Protestants in NI today my Republican friend! Name one – just one – Protestant from NI who supports this United Ireland concept.

Just look at Assemblyman Billy Leonard, an Independent Republican in Stormont. People aren’t going to start naming members of SF or other org’s on a friggin website who just happen to be Protestant.

Where the work on the ground is making a difference is that it is SF members who are doing the political weight lifting in for many Loyalist and unionist areas. The DUP and the UUP were like FF and FG respectively, they took the bottom half for granted and there are no other groups that bother to actually help them. From Shinners friends and family they have growing members from Protestant areas.

The longest lasting tradition that the Protestant faith have made in Ireland is Armed Republicanism and that support is still there in many quarters. A small but dedicated minority.

I think you’re confusing Protestants with Anglicans. In the south, most of those we call Protestants are actually Anglicans, descended from the English. Anglicanism is only Protestant in the sense that it doesn’t answer to Rome but in practice it’s a Catholic faith. In the North however those we call Protestants are Presbyterians, descended from Scots. Presbyterianism
is a true Protestant religion and is very opposed to Catholicism.

I know more than a few…I’m even engaged to one.

*gasp* a mixed marriage! The horror, the horror.

They will change.

Care to elaborate on how exactly we were much better?
I cringe when Brits moan about the NHS have them check out our healthcare & see if they moan as loud.

As someone that has a chronic illness, and I’ve live under the NHS and the Irish public (not private) health care, you couldn’t be more wrong.

It’s very easy to criticise when you only hear of the negative stories.
My care here at home has been fantastic over the past 13 years.
My care in the UK for the 8-9 years before that was abysmal.

But why would you read a positive story in the press, you’ll only hear the negative ones.

Better interest rates, lower taxes, better pensions, better standard of living, happier people, much better opportunities, better wages, longer lifespan, all said I’m glad to be Irish .

ill offer a counter to that, when my niece was one week away from her 1st birthday, my brother brought her into hospital because she was listless and very ill, drogheda hospital sent her home 3 times, each time she got worse, 3 consecutive days he brought her back, eventually she was diagnosed with swine flu, was given a prescription or paracetemol and sent home, unfortunately she was prescribed an adult dose, after she was given the meds her liver collapsed, as there are NO Facilities in ireland to deal with this accident she had to be immediately air-lifted to kings hospital in london, she spent 4 weeks waiting for a replacement liver and was given an hour to live every hour, she was placed number 1 on the worldwide priority list for liver donation, eventually she did get it, the operation was ultimately successful with some complications, she is almost 3 now but will spend the rest of her life in and out of hospital, my brother frequently describes to me the awful amount of wasted hours attending ‘appointments’ where you show up on time but arent seen for several hours, persistent failures to correctly diagnose conditions, over-worked medical staff at the end of their tethers, he tells me the contrast between the service in the 2 countries couldnt be more extreme

Glad she got through it. Sounds abysmal!!

thank you, she also happens to be a genius, she is not yet three and has taught herself to read words up to 7 letters long, she can spell the words backwards too and read them upside down, she can also count backwards from 100, its incredible in such a young child

I’m glad she is well RP.
She sounds fun. She’ll running rings around her parents.
I hope they spoil her rotten after her ordeal.

cheers Danny, i hope you get well too

I’m only as well as I’ll ever be RP, but thanks for the thought.

Better education, cleaner environment , having the Craic, welcomed the world over, better food, were not perfect but if I had to choose which nation to belong to, it would be the Irish nation.

Better education than the north? Hardly ,there was a report only today saying how well the north was doing in this regard

20 years … More like 10.

Hong Kong was secured in 1898 on a 99 year lease as the UK government was concerned about an emerging Japanese naval threat at that time. It was always going back in 1997 albeit against the wishes of the vast majority on Hong Kong.

That is the big one. The Orange see Britain as part of their home so they see nothing in going to college in Liverpool or London, they get jobs and settle down there. Their parents also are more and more tending to retire in the sunny south east of England, a place they also see as part of their country.

As is the Unionist population is top heavy in the 70+ while the younger you go the higher the Nationalist populace is.

Belfast, Derry, Newry, Armagh city, Counties Fermanagh, Armagh, Tyrone, Derry and South Down are all Nationalist majority and in the next 10 years heading to absolutely massive majorities.

One also interesting thing in the North is that given the historical nature and still somewhat existent discrimination against Nationalists, many were forced to be self starters. Unionist voters are either pensioners or working in some way for the State. Business starters and self employed tend to be over weighted to Green side as a result of this.

You can debate about the economy here,there d all that but if your a 12 year old in the North and you see that over 65% of your age and under group are Nationalists with Republic of Ireland jerseys bar a few suburban areas and Antrim,and all your local politicians are either SF or SDLP then Unionism will be just a historical footnote for you.

