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Dublin: 9 °C Thursday 23 May, 2013

Column: Ireland’s treatment of asylum seekers is unfair – and bad value for money

Ireland has 6,740 asylum seekers living in an antiquated direct provision system that is not fit for purpose, write Gavan Titley and Ronit Lentin.

Gavan Titley

LAST MONTH SAW the launch of a new campaign, Anti Deportation Ireland (ADI), working to end all deportations, close down the inhumane direct provision system, and allow all asylum seekers to work.

In today’s Ireland 6,740 asylum-seekers live in 43 direct provision hostels, excluded from employment and education, enduring long, anxious waits for determination. According to the Department of Justice, almost half of asylum-seekers living in direct provision centres have been there for more than three years, and some have waited for more than five years for a decision. The United National Committee for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) expressed concern at the negative impact of life in direct provision, and particularly at the delay in determining asylum seekers’ cases.

In the last weeks, the Irish Refugee Council issued a report on ‘State Sanctioned Child Poverty and Exclusion’ that concluded that many children – who comprise over a third of the asylum system’s population – are living in extreme poverty, in overcrowded accommodation, and with inadequate food. As the current struggle over the closure of Lisbrook House in Galway illustrates, the paucity of the living standards in accommodation centres is exacerbated by being subject to arbitrary dispersal from one part of the county to another.

Despite frequent claims that the direct provision system provides the best value for money, TheJournal.ie reported – based on figures published by the Minister of Justice – that the Irish State spent €69.5 million housing and ‘caring’ for asylum seekers in 2011, with the majority of funding used to pay for commercially owned hostels. FLAC (2003) argues that direct provision represents a departure from the normal Irish social welfare code and contravenes the Equal Status Act, even though the Act does not permit a challenge to government policies. In 2009 FLAC argued that the Department of Justice has created a ‘direct provision industry’, which makes a profit for commercial managements on the backs of asylum seekers, costing the Irish tax payers €70,892 per resident per annum in 2009 – a somewhat lower figure of €49.1 million per annum.

Deportation in Ireland

In a report investigating a ‘culture of disbelief’ among some decision-makers in the asylum determination process, the Irish Refugee Council noted that 135 people were accepted as refugees in Ireland last year. This amounts to less than half of the EU average, with UK acceptance rates four times that of Ireland. The human costs of physical and psychological isolation and socio-economic deprivation are amplified by the trauma of deportation and forcible removal. According to the Department of Justice, between 2005 and 2010 ‘only’ 1,413 people out of 5,943 with deportation orders were actually deported from Ireland, and in 2010 alone 572 were ‘voluntarily repatriated’.

Deportation is defended as necessary to the integrity of the state and its asylum and immigration system. However, there is a significant disparity between deportation orders issued and those effected, in a system with the lowest rate of acceptance in the EU. The Irish State continues to insist that its right to deport is a cornerstone of its immigration system. Responding to criticism of the deportation regime, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence Alan Shatter has written in Metro Eireann that deportations remain ‘an unfortunate but necessary component of a balanced and fair immigration system… For the Irish State to relinquish its right of deportation, subject of course to our laws and to human rights obligations, would subvert the principles of fairness and due process which are cornerstones of our immigration system’

However, in most cases years can pass before all the legal routes are exhausted and a deportation order is issued. Once this happens, individuals become ‘deportable subjects’ and may be ordered to report to the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) in Dublin. There is very limited scope to challenge deportation decisions in Ireland because there is no independent appeals body.

This can happen several times: on each occasion, people do not know whether or not they will actually be deported. In addition to this there are individuals living in the direct provision system who cannot be removed because judicial review is pending, they are parent of a child whose protection claim is outstanding, or they have no documents. According to the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) officials, 400 people living within the direct provision system with deportation orders cannot be removed. This is deportability turned into a Kafkaesque nightmare.

Even though only a minority of those issued with deportation orders are actually deported, EU states, including Ireland, monitor neither the dangers faced by deportees on their return, nor the inhuman and degrading conditions under which people are deported, leading to several deaths in recent years.

It is clear that a situation this unjust and inhumane, that involves such vast expenditure while failing to ensure adequate standards of living, cannot continue in this form. Further analysis can be found in ADI’s report on the system here.

Ronit Lentin is associate professor in the Department of Sociology in TCD. Gavan Titley is lecturer in the School of English, Media and Theatre Studies in NUI Maynooth. They are both involved in the ADI campaign.

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Comments (156 Comments)

  • This is a difficult one…asylum has become and industry over the last 15/20 years where most of the attention goes to unscrupulous lawyers trying to abuse those in need, and fake asylum seekers trying to abuse the system.

    Governments and legislation in Europe are so focus on the 2 above, that they forget what their role and responsibility towards genuine asylum seekers are, and often fail to do the necessary to guarantee this human right.

    Very complex matter and very difficult to resolve, but it would help to start by getting the focus right.

    Reply
    • I don’t think it’s all that difficult to solve. What logical argument is there against letting them all in and register them with the system?

      Reply
    • What part of D.4 are you from Andrew!? You obviously haven’t a clue as you’ve never come in contact with anyone more removed from your walk of life then the Eastern Europeans who wax your Daddy’s Bentley down the Garage!!

