Who voted them in then???

It was a one horse race William. This was a lesson Ireland needed to learn. FF, FG and Labour are finished now

You’re off the hook; it’s your landlord that’s liable. What’s more, if the building is sectioned into say 5 appartments, then he/she has to pay 500 quid.

Wouldn’t say he’s off the hook. Rent can go up and his will probably got up €8.33 per month for 11 months and €8.37 on month 12 in order to pay for this tax plus extra to make up for the months in which he didn’t pay to facilitate this tax come rent review time and as rent reviews are upwards only his landlord in the long run will likely profit from this tax. Someones misery is another persons glory.

Lol! You’re comment made me laugh it was brilliant :)

@ Roxy Blue,

Hear, hear. European Court of Justice/Human Rights won’t know what hit it!

Why does Hogan say that non payers won’t get away with it?
Why this major effort of changing legislation on data protection to ascertain the number of households there are in Ireland?
He has already reiterated that non payers will be faced with penalties and a charge on their property.
Something does not ring through about this guy and his threats.
I feel that he is a desperate politician to fulfil EU demands.
But in doing so he has overlooked certain aspects of this new tax.
He has made the crucial mistake of not translating this legislation into Irish.
If the truth was known I think this guy is on a serious backfoot.
All these threats by him and the month of march is not even over yet.

Remember David & Goliath ?
Get out your slingshots! ( not in the true sense please ).
But you know what I mean.

If ever you wanted evidence that our elected politicians hold us in distain look no further than FG. This is complete scare tactics. Legislation has to be written within the confines of our Constitution.

There is nothing to suggest that changing current Data Protection legislation to favour collection of this immoral tax is in the common good or in the services of public order.

Another idle threat from a cornered rat.

@ Stray Mutt,

Agree with you, all the way to the European Court of Justice and Human Rights! I hate bullies, never turn your back on a bully, never. Face them down, doesn’t matter if you get a nose bleed, can be washed away. Your pride can’t be washed away so easily!

Perfect protest for Irish people. All everyone has to do is…. nothing at all.

@ HI SPRUIKER

Maybe he thinks, in doing this, Enda will call a new roundabout after him! Just like the gob daa Healy-Rae wanting Aherne to name the Lissivigeen roundabout in Kerry after him when Healy-Rae gave him backing for elections2007! EUR71million bribe (allegedly) to him and Lowry to get their vote.

Labour has no face any more. At least when they represented the people of Ireland before, they were speaking for the people. Shame on Mr. Gilmore. I can’t see Joan Burton, honestly, agreeing to this bullying for much longer. I’m sure she does not want to be part of any of this.

That’s the thing. They cant even handle the scumbags raking up over a hundred convictions. The scumbags know that. Once they get a a conviction they just need to constantly commit more because our courts system cant handle it.

I will glady go to court bring it on hogan

I will meet you there Jimbo :)

And they will not be able to get 1million plus to the courts And if they change the data protection to get our information it should be taken to the European courts that this government and Mr Phil Hogan are breaking the data protection of all the house owners of Ireland

why almost? it should have been intolerable the second we heard about the Anglo bail out

Lee it’s normal practice. Scare mongering nothing more. If we all stick together they are powerless to do anything. See you in court in 2030 or there abouts.

I wonder if Government Ministers have to register?? I know they are all exempt from paying, but do they have to register?

Last straw for me was when I found that any property owned by a minister of the government is exempt from the charge. They can f*ck off.

I never knew they are exempt from paying this HHc. How come . Tell me more please.

@Susie I didn’t know about this until today when i seen this… look halfway down the page:http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/13/00247.asp
I then remember seeing this video on YouTube of Phil Hogan from 6th Jan. Skip to 1:30..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri_qrYtb1rM
This begs the question.. is signing up registering, or is it paying? Either way, the same man who has a salary of €3,255 p/w before expenses and allowances is exempt from paying “what law abiding citizens will pay”. You Sir, are a disgusting waste of skin.

The Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 provides for a number of exemptions and waivers from payment of the household charge. The exemptions from payment of the household charge are -

· Residential properties that are part of the trading stock of a business and have not been sold or been the source of any income since construction,

· Residential property owned by a Minister of the Government, a housing authority or the Health Service Executive,
etc etc
I am definitely not paying this now they can ask my A** for it ….

·

Joe Straw @
Thanks for that :)
I am going to tell every one I know now about this and share the link !

@joe does that not mean property owned by the office as versus the person… Things are often referred to as owned by government ministers… Like the minister for defence owns all of the defence forces weaponry… Doesn’t mean he gets to take it home! By the way this is a genuine question I have no idea if it means office or person…. Seems dodgy that it would mean person though.

