What about our conflict in other regions. Iraq and Afghanistan come to mind. Don’t forget Britain is part or the EU

Im talking about wars in Europe not wars by Europeans of which the UK is the most Eurosceptic! The EU created a stable platform to sort out differences and has given grants to hundreds of peace and reconcilliation projects around Europe (Including a lot in the north) so even though its in no way perfect its also not all bad!

@David, one step at a time.

I’m not sure winning a peace prize for not fighting within it own borders is appropriate when members of that union engage in offensive action. I take the point that the EU is relatively peaceful for the time being (I’m not absolutely convinced it will say at peace) but by that measure should the US or the federal nation of Canada have been more deserving as they have been at peace for a much longer period and are far more stable than the EU

Yes but America and Canada dont have a history of going to war in their borders- Europe does, its the changing of the situation rather than the situation itself

American civil war. French British war. War or independence. War on Mexico resulting in Texas and new Mexico. It’s a much younger “democracy” nation with not the same history or social divide. During the times of the roman empire things were fairly peacefully within Europe for a greater length of time. As with this project it will succeed or fail with the economy and with all parties being satisfied that they are better in rather than out. With what is going on right now in relation to Spain Greece Italy and us things are not looking good.
While the formation of the EU helped to provide a mechanism for nations to get on. Its primarily an ecomonomic and trading union and intended to be just that. The United Nations was set up for conflict resolution and disputes

Next year NATO.

What’s happening right now in Europe is eerily similar to what happened pre-WWII. If you think the EU is preventing that and not part of the problem you’re a tad deluded dude.

Martin, Michael is right I’m afraid. The entire concept of the EU and its predecessors was simple. Integrate the European countries to such an extent economically that war between them would become almost impossible. France and Germany have been knocking the crap out of each other since the fall of Charlemagne’s empire. Now they are so economically reliant on each other that they couldn’t fight one another for more than a really short period before both of their economies collapse. That was their goal and they have so far succeeded spectacularly in that basic goal. The extra economical and political goals added on are questionable, but the original intent has been achieved.

Dito @martin.

Michael I believe the church had no small role to play in keeping peace in Europe after the war . Common bound Christian beliefs bound many of the democratic countries together and staved of the spread of communism. . The true enemy of Christian beliefs and democracy .

*blinks rapidly*

*re-reads Liam’s post*

Deaglan let us not also forget the unsung contribution the church has played in European civilisation . Without the church there would be no Europe .

One of the more ridiculous things I’ve read, Liam.

Nivah.

You may not like the Church much. I do not but Liam is making a very valid historical point.

Nivag you have posted the most ridiculous post that everyone here has ever read.

Yet the EU is a staunch defender of American foreign policy. So we’ve outsourced the invading and murdering. The EU is a union for corporate and political interests. Farcical decision.

What a stunningly ignorant comment. Go open a history book, and chart euopean history up until 1945; notice a trend? The sole fact Germany and France haven’t been at war in over 70s years is by itself an impressive achievement. The United States has only existed since the 1700s, and your comparison is weak rhetoric

And tell me, who is the Union in European Union? A union of normal people, deciding democratically what’s best for them? Or a union of vested interests who for example bully the people of Greece into accepting austerity that directly kills people? I know which one it is, you can pretend it’s some sort of bastion of democracy holding back the tides of war if you want.

EU nations have been at war, just not on your doorstep. Ask an Afghan child how they feel about the EU winning the Nobel peace prize. Then ask them would they like a slice of an MEP’s salary :)

Ignore them Martin. It’s a disgrace that the EU were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Lick a** at its best. Let’s totally ignore who is arming UK and America with their illegal wars with their ammunition factories arm and fund the War Machine with their bank loans. Sit back smugly and enjoy your fake award but don’t expect all of us to fall for this tripe. The EU as it currently stands is a farce. Peace my backside!

What about Yugoslavia Cyprus & northern Ireland. The EU is far from a peace keeper. Peace keeper must be prepared to go to war. Tell me where the EU has actively led that kind of action.

What you say is inaccurate David. It’s peace in the first place that enabled the possibility of the European project, not the other way round. The 6 original states got together after WW2. Eastern European Countries joined AFTER the end of the Cold War. And now because of EU leaders’ mismanagement Spain and Greece are on the brink of a civil war.