      Reply
    • Making snap judgments about people doesn’t exactly help your argument. Particularly when they couldn’t be further from the truth. I’d hazard that I’ve been in more contact with the severely underprivileged and deprived in my time than you ever will. Why not provide that logical argument I was asking for?

      Reply
    • i agree with you Patitas we have lost our focus on the REAL and TRUE asylum seekers and REFUGIES,
      the only 1s proffiting from the system we now have in place is the legal system.
      millions is being spent on deciding if a HUMAN BEING is entitled to stay in the state while that money could be better used for other purposes

      Reply
  • I’m genuinely confused; the columnists propose abolishing deportation, without proffering an alternative?
    If there’s no deportation, is that not a de facto admission that everybody stays, irrespective of the validity of their claim? What happens, if next year, 20,000 asylum seekers arrive? Or 50,000?
    Did I miss some sensible alternative within this article?

    Reply
    • means they can all stay and work, 50,000 of them. great fun :/

      Reply
    • What happens if the 80-100,000 economic refugees we export every year stick on the handbrake and say, hang on a minute..135 refugees ACCEPTED for status, many out of war-zones whose problems we collaborate in creating….while fat-cat tax-exiles milk the direct-provision incarceration and dictate policy through our democratic instruments..what matricks game am I caught up in in here?And who is my real problem, these few desperate people or the gluttons on all our backs?

      Put your fantasy figures away lads, lets try dealing with real facts. Its fantasising got us the banana tree of recession. Time to sober up a little.

      Reply
    • tom 13/11/12 #

      there are 72000 immigrants arriving every month.

      Reply
    • 72,000, Tom..?

      I think you’re thinking to the number of $lu$h dollar$(in millions) churning through the IFSC’s filing-cabinet tax-havens for laundry services.
      http://www.treasureislands.org

      Reply
  • i am a man that believes EVERY ONE has the right to a good life.We spend 69million euro looking after people who have given nothing to this Country ,yet we are taking the medical card off old age penisioner who have given there lifes to this Country,closeing hospitals,cutting children allowance.and a lot more,that is my opinion ,but every human being has a right to a good life,so let us start and look after our own people ,

    Reply
    • well said

      Reply
    • What do you mean by ‘nothing’ ‘life’ and ‘our own’?

      Reply
    • Exactly this. A fortune is spent on people whose families have made a living out of abusing the welfare system for generations, they don’t work and didn’t work even during the celtic tiger age, they get engage in unsocial behaviour and play every trick available to get stuff for free…even planning their pregnancies to get free housing.

      Everyone knows about it and who they are, yet the cuts hit first those more vulnerable.

      Reply
    • Gerry
      would you accept that to define yourself as a ‘human being’, every body has to be ‘our own people’.

      The first history of Ireland is the Book of Invasions. Therse must be the first arrivals(including our forefathers) not to be landing with more efficient military technology.
      We have to stop thinking insular flat-earth. Its spherical, to be human requires thinking with humanity, in each sense of the word.
      Our problems are increasingly global. Nationalist-fixated hominids will not solve them. It will require human intelligence, not tribal insecurities and reaction.
      Minister Shatter himself is probably a product of immigrant refugees. He should display a little recognition of how closed borders cost his own people dearly.

      Reply
    • The two-hour thumb count indicates the falt-earth knuckle-dragger hominids outnumber the humans…but the human race is not over yet..could be a photo finish.

      Reply
    • Patitas..

      Pat-ethic

      Reply
    • Damien, Jews have been in Ireland since the 12th century.

      Reply
    • At least…how long have the Niazis been here…my lot are blow-ins from only about 5 centuries back..

      Reply
  • OU812 13/11/12 #

    They’re supposed to claim asylum in the first country they come to. We’re the furthest one away from anywhere, they have to pass through several to get here.

    Apart from very few genuine cases, they’re social welfare tourists. Deport the lot of them & if any o them make it back, then give them status.

    Reply
    • exactly my point, sham the lot. they were nowhere to be seen during the troubles here.

      Reply
    • That makes no sense to me. Let’s say they are shams and welfare tourists, why would they spend years living like animals is shitty conditions getting nothing on the slim hope that at the end of that ordeal they’ll be entitled to stay? Also, before they can enjoy their free ride on the gravy train they’d still have to work first before their entitled to collect the dole, that’s another year or so. It makes no sense. In fact this is one of the dumbest theories I’ve ever read.

      Reply
    • You don’t have to have worked to get the dole, you can sign on when you finish school

      Reply
    • On the list of priorities as to where you claim asylum under the Dublin Convention, the first EU country you arrived in is midway down the list. Why do people keep claiming otherwise after corrected?

      Reply
    • EP 13/11/12 #

      Unles someone happens to be trafficked in? Then they probably have no idea what port of call they are even arriving at. Im sure when a person is fleeing their homeland for their safety, ireland is their number one destination.. Imagine, the thoughts of living in run down accommodation centres for years on end, no prospects of employment until your claims been processed, receiving less than twenty euro a week, the generous tolerant nature some people (evident in comments here), oh….and i forgot…our beautiful weather… yup, If ever there was a reason for me to seek asylum, i would just love to end up somewhere just like here…

      Reply
  • Susanna 13/11/12 #

    I thought asylum seekers go to the country nearest to their country of origin. We’re an island beside the UK?