Good point Killian ,
I will not be paying it any way , but I would like to know for sure !

Hi Joe, why do the government ministers not have to pay?

@ Joe Shaw

Hard to understand whether he has paid or just signed up. He said on the recording that he has paid up. But then when you read the Oireachtas link it looks like he’s exempt. I’ve passed on both links to friends anyway.

:)

Go and peek around your NAMA and Banking buddies accounts.

You’ll get a lot more than a hundred Euro there.

Thing is – they won’t go peeking there, HI SPRUIKER. Not at all. Heaven’s forbid.

Are we living in G.O. 1984 or are we the fighting Irish

Agree totally…’won’t get away with it’….Christ he makes it sound like murder. This guy is a political thug if ever there was one.

I said it before and I will say it again – they are using and abusing the laws.
And if they bullying thugs in government don’t get what they want by abusing already existing laws and breaking them, they then chance then to their liking!

How ar they going to change the laws on Data protection when the public is supposedly ALSO protected by European law too?
…Are they going to abuse and/or ignore those laws too?

FG and Labour = Fianna Fail and the Greens Part Two – all over again!

Forgive my typing error – I typed while still in anger at the b’stards that are just jumped up bullies and thugs in the government and thus, the Dail.

Corrected version:
I said it before and I will say it again – they are using and abusing the laws.
And if they bullying thugs in government don’t get what they want by abusing already existing laws and breaking them, they then CHANGE THEM to their liking!
How ARE they going to change the laws on Data protection when the public is supposedly ALSO protected by European law too?
…Are they going to abuse and/or ignore those laws too?
FG and Labour = Fianna Fail and the Greens Part Two – all over again!

——————————

Let be honest, they have totally fcuked this thing up!

* They have failed to proper inform the public about the national tax.
They failed to supply to each household the proper printed information about the said tax.
(They have relied instead on TV and the internet in words, feck all printed to every home!)

* Apparently the company they hired to inform the public by mass documentation – has gone bankrupt and so they just dropped the idea!

* They have decided to raid information from state bodies if possible – then discovered that some of the public ARE actually aware they might be breaking data-protection laws – so guess what, now we have this grovelling edict today that “O’ we are going to change the laws to suit us!”

* They have underestimated the unwillingness of the people not wishing to pay the “we screw-up – you pay” tax.

* Now today even three of their own FG’s TD have come out and criticised FG, Enda and Gilmore over the whole bloody fiasco!

Its a right fcuk-up from start to finish!
…But that won’t stop them from doing whatever the fcuk they feel like doing and continue to further make a balls of it!

Don’t tell me they are not Fianna Fail and The Greens all over again – just in different names, (too) high wages, perks and expensive suits!

its just amazing phil that yuo the goverment will try and change the data protection act to crusify the middle and lower class but 5 people will not hand over codes for phones in the so called anglo investigation and nothing is being done to change this ,some democracy we live in.

- “Hogan said he had the full support of the government to enact further legislation if necessary to ensure the charge is implemented in full.
“We’re looking at the Data Protection Acts, we’re looking at the Fines Act, and the Department of Justice, the Department of Finance and the Department of the Environment will be working closely together to ensure that this household charge is collected in full,” he said.” -

How dare you, you horrible individual, you’re looking to change the laws because it suits you and your mates. You are nothing but a rotten shark. BULLY! No better than the ‘unofficial’ money lenders’ on the back streets. You say that ‘THE MAJORITY’ of people want to be legally compliant. Your head is where the sun does not shine! Only 250,000 scared electorate have paid. Those electorate were probably people that were bullied in school yards when young and you have terrorised them into paying. I can just imagine you as a child in a school yard. You haven’t changed. Of course the Dep. of Justice is going to ‘twink’ the Data Protection Act – your mates are running it.

I have no respect for Pat Rabbitt or Eamonn Gilmore. Seems theirs colours have changed since entering Government with this lot. (I wasn’t a supporter of either) I act as an independent citizen. I do what I think is right not what someone else tells me is the right thing to do!

WELL said Sheila Byrne.

Spot on Declan. It becomes more evident each day.

Absolutely ! No way can we let them bully us.

No retro laws introduced to convict, fine & jail those who brought our country to it’s knees.

not at all your article was very interesting.

Paul
You are right , this is just scare mongering . The government are more worried than ever.
Just bide your time Don’t register, don’t pay and don’t panic . This is democracy at work .

Very well summised Paul Jacob.
The household charge is amounting to a tax which is based on intimidation and blackmail of the people of Ireland.

