Yea I agree cash can be used anywhere for anything.
Vouchers are limited to use the person still knows how much you spent and who really wants a poxy voucher

Im into games and blurays so I always ask for vouchers. Ive been getting them since I was a lil boy.i prefered them to money as money could then be spent on things I didn’t want. Only recently I had 210 euro on hmv gift card and spent it on a wii u one week ago.. lucky…are the gardai really gonna stop someone in store if they just hand the voucher in and take the stuff. (Serious question by the way)

If they do their job they will Philip.

You’re basically advocating looting.

I don’t think your looting or stealing…. Your leaving your voucher behind in exchange for goods…

They should even give customers half the value it will be of benefit to them if they come out if administration.

Doesn’t work like that. Even if they have a pricetag on the CD/DVD or whatever whenever you go to a counter to pay for something you are simply making an offer, the store then chooses to either accept or reject that offer. In this case HMV have chosen to reject vouchers as a form of payment, so if you simply leave it there and walk out with goods it means you are taking them against their will.

It’s a shambles that vouchers don’t have tighter laws, but the law at the moment is that you would be stealing. Keep in mind how threatening this behaviour would be if you were a staff member too.

Likewise they have deemed your voucher worthless against your will and against the law… I’d be taking my goods.

It’s not against the law in reality though so go on ahead but don’t come back moaning if you get arrested for it

It would be a civil matter, rather than a criminal one. Basically you are willing to pay for the goods with a voucher valued at say €50 …
If HMV refuse to accept the voucher,there is nothing the Gaurds can do and would have to leave as no criminal offence is being committed..

The problem with the vouchers is the they represent a contract between the person who bought them and shop. The buyer is giving the €50 money and getting in return this voucher with which a person can buy €50 worth of goods. The reason that the shop can decide not to honor the vouchers with such impunity is that once then voucher is in the hands of the person who received them as a gift, that person has no contract with the shop and so can’t force them to honor the voucher.

While on the other hand @Niall Noonan, HMV is effectively stealing from those who are in possession of vouchers by not honoring the voucher system. I’m no advocate of doing something that is against the law but this case is different. Go up to the counter with your CD, hand the person behind the till the voucher, give them your name and address and tell them if they want to go further with a civil case then they know where to find you. The gards will only come if they are called to keep the peace.

In reality at least in my reality it is against the law. Shops do not have to accept theses vouchers and actually do not have to accept cash from anyone they don’t want to sell to.

Just noticed an error in my previous comment. If you leave the shop with merchandise without HMV accepting your payment (which they obviously wont as they have been instructed to do so) then it is no longer a civil issue. It turns into a criminal issue which you can be arrested for. I believe there is already a gentleman in custody according to the thread over on boards.ie

What this calls for is stronger legislation around the idea of gift voucher contracts. Like many people here I am unaware of what protection there is in relation to this area and whether or not HMV is legally allowed to refuse to accept vouchers as a form of payment.

I may be wrong but, it is classified as a contractual dispute, and is a civil matter. The Gaurds may take your details for a pending civil action, but they will not get involved as it is not a criminal matter.
I do believe that there are certain terms and conditions relating to the redemption of vouchers with HMV, but they cannot change those terms after the date of purchase…( which I would assume doesn’t cover “administration/examinership!)

they can’t exist because they have no good will left after failing vouchers, and choosing to close when the were told to homour them.

Yes, the NCA is a joke – a three-legged and toothless horse. It should be put down, and some of the vast savings could then be devoted to an emergency fund to help consumers who are victims in these types of cases.

The stores are closed. The stock probably belongs to suppliers. If the company has no assets then you just join the queue with the rest of the unsecured creditors.

Buying vouchers is and always will be a mugs game because there is absolutely no protection against default. The NCA are being both ineffectual and naive if they think their call for these vouchers to be honoured is going to be listened to or is even legal. If the company has gone bust it does not matter whether or not it is in recievership or examinership, it would be unlawful for the directors or managers to prefer one set of creditors (voucher holders) over another.

The NCA would be better advising people on ways of getting their money such as credit card recalls.

There’s a story in one of the papers about a grandfather in Limerick who gave his grandchild a €40 your voucher for Christmas. He went into HMV and removed goods to the value of the voucher. They did not stop him. It’s a farce that they can sell you a voucher and then refuse to honor it.

Technically yes, if the security stops you. Don’t forget at all the security tags that would be a hassle if you were to do this.