    Reply
    • Which is why the countries with the highest rates of refugees are all countries outside of Europe. However, seeking asylum somewhere where you have connections or family members is widely accepted (particularly in the Dublin Convention)

      Reply
  • Ireland can’t afford to look after her own, never mind thousands of immigrants. I also can’t understand why we spend so much on overseas aid. What is the point of getting a bailout and then spending millions of the borrowed money on overseas aid when so many Irish people are struggling here?

    Reply
  • Im just so sick of it here in Cork. We have had thousands of so called refugees come over our border…they take cushy jobs…marry our women….never support their adopted county….make their little kids wear their native tribal colours…sickening! Many the Summer they gleefully rub our noses in it when they beat us in the Munster final. F*#@ing Kerrymen!

    Reply
  • The UKs acceptance rate is 4 times greater than hours, i dont believe it. Coincidence that their population is over 15 times the size of ours, they have more jobs available and collect more tax. We cant afford the cost of asylum seekers at present. We need to be looking after our own. This may sound harsh but we have our own worries at present, taking in asylum seekers should be bottom of our list of things to do.

    Reply
    • There is no correlation between these figures. It’s the acceptance rate that is 4 times that of Ireland, not the total of acceptances. Therefore, whatever the relative size of populations, the disparity remains.

      Reply
    • Many are from Commonwealth countries so they have an easier time getting accepted in the UK. Anyone from a Commonwealth nation arriving here should be sent to the UK, we didn’t colonise them so let the Brits deal with them.

      Reply
    • I think the Brits are up to their tits dealing with refugee Paddies just at the minute.

      Reply
    • Tommy C 13/11/12 #

      Damien, these Paddys speak the language and have trades and skills plus the culture and lifestyle is similar and the 2 communities mix.

      Reply
    • When I was there I worked and mixed with Africans, Asians, Brits, Irish, Cnucks…and found them all human and decent, not least the much maligned Pakistanis; and refreshingly so after parochial Dublin ‘city’.

      Galway was more cosmipolitan in the’80s…though the Pale is finally losing its homoginised monoglot Anglophile nervousness.

      Reply
  • sorrry but charity begins at home ,we have Irish nationals born and reared queing up for food parcels ,home help cut for those who need it ,ppl stealing food to feed there children …i could go on and on ,truth is we cant afford them ,send them home if things are so bad for them here then they would be better off and so would we !!

    Reply
    • Oh ffs, seriously? They’re asylum seekers, they’re not escaping a downturn or a recession. Violence, rape, war abuse. That’s what they’re escaping. So things are shit here, but at least they’re not dead. Sending them all back is not a remotely humane option.

      Reply
  • This is awful. There is right and wrong to both sides of the argument. But we are a tiny nation, who is going through a deep recession. So many Irish people are suffering terribly. The state has a constitutional duty of care to her citizens first and foremost. This is not the time for us to be taking in and spending huge amount of money on asylum seekers. How can we look after others if we cant look after our own?

    Reply
    • Don’t worry Carol. Looking after our own means something very specific now if you work in banking, insurance or patenting. I hope with that knowledge of our constitutional duties you voted at the weekend….shame to waste a good mind.

      Reply
    • And its not the E19.10 a week that crippled the economy and sees 80-100,000 economic refugees exiting while a trickle of maybe war-traumatised enter; its the leeches capitalising on their plight.
      Think it through.

      Reply
  • I worked in refugee determination for a number of years. I take serious
    issue with your article.

    Firstly, it is imperative to recognise that there are lies, damn lies and
    then statistics. 135 people may very well have been afforded refugee status
    (which for the layman reading this has a very specific legal definition –
    it is not simply a term for people fleeing war-torn countries) but no
    mention is made of the numbers that have been afforded humanitarian leave
    to remain. The number afforded this status was over 1100 in 2011. There is
    also the prospect of being afforded subsidiary protection, however this
    protection figure is much lower due to its very technical legal definition.

    Secondly, the comparison between Ireland and the UK is a red herring. This
    is not comparing like-for-like. The UK’s source countries for asylum in
    2011 were Iran, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Ireland’s top source countries were
    Nigeria, Pakistan and China – totally different circumstances in two top
    source-countries. No consideration is given to the fact that there are
    generally no direct access routes to Ireland from the majority of the
    countries of origin, whereas our nearest neighbours have direct routes to
    almost all source countries. In short, an asylum seeker making it to
    Ireland, will generally pass through one of more ‘safe’ countries on the
    way here.

    While painting a more sympathetic view of the UK system in quoting
    statistics, the writers makes no mention of the fast-track detention regime
    in place in the UK which, when compared to the Irish system of direct
    provision, could certainly be considered to be less humane than ours. What
    some people seem to overlook when decrying the direct provision scheme is
    that an asylum seeker is supposed to be fleeing from the likelihood of
    death or serious harm. Being required to live in a hostel in Ireland with
    the prospect of being moved once every so often does not seem so injurious
    in comparison to death or serious harm, in my view. I certainly would not
    relish the prospect of direct provision personally, but if a person is
    genuinely seeking refuge from serious harm, then it is an adequate and
    humane measure – albeit not perfect.