France and Germany haven’t been at war for 70 years for a number of reasons, none involving the EU. The main one was the partition of Germany after the war and US, UK and USSR bases in Germany ensuring she did not rise up again militarily. The Marshall Plan ensured that money came for rebuilding and so Germany did not feel aggrieved as she had after Versailles which allowed extremists to come to power. Another major reason for the peace has paradoxically been the Cold War. The coming together of former enemies in NATO and the Eastern Bloc in defence groupings against a common enemy actually helped keep peace in much the same way that each side having nuclear weapons deterred the other from going to war and using theirs. The EU started as an economic community, it’s supposed role in keeping peace in Europe has only become a line trotted out in the last 30 years by eurocrats seeking ever more political union and power for themselves. If Kissinger was the beginning of the end, Obama the fatal shot, this is the final nail in the coffin of the Nobel Peace Prize’s credibility. Who next year Ahmadinejad and Assad? A total joke.

Maybe because of the current EU turmoil, it is a good time to remember what the EU has achieved and be thankful for it.

The EU is far from perfect -
but they have turned shooting each other into just arguing and thats got to be better.

I hear John Terry got in just ahead of Kenny ;)

Good post Sarah. Sadly many people have short memories. Despite the economic turmoil, we have no idea what real poverty is in Europe. And thankfully few of us know what life during wartime is like. Talk to your grandparents and ask them what life was life was like 60 odd years ago. The EU’s success will be short lived if the lessons of the past are forgotten. He who does not examine his past is doomed to repeat it. The rise in nationalism across Europe is a real worry.

Great quote, I’ll be stealing it :)

Yeah the EU is great when things are running relatively smoothly but it seems as though it’s a different story when things take a turn for the worse!

@jack the rise of nationalism across europe is a good thing.our cultures & history are so different.

Sarah do not forget Romes contribution to European culture this is too often underemphasised without the church’s influence people would not have many of the freedoms they have to day. Many people forget this .

@graham. German nationalism never did Europe any good. Protecting cultural diversity is different. The EU has pumped millions into supporting Irish culture and protecting our language. Money our own government wouldn’t have spent.

A kind of ‘Remember why you were set up in the first place” award.

This award is absolute nonsense. The EU may be preventing member countries to get at each other throats (although the bail-out related bickering is indicative of some divides which never went away) but when it comes to managing conflicts and bringing peace to even the surrounding regions, the EU absolutely sucks. Just remember how the EU handled the largest post-WW2 on the European soil – the Balkans. Absolute rubbish policy response and zero credibility military response. It’s quite easy I guess today to prevent Germany from invading random countries (having said that there is no border with Greece so that must have helped) but when it came to protecting the women and children of Srebrenica and many other places like it, the EU response was embarrassing to say the least. As a European and an EU citizen I am embarrassed with this award.

Dom,You have a point about the apparent ambivalence to our neighbours plight but the eu has absolutely created peace amongst nations that have traditionally been disposed to war, that achievement can and should never be underestimated . And Ireland can hardly talk about the situation in the Balkans or else where , we play the neutrality card when asked to contribute to a rapid reaction force or to contemplate and military harmonisation , we won’t allow increase to corp tax or allow a financial tax , the latter for reasons I understand but don’t ever underestimate the value of a united Europe

Card

^
This.

The power of the church has helped to maintain peace in Europe a fact so many ignore.

Well said. I agree this cheapens the award.

Now is not the time for EU back slapping. there has been 20 30 years for this award but not now. Given that Obama won it in 2009 for nothing at all, this award seems to be a political propaganda farce.

And the church is doing its beat to defend the rights of the poor throughout Europe . However left wing fanaticism thrives under such conditions and there will always be an attempt to keep people in the gutter to further their own cause.

And what caused that stability? Economic growth caused by integration and increased trade between the member state economies. And leaders of the different member states working together rather than stoking up hatred against rival powers.

“And what caused that stability?”

The UN? The break up of Germany? Recovery period from the extent of WWII? Memories of the horror of WWII? The escalation of arms? The Cold War? NATO?

People would rather peace than war.

Absolute nonsense; there’s plenty of evidence that the EU *HAS* actually prevented the wars. http://t.co/diRjDm1x

Can someone point out to me what wars the EU stopped, and I won’t accept any answers that suggest peace on the continent is proof they stopped wars, that’s not proof…it’s coincidental and conjecture.