Yes it is shop lifting but if u wear a ski mask or do something to cover up the staff won’t stop you but security will as there not employed by hmv

If their prices were not so expensive maybe people wouldnt revert to buying on-line or illegally downloading it

When was the last time you were in there because it is not expensive, it hasn’t been for the last 4-5 years now

Before Christmas, €25 for a Blue-Ray dvd, same one on-line for €12

I’m not against buying online, it’s convenient and can be a lot cheaper. However it is nice to have the physical item and I enjoy exploring the sleeves, inserts and lyrics whilst enjoying the music. Album art can be amazing too, I remember trying to reproduce some of them as a teen.

I also feel patrons who have been loyal to the store and kept it open as long as it is should be that last to suffer. In my mind it’s a form of theft.

Why in the name of god does anyone buy bluray there is feck all difference if u have a DVD player with good surround sound and a quality hdmi cable, but besides that ya the bluray is expensive but CDs and DVDs have been as cheap as amazon for the last few years in fact if your buying the 1 item it’s generally cheaper to do so in hmv, don’t get me wrong I buy a lot from amazon.co.uk but I always check the prices in hmv first as I would rather buy it in my local store if possible

Actually staff members are preferred creditors do they will receive what they are owed ahead of unsecured creditors such as those holding those vouchers.

Sorry its not a credit note its gift card and once date is valid then there is no excuse if their door is open to do business. HMV shouldnt be allow to trade if they refuse to honour vouchers

You can be firm without being nasty or rude to staff.

Plus if you did get stopped by security call the police and charge the shop for false detention and demand goods are kept for evidence by garda. So when its resolved you’ll have your goods.

If the store had stopped trading I could understand their point of view but not while their tills are open to take money.

Sorry, just read bottom of article, hmv Ireland not in examinership, they are obliged by law to redeem gift vouchers, if they will not they are stealing from you.
Ask to speak to manager, get name, tell him-her that they are breaking the law and that if they do not redeem voucher they are personally liable and you will sue them in small claims court. ( cost 25 and is added to their costs).
Call Gardai and tell them “reverse shopping ” is going on and you want them to arrest culprits.
That should get your gift voucher redeemed.
Anybody got the balls to follow through on this?
Get somebody from media to accompany you, great story and you get your 10 minutes ad fame!

Read reverse “shoplifting” for shopping, feckin I phone!

I heard hmv limerick had to close yesterday as people were picking up items and just leaving gift cards on the till on the way out.

I heard that too but I don’t think it’s true I was on boards.ie and one of the staff said it did not happen

Remember its not the staff’s or managers fault. Why should they care that you can’t spend your ?20 when they might be out of a job by next week

Because that’s their job. They are in the customer service role.

On the flip side of the coin, they don’t deserve to be abused for a decision they did not make. The same applies to when you have a complaint with a company and you decide to shout at the first person you speak to on the phone.

Stephen, not their fault but if management ask them to break the law by not honouring a legal agreement (gift voucher) then call the police.
They have to honour gift vouchers.
If my boss comes and asks me to break the law I am not going to do it, tell the bosses to come to tills and refuse vouchers, then they are breaking the law and can be reported to police. Not fair to order front line staff to break the law while they hide upstairs.

What’s with the red thumbs???
Please explain what part of standing up for your rights is wrong?
Jazus, some people!

Paul Mc,

Unfortunately it’s not breaking the law. A gift card is effectively a credit note and the second HMV goes into administration you become a creditor. That means you have to join at the back of the queue as you would be an unsecured creditor.

I work in retail and I can only imagine how bad the staff have it in there now with customers “knowing their rights” or worse again taking advice of the fool joe Duffy.

Yeah just attack the manager that is only doing what he’s told to by the company. The gift cards won’t go through the tills. They’ve been turned off so even if they wanted to they have no way of physically putting it through. But hey let’s sue the manager of the shop in small claims court even though he’s waiting around to find out if they can pay their bills in the next week or not. Read your damn rights for when a company goes into administration, get off the Internet and shut up.

They’re not in administration.

Won’t work

If I still worked in retail and was told I might not have a job next week I’d point and laugh in the face of anybody who told me they were ringing the police or they were going to sue me. I do pity those who have vouchers but complain to the group that took over, bot the HMV staff

Billie, Irish operation is separate company and is not in administration.
They are legally obliged to redeem vouchers.
If front line staff say no ask for manager, if no manager call police, this is theft.
Seems like Irish people love to just lie down and be ridden by anybody bigger than them.
Stand up for your rights, don’t know why I bother posting, never met so many people unwilling to fight for their rights.
Idiots.

