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Dublin: 15 °C Tuesday 18 June, 2013

AGSI demands ‘actions not words’ from Noonan over garda pay talks

The AGSI has today welcomed comments by the Finance Minister Michael Noonan that there was “nothing categoric” in terms of the €1 billion garda payroll cuts – but says actions and not words are needed.

Image: Laura Hutton/Photocall Ireland

THE GENERAL SECRETARY of the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors (AGSI) has today welcomed comments by the Finance Minister Michael Noonan that there was “nothing categoric” in terms of the €1 billion garda payroll cuts.

In a statement released this evening, the AGSI said it marked a move in the right direction by government, but that the organisation wanted “action on this, not of words”.

“An Garda Síochána provides a professional police service and this should be recognised by the Government by removing pay and allowance cuts as proposed for Sergeants and Inspectors,” General Secretary John Redmond said.

“It is clear that the official side want to keep staff associations in talks so they can say we negotiated away our safety measures within Croke Park 1. We are being asked to select cuts for our members which are ‘good’ for them. This is a positioned move and we will not allow ourselves be cornered into this strategy.

“AGSI members will not row back on our withdrawal from talks. At the moment there is nothing proposed for Sergeants and Inspectors which can be negotiated even if we talked until 2014.

“We will stand firm against a ‘hoodwinking strategy’ which will make slaves out of our members.”

Redmond noted that senior public servants and senior Garda managers had their annual 10 per cent bonus incorporated into their pay, around ten days before the Garda pay cuts in 2009. He added that AGSI members took a 7 per cent pay cut, while Commissioner-level An Garda Síochána took a 2 per cent cut.

“We believe that no talks have taken place since our withdrawal on 25th January as pressure mounts on the official side to keep Unions inside. We will fully support any other unions or staff associations that decide to take a stand against austerity measures that impact their members and we look forward to marching with them next Saturday 9th February in Dublin,” concluded Redmond.

Read: GRA rejects proposed cuts to garda pay and allowances

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Comments (64 Comments)

  • They can’t cut us anymore, we have no more to give. I know colleagues who have to try and take a day off as they can’t put petrol in their car but you can’t even get leave now as the units are so understaffed. Only one car in the district so people are waiting an hour or two for a response. It’s embarrassing. Detective units changing their shifts every week in order to have enough people for search & arrest operations as no overtime but you can’t see your colleagues stuck or in danger. Not been able to take leave as no cover and crime sleeps for nobody. Personal mobiles getting work calls every day on rest days. Having to use our own laptops to try and get paperwork done & for internet access. GRA telling us not to but it’s easy for them to say that, you can’t get your work done otherwise. We’re stuck inside doing paperwork which has doubled since Pulse came online instead of reducing paperwork. Cars falling apart and not being replaced.Closing rural stations which means there will be people in rural areas who never see a guard unless they’re a victim of crime and even then they’ll have to wait until a car available. Having to ring the mortgage company again to get the monthly mortgage reduced (again). Married female members who can’t afford to have a child as cant afford childcare and no family around as they live in a different county. We want to work and are bending over backwards to work because we used to love our jobs but the public have no idea how bad it really is.

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    • Marie, you need to post this on FB so more people can see it and SHARE it! That has shocked me to think that you guys are doing one of the toughest jobs in the country and this is the way your been treated by the powers that be!!!! It’s a frigging joke!!!

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    • yeah. have heard these stories. some guards did well in good times as they had property bougyt back in early 90′s or 80s and had paid off and invested for future and alot of the older guards are still doing ok. some stay on as kids in college. The problem is the younger guards who like many people bought in boom times and still have that high mortgage. But there is also a very big difference normal people if lose job can talk to banks but they will drip as much out of you as possible if still working. not only that but if your a guard in say 2005 earning 30k and you go for home loan the bank might say we will lend you 150k ( keep in mind that someone send to dublin house would be double that price easy back then. so they say sure safe job just rent out a room in house we will give you 300k which was wrong but i dont blame anyone for taking it sure you had to live someway cant be expected to rent forever. Had banks not lent recklessly to everyone there would be no housing crash. so guards have taken a massive hit more then what private sector has taken and plus if your a guard your not allowed to take second job as alot of other forces allow. Im sure most people would feel better and safer knowing that there was a garda bouncer manning the doors of a nightclub.

      stories out there yes of lads already counting each euro. No wonder when WA police offer starting salaries for professional police transferring over (65k Euro i believe)

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    • Marie
      i have to agree with chilli16 on that ye need more public awareness on this issue

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    • We’re not allowed to talk about these things. I’ve said too much as it is I just can’t bare to see the job I love being destroyed by policiticans. What I’ve said above isn’t even the tip of the iceberg.

