Tax evader, illegal , bigot

Bigot?

I actually don’t believe the government figures and the fact they claim one sixth have paid up . Propaganda if you ask me . I remember at the start they threw out a press release that x amount had paid but speaking to a person in the collection agency at the time , the figure was exaggerated !

To be correct it is the Fourth reich that run Ireland, what the Germans could’nt do by genocide and mass war they are doing by economics..

So basically what we are is Vichy France.

You should be ashamed of that comment Robbie. That also goes for anyone who gave it a thumbs up.

Too far Robbie, I don’t have much time for the policies they are foisting on us but that’s distasteful in the extreme

Welldone Robbie, it is the people whose ancestors who were responsible for the massacre of six million jews, men women and children, the most evil killing of the last millenium that are running our finances now, and it really makes my blood boil. Even the head of the catholic church is a nazi. I say who can we trust now? Ourselves?

Are houses for sale exempt? The Department’s been quite clear before that whoever owns a property on January 1, 2011 has to pay up (unless it’s one of your other examples).

I have been told they are yesterday, Gavin am open to correction if i’m wrong as for the others i know that i’m correct.

Forgot to mention homes vacant due to the owner in hospital due to long term illness not sure if it applies to nursing homes.

She was a “wan” all right. Her reasoning behind not introducing a higher rate of tax for high earners was sickening. “We need rich people so they can employ the plebs”, or something along those lines…

Fine Gael’s distain for the low-earners is evident, their Budget proved that, and Labour have proved again that they cannot contain them. :(

Yep. Her whole argument about taxing high erners more was laughable. Something about “In the current climate we don’t want to beiscouraging people from employment by raising income tax”, as if asking people who earn over €100,000 to pay the same effective rate of tax as the average worker is going to make them quit their jobs and survive on the dole. It’s the same argument made by the republicans stateside i.e. theres no such thing as wealthy americans, only ‘job creators’(tm), and we can’t upset the job creators, can we? (even though 10 years of tax cuts to these job creators did not increase employment)

Is this the same Reada Quinn that had their comment read out by a certain Mr. Brown last night?

The very one. Nearly died laughing. I do love Vinny though, even more so now. Lmao ;)

forgive me if i’m wrong but somebody earning over 100k and paying 40% is paying a fuck of a lot more tax than someone on 30k paying 20%….or i’m missing something.

The higher paid are paying their way it is the lower paid and obviously the unpaid who ar not….

Hi Tom 31st march is the annual fine gael conference, there,s mass march being planned and a mass picket being planned on the fine gael conference, hope to see you there.

@Gavin the whole point of a progressive tax regime is you pay what you can afford, the poor can afford to pay no more the rich can afford to pay alot more

@ Joseph and they already do….

nice one reada gettin yer comment read out on vinny!
that aul bag a shite from FG last nite was some piece a work.
u’d swear she was gearin up to go door to door
tryin to collect the money herself.

Fucking paper tigers, and them sittin pretty…

100e to cover the banks or 100e spent providing for me kids?
FG/LAB, ya know the 5 lamps? go hang yer bollix off them.

If you look at income tax in isolation then perhaps but that not really a true picture, the differing rates are to take into account the disproportionate effect regressive taxes have on lower paid workers and from that angle I think the rich could pay more and that’s without even getting into ideas of a social contract

Can’t believe that houses owned my a Minister of the Government are exempt from the charge!! That’s disgraceful. How dare they tell us we have to pay it but they don’t!!!

I am not fu€ing paying and that’s it. Fu€ kinny and Co. bring on the #ref12 and the next general election. Lying, cheating morons can kiss my Irish arse before I’ll pay for any fu€ing more money. I DON’T HAVE ANY EXTRA TO GIVE.! Or would you like my kids to starve w@nksters the lot of them.

@ Rommel,

Haven’t paid, not paying….. Fine Gael/Labour …. do your best. Why the hell would I sign to pay a tax like this when, I find out two months ago that the the value of my home has lost EUR185,000. Unfortunately, my morg. is still the same! Not sure how long more I can keep up the payments, but I’ll cross that river full of sharks when the time comes. Sing for it Minister Noonan!

