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Dublin: 8 °C Thursday 23 May, 2013

Column: The Young and the Angry need to take themselves to task

Lisa McInerney is a fan of The Secret Millionaire reality TV show – but it has alerted her to a section of disillusioned First World youth who won’t take any blame for their actions.

Lisa McInerney

WE ALL HAVE our guilty pleasures, little visits into pop cultural wasteland that we’d rather our friends, family and that delightful dreamboat down the pub didn’t know about. For me, it’s The Secret Millionaire.

An hour-long documentary which occasionally borrows from the emotional propaganda of reality TV, The Secret Millionaire takes one fortunate citizen, gives him or her a new identity, and lets its subject loose in deprived area to identify worthy grassroots charities or individuals to help.

After a brief culture shock, a startling introduction to the considerable challenges faced by small charities, and often a poignant personal assessment of the subject’s own demons, our millionaire hero gives away tens of thousands of his or her own money. Cue very real tears of gratitude and a tug on the audience’s heartstrings so intense, we’re surprised not to hear them snap altogether. Perfect weepy television, and all for numerous good causes.

One of the most recent millionaires was a gentle chap named Bobby Dudani, some of whose businesses were damaged in the recent London riots, costing him hundreds of thousands of pounds. He went undercover in Croydon, the area most affected by the violence, where he donated to three charities that worked with young people – a steel drum band, a boxing club, and a motorcycle club – and also gave a substantial cheque to the community centre that housed two of the charities.

Bobby’s focus was clearly on charities that kept young people engaged in their communities and, consequently, out of trouble. He wasn’t angry about how the riots had affected him. He wanted to help.

“Angry Young Men have cottoned on to the fact that… they’ve now got everyone to blame but themselves”

One young man in particular caught his eye: a boorish, loudmouth yob called Alex who, once the cameras started rolling, openly threatened our philanthropic hero and said that as a business owner, Bobby had only himself to blame for any act of violence that was visited upon him. Alex didn’t have a job because of his criminal record, which was the fault of employers because they insisted on doing background checks and wouldn’t take a chance on him. Alex’s dad left when he was fourteen, so he got kicked out of school. It’s the one per cent, innit?

I’d like to say it was mind-boggling, but it was all too predictable. Angry Young Man is angry. Angry Young Men have cottoned on to the fact that society is searching for the reason we have angry young men, and they’ve now got everyone to blame but themselves.

I’m not suggesting that there aren’t complex reasons for disenfranchised, disillusioned First World youth. We know we have such citizens here, too, so this isn’t a UK-centric problem.

Ireland has her share of no-go areas, ‘problem’ communities, and petty criminal carry-on. Young men and women who don’t feel part of their own State, who don’t understand their role or responsibilities, who have no feeling of belonging or obligation to society as a whole – yes, they exist, and no, there’s no simple explanation.

There’s no doubt, too, that providing youth facilities and channelling energy into positive pursuits is hugely important, because we don’t develop socially completely independent of influence. Take a bunch of young people, ignore their needs and give them nothing to do and you’re asking for trouble – you’d be rolling in bonfires and empty cider cans before you could say “Here’s a euro; go buy yourself an ice-cream”.

“Many of our citizens, born into unfortunate circumstances, roll up their sleeves and just get on with bettering themselves”

But there’s a new tinge to disadvantage now, quietly shaped by access to information and the bombardment of advertising and lifestyle envy: entitlement.

Many of our citizens, born into unfortunate circumstances, roll up their sleeves and just get on with bettering themselves. Ireland’s population is in a better position in terms of social mobility than the UK’s; we didn’t even have a middle class until the Celtic Tiger put most un-Peig-like notions of holiday homes and Louboutins in everyone’s head, so our social strata remain relatively fluid. You can be born on a council estate in Leitrim and end up on the Amalfi coast with your supermodel girlfriend; as we say in Ireland, Who’s stopping yeh? Ours may not exactly be the American Dream, but we’re certainly not bound by a caste system, either.