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    • Absolute disgrace for all your hard work.You should puy this in the media.

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    • Ryan'O 02/02/13 #

      Ann Marie just wait till they scrap croke park (June/July), cut a further 7% and impose a further 10 working hours per week….it’s on the cards…across the board…teachers,nurses,Garda….wait and see. I shall say no more!

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    • @ Anne-Marie.
      This is a side we the public don’t hear or see and it is nothing short of criminal what shatter is doing. He and his ilk are finished and will be out on their useless and highly paid arses.
      Just stick with it for a few more weeks or months at worst but things will pick up and this shower will be consigned to oblivion never to get into power in living memory to come.

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    • I believe W.A. Police are inundated with emails seeking information. So so many regret not going over at the time when they were recruiting in Westmanstown.

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    • Ann-Marie why don’t the spouses, partners and families set up a representative group and speak on your behalf?? They know exactly what’s happening and are very fearful. Did the army’s families not speak on their behalf in the past? Something concrete has to be done. A group has to be set up and a media campaign organised. Also all the public representatives need to be contacted. Now is the time to be heard when Ireland is hosting the Presidency of the European Union. Also the government has been the ‘role model’, if they had any cop on they should now say that the interest rates have to be re-negotiated. This cannot continue.

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    • Very well said Marie. The public have no idea right now, but the criminals won’t be long catching on.

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    • Well said Ann Marie

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    • Julie 03/02/13 #

      Sorry to hear about your situation that is a disgrace, who told ye that ye are not allowed talk about these things? Why shouldn’t ye be allowed?

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    • Mr McDowell with his self serving Garda Act 2005. He made it illegal for Gardaí to carry out any form of industrial action(including blue flu) and prohibited them from giving certain info to the media.

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  • Actually better still read this. Copied and pasted as well
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/heres-how-we-can-build-a-better-safer-garda-siochana-3368151.html

    After the death of Detective Garda Adrian Donohue, I cannot sleep. Yes, I have emigrated, but I still care. I was a garda for seven years and am now a constable with the West Australian Police Service.

    I am in a unique position as I can see now the brilliance of An Garda Siochana in many ways, and also the things it lacks as a force due to political ignorance. My new job has opened my eyes so much.

    1. Interviewing: Allow gardai to interview in a free-flowing capacity. Gardai currently interview in a stop-start way that allows criminals time to think and evade questions. Gardai have to write everything down. Labour-intensive and pointless. When you interview a suspect in a fast, free-flowing way, the criminal is easier to nail down. Michael McDowell attempted to change this but it never happened. Why?

    2. Place Pulse (police computer system) in every vehicle. Every other police force has this as standard.

    3. A DNA database still doesn’t exist in Ireland. Currently, in Australia, if you arrest someone for a crime that carries a prison sentence of a year or more, DNA can be taken from a suspect. This gets stored to a permanent database.

    4. I think it is time to arm every garda and allow them time to practice at a firing range minimum twice a year. I am sorry but the day of Michael Staines saying, “the Garda Siochana will succeed not by force of arms or numbers, but on their moral authority as servants of the people” is over. They should be carrying tasers also.

    5. Ignore Merkel’s demands and the need to save more money when it comes to justice. If a government keeps health and justice on the right track, the people will be relatively happy, even if you do cut other things. A politician who tinkers with health and justice will get the wrath of the of the public in a recession when things fall apart… eg, a garda being killed.

    6. Give gardai cars that are roadworthy, not ready for the rubbish tip.

    7. Stop closing stations. The lack of local knowledge that gets cut off by removing community gardai is so substantial that it’s only when a killing or dreadful act occurs that investigators realise they don’t know what is going on in an area anymore.

    8. Unite the PSNI and Garda in an unprecedented way. Sign a cross-border agreement that allows gardai and PSNI to chase offenders over the border. The PSNI and Garda have a tremendous relationship. It’s time to go further.

    9. Prison sentences. Judges in Ireland… what can I say about the sentences they hand down? Enough said. This seriously needs to change.

    10. Prisons. Ireland needs more.

    11. Stop cutting garda pay. Morale drops. It affects performance.

    Constable Peter Crosbie
    WA Police and former proud member of An Garda Siochana

    Reply
  • We go about our job quietly, competently and for the most part, professionally.

    For the most part our job is great. And fulfilling. And rewarding.

    But sometimes it’s horrendous. And scary. And frustrating. And damn hard. And upsetting. And difficult. And depressing. And belittling. And soul destroying.