This year the government is spending at least 13bn more on PS pay, SW and capital spending than it takes in taxes. This is all paid out of borrowing. Nothing to do with banks or existing debts. That´s the deficit in current spending.

If new taxes are not an option (and btw, the lowest paid in Denmark and Sweden pay income taxes while in Ireland they do not) then you´ve got to explain what cuts you are going to make, or how you can keep suppporting that 13bn+ borrowing year after year.

You´ll get lots of thumbs up on here for shouting No cuts! No new taxes! But we can´t keep borrowing at this rate for much longer.

Oh Neil, you’ve fallen into the trap of using logic on this board. For weeks I have posed a question asking someone to:

1) Suggest ways to increas revenue without a tax increase
2) Explain what happen’s after we “burn the bondholders”

Despite numerous attacks on my character, not a single person has made an attempt at either point leading me to believe that they probably don’t have one.

I have received plenty of thumbs down though!

Follow a Keynsian approach use the money that is being wasted on bond holders to reinvest in capital expenditure projects employing people, taking them off welfare increasing tax revenues getting them spending in shops and leaving us with a much needed infrastructure improvement

@ Neil how much do you think we could save by cutting pay , expenses travel allownace cleaning allownace to ministers, TDs. And i disagree it has everything to do with banks . they cut public spending to pay the bondholders. in essence robbing peter to pay paul. And we are the peters.

@ Cliff. Heres one suggestion. Use money from the NPRF or the 3.1 billion we’re about to destroy needlessly to construct the spirit of ireland projects renewable energy station. The figures that I’ve read is that It would cost about 1.5 Billion but would bring in 4 billion euro per year if we exported the energy produced to Europe. It’s construction would also take thousands of construction workers off the dole, saving countless millions in welfare payments, and creating thousands more jobs thanks to so many extra people having disposable income.

Thats just one idea from one person.

@ Too – I agree completely, follows the Keynsian big spend plan followed by the US which is starting to see real results

The only way it will be financed though, is by the government getting their slice from the big asset sale we’re due to have cos they seem loath to touch the pension reserve (and not paying the 3.1 isn’t an option for this one)

That leaves us with a problem- in order to follow Joseph’s Keynsian plan, we’d have to go all “Chicago School” on our state assets.

@Cliff. Top academics, economists and even the one member of Fine Gael who has a grasp of economics are on the record as stating that the 3.1 billion does not have to be paid. It is being paid at the behest of the ECB because they don’t want an extra .005% of euro currency floating around as it would devalue the currency by a similiarly tiny amount. THAT is what our most vulnerable are being put through the grinder for the next ten years. So, I’ll take the words of the experts over the proven liars in government who spoofed their way to power on the understanding that there would be no more money paid to anglo.

@ Too- who are these academics? Genuinely interested to know.

@ Cliff. Karl Whelan of UCD, Brian Lucey of Trinity College Dublin and Stephen Kinsella of the University of Limerick have called for deferral of payments, as has Peter Matthews TD of Fine Gael. Theres a number of econosts also calling for deferral or non-payment. Now, you were claiming people repeatedly could not give you suggestions about how to generate income, I gave you one. You then claimed the suggestion could not be funded, I have demonstrated how it could. You then asked for academics backing up my assertion that the 3.1 billion did not have to be paid on 31st march. I have done that also. If you need anything else, Google is your friend. I have stuff to take care of…………

I think you might find that there is a slight difference between top academics who are “record as stating that the 3.1 billion does not have to be paid” and Karl Whelan calling for a deferral of the payments.

OH WAIT!! I notice that you put “on the 31st of March” in your second post to cover the obvious mistake.

Nice try Too.