    What is truly disappointing about this article is that it fails to
    recognise the true problem that faces policy-makers. From my own experience
    and understanding of the asylum industry in Ireland (and I am loath to use
    that term) is that, generally, it is the people with the most wealth and
    resources who make it to Ireland. The relative price against average
    earnings in order get out of Nigeria or Pakistan, or wherever, and make it
    to Ireland is extremely high. So we in Ireland spend much of our time
    focussing on claims that are, in the majority, unfounded. In the meantime
    the poor, indigent and genuinely persecuted are left behind in makeshift
    camps or fleeing internally to more poverty, deprivation and serious harm.
    We should be making inroads in bringing programme refugees to Ireland –
    instead of expending immense resources feeding the voracious lawyers who
    take vexatious cases designed to delay the end-result, whilst
    simultaneously lining their own pockets. All this at the expense of the
    tax-payer.

    Furthermore, I take umbrage at the term ‘culture of disbelief’ that is
    often bandied about concerning asylum decision-makers. I worked alongside
    very conscientious people who assessed claims based on their own merit,
    facts, circumstances, credibility and country information done in
    accordance with the law. I will not say everyone I worked with was perfect,
    but in general we all took our responsibilities seriously. Oftentimes the
    media will portray the plight of an asylum-seeker while the decision-maker
    and the Department will make absolutely no response. This often gives the
    impression that the decision-maker has something to hide. This failure to
    comment, however, is due to the overriding concern for the rights of the
    individual to their privacy in making an asylum application.

    Finally, you offer no alternative to deportation. The Supreme Court has
    held, time and again, that this is a necessary end-point to maintain the
    integrity of the asylum and immigration system. I hasten to add that it is
    not only a right that the State retains in regard to its asylum and
    immigration system; it is a responsibility the State owes to the
    citizen/taxpayer and to those seeking to enter Ireland legitimately to
    ensure that a fair programme exists for everyone’s benefit

    Reply
    • @Sammy;
      Ta for that considered piece, makes a change from the knee-jerk snarling and rejection of information that prevails.

      Your exit on the note of ‘..legitimately to ensure that a fair programme exists for everyone’s benefit’ prompts me to state that we are a long way from that ideal; and that this issue and its ranting resenters is being cynically used to divert from the culprits who have created the economic circumstances that are creating and driving dangerous emotive reflex reaction.
      There are a bundle of complex geopolitical issues and covert econoomic forces driving these population tides (which have always existed) and as post-colonial(well, directly anyway)nation with a history of economic emigration(often illegally entering other states and excercising special pleading ) we should have a larger perspective than insular me feinism.
      As a returned economic refugee, I know a little of the issue, and how far we are(and accelerating away from)any ‘fair programme… for everyone’s benefit’.

      Reply
  • Asylum is an industry peopled by professional lefties and bleeding hearts. We give millions each year to aid poorer countries, we can’t afford to pay for tens of thousands of them to live here off the state also. Social workers, solicitors and professional whingers support them. We are totally broke, can’t afford it, sorry.

    Reply
    • Well said Stephen !!!

      Reply
    • Stephen, the article states in the 2nd paragraph that slightly less than 7,000 people live in direct provision;, but ‘tens of thousands’ are living off the state? The article also documents that the current system is costing huge amounts of money while denying asylum-seekers the opportunity to work, and therefore not to be dependent on state provision. So what, precisely do you disagree with?

      Reply
    • Gavan I bet there is about 7000 in balbriggan alone.

      Reply
    • if they think Ireland is so bad what are they doing here? ferrys and planes leave around the clock..
      we are to much of a soft touch they came here for refuge they complain about out service imagine what they would be like should the be let live here.
      deportation for all

      Reply
    • James Attley:

      There are not 7,000 people living in direct provision in Balbriggan. In fact, there are none.

      You really should have taken the time to find out what direct provision is before posting your comment. But since you didn’t, your comment stands as a useful example of the impulsive and senseless racist garbage that clogs up any attempt at sensible public discussion of what people living under direct provision have to endure.

      Reply
    • Speak for yourself Stephen..I’m still a multi-millionaire tax-exile who controls most of your opinions through my media empire while you whinge about these E19.10 a week drains on your economy…hahaha..its my buddies run the direct-provision prison system…

      Don’t wake up…my hammock doesn’t need swinging yet.

      Reply
    • A welfare state is frightened of every poor person who tries to get in and every rich person who tries to get out.
      Harry Browne

      Reply
  • Well surely if they were genuinely here seeking asylum because they feared for their safety they would be glad to be here? I honestly suspect most of the claims are shams. And if they’re so poor, who buys all these Dre Beats?

    Reply
    • have a nice day at work james :)

      Reply
    • course they’re shams. asylum seeking should be stopped. their first point of entry is not here.

      Reply
    • What you suspect based on absolutely no evidence? Why should it be stopped. Of there was a war here tomorrow and my family were in the slightest danger I’d be jumping ship to wherever would take us. What right have we to deny people residency here? Just because we happened to be born here and they happened to be born on another side of an imaginary line they are forced to live in poverty and constant fear.

      Reply
    • well andrew, if there was a war, next stop for us would be iceland, uk, france or usa NOT skipping all the not so economically attractive countries to get to japan! on that note, Japan have the right approach. we don’t see them taking pc shite from all ye lot. cos thats all it is, pc shite gone wrong.