So the ‘disgruntled underclass’ idea seems relatively new here. Characterised by a total lack of understanding how one’s destiny is largely in one’s own hands, and a sense of entitlement so expansive you could shelter an entire crew of intimidating hype-men under it, we now have more than our share of people who think the world owes them both a living and a solid excuse if and when they mess up and get their wrists slapped (or bound, as the case may be).

And while we can all agree that bad behaviour and chest-puffing bravado always comes from somewhere, and that we can’t just assume louts and wastrels will suddenly grow a conscience and become librarians, we can also claim entitlement to the feelings of weary irritation that such Angry Young Excuses provoke in us.

“No, it’s not the rest of the country’s fault”

Yes, it’s terrible that your mam and dad broke up when you were eleven. Yes, it’s completely unfair that you didn’t have any facilities in your community where you could hang out as a teen. No, it’s not the rest of the country’s fault.

Back to our Secret Millionaire. Keen to give Angry Young Alex a second chance and a sense of self-worth, Bobby created a job locally, and arranged to pay Alex’s wages for a year. Alex was momentarily humbled. So he grunted at the cameras, anyway, in between looking sullen and childishly uncomfortable. According to the Croydon Guardian, the job lasted six weeks before Alex was suspended for having a ‘disagreement’ with a colleague. When the paper phoned him for comment, he demanded a grand for his story, and swore and hung up when the paper said they couldn’t pay. No doubt that was everyone else’s fault but his own, too.

‘Society’ isn’t some sort of disconnected construct wafting about the ether over anyone’s head. It’s more than a concept – it’s something we’re all part of. We owe it to each other to look after those less fortunate within our society. And, in turn, we owe it to society not to be spoiled, crooked brats.

Read previous columns on TheJournal.ie by Lisa McInerney>

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Comments (110 Comments)

  • I am an angry young man because the journal won’t let up with the score app advert. If I wanted to download it, I would!

    Reply
    • Also – when I finally gave in to make it stop, it does little more than the toggle button for moving between publications on the main app anyway. Even though I didn’t want it in the first place I still expected more..

      Reply
  • No middle class until the Celtic tiger???? Nonsense.
    What about bankers, doctors, solicitors, academics, librarians, engineers……..they have existed in Ireland for centuries!

    Reply
  • Great article, the problem with many is that they take no responsibility for their actions. That the world owes them a free lunch because of their “social circumstances”. The reality is many can’t be bothered getting up off their holes and bettering themselves as they are being cushioned from reality by the state.

    Reply
    • **They** are being cushioned from reality??!!
      So the Blackrock school type existence is reality then? I see, shame they don’t know that.

      Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      That’s ignoring a hell of a lot of factors, there toorkeel. This is exactly the roadblock people face – everyone thinks everyone else is on an equal footing. They’re not.

      Reply
    • Nobody is saying we’re all on an equal footing. If you are born in unfortunate circumstances, you have to try harder to succeed. It’s not fair, but then life isn’t fair. These people aren’t even trying.

      Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      Here we go with the “these people”.

      And again, there’s a difference between life being unfair and being discriminated against. It’s “just life” that money is being pumped into wealthier areas while run-down areas are given no money, is it? It’s “just life” that down in the country people have to make do with mouldy schools and desease infested hospitals? That’s not life being unfair – that’s people making decisions that negatively effect certain groups of society.

      Reply
    • Yes, “they”. Those that blame everyone else for “the way they are”. It’s the fault of society that they can’t get a job, nobody loves them, they don’t have the latest iPhone. I don’t care, go out and do a course, no matter what it is. Better yourself. It will give you the confidence to go further and make a better life for yourself. Don’t expect everyone else to provide for you no matter what your caste or creed. Laziness isn’t confined to a particular class, its across the board, rich or poor.

      Reply
    • When it comes down to it, it’s survival of the fittest – you are fit, you don’t survive. Get yourself fit for life (would be my message to people born in unfrotunate situations). Plenty of rags-to-riches stories to use as inspiration. No excuses.