Wow. I love the way you copy and pasted a part of my post and misrepresented it. perhaps instead of meandering through all of the oldest tricks in the books you would lie to explain why the experts I have mentioned are wrong. Please take your time. And please don’t make the mistake of thinking you are dealing with some muppet who, if you leave your rely long enough, won’t respond. I’ll be on this thread embarrassing you for as long as forums exist or one of us expires……

Here is your quote in full:

“@Cliff. Top academics, economists and even the one member of Fine Gael who has a grasp of economics are on the record as stating that the 3.1 billion does not have to be paid”

This is incorrect- the academics you are referring to have called for a deferral or the payment.

Please point out the part i was misrepresenting. Not paying something is not the same as deferring it, that was the point i was making. If it was a typo on your part then that’s fair enough, if not i would appreciate your clarification.

In the meantime i’ll be here, quaking in my boots over your intellectual superiority.

As was already mentioned.
This is a precursor to property tax and this tax will be a four figure sum when implemented.
Possibly a 1% levy on the value of your property. PER ANNUM.
That is 3000 Euro on a property valued at 300,000 Euro.
Let’s face it. The sooner you begin to object to the household charge the better because once you have registered you are trapped.
Don’t start grousing when you are confronted with a massive property tax bill.
It’s too late then.

Austerity IS working….for some. Recent rich list figure show the assets of Ireland’s wealthiest have appreciated quite a bit in the past year… from €57 billion to €62 billion. Let’s all be thankful – they’ll not be long putting that extra €5 billion to work creating jobs…. any moment now… wait for it…

The figure of 251k is more than likely correct but i would say at least a quarter if not a half of those figures are households that are exempt from the charge.So news reports equating 251k to 25 million for the government are in plain english pure bull****.

Well put John! You should proudly shout “Can pay, won’t pay!!!” at your TV when the government make more cutbacks to hospitals, schools and the Gardai at the next budget.

@What are you talking about Cliff didn’t big Phil tell us this money is for the councils,parks,paths,streetlighting etc.He never said it was for what you mentioned.So who is lying big Phil or y…..

For your own information, this is the exact data I got from the Department of the Environment this morning. It seems to make a perfect 100% correlation between registration and payment.

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2012/03/20120316householdcharge.png

Cliff! What are you going to shout at your telly while they going that and burning €3.1bn of your country’s money. They won’t burn the bondholders but they’re willing to burn €3.1bn of Ireland’s money. You’d want to get real Cliff and get off your moral high horse before FG sell this country from under you. Wake up man!!!

So failure to pay this tax will have no effect on the governments ability allocate funds? Makes sense.

@ Reada- I am not politically affiliated in any way, but you can lay the blamefor those notes at the door of FF and not FG. Do you think i like the idea of paying bondholders who, by rights, should have been left with nothing?!?! They would have sold those notes for 20c on the $ up until the bank guarantee.

That being said- what is your proposal for when the country burns the bondholders and cannot borry money from Europe or the bond market?

Gavan Reilly, if the Department of the Environment says it so, then it must be. They wouldn’t lie, right. And their boss would be? Big Phil Hogan, maybe? You honestly think any one of them would cross Big Phil?
Cliff, I pay my way in this country and always have. This however is a tax too far. I could reluctantly pay it, but have chosen not to as a protest.

@Cliff maybe we should not default disorderly but look at how Greece got a BIG discount on their debt, and that’s actual government debt (that is, they spend more than the get in taxes) and not bank debts that have been placed on the head of Irish taxpayers.

If our government cared they would be a wee bit more aggressive in renegotiating the debt.

Well Kevin, the people who are paying are the realists who understand that the country is in a spot of bother and that, for the cost of a couple of a pint a week, we can try and ensure that we keep the lights on.

Cliff go back to LALA land will your Pro Government Bullshit, as your talking out of your backside.

Keep the lights on me arse.

@again Cliff we have been told all this money is for the councils by Phil Hogan so what are you trying to imply?

Realists Cliff? Do you really believe any of the money collected from this tax will be used “to keep the lights on”? I also find it hard to believe that someone who considers themselves a realist would have a fake twitter account following cast members of Geordie Shore.

