agreed

the labour party bag men back at work

why are they not opposing this charge? the spin that it represents a kind of welath tax (which a lot of us would agree with if it WAS a wealth tax/rates) is ridiculous

We are all told in the leaflet it’s for above..parks etc…
Why can the government tell us the truth???

That was exactly what was said in Clare Co. Council

That’s the ticket.
Stick to your principles.
Don’t pay.
After all: they are dependent on us.
Not vise versa.

Hump said not many complaints, such a liar, the whole bloody country is complaining, you are signing a contract, it’s the only way they can catch you. I will never sign any contract with this government.

I agree do not pay this !!! Did you ever hear such bullshit There is a willingness to pay this !!! That idiot is delusional and so detached from real society ” people do not have the spare cash to pay this ridiculous made up bail out the banks tax !! F off I am not !!

And it is not a case if not being able or unable to pay it is a FACT we are not paying get over it and accept the non payment as our decision we the IRISH people are making a statement in the non-Action WE ARE NOT PAYING ANY HOUSEHOLD CHARGE

Well i paid amd was proud to do so. Tell you what will bug me though Reada is if whingers like you get away without paying.

Ah Declan. That’s a bit mean. Tell you what, when this is beaten I’ll be first to campaign that you get a refund. Whinge about that why doncha. ;)

Bollix! Married pensioners get about 2 grand a month on the state pension. Given that that most of them have no morgage and some of their bills subsidised they are pretty well of comapred to many working families. Now single penioners area a different matter and allownaces will have to made for low income pensioners but to say that all OAPs should be exempt from a household/property/council tax when it intoduced next year is rubbish.

It is unjust unfair morally wrong and disgraceful after all the income tax vat on products vat on petrol diesel and all that one buys through life vat here there and everything and on income of coarse and the one thing which as a house holder struggled and worried to make mortgage repayments so that myself and my husband after the family would have flown the nest have a little security for our old age pay for our own home and have no rent in our old age but now that we are not far from the old age we are told we have to pay this house hold charge (RENT) to the government cos they mismanaged the books and allowed others (Bankers,Bondholders, Developers,Brown evenlopes to politicians Etc Etc etc ) so NO I AM NOT PAYING ANOTHER RED CENT NO HOUSEHOLD CHARGE

I think that only applies to certain contracts such as loan agreements, but I’m open to correction.

I am selling them. €25.99 each not including vat or postage.

Will sell you three for a fiver. Mine growing northern bank notes

You are assuming that those living in Leinster house have some connection to reality to most living in Ireland?

Sometimes the expensive reports tell them what to do.

Like the Bank guarantee.

But like that, they do tend to mutate it into something far more disgustingly obscene and unnecessary.

Agree Barry but what should you worry about red thumbs you have put view across and some maybe most do read and appreciate other folks opinions so keep posting Barry

This money goes straight out of the country. It doesn’t benefit our community.

Incorrect. It is paid to local authorities, who are obviously based in this country.

Start by seizing every asset belonging Johnny Ronan and all the other NAMA scumbags and putting it towards the public purse. Cut all public sector pay over 100 grand by 50%. Cut all bank employee pay over 100 grand by 75%. Stop subsidising private schools and private pensions. Tell unsecured bond holders to take a jump. String Bertie up from the tallest lamp-post in Drumcondra and let people throw rotten fruit at him.
Then and only then go to middle and low income families and ask them to pay €100 euro a year for the privilege of living in their own home.

Spot on Tom well put.

Lies its not going towards local authories.

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/household-charge-bringing-no-benefit-2974413.html

I love nothing more than red-thumbing your comments.

That red thumbing comment is @ ryan allen BTW.

Ryan. You say it’s going straight to local authorities. I ask you where have local authorities received funding up till now? Thin air?

They’re shipping it out to pay bondholders. What’s to stop them funding hospitals and making up a hospital charge?

This is a Troika Tax pure and simple and we’re saying NO.

@ Paul Jacob: Don’t be so rude as to suggest I’m a liar. It cuts the amount of funding central government has to pay out to local authorities, thus making a dent in the €16bn mentioned above.

@ Tom: Thanks for making some suggestions. There would be some savings there, but I very much doubt it’d add up to €16bn.

@ B: I’d better keep commenting then. Clearly clicking a button is easier for you than engaging in a debate.

@ Réada: Local authorities have traditionally been funded largely by grants from central government. Rates have been the other main source of funding.

It’s a sinn fein/ULA thing ryan. Let someone else pay, same as the print cartridges. Tax the rich, bla, bla, bla. Plant a big money tree forest, Tax the workers and reward the slackers is their way. I bet every one of them cheered on all the ridiculous tax cuts, giveaways and overheating of the economy during the last decade.