      Reply
    • Most I’ve come across are from Lagos, doesn’t quite seem as bad as say Syria. Just at the one that got caught out telling all them lies about the FGM, we couldn’t get rid of her for the do gooders and I would hate to think how much that all cost.

      Peasant I will and ill enjoy spending all my disposable income over the weekend too. What’s for dinner tonight? Cold can of baked beans?

      Reply
    • ill have smoked mackerel and spuds as part of my gym diet, ill have fun spending your disposable income too, sure maybe the refugees will have a piece while they’re at it

      Reply
    • PC shite gone wrong? It’s not politically correct to support the vulnerable. It’s just correct… If letting a hundred genuine asylum seekers in means, also letting a thousand non-genuine ones in then what harm?

      Reply
    • Scarr 13/11/12 #

      @andrew you mentioned war breaking out – and this is a good reason for an individual to claim asylum – such as Syrians. However, if a small insurrection was to happen, say, in Kerry, and you lived there, would you move your family to France or maybe to Dublin? The reason I ask is that not every area in africa is at war, so why would someone move their family off the continent and not just down the road so to speak?

      Reply
    • You dont spend mine as I dont live in Ireland. Put that mackerel in yer pipe and smoke it. And dont worry after the buget you wont have anything to spend. Have a nice day.

      Reply
    • I’d move for the same reasons that the majority if these people did. Better opportunities for jobs, religious freedom, good health care and an accepting community. If war broke out here tomorrow and Bulgaria offered these far better than the UK did, I’d move straight to Bulgaria.

      Reply
    • Scarr 13/11/12 #

      @james – the FGM Pamela izevbekhai case cost €1,000,000.

      Reply
    • If there was an insurrection in Kerry the likelihood is that the entire state would be made unstable and that me and my family would be called to war. Valid reason to want to escape I think.

      Reply
    • free travel passes free medical card free accommodation. what’s not to love?

      Reply
    • Scarr 13/11/12 #

      @andrew – strangely enough the insurrections in Africa have not destabilised the whole region, yet thousands feel the need to leave and claim asylum instead of moving many miles away. So strange. Asylum in sone cases is a way to subvert the normal emigration process. There was a report on pat kenny regarding asylum recently (it’s on iTunes) where asylum seekers in mosney were interviewed. The ones who would talk about their reasons for asylum, not all are for getting away from the ravages of war, some had familial or local problems. Sorry, but move to another town or city or apply for an Irish visa. We’re quite welcoming really.

      Reply
  • Can’t complain without the racism card being played

    Reply
  • The race card needs to be addressed. Not everyone who believes we should deport people found to be undeserving of asylum is racist. Its a valid argument because without that policy we would likely soon find ourselves overwhelmed with people claiming to be what they are not. It would dilute care for genuine asylum seekers once they are verified and is a slap in the face to people who bother with our visa procedure.
    No matter how poor we are it does not change the fact that its right to help people when we can. But that help must be proportionate to the resources available.
    Bad living conditions are a shame and it sounds like we could be running it more efficiently but its still better than living in whatever conditions caused the person to flee. The point has been made that Ireland is somewhat out of the way for many people from deserving countries so I would expect less genuine cases and therefore a higher deportation rate. Pointing to the UK rates proves nothing. Maybe our system is unfair, maybe theirs is not working right? Experience with both governments suggests to me that perhaps both leave a lot to be desired.

    Reply
  • What about unfair treatment of Irish people? We can no longer cater for asylum seekers.

    Reply
  • This isn’t about not wanting to help people it is a case we are broke ourselves. We have to look after our own before we help others. Through the boom years we took in tens of thousands.

    Reply
    • Now we are economicaly deporting hundreds of thousands..so you can have the luxury of ranting about a tiny minority incoming and the bankers laugh all the way to the….

      Offshore accounts department..you will never wake the oirish…nanana

      Reply
  • separate the economic from the genuine refugees, and deport them immediately – no access to assistance, leech lawyers and bleeding hearts whom I note haven’t opened their doors themselves but love telling everyone else to contribute – a compassionate society has been replaced by society seen as a easy target because we hand out money, food and assistance – as many have noted we are not the first safe port of call but we are the land of choice because we area seen as soft and easy to rort – we don’t like being taken for a ride but we are one on the most generous nations on earth

    Reply
  • i am sick of the racist card ,irish people have no jobs and it costs a fortune to send your child to college but now people want to accept everybody in as a refugee and give them handouts,these so called refugees had to have come through a different country to get here so should have seeked asylum at that country,you will find they are not here because of war in their own country or the fear of being killed they are here because we as a nation have too do gooders.so why dont all the do gooders go and take them into their home and take care of them that way they wont be bleeding the state or the tax payer

    Reply
  • Am really enjoying the comments here but can i ask one question???? Why do we think that all blacks in Ireland are Asylum seekers?? Personally am black and a student in UCD . I only came here to study and go back home when i finish my studies with no intention of remaining in Ireland.
    Am really paying huge sum of my money to study in this country and i believe that the money am paying also benefits the people who calls me Asylum seeker.

    Reply
    • Don’t take this out of context this is about asylum seekers not colour or race. Hope your studies go well.

      Reply
    • I’d say its amusing, Issa…we are a primitive tribal sorta bunch…happy to get scorched by our speculators masters and then turn on hapless minorities…its our Oirish industrialised hospitality industry.

