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Dublin: 11 °C Saturday 18 May, 2013

Burton questions ‘loyalty to the State’ of tax exiles

Speaking a the MacGill summer school, Joan Burton says taxes are high enough – but there are too many loopholes to avoid them.

Image: Niall Carson/PA Wire

SOCIAL PROTECTION minister Joan Burton has questioned the ability of tax exiles to have loyalty to the Irish State – while also arguing that too many tax loopholes exist to allow the wealthiest in society to avoid their contributions.

In a speech to the MacGill summer school in Co Donegal this evening, Burton argued that the State needed to be vigilant and ensure that its tax code was just, and seen to be just, so that it could command the confidence of the people.

She argued that the 12.5 per cent corporate tax rate, for example, was widely accepted because it was seen to bring benefits to the public through the creation of employment by foreign firms choosing to base themselves in Ireland.

But other aspects of the system, she said, could not command similar public support – because of the “many shelters that enable very many wealth people to escape paying the share of their income that is needed”.

Said the minister:

Personally, I cannot reconcile the lax rules on residence that facilitate tax exiles with any notion of loyalty to the State.

Burton said she believed Ireland’s current income tax rates were appropriate – and that the income tax on high earners, plus their Universal Social Charge contributions, constituted a high enough burden on top earners.

This was offset, she argued, “by far too many opportunities for some groups and individuals to escape the level of contribution that can reasonably be expected from those in their position.”

Pointing to US billionaire Warren Buffett – and his calls for an increase in income tax in his own country – Burton argued that other countries expected a far higher level of tax compliance than Ireland.

“The extent to which we pay our taxes is a measure of our loyalty to our state, and the extent to which the state returns our commitment with quality services is the measure of the state’s loyalty to its citizens,” Burton said.

The minister later questioned the role of political language in fostering public cynicism in politics, using the words “inappropriate” and “disappointed” as examples of the muted language which did not reflect public anger at certain matters.

Read: Kenny promises new political corruption laws, with up to 10-year jail terms

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Comments (38 Comments)

  • Should we question the loyalty of politicians who pay themselves far in excess of European counterparts when our country can’t afford it.

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  • “The extent to which we pay our taxes is a measure of our loyalty to our state, and the extent to which the state returns our commitment with quality services is the measure of the state’s loyalty to its citizens,” Burton said.

    In that case , I seriously doubt the State’s loyalty to its citizens.

    The current government is doing nowhere near enough to curtail unemployment.

    Look at a scheme such as JobBridge which is in effect replacing paid jobs with interns who receive 50 euro per week on top of their social welfare allowance.

    When you even have politicians praising the scheme because it is ”extremely beneficial for businesses that may not be able to employ someone on a full time wage”* then you know something is seriously wrong with the system.

    *(source: http://corkpolitics.ie/wp/?p=10058 )

    Reply
  • Hey Joan give up one of your pensions as a show of loyalty!!!

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  • In other news, DublinLad also questions politicians loyalty to the people who they constantly let down and deceive!

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    • let down yes, deceive no, I genuinely think this particular government are doing there very best to get this country back on track. I’m a neutral when it comes to politics and have no allegiance to any party, but I think we all need to admit that they are doing a far better job than any other government that has gone before them

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    • I don’t deny that, my deceive remark wasn’t aimed at just FG/Labour but at previous Governments.

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    • But they did deceive, they promised no more payments to unsecured bond holders.

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    • censored 24/07/12 #

      I don’t. I think they are out for all they can get, just like the other lot.

      Loyalty is a two way street. US citizens can vote when they’re living abroad, and access many services. No surprise that they’re also expected to file an annual tax return. By contrast the Irish State is always seeking more ways to exploit its citizens, whether at home or abroad.

      Reply
  • iBob101 23/07/12 #

    If she doesn’t like the current tax laws on residence, why doesn’t she change them?

    Instead she moans on as if she was still in opposition. And if she refuses to change the tax laws, what right has she to denounce those who obey them?

    Reply
  • I just ate a big red candle!!!!

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    • Now Joan.

      You wouldn’t be talking about Denis would you?

      The guy who advises the Government at the Farmleigh ”Think ins”

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    • I heard Joan on Newstalk last week talking about the chronic unemployed… Those people who never have, wanted or plan to work. Not those decent, solid and usually hardworking people who are looking for employment but those who take benefits as a lifestyle choice.