Manda Moo – duh!
I think you have a touch of the Homer Simpsons

Don’t call people idiots just because you don’t know what the rules are.

Even if they were accepting gift cards I’m pretty sure they’d still legally be able to refuse your custom.

Invitation to treat and all that. If they don’t want to accept your cash/voucher in exchange for the goods, what can you realistically do?

This isn’t the time to stand up. Save the business, save the jobs and then get your money back. Choose your battles.

That’s right red thumbs, roll over and take it up the proverbial.
You have no idea how to stand up for your rights.

Paul you’re a typical Irishman. You realise an elderly couple died this week of hypothermia in their own homes? That cuts to charities mean lots may have to shut down? That Corrib are destroying our coastline? That cuts to carers’ allowances are driving thousands to despair and possible death? That our forests are about to be sold off to a foreign company with Bertie on the board?

Yet some HMV Vouchers are what you mark as the test of the nation, mostly because it hits you in the pocket. Like I say, typical Irish.

Niall – wha?

1. Elderly couple died of cold, yes, this is tragic.
2. Cuts to charities – what the hell has this to do with gift vouchers?
3. Corrib gasline – wtf?
4. Carers allowance – - huh?
5. Cutting forests – where the hell is this going???
6. Bertie , at last. Some common ground.
7. Hmv – the test of a nation, nope, lost me again.
8. My pocket, no again, don’t buy in hmv or have a gift voucher.

Try throwing in comments on cornflakes or the price of smoked kippers, would be more in keeping with the theme.

XXX. Paul.

Manda moo, you are assistant manager in hmv, if they ask you to break the law you do not have to comply.
I did not say attack the manager, i said force managers to comply with laws of the land.
If you refuse to redeem legally held credit notes or vouchers of company not in administration you are guilty of breaking the law.
Pretty basic stuff really, best of luck on your job hunt.

Can you name the law that states they have to accept gift vouchers.

Paul, I would love to see you call the police in store. Id also love to see/hear them tell you to go f/*k yourself and stop wasting their time

Hi Barry. Just to clarify, we did not advise anyone that their vouchers were worthless or that they should bin them. The person you most likely saw on the news yesterday was from the Consumers Association of Ireland, who has no connection to the NCA. In all our communications yesterday we advised consumers to hold onto their vouchers while we investigated the implications of the UK administration for Irish consumers.

Our latest statement is available on our website http://www.nca.ie/index.jsp?p=100&n=101&a=970

Apologies NCA, I stand corrected, thanks for clarifying.

Its a pretty concerning thing for anyone that’s supposed to represent consumers to say yesterday before all the facts had been verified,

say you feel like a spa now!

Please tell us more about your intricate knowledge of contract law

Stop been so silly,, at what point did I say I have such a knowledge of contract law,, I was merely throwing a question/comment out there like what most comments are about, but I suppose there always is that sarcastic off the point stupid response by someone

Short answer is that they’re in breach of nothing

Neither is someone who pays for goods with voucher. Just buy something that exceeds the value of voucher top up with cash then walk out with item.
A voucher is cash and not your problem how they handle it internally. if the name over door matches name on voucher then its a done deal.

When you say ‘know’ do you mean he got a memo from head office saying we’re shutting down after Christmas? Or did he ‘know’ in the same way that we all knew that high street stores were in trouble and that HMV was on the verge of going bust (was in the news last Autumn)?

Because I have a few friends working with HMV and they all found out their jobs could be gone over places like Facebook, RTE and the Journal, so stop making out like the staff are part of this.

The staff can’t have not known that this was up.

It happens. When the company I previously worked for went into receivership the staff who were in work didn’t know until the receivers walked in, told the customers to leave and the managers to pull the shutters. The managers were told not to contact staff at home to tell them what happened,and those of us who weren’t in work found out from the news.

I’m capable of doing two things at once. Just because people are losing their jobs doesn’t mean that the consumers who got ripped off should just take the hit.

I agree with not taking it out on the front line though. It’s not their fault and they are in an awful position. They deserve empathy.

Did any of the other companies that did this choose the same timing as HMV? They knew they couldn’t honor those gift cards when selling vouchers over Christmas. That is fraud.