    And it makes us into people we don’t particularly like or respect sometimes.

    But we do it. And we put up with it. And we ask our families and friends to accept it. And so fcuking what if we ask for decent remuneration in return, because Jesus Christ nobody else will step up and take responsibility.

    We aren’t teachers or Doctors or engineers or builders or technicians or lawyers or specialists or oncologists or estate agents or journalists or farmers or vets or carpenters or social workers or soldiers or heroes.

    We are Police.

    Recognise us. Pay us. Support us. We are genuinely doing our best.

    Reply
  • We’d all strike tomorrow if we wouldn’t be fired.

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    • They can’t fire ye all…stand firm, most of us are behind ye! Get up and stand up..show them what your all made of. :)

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    • I’m not a garda but I think it’s time d garda associations call the governments bluff . What are the government gonna to do , prosecute 10, 000 Gardai for striking . ? Not a chance . Time for action lads . You will have the support of the majority of people . just read the Sunday world headline Tmr. Says it all really . And shatter will still tell lies and tell the public morale is high while his puppet callinan (a political appointment) will nod in agreement .

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    • I can safely say 99% of the population would be be behind you.

      Reply
  • http://www.thestar.ie/star/alan-shatters-appalling-joke-about-garda-stations/

    Disgusting comments made by shatter as reported by Senator John Whelan.

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  • Ann Marie im delighted you’ve come out and said all this. Its all true and more we’re simply not allowed to talk about it. Like all the gardas in dundalk working all the hours god sends since d/gda donohoes death and not claiming a penny overtime…because thats just what we do for our own. And all the other gardas from other counties coming to dundalk on their days off to help out for NOTHING. I’ve wanted to be a garda for as long as I remember but the past few years have been so hard. My husband is unemployed. Not entitled to jobseekers so one wage to support a family of four. It costs me 100 euro in petrol to get to work!!! I can’t get closer to home. .no recruitment..no transfers. Im better off on job seekers with all the perks they seem to get. ..rent allowance. ..medical card. .back to school allowance. This just cant go on.

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  • Bet the (so called) government brush over the pay cuts to an Garda and make their sleveen cuts elsewhere.
    Inspector clueless will be left with egg on his face.

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  • It’s time to stand up against the bullying tactics the government are trying to impose! If the GRA and AGSI agree to unite and take the government on at there own game they could cause world wide attention by organising work stoppages during a high profiled event such as events linked to holding the Presidency of the Council of European Union. It would be interesting to see the government arranging alternative policing and security for these events

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  • I reckon , the other unions should take example from the Garda unions and pull out of the talks. Also ALL unions should push back hard against all the austerity measures being imposed on us. Private and public sector unions. Do not allow them to divide us . The nurses are an example to us all. SOLIDARITY.

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  • The sergeants and inspectors, like everyone else, have the human right to make representations and bargain collectively, whether their organisation is called a trade union or not. I can quite see why they want to call the Government out on the disgraceful threat to break their contracts by legislation.

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    • they should, if im correct they should be like army ie not allowed to strike. pay cuts are harsh but you voted for current gov.t

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    • Gardai are not allowed to strike.

      Whatever government is in power they are still going to try cut our wages to sweet feck all. Who voted for who is not relevant in any debate.

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    • It says an awful lot of the current predicament the Gardai now see themselves in, that they are prepared to strike, or whatever form of protest they see fit to use, when their members face possible prosecution if found to be involved in or organising same!! Surely that speaks volumes!! Is the Moron Shatter going to back them into this corner!? Is he prepared for the backlash!? I think I, like the majority of the country, stand with the Guards on this one!

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  • Well said tara 100%fact . And last Wednesday all we heard was every resource is being put into the investigation . Be careful what you post on this. And well done to fitzpatricks for putting up grub to the extra gardai working for free on their days off

    Reply
  • If we agree to the extra working hour a day that saves the state 80 million a year. That is 20 million more than they are looking for over the next 3 years.

    Except we were told that the savings made from this measure would not count towards the 60 million they want to cut from us

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  • What a joke . 2 per cent pay cut to commissioner level in an garda siochana . Assistant commissioners earn over 100k while the commissioner earns 200k now these people want to cut night / Sunday/Saturday/bank holiday allowance to the plebs on the ground while they know well it won’t effect themselves coz they only work 9-5 mon to fri. Sorry lads uv picked the wrong one here . I hope agsi and the Gra stand up for once to this crap and go out on Blu flue . Shatter u are a disgrace and have set the Gardai back 20 years in your two years in power .

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  • Noonan is all talk. He didn’t even correct homework when he was teaching.