Muppets of the elite, me thinks.

Barry, muppets they are not my friend .. Do not be fooled!

Well said

Hi Tom, I agree with you. But unfortunately in article 6.1 the word ruler is there it says,

All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the state and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

So whose common good are they talking about, my guess is its theirs.

We need to change the constitution and get the word ruler out of it.

Well said Barry … and now these FFG/Labour traitors, are going to create new laws to prosecute people regardless of ability to pay this totally unfair tax. They cant even agree within their own government, whether or not its a fair tax (Edna Kanny admitted its unfair, while Hogan and Howlin think its the fairest tax they could muster). So, even though they cant agree, they are going to prosecute 85% of the population anyway. And they call this a democracy. These guys are starting to make FF look decent. And trust me, FF are the biggest shower of crooks to have ever taken a seat in our government. We need a massive change in our political system. Peter Mathews (FG) last week was told to vote against his own oireachtas proposal, in case it annoyed his fuhrer (sorry party leader). FG/Labour are not able to vote with conscience. They are following their party leaders blindly. I remember the “I was only following orders” being used as some trials in Nuremborg. That excuse did not wash, and the savages were found guilty and executed. Our current day politicians need to vote for what is right and stop voting because they are so blindly loyal to corrupt party leaders.

yes there is……. C**TS

I stand corrected David.

Ordinary decent people are suffering . We are all less well off now than we were six / twelve months ago and it doesn’t matter even if you have aa job or not . We are all paying more indirect taxes than ever before , and then they want us to pay this house hold charge , which is an indiscreet way of getting our property details so as they can charge us property tax next year and so on, and so Europe will know too.
Petrol has gone up six cent over the past week and has there been anything said on the news or in the papers ?
Not that I saw or heard .
This government is a joke .
I will not pay

they are getting worried….send out invoices if you can….Hogan u are such a fool….don’t pay and let’s get these idiots out

Exactly! Where is the change?? Ministers getting extra salary for advisors over the supposed ‘cap’

Gavan, they don’t give a fcuk.. Data pro. My foot, only when it suits them.

Oh hello, I think you mean me.

I can’t see a problem with allowing the state to collect tax in the most effective way possible.

I think the disagreement most people here have isn’t with the data protection, but the fact that there is to be a property tax in the first place.

I think we need to separate the two issues.

Utility bills could help the state catch those wealthy people avoiding the second homes charge on their investment properties or holiday homes. If the data protection change were ONLY for this purpose, the comments on this article would be about 10, not 100.

So you think it’s fine to change irish and european laws to efficiently impose charges imposed at the behest of unelected financial institutions? Be careful how you answer this. You might want the run for election at some stage and your answer will be on the public record….

In reply to David, I think you are underestimating the intelligence of the people and commentators.
There is no confusion of the 2 points, the majority of people are disgusted with this unfair tax and now they are also aghast to hear that the new threats from government abuse their constitutional powers to chase people for the tax.
If, as you say, the esb bills could be used to ‘catch wealthy people avoiding the 2nd property tax’ … Why hasn’t it been done before now????!!!????!?? Again, dont underestimate the intelligence of the people and also they do not forget the parties your made to win an election!!
Why isn’t The government turning constitutional stones to get the 1m back off fingleton or the 330k over the bankers cap that Richie Boucher!?!? One law for the elite !??! Hhmmmm

Any law that would give the government powers to take money off anyone is too great a power for the government to have. I think it’s worth having a discussion on it, but I doubt you can get legal wording which will go down the morally right route of taking money back from the banking chiefs, but that can’t be unfairly applied to other people.

We turned a constitutional stone to have a banking inquiry but it was rejected and it was for the reasons above, that it was a power too great for politicians to have.

@Too I don’t give a damn about elections so I’ll give you my answer straight up. We had an election last year during which everyone knew that if they voted for FG and/or Labour that the IMF and the EU would continue to have a fairly significant input into budgetary decisions. People voted knowing that so your argument about “unelected financial institutions” is nonsense.

Likewise people knew that FG/Lab would bring in a property tax!

Ah, so you DO take everyone for gullible gobshites. So the phrases ‘not another red cent to anglo’ and ‘labours way or frankfurts way’ were never mentioned? People voted for promises which were broken, and now they’re blaming the people who broke those promises, plain and simple. By the way, love how I mention ‘fine gael apologists’ and you go ‘oh, he must be talking about me, better post something….’ LOL!

Every dog has its day David. FG’s days are numbered, FF are finished. Thanks be to jaysus the civil war is over.