      Reply
    • *you aren’t fit (typo)

      Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      We don’t live in an equal or fair society, and that rags to riches thing is bullsh*t. Why should certain sections of society have to fight so much harder to get anywhere when other sections can sail through? While life is tough for everyone and everyone needs to learn to work hard to survive – it’s not the same as having a structure in place that actively keeps certain people down and not others. That structure is something we have control over therefore it’s our – society’s – problem to fix.

      The survival of the fittest attitude is a cop-out in this regard. Instead of letting people fall by the way side because we don’t want to admit that we have a problem in society, we should be trying to make it better. We prize ourselves on being fair and being able to protect the people in need in our society – we don’t let them crash and burn.

      There’s a distinct hint of classism in this whole thread which is why I’m bringing any of this up in the first place. Otherwise, I agree that people can’t expect to be handed things to them – we all need to work and contribute as best we can.

      Reply
    • That’s right, we don’t live in an equal or fair society. So deal with it. You could have been born in Somalia.

      Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      That’s exactly the attitude we can’t afford to have. Just because Somalia is worse than here, does that mean we can just sit back and ignore our problems? Does it give us a free pass? “Sure it may be bad, but it could be worse!” Nothing ever got achieved by that kind of thinking.

      And people wonder why Ireland’s so passive in the face of gross injustice. Someone complains about the state of the country, and people tell them to shut up because it could be worse. Great.

      Reply
    • censored 19/06/12 #

      The trouble with creating a straw man argument (as you did in your comment above Eleen) is that you’re arguing with a straw man. I don’t see where I said anything about ignoring our problems or telling people to shut up.

      Reply
    • Eleen 19/06/12 #

      I was talking about acknowledging that we don’t live in a fair society and that we should change things for the better, and pointing out that this article isn’t written very well and comes across as pretty insulting to a lot of people.

      You agreed we live in an unjust society and said “deal with it. You could have been born in Somalia.” Which just sounds like you mean “it could be worse, so don’t bother complaining.” If that’s not what you meant, fine then my mistake, but that’s how it comes across.

      Reply
    • ” If you are born in unfortunate circumstances, you have to try harder to succeed. It’s not fair, but then life isn’t fair.”

      That’s true, a lot of people have to work harder to get the same thing. But that’s not *right*

      But I want to live in a fair society. I think we/society/the government/the state should try to make things fair for people. If someone’s sick, we treat them. We should aim for “fair”.

      Reply
  • Scarr 18/06/12 #

    I believe that part of the problem with some young people is the lack of visible options. Many may have an attitude of ‘there’s no jobs so what’s the point’, that’s not stretching logic too far. A cure, in part, for this may be to teach entrepreneurialism in schools so young people can see that they really can control their destiny and they’re not dependent on getting a job that’s not there.

    Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      That’s a brilliant idea – I totally agree. We need more “hands on” people. I think – and this is mostly true – that people feel that so much is out of their control. That’s why we’ve got a lack of interest in politics, in activism and in entrepreneurship here: it just feels impossible to effect any change.

      Reply
  • Excellent article Lisa. Cue the bleeding hearts…

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    • What O’Reilly said…

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    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      Well, I dunno if I hadn’t had a chance in hell and a load of gobsh*tes came over to offer me a job on camera so that all the people watching could feel a little better and charitable after seeing poor little old me fall to my knees in praise that someone has helped me out – I’d do just the same: fleece them for all they got. If they want to see me dance for them, I’ll expect proper payment.

      There will always be lazy people and entitled people who blame others for their problems – that’s not something that just happens in disenfranchised areas. And yeah they should be taken to task over it. But the reason there are more angry young people in those areas, however, has more to do with the fact that “society” doesn’t give a sh*t about them. They haven’t learned how to get a job and keep it because society never gave them a chance to.

      Reply
    • mattoid 18/06/12 #

      In other words its everyone else’s fault but their own…

      Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      Well, sure. I’m sure that’s true about some people. The problem is that this article is written by someone who is basing their whole theory on one episode of a show. And it’s completely ignoring all the factors that would make it tough for a person who lives in a disenfranchised area to be able to be a part of society (not least start contributing to it). There’s a larger political context that’s being ignored here too.

      It’s basically just giving people a space to give out about other people AGAIN. We all love to point our fingers at others and criticize them for not doing things right. Makes us feel good, doesn’t it?