      She spoke about how they would be ‘encouraged’ and ‘persuaded’ through various programmes and schemes to ‘attempt’ to gain meaningful employment.

      Not once did she mention sanctions or penalties or, God forbid, withdrawing payments.

      Why is it that Joan never questions the loyalty to the state of those people who abuse it’s generosity?

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  • Like excessive pensions Joan?

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  • Investing unconsumed income and savings is an act of loyalty as well as paying taxes being such.

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    • Well the wingers are starting to howl and denigrate. It is entities like the rich that have become the rage in avoiding all taxes. If tax exiles do not pay taxes, then they have nothing to worry about if they get a hefty tax increase with the closure of these loopholes. And ending all corporate income taxes will help the national debt too – That’s more of the same Blueshirt logic.

      Reply
    • Apple have €70bn dollars in the bank, capitalists are not investing, that’s part of the reason we’re in this crisis. Tax these people to the hilt!

      Reply
    • Winston 23/07/12 #

      The Mark and Martin Show…

      That’d be some Craic!

      It’d probably give Fr. Ted a run for it’s money!

      (money that would be taxed at 85%)

      Reply
  • And why do the middle class and poor pay? Because they’re an easy target. Non mobile, lacking the finances to take advantage of those “loopholes”.

    Reply
  • See it for what it is people, loyalty to the state comes before loyalty to the people. She is telling it to us straight to our faces people. The state is supreme and it is that which you must serve. May as well unfurl the red flag and refer to each other as comrades .

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  • The rich don’t pay enough taxes.

    Tax policy can destroy the middle class, and the middle class (consumer spending) is the backbone of our economy.

    Corporations used to pay income taxes, then their owners paid income taxes on the profits passed to them. It was called double taxation. with LLCs, MLPs and the like, the corporation pays no income tax. That income tax revenue source, whether you like taxes or not, has disappeared. Government revenues have been reduced and FG-LAB complain about the debt.

    And whose shoulders do you think Labor have lined up to lay the new taxes? Look at their plan: Cut taxes on the rich and on corporations. Who is left to pay the bills? Yep, the middle class and the working poor.

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  • What a croc of SHITE! Words Words Words! Blah Blah Blah! Wait until the budget bomb hits us! Then remember all Labours pre election promises and compare them to post election reality…. And we can laugh out loud at how completely and repeatedly gullible that we are as a country!

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  • loopholes can be closed off and if Joan and her Labour colleagues in Government were prepared to deliver on their election promises then the loopholes would be closed.

    more hot air from the champagne solialists

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  • Gerard 23/07/12 #

    Moan burton strikes again.

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  • I know from personal experience with charities with which I have worked that some of these tax exiles are extremely generous and their money is spent more efficiently and more justly than it would be if the politicians had their way. For example, note how Mayo is suddenly getting buckets of Lottery money. I wonder why?

    Reply
  • censored 24/07/12 #

    And who else was talking about patriotism and loyalty recently. Ah yes, Filthy Phil Hogan raving about his patriotic sheep. Burton, you have no clue about loyalty.

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  • Rob 23/07/12 #

    If Kenny has his way, then corporations will pay no taxes at all, nor will the rich. And that leaves only the middle class and the working poor to pay off all of our current and future debts. They are going to take the payroll taxes we pay and they are going to create a huge national property tax and apply it all to the big hole left after corporations and the rich leave the tax roles. The tax will remain and will be increased. That’s what Burton plus Bruton will do.

    Send every fine gaeler home in 2012. They have declared war on the middle class. Fire them all. Send them home and all of their staffs. Clean house before they destroy our country and our economy.

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  • Speaking of loyalty to the state, what about these traitors paying unsecured bondholders? Will they be brought to justice?

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  • She is right about one thing, the use of wording in the media fails to express the reality of peoples feelings on this subject. So I will attempt to correct that here.
    “Citizens are disappointed with current progress” – We are sick of all this bullshit, we want heads on sticks, we want Bertie to be tied to the Spire on O Connell St. and burned to death today, tomorrow the rest can follow! All corrupt, lying bastard T.D.’s should be shot on sight. All businessmen and bankers involved in the crisis should be dismembered and eaten by angry mobs. Anyone not with us is against us. Kill them all!!!!

    Reply
  • Loyalty, like respect, is earned. If my girlfriend spent the rent on shoes every month, I’d soon stop giving it to her. If I had the same descretion with taxes, maybe I’d stop paying that too…

    Reply

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