Said already that Ireland needed to be reminded for future reference just how bad FG were before the voters could take that walk on the wild side and vote for a socially conscience government. It’s Connolly and Larkin’s turn next…

David, you certainly do seem to be an unashamed govt. apologist. They more you post, the more I am convinced that you are a shill, sent forth to spin govt policy on this website with your daily parleys.

I comment because I disagree with you and no doubt vice versa.

Comment of the week Shanti

Shanti sorry to ruin your buzz a bit but, Fine Gael are leading in the polls and the odds are that FG will retain the most seats. Sorry just had to say that.

Karl. Shanti doesn’t do ego buzzes. The social conscience is changing, thanks to the Internet and sites like this too. People are waking up.

Karl, perhaps they are running high in the polls.. Polls are a poor thing to rely on, sample sizes are small and there’s no guarantee that they represent the wider society.
Day by day these guys keep finding more rope to hang themselves with, there will come a point where not even the most politically ignorant person or staunchest party supporter will be able to ignore it any longer. They used to be able to cover things up – now with the Internet their old tactics of controlling perception have gone out the window, the veil is lifting – watching them scramble around trying in desperation to claw back the curtain is where we are now..

Shanti, the fact remains they’re likely to get back into government. It doesn’t matter if we like it or not and this is a small mostly socialist website which isn’t the majority of our electorate. The internet doesn’t change anything in our situation, it only changes things in places like Libya, we aren’t in the position they once where. Once the deficit goes down people will all forget about these cutbacks and vote in Fine Gael again, that’s how our electorates mind works. However, if a euro skeptic conservative party where to creep up and this is not something I’d rule out just yet that is a huge problem for Fine Gael tho I doubt that happening Shanti so you’ll have to wait at least another 9 years most likely for Fine Gael to be presented with a problem that concretely threatens their governance of the Republic Of Ireland. Again tho, I wouldn’t rule it out, life is always full of surprises but I don’t see it happening, one of those wouldn’t say it will but wouldn’t rule it out things. So as things stands, FG will likely get in for a 2nd term.

If we are to wait the full term, then now is far too premature a time to speculate on the outcome of the next election :)
If they continue on in this fashion people might have to start thinking before they vote..

Shanti, a lot of people are all talk trust me, FG will get back in unless what I stated happens but as I’ve said, life is full of surprises and that euro skeptic conservative party could be formed.

Leaders are responsible not for running public opinion polls but for the consequences of their actions.
Henry A. Kissinger

Have a general election and see how accurate their polls are !

Susie, it’s not Enda that runs the public opinion polls. REDC, Behavior& Attitudes, etc do on behalf of the media.

@ Karl. I’ve heard this assertion before, that this website is a mostly Socialist one. This seems to imply, that there is some restriction placed upon potential commenters, based upon their political allegiances, before the Journal will let them comment. I see no evidence of that. The fact that a lot of commenters on this site display compassion, empathy and a social Conscience, along with a healthy disregard for psychopathic chancers, is only indicative of the fact that the majority of people in this country are descent, intelligent and considering the pressures we have withstood, remain remarkably sane!.

Well said Dhakina’s Sword. Although I do see where Karl is coming from, I personally did not want to vote any of the usual crowd into government in fact I did not want to vote at all because they are all a waste of space, but like us all I was stuck between a rock and a hard place, so I tried my best to keep the worst of them out. Sadly this did not happen :( What we need is a totally new lot of people to run for the government and we need to amend the constitution so they do what the people say otherwise they WILL be held accountable for their actions.

Maybe we should not allow parties into office at all maybe we should have it that we employ individuals and like the rest of us, we have to do the job that is set out for us by our bosses or we will get fired with no golden handshake or big pensions.

We should also teach the constitution in our schools so that the next generation and beyond would know their inherited rights and could not be deceived by anyone.

As civil rights are privileges that can be taken away by the government but our inherited rights cannot.

Dhakina’s Sword. I concur with your post except I would rather call them sociopaths in the main, although I might let the psychopathic term go for Phil Hogan. I think there’s another year’s play to go with these gangsters but I hope it will be hard lesson, one that we won’t forget in a hurry.

@ Karl Doyle
….but are they resposible for their actions ?