      Reply
    • @ Eleen – total rubbish what you are saying. If life throws you a hard ball, do your best to catch it. Don’t stand still and expect somebody to hand it to you. Society owes these people nothing. If they aren’t bothered, why should we?

      Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      Society owes everybody a right to a decent life. After that, I agree that people have to take up the responsibility. There’s a difference between life throwing you a hard ball and society actively discriminating against people based on where they live or their economic situation.

      Reply
    • Eleen, society owes no one anything! Its up to people to ‘make’ their society decent. My dad moved to Dublin when he was 14,hes 60 now and he has worked his backside off every single day. he got nothing handed to him ever. He got off his hole and went to work everyday, some days he worked 2 or 3 jobs and he instilled a great work ethic in us too. When we were able to, we worked! Im from tallaght so Ive seen the kind of people this article is about. Society owes people nothing, we owe society.

      Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      I get what you’re saying, but that’s not the same thing as what I’m talking about. When discrimination and injustice within our society negatively impacts on people, that’s wrong. Society owes every person a decent chance in life – a chance to make a good life for themselves. Together we make up a society which is aiming to be inclusive and which helps people in need – at least that’s the society I’m aiming for.

      If we’re going to let certain areas of society fall apart and then ostracise the people within them (like this article is hinting towards), then we have a problem. If we expect people to contribute to society, we have to treat people fairly. Nothing’s perfect, but this is a problem we can all address and help change.

      Reply
    • The vast majority of people in our society have that opportunity Eleen. This is unprecedented in history and is a unique privilege of living in Western Europe today. There’s a difference between entitlement and opportunity … and people have free will to make a choice.

      Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      That’s true, and I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else or in any other time in history.

      The fact remains that there are people struggling, and in recent times the wealth gap has increased enormously, we have even less funds to help people in disadvantaged areas, and we’re seeing a rise prejudice against all manner of people: those on social welfare, those in public sector jobs, and people who are well off too – everyone’s giving out about everybody.

      This article and the sentiment behind it isn’t really tackling any issue but just adding fuel to an already blazing fire. I agree that people should stop whining and start doing something constructive to help themselves out of a bad situation, I’m just not sure how pointing the finger like this will do any good.

      Reply
  • You hear people saying that society “owes” people a life.

    What do these people then owe society in return?

    Somewhere along the line someone has decided that “society” owes them a favour, that there is such a thing as a free lunch and there’s no shame in taking money from others and not giving something back in return.

    Such people should be disabused of such notions.

    Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      Agree.

      It’s just that mostly people are equating these kinds of people with a certain class, or a certain group of people. These kinds of people exist in all walks of society, it’s not just the ‘disgruntled underclass’.

      “So the ‘disgruntled underclass’ idea seems relatively new here. Characterised by a total lack of understanding how one’s destiny is largely in one’s own hands, and a sense of entitlement so expansive you could shelter an entire crew of intimidating hype-men under it, we now have more than our share of people who think the world owes them both a living and a solid excuse if and when they mess up and get their wrists slapped (or bound, as the case may be).”

      See? The article is assuming that it’s the “underclass” that’s the problem. I’ve seen these entitlement issues crop up in all walks of life. And to be honest, those “underclasses” have some legitimate points. Not to say there aren’t people using the “I never got nothin so I’m taking all I can get” attitude, but there’s a twinge of truth in that. We shouldn’t bow down to them, but we shouldn’t be ignoring the real problems behind that attitude by dismissing everybody who’s angry as being spongers.

      Society owes people a life if they in turn contribute to society. If there are people who have real barriers to being accepted into society, we should be fixing this instead of dwelling on negative stereotypes that serve to divide us further.

      Reply
  • bad article with little vision ..again the obvious has been ignored by another journalist

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  • …..all that just so you could vent your anger and label people ” spoiled, crooked brats”….pathetic…..