      Cead Mile Faulty. Basil will be along in a moment, Sybil has paged him on th emigrant plane.

      Reply
  • this country like someone said should not have asylum seekers because they would have entered another country first,if there are no jobs for the irish why would we be giving them jobs.a lot of so called refugees are here for the money there is no war in their country.africa is not part of the eu but england has to accept africans because they are part of the common wealth ,we are not.i think any do gooder who wants to keep them here should take refugees into their homes and look after them from their own pocket,

    Reply
  • @Begrudgy ,most of the comments on here are true ,ppl where asked for there comments and thats how we feel .this country is sinking in case you havent noticed and you can call me a racist if you like i personaly couldent care less but i believe we have to look after our own first and formost ,and if this was a racist country they would have been stopped at the port of entry ,we have very limited resources and it is my believe that they should be shared out amongst IRISH ppl !!!!!!!!!

    Reply
  • A couple of years ago I worked for a coach company who took on a few jobs of driving asylum seekers to and fro from their accommodation and I had the”pleasure” of driving the bus a few times until I refused to the company to do it anymore.
    The reasons for this was the level of contempt, bad manners and abuse I received from these passengers! When I say these passengers I would like to make clear that this behaviour came solely from the African peoples on the bus not any other grouping .
    So I’d just like to say to the ADI or any asylum seeker reading this if you want better conditions then it’s time to win the hearts of the Irish people before the system can change, lose the aggressive attitude and learn some manners try starting with ‘hello, goodbye, please and thank you’ it’s not difficult!
    But a word of warning we don’t suffer fools gladly (except our fools in the Dail) continue with this contemptuous behaviour and you will only succeed in turning the whole of Treasure Island (your words not mine) into racists!

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    • allan 14/11/12 #

      The ‘African’ people huh?’ you must be related to that racist idiot mayor of Naas.

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    • In fairness politeness means different things in different countries. Rwandans has no concept of please and rarely uses thank you. They laughed at my sisters questioning of this (shes havin the craic over there, nice country) and said all white people are so formal.

      @allan You could say he basically means blacks but it could also be a fair comment because of the cultural simliarities of some countries. Though he should probably cut it down from all Africans, big place that.

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    • @allan- yep that’s right they were from the African continent and it makes no difference who I’m related to, so long as its not you faceless little cartoon person I’ll be ok!
      @Conor- understood cultural difference can cause difficulty but this was different, without going into a life story I’d like to think I’ve been around enough now to guage people and situations fairly well and what I experienced was not particularly nice to say the least, it was to the point of being confrontational for no apparent reason! Yep the African continent is a big place 54 countries I think and unfortunately mate I can’t tell the difference between the nationalities, if I have to narrow it down then the best I can do is the people i dealt with were sub Saharan which means yes they were black, but I purposely avoided saying that in the first comment because I was trying to avoid a tirade of eijets branding me a racist when the point I was trying to make was to do with attitude and manners!
      Anyhow glad to hear your sister is having a blast in Rwanda hope I can visit parts of Africa in the future, it’s on the wish list!

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  • i wonder how many of the people on here who are ‘up in arms’ over the the issue of ‘ DIRECT PROVISION’ to asylum seekers are the same people who advocate giving vouchers and direct provision to the unemployed and those on s.w ?. cant see why those who pass through other ‘safe’ countries to get here cant simply be sent back to those ‘safe’ countries when they go past immigration at the air port or seaport . it may not be perfect but the system we have is all we can offer, as for allowing the asylum seekers to go out to work, where are these jobs coming from? in case you havnt noticed we have rising unemployment in this country.

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  • they must be earmarking the new sugar tax to pay for this …if i move to another country i have to be able to support myself and my family , welfare states are open to be abused and i for one am fed up with the amount of people irish and non irish ripping of the system that gives the majority of us nothing back so while we all argue here nothing is gonna change , those who take will continue taking and those who scam will scam and the rest of us will continue to be screwed .

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  • allan 13/11/12 #

    The Asylum system has been turned into a money – making business for the contractors and the government . Many are enduring serious mental health issues with nowhere, or no one to turn to. The overtly racist community does not make it any easier. Despite all that’s being highlighted on this issue yet nothings being done( by the United Nations Human Rights Agencies) to end this organized crime.

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  • I have to say to Gavin (the writer) that I find it puzzling that you will address some small points raised by others here but when I deconstuct your argument and demonstrate the major flaws inherent in it, you remain tellingly quiet. It’s as if you only want to answer the extremists and ignore the voices of moderation in a debate that needs to be had. Then again I suppose some people profit from, and make a living by, perpetuating or exaggerating the divisions of our society.

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  • sorry, but i am from a town that has died over last few years, businesses closing down daily and nothing opening only charity shops, but we did make the news when a TV program was done on the accessibility of drugs, straight to the asylum seekers housing, and get what you like, they don’t supply grass, weed ,hash stuff what ever its called, but heavy drugs, they can shop in the most expensive shops in town, best baby buggy’s on offer, and then you go to shop and Irish woman shopping with 20 euro for the week with 3 young kids,, that is sad, i feel the Irish are put on back boiler, screw the Irish, and look after the asylum seekers,

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  • Purple Monkey Dishwasher

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  • Wow! an intelligent comment. Well said, Gavin.