That is why Unionism is so worried by the massive changes. Instead of Unionist politics being opposed in most of the North in a very short time it will not have a functioning political structure or support base. Unionist political parties are still very hostile places if your Catholic, no much you love the Union. Their own bigotry will ensure that they will always be a bridge too far for most Cats.

@ Srephen
Well said Stephen, I’d like to add that the brits know that their future relations on this island will be with Nationalism, not Unionism, expect Britain to love bomb Ireland over the next ten years.

What’s happening in Belfast right now is the death pangs of Unionism/loyalism. In truth loyalists don’t know who they are, they’ve always had conflict in one form of another, now that there is peace they have no idea what to do.

They’re are like people who have worked for a company for 40 years only for that company to tell them that they are not needed anymore. Sad really, but there future lies in their “mainland”. Their children who have went to college in England and haven’t come back know that. It’s only a matter of time before loyalists start moving en masse back to where they came from.

@AJ Finnin – I think it’s simpler than that. Britishness has ceased to exist in any meaningful form. It is something which now lives only in the heads of people wearing bowler hats. The vast majority of people on the “mainland” would dump NI on Thursday morning if they could. And they don’t even try to pretend otherwise any more. Oh, and the public sector which makes up more than 50% of the North’s economy? That could be eliminated at the stroke of a pen in Whitehall.

Meanwhile, the Republic has ceased to be a cold place full of papists and dancing at the crossroads. We might love to slag it off as often as possible, but it is nothing like the country which unionists despised 40 years ago.

If I were a northern Prod, I would be looking for terms. I reckon I would get a better deal in Dublin than London.

@emily
So true Emily, but shouldn’t we welcome our Unionist brethren with a glass of poitin and a dance at the crossroads, under the watchful eye of the Bishop?

That is a very interesting point by Emily. Britishness as an identity is dying in Britain, never mind in Ireland. In Britain most people see themselves as part of their national identity first. The only difference in non-whites who see themselves as British first. They having grown up with the media saying that little Englanders were whites only and that was true at the time.

How can you be British when very few in England consider themselves to be and they all call you Paddy.

The GFA is just a long game plan to disengage England from Ireland and there are none so eager to do that as London.

The reality of politics and economics is that London knows that all it takes to destroy London as a Finance centre is to have one lorry lead of explosives driven in to Canary Wharf once or twice. It would force the locking down of the city and make it toxic as business location. That is economic reality and London looks at its budget no’s and sees that the city is all that keeps their economy afloat and says screw the North they aren’t even British what ever they think.

I don’t know anyone in Englandwho doesn’t consider themselves British. Or Wales for that matter.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/oct/06/national-identity-disunited-kingdom-debate The British Identity crisis.

I really enjoyed this thread. Open discussion and no silly remarks about a ‘West Brit’ etc. it’s a shame most threads can’t be like that.

Well the RC section already seem to understand the benefits of the Regular Bang.

Comment of the day!

Its hard to believe people are still religious in this country in this day and age.

Religion has little to do with the conflict. It is just a way of dividing the camps.

The song is “A nation once Again” not “Transubstantiation Once Again”

I would love to know if any of them would subscribe to the gombeen state in existence in the so called republic.

He can see the facts on the ground. The union flag is no longer flying over Belfast because it is no longer the flag that the majority of Belfast feel comfortable seeing above them or feel any association with. That is the level of change that this census means and that is only the start.

If you do not have kids, or those kids leave for London then you cannot pass on your political beliefs. It roughly is that simple and no matter of broadening your electoral appeal can change that, it could if your populace have the money and a growing population to define the future but not when your running no’s like 30% of kids from your background.

Union jack is only flown on boats.

Eamonn, sorry but that’s a common mistake, the terms are interchangable.

If Stephen Fry says so, it’s fact :)

Stephen Fry’s researchers are wrong on this one.

And they acknowledge that they are wrong: http://old.qi.com/qi_quibble_blog/2009/01/flagging-up-a-mistake.html

Point taken,sorry.

No worries, Eamonn, Happy to Help.

Why both flags when only 25 % consider themselves Irish? Why don’t we fly the union flag/jack on Leinster house?

Not one bit.
Think a revival of the Home Rule League is needed :D

I think it’s more interesting that less than half of those in the north actually consider themselves British.

‘@ Culm Carty;
the unification of Ireland will involve the abolition of the wo secterian, partitionist states.
it certainly does not involve the extension of rule of he 6 Counties, from the 26 Counties.

We are Stephen if the god is mammon. It’s a long, long time if ever since there was anything dignified or noble or holy about this demonstration of mans capacity to be manipulated.

Green from me!

Are you a “West Brit” then?