    Reply
  • Far more important than this holier and smarter than thou attitude is the sense of entitlement that the Bertie Aherns and Enda Kennys foist upon the society at large. Perhaps if the youth saw anything noble in their “betters” they would be less likely to become low end thugs and spongers. The healthcare system, student grants, job training and benefits that have a real impact on the young are being sucked up by the major pigs at the trough. Lisa should tell her secret millionaire pals to start setting a better example by exposing their friends misdeeds, rather than putting a few pennies back into good deeds that are widely broadcast to show how wonderful they are.
    At a time when everyone on this island is being ripped off by the bankers and their shills perhaps this writer might aim a little of her ire at the people causing a far larger mess for all of us!

    Reply
  • @LisaMcInerney: your article is a rant. You mention briefly that you understand there are reasons for disenfranchised and disillusioned youth. But that’s it. The rest of your piece is a bashing of young people who don’t behave as you think they should. You fail to explore those reasons for disillusionment etc. Content to point out the social awkwardness of one young man who didn’t know what you expected of him in front of the cameras and couldn’t hold down his job.
    These apparently rudimentary skills are something each of us learns from experience and guidance. If you lack the positive experiences in your life and the positive role models, then this behaviour is more of a norm than an exception.
    Maybe in the future you might resist the temptation to tabloid your views and explore in a little detail, the challenges that young people in contemporary society experience.

    Reply
    • Agree with @Alan,
      It’s disturbing how many people are giving her thumbs up when it’s so flawed. No middle class in Ireland before Celtic Tiger?!
      The longer we blame poverty on the poor, the bigger our drug and gang-war problems will get.

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    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      Completely agree – this article is ridiculous and insulting. It sounds to me like she’s watched a few episodes of Secret Millionaire and suddenly knows everything about the “disenfranchised youth”.

      That she states there was no middle-class before the Celtic Tiger just goes to show how blind she’s been to the social and economic problems those in disenfranchised areas have been suffering for so many years before then. This is another classic example of “get a hair cut and pull your bootstraps up, young man!” attitude. It’s just another slap in the face to the poor kids and young people who’ve been unlucky to be born in the wrong place.

      “You can be born on a council estate in Leitrim and end up on the Amalfi coast with your supermodel girlfriend; as we say in Ireland, Who’s stopping yeh?” – where are the studies to prove this? Was anybody at all interviewed to support this? Because, in my experience, people who dress a certain way, have certain accents and have certain addresses get hassle. They’re followed in shops in case they steal stuff, they get stopped and searched by the police a lot more, they’re looked down on in general. True it’s not as bad as it is in the UK, but it’s slowly getting there – especially with attitudes like the this being bandied around.

      It’s classic victim blaming – “many people who have it tough suck it up and make something of themselves, therefore if you don’t you’re being an entitled little b*tch”. Like Alan says – there’s a lot more you’d have to do to fix this problem. Just look at a place like Ballymun – they started a bit of the regeneration project (ie. they made some new houses) and that was it. There’s still plenty of the high rise flats littered around the place, and there is no where for the young people to go. People in the area work hard to provide education and childcare facilities to help, but they’re getting next to nothing from the government. My aunt worked in the Axis centre there teaching literacy and the building is in one of the towers. She had to walk up the dark stairs past the junkies to get to the school room and the flat above it was a crack den.

      They’re being completely ignored by “society” and you’re waltzing in there to tell them what they should be doing? You’re going to tell them they should be grateful and get on with it? Horrible.

      Reply
    • Well said Eleen.
      I guess some people’s life experience has been so privileged that they just can’t empathise with a life of oppressive poverty. To me that is a bigger problem than the poverty itself, as it is the avenue for it’s continuation. It means that those who could lend support to positive change, instead advocate the negative status quo or a worsening of the situation.
      Have people not sussed the reason heroine is so prevalent in areas full of hopeless & decay?

      Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      Exactly.

      This article and the comments just prove how unwilling people are to give others a chance and help out, and shows how much people just like to give out. No wonder the country is the way it is…

      Reply
  • From what I can make from all this is that this society is made up of givers and takers . The takers no matter which part of society they come from feel entitled and will keep taking from the pot until there is nothing left ,when there is nothing left from that particular pot they will move on to the next one.. Meanwhile the givers will keep trying to provide for society trying to provide a safe and functional place to live and breathe.We have found ourselves living in a multi class society ,this multi class society has been created to keep the people at the top of this system rich and powerful while the rest of the classes keep bickering and fighting amongst themselves.. People will work hard and try to better their lives and provide for their families and do the best they can while others will find reasons to say they are entitled . It is not a fair system but it looks like this is what we have to live with until something radically changes..