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  • A question for those who would argue that ‘we can’t afford them’ and need to ‘look after our own’ in the current crisis.

    Do you see any evidence that ceasing to look after those who are ‘not our own’ would result in increased attention to ‘our own’? Where, given the years of cuts and the full-frontal assault on the social state and the poor since 2008, do you see any evidence that this is an either/or question, rather than both/and?

    Relatedly, who then is the ‘we’ that decides that ‘we can’t afford them’? This collective idea suggests that we have equal power to make this and other decisions about the allocation of resources, when we patently don’t. It’s a political fantasy to speak of such a ‘we’ under conditions when the very problems of poverty and injustice you are referencing have been imposed on people in Europe in the services of keeping an imploding financialized economy going. The anti-social ‘fiscal discipline’ being imposed in Ireland and southern Europe over the last years is very similar to what has been imposed on, for example, many African countries in the last decades.

    Therefore, if it is not just a limited question of nationality and all that goes with that, isn’t there a chance that people being plunged into poverty, insecurity and endless anxiety on the island of Ireland – whether that be through the withdrawal of basic services or the imposition of basic services, through the loss of a job or being prohibited from having one – have more in common with each other than with a political class that is only interested in second-guessing the wishes of global markets and powerful tax exiles?

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    • Patitas 13/11/12 #

      Gavin, you are right, it should not be an either or question. It becomes and either or because the state takes years to make a decision, and along with that there are expenses.

      Europe as a whole as opposed to individual countries should have a collective approach to deal with this. The rules should be clear and the processes speeded up so within the space of a couple of weeks or months they are either sent back or start making a contribution to society.

      This should also reduce the business opportunities for those trying to abuse the applicants.

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    • Less with the facts there, Gavan..

      ..you’re going to ruin the craftily constructed scapegoat decoy that lets the real culprits off the hook.

      Thats not an OIrish solution.

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  • What a load of sick twisted minds these comment come from. Look on as the bombs rain on the towns and villages in Syria, Afghanistan Irak Palestine see the people running for their lives, there only possession , what they could grab up as they ran for safety, then Irish people tell them to f..k off. Think of the hundreds of thousands of Irish who fled the country. In desperation, and were taken in by people who had not lost their basic human qualities, those that separate man from animal

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  • I wouldn’t usually bother commenting on something like this but some of the comments on here would make you sick,my sister works with asylum seekers and the people seeking asylum in this country come from awful situations,war,religious persecution, rape and mutilation etc then they come here to “a land of a thousand welcomes” and they’re put into accommodation which you wouldn’t put an animal in,they’re given 19.10 a week regardless of if they have kids that they’ve to buy nappies,food or clothes for,and often taken out of these places in the middle of the night and moved to the opposite end of the country where they know nobody and for no apparent reason,I personally think its so they can’t build ties with the community because then god forbid they might have someone who cares enough about them to fight their corner. Another thing in the comments here about them not working,they’re not allowed work or educate themselves while they’re applying for asylum but the amount of asylum seekers doing volunteer work while they’re here is unbelievable and something nobody talks about so don’t tell me they don’t contribute to our society cos I know more of them that volunteer than Irish people. Not every asylum seeker should be granted asylum but for the love of god treat them with a bit of dignity,humanity and respect while they are!

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    • @Susan
      How does you sister know their stories to be true ?

      And your romantic idea of Ireland of a thousand welcomes is wonderfully Hollywood.

      What are you suggesting, that we let everyone with a hard-luck story in ?

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    • If you read the last part of my comment you would see that I dont think everybody with a hard luck story should be let stay here but they shouldnt be treated the way they are when they are here it’s disgraceful, is there something wrong with treating people well??and my sister is friends with these people why wouldn’t she believe them, thankfully she’s not as hard nosed or cynical as some of the people on here and takes people at their word,she’s no fool she knows some asylum seekers aren’t honest about their reasons for coming here but just because some of them aren’t doesn’t mean they should all be tarred with the same brush,and also if you take a look at half the tourism stuff sent out trying to get people to visit this country they have on it cead mile failte just wanted to point that out

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    • How do you know their stories are not true?

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  • Yes, let’s follow the UK example. That’s working so well, equality for all.

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  • Read about the robbers cave experiment details how people turn on one and other when resources are limited. Just to address two points . They cannot claim benefit unless they paid stamps and are habitual residents . Also they only get ten euro week towards toiletries . This info is all on citizens info,surprised a lot of people did not bother their holes looking. Scrap this faux nationalism . We are all human at the end of the day and need to pool together….

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    • Nothing faux about it. Economies are run as nations. Economics is about the allocation of scarce resources. It is only right for people who contribute tax to question how it is spent.

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    • If they are only entitled to ten euro week then how come they can all manage to afford cars?? If you happen to be passing mosney you will notice the car park full of cars. These all belong to the asylum seekers who reside there. There are an awful lot of naive people on the journal who think that every asylum seeker is genuine…

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  • Fantastic article! The “we must look after our own” mentality is incredibly sickening and dangerous – there’s no “us and them” I used to be one of “them” when I first came to this country and now suddenly I’m regarded as one of “us” since acquiring Irish citizenship. There’s no difference – I am still the same person – we are all part of the human family. Asylum seekers came here looking for our compassion and protection – let’s give it to them and treat them fairly as it could be the Irish who’ll need the help of another nation in the future. What goes around comes around!