A few of them did, yes. H&H for example went in the February.

Sligo is closed too.

Limerick gone too. Bravo the mob.

HMV Henry st (Dublin) is closed as well.
There’s a homeless guy hunkering at the shutters looking for money. He has a sign that says “Sorry, I don’t accept HMV Gift Vouchers.” :-)

Henry I would never insult any one in a store. I understand they have a job to do and I feel sorry for them. The point is that the store will win all round they have the money and they have the goods. It’s not that I want the cash back just the value of the voucher. How would you deal with them if they leave you 100 euro or more short in your wages?

I would be fairly p***ed off to be honisit. But it is just plain disrespectful the way that staff are treated by some people. I went on to HMV facebook last night and there was a few people on it giving out about the staff and saying to go into the store and basically shout abuse at them. I find that highly disrespectful the staff are only doing there jobs and only doing what they are told.

The irish hmv is not in administration. They were told by the NCA that bye law they have to accept the vouchers and because they were acquired by law they then shut shop.. ireland hmv is different to any other hmv. By rrfusing the vouchers they are breaking the law.

HMV in Ireland is a part of the UK branch and therefore are in administration. I think the problem is that the group didn’t assign Deloitte in Ireland to administer the Irish Stores and only went to the UK group seeing HMV as the stores in the UK and Ireland as one. The fact that they are shut means the administrators went in and told them to shut the doors. If they did that, regardless of what the NCA are saying, they are in administration.

That could only happen in Ireland.. Sad as it’s part of going in to the shop, have a good look around, I always came out with more than I planned to, but shopping online you won’t be able to have a laugh with Billy or Maggie, this is the world we have now sleep walked into.. Billy has access to a computer but Maggie does not.. Can you imagine ten years down the line, no one shopping in the high St because there won’t be one…

Is if worth taking that chance for €40?

The administrators might take you to court. Their business is taking in as much money as they can.

Taking the items will guarantee the staff will lose their jobs. It’s not a good situation.

If they prosecuted you the judge would convict you as they actually follow the law and not their emotions.

By law, when you bring a good to a counter and offer payment for it, even in cash, the seller has the right to turn you down. If you walk out of the store with the good and just leave the money on the counter that is stealing, as no agreement of purchase took place. If that was brought before the judge you would be convicted of shoplifting, no judge in the country would simply let you go as it would set a precedent in law that would mean anyone could just walk into any store and take what they want so long as they left whatever they felt was a suitable amount of money on the counter.

I don’t agree its a guarantee people would loose their jobs if you took and offered to pay by voucher Billie.
I’m 100% sure I would take goods to the value of a voucher, even if it was for a fiver.
We are getting screwed left right and centre in this country. Do you not think its about time we made a stand and stood up for ourselves.
It’s despicable they took the money in the first place knowing they were not going to honour them. And I’m convinced that is the case.

Thanks for your opinion Niall and I see your point.
But judges do use their discretion at times. And if it was me, I would still take the goods to the value of the voucher.
But right or wrong, that’s only my opinion.

I agree that it’s despicable that they took money knowing they wouldn’t honour the vouchers.

Here is why I believe it guarantees the jobs will be lost if you take it into your own hands.

3 shops (at least) have had to close for shop lifting. That means no new money is coming in.

HMV don’t own all of their stock. They only pay for what they sell in most cases. That means if you take the stock yourself, HMV can’t get the money back for that product as it can’t be returned.

In order for those jobs to be saved, they need to bring money in. If these stores are closed or getting fleeced then they won’t be bringing in money.

They did take in the money.
When people bought the vouchers.

Don’t get me wrong Dwicked, I’m not sticking up for HMV.

My point is that by honouring the vouchers now will cost them more money than if they don’t as they don’t own most of their stock. They can simply send it back. They need money coming in to keep the jobs. Taking the products ourselves will only close the shops and cut off any money coming in.

It’s not fair on the consumer, but the staff might not even get paid if the stores are closed.

This grandad did exactly thatIndependent.ie: Grandad walks out of HMV with computer games after staff refuse to accept gift voucher

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/grandad-walks-out-of-hmv-with-computer-games-after-staff-refuse-to-accept-gift-voucher-3354747.html

that’s not the answer.

Do you work for The Sun with that random CAPITALISATION?

Lol. Do you work for the Sun.

Daniel, either you work for the sun or the daily mail, go on….do tell…which one? :)