Susie not always and that’s not fair but how said life was? No one. If you don’t like the bottom work your way to the top. Dhakina’s Sword I said ‘mostly socialist’ which only implies that the majority of people commenting on this website are supporters of socialism not that The Journal censors otherwise I wouldn’t be able to comment from the perspective I have here. A lot of people i know that moan about FG often say they’re voting for them anyway at the next election, as I said a lot of people are all talk, they say they don’t want the cuts and don’t need them but they do need them so they’ll take them. We’re spending €20 Billion more than we should be per year even w/o the debt, it’s completely unsustainable. The Household charge wasn’t done under the best model but this is the first try, a lot of things don’t go smoothly first time round, it’s just part of life unfortunately. Furthermore you can’t say something isn’t sane just because they have different ideals than you. Breda changing the constitution in any way would do us great disfavors in the long run, believe me. Do you really want to alter the constitution which keeps you voting on amendments to it? You’ll have to make concessions to get concessions and it’s better just to keep at as it is than risk loosing it all together. However I agree with teaching it in schools, I do believe I suggested this before here:http://www.thejournal.ie/see-how-much-fianna-fail-fundraised-last-year-369458-Feb2012/#comment-285355 also your rights aren’t inalienable they are only inalienable if it doesn’t go against the common good.

@Karl: don’t you know we are ALL socialists now that we’ve nationalised our banks? Step 1 in the commie playbook.

@skeolawn we aren’t all socialists, FF choose to take on that burden and make it sovereign debt.

Hi, Reada. I take your point regarding sociopaths, versus psychopaths. I have avoided using the term sociopaths for a particular reason. Traditionally, the term sociopath referred to criminals, who had the ability to empathise with their families and criminal friends, but had no organic dysfunction within their brains. Because of the general populations perception of psychopaths as axe wielding maniacs, some psychologists decided to attempt to differentiate between violent psychopaths and the socially adept versions of them that are so more common. When modern psychologists refer to sociopaths, they are really referring to socially adept psychopaths. This in my opinion,just muddies the water. Regardless, socially adept psychopaths, have reached the upper echelons of politics, finance, religion and corporate power and routinely laugh at our attempts to control them.

D Sword
that is a terrifying assertion!

Terrifying, but true .

D Sword. At least it’s not technically a bad word so we won’t risk getting our comments deleted. Egomaniacs is too nice a word for them certainly. I’m giving them another year max and I see them disintegrating from within. GE13 Bring it on. :)

Karl. I’m not letting that sentence go. “If you don’t like the bottom work your way to the top.” How many ppl will fit at the top Karl? It’s the carrot and the stick. Keep working harder and someday if you step on enough ppl you might be as rich as me.

So riches for the few. Not buying that brand. That system has had it’s day and it has failed all communities.

It’s time to tear up the page and start again. It’s not that scary. Or have we got addicted to fear?

But It might be legally just as bad, when it comes to libel. I would tread carefully, just in case. Remember, it’s not illegal to be a psychopath, but it is illegal to call someone a psychopath, even if they are one. What is interesting to note, is that all over the net, are people talking about the existence of socially adept psychopaths, holding high power jobs within politics, finance and any other positions of status and influence. A global spring spring is coming, I hope!.

Ok so D. I better take that back before Phil hogan sets Shatter on me. He’s neither a sociopath or a psychopath. He’s only acting like one. Phew!

Réada, I’m not rich but I would love to be one day so will work as hard as I can to get there. The riches for the few brand is what keeps hospitals open and makes the medication which kills off your headaches, you don’t moan when the brand is helping you but you moan about it when they ask for something back. As I said Réada, you have to make concessions to get concessions, you can’t just take something out of a shop without paying just because you didn’t want to, it’s illegal and immoral. There won’t be a GE13, there will be a GE16 which FG will win and I’ll likely be voting for them unless a euro skeptic conservative runs in my area, the main thing I care about is having conservatives in there, our PS is too big and our budget spent €20 Billion too much last year which is intolerably excessive and the effects on the private sector are crushing, if we want more tax returns government has to get out of the bloody way sadly FF never realized this during their tenure however looking at the cuts on the public sector Fine Gael seemed to have copped on to this quite quickly which is very impressive.
A global spring means instability, higher prices on oil which means higher prices on everything, all other energy prices go up, nothing is put into economies and consumer confidence goes right down, everything falls apart and we end up with a much bigger deficit, a global spring would be disastrous for every country but even more so for the countries in desperate circumstances such as ourselves.

I disagree with you there, I am afraid to say. First of all it will only take a couple of crisies like the non payment of the household charge, and a no vote to the fiscal treaty to bring this government down on it’s knees. We can do something about it, like protest, the people elected this government, and they can take them down too. Wait till you see, they won’t last the year!

Maybe. Yes the NO vote will be a big way in which we can protest against this government and make it clear thats why we voted no, as a protest. The household charge will be a difficult one, there are a lot of desperate people who dont want extra debt on there hands and the government knows this, that is why they are making threats.