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    • give them what , we have nothing left to give …

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    • Dil ,ive seen you man times on Midday and from what i understand you came from a very wealthy family so as such you where never one of “them” as you had your own means ,we are talking here about ppl who are contributing nothing to this state and costing 69million a year ,this is money that should be used to help our own ppl …by which i mean Irish ppl ,we did need the help of other countries Dil the difference being we are paying it back at a truly terrible cost to our country and ppl ,i think we need to treat Irish ppl fairly ,”what goes around comes around “maybe its time we got some donations back from all these countries we have been helping for decades then….but i wont hold my breath !

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    • aha..Marion..so its not race,,its money and class…we approach the core of the pre-human simian troop-think.

      Don’t hold your breath, hold your whisht. At least til you’ve factored in the emigration figures that DWARF our miniscule asylum-decoy from the white-collar criminal cartels creating our problems.

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    • Bleeding heart lefties seem to have all studied at the Loaves and Fishes school of economics. I know we are all human, but hardly a sane rationale to allow allcomers arrive unhindered and feed off our precious limited tax take. Enough pressure on it already if you care to read any newspaper.

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    • Bleedin boneheaded goosestep righties can’t see their real enemies cos King Rupert von Herod gives them a picture for their circle-jerk page three toss.
      What school of economics says these people cost us a fraction of the taxes dodged by the media baron absentee leeches running your tabloid tripe?

      Wanna talk economics?I’ll give a reading list goes back centuries. Includes the Manchester School of lassez-faire free marketeering brought us famine, and the Chicago Boys of Milton Freidman that spawned the current collapse. Also includes JK Galbraith’s ‘The Great Crash Of 1929’ and Adam Ferguson’s ‘When Money Dies’, the nightmare of Weimar hyper-inflation(back to the future, sunshine).

      Make your economic case, Winnie.

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    • Dil, an irish passport doesnt make you Irish, it just means you have citizenship but youre still not Irish.
      We are a tiny country and the irish will be a minority here within 20 years. 20% of the population are not irish and these people are having 25% of the babies.
      We opened our borders and let everyone in because no one wanted to be called racist. To meet irish people in the future, the rest of us are going to have to emigrate so Ireland will be left with the unskilled Irish, eastern europeans and asylum seekers.
      We wont have a tourist industry in 5 years because the tourists especially the British and the Americans are no longer meeting Irish or experiencing our irish hospitality.
      Ireland and the Irish are done. This country is f*cked.

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    • There are a few left on the Aran Islands,,otherwise its coast to coast Eastenders and the ManUer heap….

      Irish hospitality??
      You mean our industrialised hospitality industry?

      Most of the ‘Irish’ xenophobes ranting their shite on here never heard of Sean O’Riada, and despise both the Irish language and culture. I’ve met Hungarians and Japanese and Belgians speak fluent Gaeilge…I wonder if one poster here does.

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  • Damn immigants,carnt speek the langage,send em home the bleedin spongers taking our jobs,woman and drugssssssss yeaaaa

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  • meath is full of jackeen refugees, never thought id see the day when all you can hear is skanger accents on the busy ballivor street

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  • Shocking amount of ignorant, hateful, and bigoted comments on here this morning. Quite shameful really.

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  • possibly the story with largest amount of uninformed reaction ever on this site….

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    • EP 13/11/12 #

      Agreed tomy.. stories like this seem to bring out the worst kind of tripe ever in comments on here. Again, i have to question the monitoring of the comments though? I hope no young refugees or asylum seekers happen to come acoss this… In fact, i hope no young people happen to read it and form prejudiced or racist opinions based on the ill informed ramblings of the majority of comments here.

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    • Tommy C 13/11/12 #

      Yeah Tomy, €69,000,000 spent of provision of asylum services doesnt merit a reaction at all.

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    • tommy – if you read the story you might see that the author has noted the bad value for money.

      The system in Ireland is broken and the sad fact is that people spend YEARS in direct provision with children who don’t deserve to live in such conditions either.

      You’d see that bill come down a LOT if the system was fixed but the reality is that the system is poor.

      I’m all for saving money but not at the expense of children born and brought here into absolutely terrible conditions by parents who may or may not have a genuine reason to be seeking asylum. The sooner the cases are dealt with the sooner children get to have a life outside.

      It absolutely merits a reaction but the presumption of lies is not where energy should be targeted, it should be targeted at more speedy answers so that people can get on with their lives or be deported.

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  • So many haters here in Ireland… Sad…

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  • Most of the comments here so far are a disgrace. Can only blame the government so far in increasing this hatred for the practices they put in place. Most of the blame must now come down to people just being racist.

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  • Hi ,I’m an asylum seeker and completely disappointed with majority of comments here.how could you expect me to integrate to your society after reading these comments. I’ve been doing numbers of voluntary jobs since I came here and never thought how much you hate me guys.

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  • hey m an asylum seeker am really sad with the other comments anywere if we didnt need help we were not gona come here , we are here for help

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  • Look at all these comments above and explain extreme right isn’t alive and well in ireland!

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  • allan 14/11/12 #

    Damien Flinter; you are a legend, keep educating the ignorant Irish dunces.

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  • Do you think every black you see on the street are refugees?

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