Ye can get 2 pints for 2 Euros? Where do you drink Cliff?

You’re right Michael, the charge is pretty reasonable now that i think about it. Less than the cost of a pint!

It’s €100 in 1 go not in small installments Cliff and it’s not the amount now thats the issue it’s the principle of a household charge that doesn’t go to your local authority to provide services, the principle of rejecting regressive tax and the the knowledge that €100 is just the starting point!!

@ Joseph – there is a payment plan that allows for 4 installments of €25 per quarter. That means you can put away 30c per day and be able to afford it. That’s about as affordable as something can be without it actually being free.

And yes, I know it will go up in the future-but you should be happy about that- it becomes more progressive over time!

How does it simply going up make it more progressive? Will it be based upon ability to pay? I doubt it!!

Hear Hear!!! Let the real people be heard!

Fact ;-)

Just to clarify, thats not a comment I make lightly, but after hearing that FG td on the telly last night basically explaining “you vill pay or your children vill suffer the conzequencez fur ze dizobedienz” I said to myself, right, thats the last straw (or should I say , reich, thats the last straw)

It’s a grey area Jim, a bit like this government’s imagination. Hold off paying for the moment. If this coercive threat to your livelihood is true it further shows what a nasty lot this government is.

@ Jim, would not paying your motor tax or tv licence result in not getting a tax clearance certificate? I would presume it would have no effect, but to be sure you might want to check it out with the citizens advice bureau.

you might want to consider incorporating to separate your business and private behaviour! :)

You don’t volunteer the TV fee you get an invoice from An Post.As for this charge no invoice no bill so imo no payment.

No problem. Maybe things have changed, but I don’t remember being invoiced by An Post until the year after first paying the TV licence fee. Seems the household charge will work the same way. Will they send round multi-lingual inspectors to detect our residential status?

Understand what you mean.I was invoiced after buyig a TV.So i suppose i registered for the TV licence.

Michael, we produce legislation in english as that is the language it would be debated in and all oireachtas can see exactly what they are voting for or against as it is not manditory for members to be fluent in Irish. provisioned for in the constitution
Article 8
1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
2. The English language is recognised as a second official language.
3. Provision may, however, be made by law for the exclusive use of either of the said languages for any one or more official purposes, either throughout the State or in any part thereof.

Also it is legitimate that they require you register – self assessed or self employed people pay their income tax by declaring their income and job. No one registers for them with revenue you do it yourself. Also on the TV licence an post do not invoice, they demand you register, if you are caught without a licence an post demand you register within a certain period or take you to court.

I’m in an authority under justice and I sure as hell won’t be and I’m not alone

Me too, cause Im one of them.

Isn’t there another saying? Something about ‘a fool and their money….’?

You guys are true revolutionaries, aren’t you?

Me too , cos i am not paying either .

1′m sure nothing will happen, government will just eventually ignore the non payers, and shaft the ones who have signed up, they will never arrest 1 6th of the countries householders

Sometimes Mac, u gotta be prepared to commit yourself to a cause and do the right thing. If too many Irish People chicken out and pay, the we are finished as a Nation and we will be the workslaves of the Elites.

@Gavin.
One thing i agree with you on is we do need more stable taxes in this country. But not by dipping into our pockets everytime ths goverment want to bail out the bondholders/bankers, you wont see one thing for your money.
Will you be happy to pay up to €1400 by 2014. If these web sites are correct thats what we will be paying.

Another Lemming following the others off a cliff.

Fighting Irish me hole, lay down and enjoy the kicking, come back when your paying thousands of euros for zero.

Yes zero, you are just a cash cow to the current dictatorship.

@Tom how do you know it’s going t be €1,400 euro by 2014…that’s just scaremongering

@Robbie absolutely no interest in being “fighting irish”

…are ye going to stop paying other taxes you don’t like???

Good for you @Gavin sure arent you a great fella!!
Now you can become one of the “complacent” Irish instead!

