are you doing about it? That is something you have a possibility if changing so get out there and march to change the law.

Pat with all due respect to you, you have fallen into the same trap and swallowed the spin that a lot of people have fallen into. It is not by your own fault, all people have to go on is what they hear on the news and read in the papers or on line. Tarring front line ES personnel with the same “High wages” brush as the high earners in the public sector is a common misconception. Would you consider someone coming out with €320 to €380 per week after deductions are taken well paid? Remember out of that bills must be paid, mouths must be fed, fuel must go in the car.

Please do not mistake front line ES workers in with the higher paid members of the public service.

Sorry Pat calling someone a FF supporter is pretty bad, I withdraw that remark.

Well said !!

Unions….what a waste of my money. Risk my life and safety. Wage cut back and expected bind over and take further cutbacks. If i am cut further i am as well off on welfare.

Mark Downes …. @ Pat Lynch …. Your100% Correct Mark … And if Govt cut public sector wages then the private sector will once again use these cuts to show their private sector employees that they are due a further cut —- Private sector and public sector are only agreed on one thing, that this debt is not either of their’s making and Govt are landing it on all of us

You will find, if you read a little before commenting, that ICTU represents far more private sector workers than public. Mr Google will assist you. Go-ahead now, it’s not that hard to do…..

Well said Pat. I am a union member of 35 years standing and I’m not attending for two reasons. 1) Begg tipped his hat to the Labour traitors by saying it was a protest against Europe – not this idiot Government and 2) Union activists in Waterford objected to the building of a new City Centre here in Waterford – effectively objection to over 1,000 jobs – and then said they hoped it would proceed when it was granted by An Bord Pleanala. When it was too late. And people are expected to listen to these fools mouthing from a platform? No thanks.

Wickla.. Ha ha..

Mick, I think the point he is making about a “privileged lifestyle” is that the laws of economics do not seem to apply to he public sector. All we here about on a daily basis are “entitlements” and “increments”.

While the average Public Sector wage is €900 a week, the average Private Sector wage is €600 a week. Yes I believe people like you work very hard, but, as you said yourself, this is your choice – and your job.

The problem that most private sector workers have is that there is an apparent positive discrimination for public sector workers – for which the rest are expected to foot the bill. This is the nub of the problem and it won’t go away.

We as a country are borrowing €17bn a year to fund this – on top if the illegal gambling debt which has now been attached by the treasonous FG/Labour “Government”.

Daffy this is no laughing matter..chuckle

Average wage is artificially high due to the managements pay… The commissioners wage of 250k per year is included in working out the average wage due the rank and file Gardai… So don’t believe the hype. The same goes for wage of consultants inflating the health sectors average pay…

Don’t believe the average wages of the public sector… It is artificially high as managements wages are factored in, ie the 250k wage of the commissioner is averaged onto the Garda’s average pay… Same for consultants pay factored into health workers pay.. It’s all relative!

That average public sector wages spin is completely skewed. I saw a report around 3 months ago that spouted all sorts if averages of public v private comparing “like with like”. 2 points. 1. You can’t compare certain aspects of public sector with private sector. Gardai and firemen don’t have comparable jobs in private sector. There are private ambulances but they can’t be compared either as there is cherry picking of duties for profit in the private sector. The second point in that report was that at the very end of the piece after comparing public v private and concluding that public was much better paid they put in brackets that the calculations did not include the pension levy!!!! How is that fair? The media are lapdogs for the govt spin doctors. You watch what will happen with private sector out of hours rates after the govt cut public sectors. They will be forced down too and everyone will be standing there wondering how this happened…

Or maybe could be given fair working conditions. Just a thought.

It’s not about jobs, it’s about the debt the Irish people have been saddled with, so switching jobs is not the point. I don’t want to pay for banker gambling debt, does that mean I have to switch countries? It was our country before it was handed over to international bankers, they’re the ones who should feck off outta here

Exactly Neil, and that works for both Public and Private sector.

Then there would be no nurses, guards. Fire fighters. I know plenty whos working conditions are unacceptable, but they feel their duty is to the unfortunate people who need their services.

Believe it or not, many of our Doctors, Nurses etc are in their jobs because they genuinely care about helping people. They should not be abused.

How can you change your career with 15 per cent unemployment and mass emigration? Are you still in primary school?

You just said it there, 15% unemployment. That’s why we just need to get in with our jobs that we have.

What do you suggest then if not industrial action?