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    • If my memory serves me right when Noonan was Minister for justice , he took on the prison officers , they stood up to him , went on strike for 4 weeks and they won. Let us see if the entire public service can do this now . Alone we are all weak, but together great things can happen.

      Reply
  • I don’t usually believe in omens,good or bad but there is something very unsettling about the position,the photographer choose to take that picture at.Like two specters of stupidity and greed,sitting on either shoulder.
    “Don’t have nightmares,do sleep well.”

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  • The head on Noonan.. He looks like he’s threatenin to let John Redmond have the back of his hand..

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  • Let them cut the bloody pay and then sod off. I’d rather they cut it right across the top than bother with any more farcical pay talks. Tell us how much we owe, thanks and good luck. Senior Garda managers, many many of whom have held their 9-5 ranks for years get 2% cuts from their substantial salaries while the frontline members get burned and burned over and over. They don’t work shift so they don’t lose. Many of them are bone useless. This is just wrong and it Is a microcosm of how this disaster of a government will be forever remembered; spare the wealthy. Shift work is a disaster for Gardai at the best of times. Driving around jaded in patrol cars all night waiting for the next serious call/episode, working Christmases, weekends etc etc etc and they want to slash the wages again. Gardai already work ten hour day and night shifts. Now they want an eleven hour shift for the same price and this is on top of the cuts. The goodwill that was once in the force is now gone and so is the motivation of even the most able and dedicated guys. Only what needs to be done in future will be done. Sometimes it’s the bit extra that makes all the difference and sadly the Garda force as people remember it will be unrecognisable. In fact it is entirely conceivable that members of our rural communities will never see a Garda ever again. Now minister Shatter, take your cut, whatever it may be and kindly don’t insult us anymore.

    Reply
  • dave 03/02/13 #

    There is a march organised February 9th lets see how many turn up ??? Anybody ??

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  • chilli16 03/02/13 #

    All I know is that it’s time the law abiding citizens of this country needs to get behind the Garda and give them every bit of support that we can. The powers that be are stopping them from speaking out and striking so are we in the private sector going to let this happen or are we going to stay quiet? If we let this happen, we’re next!!

    Reply
  • jeremy34 02/02/13 #

    Wrong thread, my mistake! [Meant other thread]

    Reply
  • It’s a sort of Nimby approach. Private sector must react , and suffer , according to market demands , but not me.

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    • The Government has made no threat to pass legislation to cut private sector contracts, even in the case of the mega-banker salaries in institutions we now apparently own but do not control.

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    • Private sector company if run like the guards would not be in business very long. Not investing in your fleet and infastructure. Cutting pay on your best and brightest. If your in business providing security and seriois crime goes up you expand to tackle it. There is actually a site in the western oz police for recruiting gardai! !! The see they want and pay alot better and there has been guards that left for down under. More will go

      Guards are very different from soliders for example 99% of what you do in army is what your told. I’m guards 99% of what you do is thinking for yourself making split second judgements that you must stand over. The preparation of prosecution cases also. Any guard would do very well at a management position is the private sector. Even superintendents for what the earn in pivate sector is tiny compaired to what they could earn but most guards of all ranks stay because of the importance of what they do.

      Vast majority of public support them and while I see any actions to get a payrise right now would be unjust there should be no further cuts. Take a stand against this. No cuts to any frontline, fair pay for the men and woman that front the emergency services.

      Reply
    • I can see the cracks beginning to appear. It seems shatter has bitten off more than he can chew and is now faced with a Garda walk out.

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    • If the POA and teachers and nurses all get behind the Gardai , Well wouldn’t that be something else. THe private sector could do their bit too with a general strike. TELL their unions they want action. Tell them who is boss.

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    • Time to rekindle the 24hr Frontline Alliance.

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  • Pay and allowances have nothing whatever to do with the professionalism of the Police service and the clear implication of the “warning” to the Minister is not either “professional ” Trade Union or acceptable Garda language.

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  • The Gardai are Public Servants.If Public Servants pay and Civil Servants pay is going to be hit then the Gardai should not be exempt.
    Having said that I will say that the Public Servants and Civil Servants (those on lower pay) have already been hit and are already down about twenty percent.

    This is while the Banks still got their bonuses and pats on the back after destroying our Country.

    Reply
    • Toby we have already been hit with 7 pay related cuts and our wages are down 20+%. We cannot take anymore because we have no more to give.

      If you read Annemarie Larkin’s first post above you will see. This is happening across the country to many guards.

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    • Adrian. I am in agreement that no more of the Civil or Public Servants can be hit. Not just specifically the Gardai.

      Reply

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