@ Ryan. Paid to the local authorities, if that’s the case they can f**k off. My local authority already got 5000 off me for development levies when I built 3 years ago. This was for so called services and amenities. I live on a bog road with grass in the middle and potholes like craters. ( none of my money spent there). There is no street lighting, incidentally that’s the way i like it but that was also listed as one of the services my 5 grand was providing. ( none of my money spent here either). I provide my own sewerage disposal in the form of a septic tank, this was also listed as one of the services I was getting. Which now they also want to charge me for that as well. I haven’t seen one iota of benefit for my 5 grand other than being given permission to build a house which would have been declined otherwise. So u see I think people are delusional if they think this money is going to go to local authorities and benefit people. U won’t see jack shit for ur money. It will go straight out the door to pay off the bailout. Rant over

1) burn the unsecured bondholders
2) increase top rate of tax to 60% for incomes over 100k
3) equitable property tax (value\income)
4) democratic local Govt

There u go answer to your question

Ryan. These “grants” you think have funded local authorities… I’m going to let you into a little secret. The government didn’t magic these grants. They were our taxes. Our money.

If we give into this mafia style reallocation of our money to pay unsecured bondholders what’s to stop them inventing a new tax, for example a hospital tax. They have to be stopped Ryan and it seems the mood of the nation is ripe to take them on.

@ Brian: Your frustration for having paid so much already is obvious. But the once off nature of that payment highlights the unsustainable tax system that FF created, which was focused on windfall taxes rather than annual, reoccurring ones. That is why when the property market collapsed in 2008, so did revenues. An annual property tax doesn’t correct what happened to you, but instead is a step towards a properly balanced taxation system where the same sudden drop in tax revenues won’t happen again in the future.

@ Stephen: Burning the bondholders is a separate issue from the €16bn gap between spending and tax revenue. That is long term debt as opposed to day to day spending. Tax rate of 60% is one suggestion, however like I say above it wouldn’t be enough to plug a €16bn gap. Also people deciding to move to avoid it would mean that it might have to be a 60% tax on incomes over 90k in year 2 and 80k in year 3 etc. The household charge is due to become more equitable in the next couple of years. Ideally this would have been the way from the start. And the introduction of a changed local government system would be an expense rather than a saving/revenue generator.

@ Réada: Yes these funds were our taxes, but the tax system wasn’t sustainable. It was based on once off taxes as opposed to annual payments. You advocate a third tax rate on the wealthy – surely that would also be “mafia style reallocation of our money to pay unsecured bondholders”?

@ Ryan unless I’ve missed something the taxes I pay are a yearly event. If they want to introduce a property tax they can as long as they reduce the tax I already have to pay every year which goes to funding local authorities in part. If they don’t do that it’s yet another double taxation. I pay car tax it seems to fund bigger pot holes. I pay tax already to provide lighting in my local area, funny that no street lights in my area. Pay for my own bin costs, pay for my own septic tank etc,. No way will I pay this property tax which is designed to allow the government to funnel away the taxes I already pay to pay off bad bank debts.

The gov cut spending to councils to pay bond holders so they are asking us to fill the gap. Are u delusional to think this is for benefit of local services.

No Ryan. A higher tax band for the wealthy isn’t mafia style. It’s called paying your fair share. Fair play. An admirable concept IMO.

@ Kerry: You may pay income tax and other taxes annually, but in terms of the tax you would have paid when you bought your home – stamp duty – that is a once off payment. Which means that government (local or national) have an incentive to approve applications in the short term in order to generate revenue. An annual charge is far more sustainable. The big decline from 2007 onwards was because the tax base was unsustainable and a large part of it was funded by once off taxes as opposed to annually reoccurring ones.

@ David: As I’ve said several times already, there’s an annual difference of €16bn between the amount government takes in and the amount it spends. Tax increases are one way of rectifying this. I can’t understand why people struggle to understand that even if there were no bondholders at all, there would still be cutbacks and tax increases because of the €16bn difference.

@ Réada: So the tax YOU agree with isn’t mafia style. Lovely. And what about when this tax is made progressive in 2014? Will that meet your socialist requirements? I find it ironic that in so many other countries this is the kind of tax socialists would be introducing, but in Ireland its the one they protest most against. ULA and others want the government to pay for everything, yet don’t agree with the taxes necessary to go along with it. And please don’t make out that a third rate of tax = €16bn extra government income.

@Ray wow i wasn’t going to pay but after that thought out reasoned argument i think i might.

BTW that was sarcasm but considering your comment i felt i should explain it to you.

I’m not a scabby bastard so do I get an exemption

@Ray i’ll be polite unlike you i have never been on the dole plus i own my own home.Now if you insist on being an asshole don’t be surprised if you are treated like one.

You’re a gas man Ray. Hope they do refunds. LOL

It’s €100 this year, it WILL go up next year.
It’s probably ONLY €100 to you but it’s a hell of a lot to people who are already struggling to make ends meet.

@Norman Jesus wept, well pay the €100 so. Let’s get this country moving

@Eamonn Don’t worry about me Eamonn. I don’t have to pay it all, I wasn’t stupid enough to buy an overpriced house in the boom

Like i said on the other thread Ray your a Troll so no more interacting with a sad git.

Yeah ray and your probably one of those f*ucks that works a cushy state job or for one of the banks that ruined the country. Do us all a favour and log off!

@jimmy common misconception, state workers are some of the hardest working people in this country oh and it’s you’re

@ray. Im not worried about you really. I didn’t buy in the boom either and I won’t be paying but it’s not only people who bought in the boom that find it tough at the moment. People have seen cuts to their income, rising household bills, vat increases, fuel costs increases etc etc so €100 is a lot to them.

Keep dreaming

Nope they have your details now.