@ Gavin , I read it on the nohouseholdcharge.org. That why i say if it true. And against it
It’s true that in response to criticisms of the flat nature of the household tax, the government have announced their intention to bring forward the introduction of the full property tax – probably to 2013. But this tax will be neither ‘fair’ nor ‘progressive’.

The average house can expect to pay about €800 per year – plus another €500 in water taxes from 2014. The 2009 Commission on Taxation suggested that houses valued between €150,000 and €300,000 should be levied with a property tax of €563. John Fitzgerald of the Economic and Social Research Institute (the government’s semi-official economic think-tank) has said that the new taxes should be as high as €1300 per annum on the average household. There’s not much ‘fair’ about that when we’ve already been hit with pay cuts, job losses, Universal Social Charge, VAT increases etc.

@tom if it is not a household charge that is steady and predictable it will be an income tax increase that will damage employment or a VAT increase that will benefit the black economy or higher stamp duty killing property sales etc.

There is merit in having a tax that is easily collectable, steady and that doesn’t harm jobs.

Most of the objectors to household tax are not thinking things through.

I wouldnt mind paying it if we weren’t duped into buying over priced houses during the boom and are now left with huge mortgages with negative equity and increasing mortgage interest rates !!! Thats why Im not pying it, plus I dont see us getting any services for it. If they want it they can take it out of my shrinking pay packet at the end of the week and call it what it is “an anglo levy”!!

Ok Gavin Why is this tax only aimed at people who are trying to buy a house or someone who have bought their home. why is it ,if i am renting , getting social welfare supplemnet or living in a house on a council estate not paying it.
Its unfair and unjust and like i said before it it stayed at €100 then i would pay it, wouldnt like it, but it wont stay at 100 and you are only fooling yourself it you think it wont go higher.

@ tom you will find the landlord has to pay the household tax if the property is rented…althought it will be passed on. I do agree that persons in employment living in a council house should be paying the tax. But as with a lot of taxes and charges there are exemptions for those that cannot pay.

As regards the fairness of taxes why do only businesses pay rates, why do higher earners pay more tax why do businesses not pay VAT etc etc etc….it’s all about a balancing act…sometimes they get it wrong and sometimes the get it right but I don’t think the household charge is intrinsically wrong but the well paid shit stirrers in opposition are having great time objecting for short term electoral gain which all the nay sayers just can’t see through…

@ Tom- the charge is the Government’s way of reintroducing rates. It has to be done and, in the long term, we might actually see benefit from it (other than paying off debts that is)

Yes, the charge will inevitably go up- but it will happen over time and people will adjust to it.

In relation to it being unfair- you cite renters an those on social welfare, but the government has to find money from somewhere- better it be from employed homeowners than people trying to survive on a few quid a week.

… and even though the renter won;t pay, the landlord certainly will.

Gavin Think we have to agree to disagree.
I dont agree with this tax on top of all other ones. where and when does it stop. you simply cant tax your way out of a recession it doesnt allow freedom to spend and grow ,when you dont have the money the ecomony is staggent
and will remand so as long as there is no confidence to spend. Even if people have it.

@Tom ok well lets just cut public sector pay and social welfare by 30% and then the country won’t have any need to raise extra revenue at all….simples…

now you said it Gavin! :) Oh and force a near-technical default on the bank debt like Greece did, we don’t need to be the good boy in the class if we’re not getting anything in return

Phil de man Hogan himself said it . That they are bringung in a property tax by 2013/14

Cliff
what about the unemployed home owners ?
or those on a pension?or any one of a dozen what abouts?????????????

Gavin to me it looks like you bent over to the government and said ” yes master you can do anything you want to me” best of luck paying a pointless tax scam to benefit non irish bond holders

@ Susie- in every situation there will be outliers, you can’t cater to everyone perfectly. If you reduce every issue to extremely small samples then you would get nothing done. No matter how the tax will be applied, some people will be harder hit than others.

An other fool and there money parted HERE!