But it is all scare tactics and it is up to us to reassure the frightened people to beleve that the government CANNOT prosecute all of us. This is like economic terrorism . Terrorists threaten us and control us by fear .

I totally agree with you Sasha, we are their bosses and we can fire them, we must never let them forget that. I said from the start i will not be bullied into paying this disgraceful tax. I am delighted to see all the great informative remarks that are being written here, it shows we are the fighting Irish and not the thick Paddies these bullies seem to be trying to take us for. PEOPLE POWER and the people say shape up or ship out.

“when small steps are taken by large numbers of people, momentous things can happen” Vandana Shiva.

I am not paying it we have paid enough and enough is enough we have no more to give Phil hogan Enda Kenny Eamon Killmore Michael Noonan howling and the rest can just take it out of My Cold Dead hands as Eileens said yea sent no information out to me just talks on the radio and on the papers which I do not buy I do not have computer skills I do not know where or how to even pay it if I wanted to which I do not want to as far as I am concerned it is RENT TO THE GOVERNMENT ON MY AND I MEAN MY HOME THAT I BOUGHT AND PAID FOR IT DID NIT COME EASY BUT WE BOUGHT OUR HOME FOR OUR RETIREMENT SO WE WOULD HAVE NO RENTS TO WORRY ABOUT SO MR PHIL HOGAN I AM NOT PAYING

Ha ha Michael Mac
Good point.
A relative of mine only communicates through Braille.
He knows nothing about household charges.
I certainly won’t tell him.
That’s the governments responsibility.
R I G H T ??!!

Nor will I pay it.

This is so fucking wrong on so many levels.

*******I mean they actually want to change the law to suit themselves !!!!**

Can people just read that a few times.

Democracy my Irish arse!
FG/LAB OUT!

And to totally rub it in our faces. as a minister Phil Hogan is EXEMPT from paying the charge himself.

Do you have more info on that Too Trueleft.

Apologies for the delay Reada, please read the following: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/01/26/00111.asp

142. Deputy Finian McGrath Information on Finian McGrath Zoom on Finian McGrath asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government Information on Philip Hogan Zoom on Philip Hogan if houses in the rental accommodation scheme are exempt from the household charge; if a landlord who has a few of these houses and is making a lot of money is also exempt. [4518/12]

Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Phil Hogan): Information on Philip Hogan Zoom on Philip Hogan The Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 provides for a number of exemptions and waivers from payment of the household charge. The exemptions from payment of the household charge are—

Residential properties that are part of the trading stock of a business and have not been sold or been the source of any income since construction,

Residential property owned by a Minister of the Government, a housing authority or the Health Service Executive

Too Trueleft (love the name), thanks for getting back. I’ll have a look at that. ;)

Hi Too Trueleft, You are right about people in a republic are equal in the eyes of the law, but unfortunately contrary to popular belief Ireland is Not a republic, that is just the description of Ireland, we are actually a democratic state.

Article 4 says The name of the state is Eire, or, in the english language, Ireland.

Article 5 says Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state.

do you think that it is stange that this printing company did go into recievership maybe its that the people who did receive these leaflets posted them back to hogan and he seen that theire was no point sending out more as he would be showered under with them.this govt keeps contradicting themselves first they say that it will be added on to your house then they say that you will be chased down and taken to court and a find they cant make up theire minds. so what if they add it on to your house come next elecion we will only vote for whoever will abolish this shite of taxes that this govt takes in. dont let these f…..ers stay in for any longer voteing NO in this treaty and the collapse of the househole charge this govt will have to go and with him all the other gobshits with him

Would we just put the same type of representatives back in again though i.e Fianna Fail again!?!? Our complete political and electoral system needs reform and us as an electorate need even greater reform away from a century of failed politics and administrations! We have been brutally poor at ruling ourselves..we as a people must bring about a change and a true republic!

I agree we should be allowed to vote on a no confidence on this government and boot them out and boot them out as traitors for trying to sell us off

It’s the esb meter reading company he’s talking about. They are a different company to the esb company that provides electricity. You can move your account to any provider but the esb meter company still reads your meter. You can’t move from them. Though as we’ll soon not have money for esb perhaps we’ll be moving from the meter reading company after all.

Spot on. I do not think for one minute that Collins would have wanted any of this .

That doesn’t sound like good legal advice to be honest, Martin. Every household in the state is liable for the charge, unless you’re living in social housing, a ghost estate, a house owned by the government or the HSE, on mortgage interest supplement, or have had to leave your home due to illness. That argument is unlikely to hold up, especially since the government has said that it has been making people aware of it through an information campaign.