@Dermot That’s like asking someone to point out the people whose lives have been saved because of road safety measures. You need only look at history to know that close to 70 years of peace in Europe is highly unusual.

Not really a comparable analogy sorry.
Road safety measures were specifically designed to cut down on road fatalities, the EEC was designed as a trading entity which morphed into the political machine now known as the EU.
70 years of relative peace between member states has more to do with economics than the intervention of the EU and bear in mind – the main crux of the war argument is peace between member states disregarding the culpability of the EU in facilitating American aggression and violation of human rights.

Dermot, there’s all those times where the EU waded in to resolve international disputes between member states … erm …

The EU was never set up to prevent wars between its member states. It was NATO that was set up for this. EU was all about economics and trying to make a United Nations of Europe, to become a strong player on the world markets.

On the other hand when they are awarding to the EU they might emphasise that probably the best thing that’s happened with the EU has been the separation of church and state , I for one am very thankful that the church’s power in the past has been greatly dimished , their appalling handling of widespread sexual abuse of young people by hundreds of priests worldwide , the disgraceful protection afforded to nazi murderers after WW2 and the constant preaching of outdated fairy tales is thankfully much in decline and less interfering in all our lives these days.

Dave Hammond there are no shortage of people like you who would prefer that the church’s good works be written out of history .it typifies the attitude of all left wing atheists. You make grossly exaggerated claims yet you provide absolutely no proof . Why should any one pay attention to your rantings , when you exaggerate all facts to nebulas dimensions . You try to use bullying tactics to subdue people of faith. Sure crimes were committed and mistakes were made , but it is unforgivable that you would smear your vile lies across a billion people . People who are only trying to do the best they can in this life . Your persistent vitriolic attacks make me feel uneasy and remind me of the Stalanist times. Please stop . The faithful will always persevere in the face of resilience . We are righteous by our good actions and god will be our final judge not the likes of you.

Dave I find it quite flattering that you are stalking me ? I only pray That it’s as inconsistent as the attitude displayed in your posts on the journal.

You seriously need a reality check , how much proof do you need about paedophilia priests ? Grossly exaggerated ? Really? Exaggerated to nebula dimensions , really , have you read the multiple reports on sex abuse by the church ? It’s unforgivable I’m smearing lies? Well I thought your religion was based on the principles of forgiveness , although its something I don’t seek or elect from the church as I’m not telling any lies. I don’t persistently make vitriolic attacks , and if I remind you of Stalin then I strongly recommend you read up on your history.thanks for your completely misguided ,inaccurate and false comment but really , it would be best if you stop bringing religion onto the forums altogether try styay on topic and away from insults and nasty comments.

Dave Hammond it’s ok for you to bring your atheistic agenda to the table but I can’t share my religous beliefs . How dare you violate my human rights. You are certainly a fascist . I asked you to present proof here of wrongdoings and your response was to make a vitriolic attack . I acknowledged mistakes were made but only by a minority a fact you keep refusing to acknowledge . Instead you want to label a billion people as criminal who should not have a right to practise their religion in all phases of life. People of belief are here to stay despite your hate. And we will continue to champion the underdog , the poor and innocent whom you and your left wing extremists would exploit for their own political agenda. People are smarter than you think and they can see through your paltry attempt to subdue the truth and the light. I don’t fear you for I find men of your ilk weak in spirit and cowards and do nothing for society but drag it to the gutter. Put to the test your kind will always falter for god is not on your side. May god forgive you for I am finding it very hard to.

Your type will never win the battle against good . you and your kind will be driven from the earth with the same force that Jesus drove the merchants from the temple . Jesus was the flesh of god made man , he wasn’t a weak man he was a man of strength both physically and spiritually he preached love and forgiveness but not for those who would violate his fathers house. I caution you not to violate his believers and blaspheme our god . Remember we are a billion strong and you are an insignificant one. You walk a precarious path into an unknown forest of many who would wilfully give up their lives to keep the light and the truth of The Lord. We only turn the other cheek until you attack our house.

Should the European Union have won the nobel prize is the topic. I’m not interested in a bullshit religious debate with you.

Seriously , you need help.