Damocles, I don’t understand the term

Pierce, I think it means Martin McGuinness says you’re out to get him and then later retracts his comment.

@ Pierce2020 but a lot of readers of the Journal are from the north so these stories are not just for you .

Pierce 2012

West Brit, an abbreviation of West British, is a pejorative term for an Irish person, stereotypically living in an affluent part of South Dublin, who is perceived by his or her countrymen as being too anglophilic in matters of culture or politics.

@stephen
He didn’t criticise the story being on the journal at all.
He merely gave his opinion on Northern Ireland.

@ pearse2020
You mean freedom fighter ,

Michael, I’m pretty sure I mean terrorist

and the UVF/UFF wish that there were more like you. Thankfully there is not and the days of Tims being burnt out by the police are well over.

Pierce, “former”, “allegedly”.

Stephen could you explain how I am wrong?

Is that terrorist as in the same mould as Collins, de Valeria, etc or r u wearing rose tainted glasses for the war of independence ????

Who is this “de Valeria” guy, sounds like something you could get a cream for.

If only it was that easy

Wrong! Sad.

There will always be a parliament in Stormont but the two states will be joined in a federal form. I’ve no doubt about that and there are plenty of Loyalist leaders who are well aware of that as well.

Have u been watching the news recently? Although the 6 counties are a lot more peaceful these days the nationalist community has still a long way to go before their true national identity is recognized. And that will only be in a 32 county republic.

A United States of Ireland? Not a bad solution…

Its a terrible solution our political climate is bad enough without adding british mp’ s into the equation…

Eamon. You idea of adding British MP’s to our political mix is indeed terrible. That is why no one would even suggest it. Whatever their flag on the wall.

Andrew – I should point out, for the sake of clarity, that people were asked their religion ‘or the religion they were brought up in’. This probably accounts for the smaller-than-expected proportion of people who answered as having no religion – anyone raised with a faith that they no longer claim to have would not have answered ‘none’.

Its the same when applying for jobs and you have to fill out an equality form, some will state, you may no longer practice your faith but which one were you brought up in. Also I know of someone who put none on one of these forms and was brought in by the HR department to see if he had made a mistake ticking none because he went to a catholic school and they wanted him to state catholic on the form

Catholics traditionally did not declare their faith as the state was quick to mark them out as a result or the RUC might come knocking on the door at night with their Loyalist Para hat on rather than a police cap. It wasn’t safe to let the authorities in the North that you were a Taig.

As said above, Religion is only a way of marking out what you see your cultural heritage is.

That’s retarded, you honestly think companies HR department were sharing people’s equal opportunities forms with loyalists?

No some probably did. It has been shown though that the authorities and security forces in the North worked very closely with Loyalists in passing them information, providing finance and support.

That’s moronic. No ones equal opportunity form was ever shared with loyalists, if you have an example of someone’s equal opportunity form being shared with loyalists please share

fact my ass, you’re bullshitting

No – refer to the Northern Ireland Life and Times survey on this issue from 2011.

You will have 66% nationalist majority in 20 years or less, they’re many protestants out there scare of saying that they’re Republicans.

Name one Protestant in NI in the public eye who supports a United Ireland.

Liam Neeson

Liam Neeson is a Catholic.
The clue is in his Irish name LIAM.
Next!

LMAO loyalists are rioting and trying to murder psni members and you want an alliance members to come out and say that they support a United Ireland…..how old are you….ten…..lmao

Unless the Nationalist population turn around and radically alter their voting patterns then there will be very few elected Unionists in 10-15 years time.

I could name 3 people that I know that are members of SF and that are Protestants. 1 of them served time for IRA activities and i’d be certain that one of the others was involved in them as well.

Are you sure? He looks like a Protestant.

Rory mcilroy?

You aren’t following the English economy.

Thing is, London couldn’t give a toss what the economy of the North is like. The English overwhelmingly want rid of it and that is what is going to happen. Votes on the ground are secondary to that, power will continue to be off loaded to the North.

The British will have consultative rights, same as Dublin had under the Anglo-Irish Agreement.

So to cap it off, a minority in the North now see themselves as British. The Unionist population is old and leaving the North and most people in Britain, of whatever political shade view Unionists as red neck fascists. Nationalists be their very history of being refused jobs based on religion tend to be self starters. Unionists are civil servants or retired ones while Nationalists are over represented in business start ups and the self employed.

I saw a comment on an English friend’s facebook page… It was from a mate of his (also English) and the subject was about the riot in Belfast. The comment was along the lines of “LOL look at those Irish people pretending to be British”….

They couldn’t give a damn about Northern Ireland…..

Eamonn:
wonder what did Naomi Long say that you didn’t like ??
maybe, the fact that the Unionists were irresonsibly fanning the flames ??
the truth can be bitter, Eamo.