What if there Is a fine imposed by late payment, just like a speeding fine? Will this attach to your property and must be paid before your house can be disposed of? I’ve heard that that’s how it will be enforced. If so, there will be no one in court, there will be no single event that might galvanise a mass protest..it’s just something that’ll be sitting there like a time bomb waiting for you to sell your house, or inherit one.

I do not believe they can attach your earnings or your property without a court appearance . They have to idetify you as the owner of the property before they can do that.

Thumb’s on Christine’s comment shows the loony nature of opinion on this site. Yes disagree with the household charge, but if you can’t even accept that it IS a law like any other then there’s something very wrong with you lot.

Dear Christine Bohan
Please consider the circumstance where an individual genuinely has been oblivious to the household charge.
I am sure there are many.
I am sure there are many who simply don’t understand this new tax.
Martin Mac has a very justifiable point.
Everything considered.
I still find it preposterous that an individual has to register (set themselves up) for a tax which has detrimental consequences in the future.
This amounts to concealed blackmail of a fiscal nature.

I get where you’re coming on this one Stray Mutt but there are two separate points here.

1. People can choose not to pay if they want. It’s a legitimate form of protest and it’s been very successful so far judging by the number of people who haven’t paid.

2. However the idea that people don’t have to pay because the government hasn’t notified them or because there’s a legal loophole is inaccurate. It’s the law. Every household is expected to pay it (unless you’re in a ghost estate or social housing or some of the other categories I mentioned in the last comment).

So basically: it’s fair enough if you want to protest and not pay it – but you’re mistaken if you think there’s a loophole which means you don’t have to pay.

I know I’m going to get red-thumbed for this comment (it hurts, guys. It hurts), but I’m worried about some of the comments here. I don’t want our readers to get the idea that they don’t have to pay and then face penalties. It’s fair enough if people have chosen not to pay as a form of protest, but there’s a lot of misinformation out there telling people they don’t have to pay it at all.

@ Christine. I take your responsible and legal stance, as necessary and genuine. Your devils advocate approach is understood. However, I can’t see any judge fining, or jailing a person for the non payment of a bill that they have not physically received. The governments position is that they have informed the citizens of Ireland,that they owe a particular tax, and have informed us through various media that we have to pay. This form of communication is based on chance and has no legal basis in law. It is akin to McDonalds advertising a special offer on various media and then an individual is brought to court,on the basis of not availing of that offer. My McDonalds analogy would be thrown out of court and rightly so. This so called property tax needs to be seen for what it is and should be shown the same amount of contempt.

Thanks Dhakina’s Sword, appreciate that.

The problem is that right now we don’t know how strictly the penalties will be enforced. The household charge and the way it has been communicated has absolutely got a basis in law and I’m concerned at the amount of misinformation that’s out there. Basically I don’t want people reading internet comments and thinking that it will be fine for them not to pay it because of a legal loophole – and then getting a shock when they end up with having to pay a financial penalty or other punitive measure.

Hi Bingo Bus, I agree with you, that is why we need to step up this campaign and make sure this tax is abolished completely now. It will take time but it will be stopped by the power of the people.

I agree with you Christine legally I don’t see martin’s solicitors advice as sound but I was amused and pleasantly surprised to see you got 50 dislikes and only 20 likes.

I’ve always been fascinated at how a commentator fares when taken on by one of ye. Even when they are right the mob smack them for taking on the establishment (that’s you, Christine ;) ).

I’m sure you don’t mind being a test-case. Fine Gael better watch themselves. If the Journal moderators are feeling our annoyance I can’t wait to see what FG will get. Love you Christine. :D

Also, people in spartacus have huge baths, but always sit in them up to their waists….just like ireland.

I seen that form and filled it in the way i thought its in my gallery basically it says fcuk you all over it lol…
No household charge is the answer full stop…

……Your pets name ? ……………………………….
I have not seen the registration form . There is no need for me to look at it . Not Registering , not paying.
If they expect it through my electric bill , I will sit in the dark, If they go to my phone bill I will disconnect . I am not paying this charge Do you hear me Phil . NO means NO.

They’ll give out free Alcohol and cheese to keep us quiet!

Well said William.

Hitler, Mussolini & Franco were very proud of the forerunners of Minister Hogans Party, something which has been written out of its history by the present incumbents. In the 1930’s Germany could boast of its Brown Shirts, Italy of its Black Shirts and Ireland of its Blue Shirts led by a discredited officer of the Gardai who bullied and intimidated any opposition and who sent a detatchment to fight on Francos side to overthrow a democraticly elected government because the landed gentry and the church did not agree to Spain being goverened by the ordinary people of that country and we know what the concequences of that conflict were. Minister Hogans party are no strangers to bullyboy tactics. Why do you think Enda feels so much at home in Germany.

Hi Todo, you can do exactly that, the Campaign Against Household & Water Taxes has a 5euro membership that all can avail off, what this money is used for is for funding the campaign and for legal support if necessary, we need as many members as we can get to win our fight against this unjust tax and bully government. You can get a membership from the campaign office at,

nohouseholdtax.org

or phone 1890 98 98 00

They will be able to put you in touch with someone in your area.

Violent revolution

What did you hope for Gavin?

I had hoped for them to stick to their principles. To protect the vulnerable, students that they pledged to and single parents to name just a few. They should be ashamed to call themselves centre-left. They are just as right wing as their coalition partners.

People need to stay strong and not cave in to the threats. This charge will not succeed with 4/5ths of homes not paying.

#WeWantAGeneralElection and next time please vote for someone who doesn’t see you as a consumer or a statistic but as a human being.

Ireland is a country of people – a large collective family. Not a corporation.

Réada and how does family magically make the grass greener? Oh wait “the grass is always greener on the other side” Sorry all countries are markets which are effectively corporations and it’s getting the money in the kitty that matters.

Unfortunately Reada the Country of Ireland is a corporation, We the ordinary people know it as a country of human beings, but as a country we are registered as a corporation. :(

The Garda, Army, Courts, Health service, Country etc are all corporation. You can check this out on http://www.dnb.com

Breda. This Ireland Inc thing has been doing the rounds for a while now. I warned my twitters today that if I saw that phrase used they were for the chop. ;)

As you said Ireland is made up of people. It is one collective family. And whether immigrant or native we are all siblings imo. Our politicians forget this and we need to remind them.

I know! exactly what I thought when this whole bank bail out thing happened

No problem. I will be telling everyone at our local meeting this Thursday! Just so people again know- GOVERNMENT MINISTERS AND SENIOR HSE OFFICIALS ARE EXEMPT FROM PAYING THE HOUSEHOLD TAX!!! Now if you surely needed any further reason to refuse to pay!!??….

Ah, trying to change the subject so the unwashed masses reading this will turn their focus to people with investment properties instead of your fine gael mentors. You learn that tactic at a Merkel Youth meeting?

Well I’m curious to gauge whether people have a principled opposition to the use of utility bills to find who hasn’t paid any charge, or whether they’re just against the Household Charge and are against this because it’ll be used for that purpose.

And my point above played on people’s class consciousness against “the rich” so I don’t know what made you believe I picked it up from a centre-right “Merkel Youth” meeting :)

Can any one tell me why Ministers are exempt from paying the household charge ?

Are they?

David David , why didn’t they do that previously then? People can see through ALL the spin now my friend! They had a hope of change based on promises pre-election but this government again refuses to be up front with the people and neglects the ordinary majority people in favour of protecting the elite and powerful

It was mentioned in this thread above ….
I do not honestly know . That is why I am asking . Does any one know ?

Hi Susie, please read the following: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/01/26/00111.asp

142. Deputy Finian McGrath Information on Finian McGrath Zoom on Finian McGrath asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government Information on Philip Hogan Zoom on Philip Hogan if houses in the rental accommodation scheme are exempt from the household charge; if a landlord who has a few of these houses and is making a lot of money is also exempt. [4518/12]

Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Phil Hogan): Information on Philip Hogan Zoom on Philip Hogan The Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 provides for a number of exemptions and waivers from payment of the household charge. The exemptions from payment of the household charge are—

Residential properties that are part of the trading stock of a business and have not been sold or been the source of any income since construction,

Residential property owned by a Minister of the Government, a housing authority or the Health Service Executive

Too Truefelt
Thanks for that .
They can ask my A** for it now . In all the meetings I have been at and all the discussions I have been involved with , today is the first time I have heard that Ministers of Gov are exempt ……
I am sickened by it . No one should pay this or register for it .

You are a fool.i use to think like you, c’mon Ireland, lets work through this, lets pay our dues. Whatever I loaned from a bank is and has been paid-except my mortgage which will eventually be paid as im still working. Our politicians, whom we elected/voted for, for change.to get rid of the browne envelope culture, to hold people responsible for the mess we are in. all we have got is saddled with debt from others and in this case, a threat of amending the law to take our data,so they can take our money from our accounts. All this why other people took risks with money and they are getting their money back… For fuck sake, wake up!! There is something bigger happening then 100quid