    Reply
  • The Celtic Dream, eh? A rising tide will lift all boats?
    It just doesn’t really bare out in reality, does it? The massive yachts get lifted far higher than the rowing boats, and when the tide recedes they fall less steeply – or even continue to rise.

    Yes, it’s obviously **possible** to get out of poverty stricken surroundings and family, but it’s far more difficult than coming from even a bad middle class home. The difference are things like Aunts and Uncles, Mother & Father having & valuing education – not always the case in impoverished areas; relatives having connections & money also has a big part to play with middle class getting or staying ahead.

    While some Angry Young Men throw their hands up far too easily, it is very much a failing of society that creates them. We are talking about generations of deprivation and impoverishment. I imagine places full of cement like Ballymun, Finglas, etc., are tough places to be, as you can feel, see and smell the oppression. People in these areas are extremely disadvantaged when compared to say Rathfarnham (where I grew up).

    Do we really want to head of a society like the US – the Land Of The Free with highest per-capita prison population?

    Reply
  • Eleen 18/06/12 #

    This is a terrible article, Lisa. Please think a little harder next time you write it. All the green thumbs and supportive comments make it clear just how tough it is for the disenfranchised youth to get anything from society at all.

    If you grow up in an area that’s been neglected and left to rot, in which families have been broken down thanks to the economic and social problems, where drugs have filtered in and ruined even more lives, and where the governments constantly fail to offer anything – not even education or support – of course you’re not going to know what it is to make something of yourself. Who are you going to look to for inspiration or guidance? Why are you going to trust a system that’s beaten you down since you were born? Of course you’re going to be angry. Especially when people with obvious privileges come in and start telling you what to do and giving out to you.

    And that’s OUR failing as a society. WE’RE not doing the work we should be doing. Do some research into this problem before you start condemning people.

    Reply
  • Quite a disparaging article, using terrible language ‘yobs’ etc, reinforcing many negative stereotypes of young people and failing to look at the bigger picture. If Alex has never had a job, and was an early school leaver, then it is likely he hasn’t had the opportunity to work on or training in, personal, social or work skills to enable him to make the transition from long term unemployment to full time employment. This would always have been a bumpy path and was not well taught out. Very surprised at you Lisa for writing this article.

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    • He was given a job for a year but got his marching orders for getting into a bit of aggro. It’s there in the penultimate paragraph.

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    • Which is my point…he was given his marching orders after six weeks. Learning work skills is a process, which takes a lot longer then six weeks, and a lot of support and training.

      Ps sorry about posting this comment three times, I was on my phone and thought it wasn’t sending.

      Reply
    • Learning work skills is not a difficult thing to master either. Support and training??!!! Did you expect the dude to hold his hand and explain why he has to be nice to people?!

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    • Grainne 18/06/12 #

      Any skills, however basic they seem to be to you, were still taught to you, you learnt them through experience, guidance, making mistakes and learning from them. Please don’t pretend you walked into your first job at whatever age and never once made a mistake. Most jobs give supervision and mentoring when a person first begins. Alex may not have received training and did leave school early, therefore learning these skills was a delayed process, and the entire experience was probably quite overwhelming and frustrating for him. I think a bit more understanding of what could have been going on in the bigger picture and being less judgmental is called for here.

      Reply
    • Are you deeming “not getting into fights with co-workers” a work skill?

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    • Of course I made a mistake. I mixed up orders and pushed the wrong button on the till. I didn’t give my co-workers any hassle or abuse and I was certainly never suspended. I was also 15 when I got my first job, not much older than Angry Young Alex here but I still knew my manners and knew that getting into a fight is not a great start to a job which I was lucky to have in the first place.
      ‘Learning these skills was a delayed process??’ Not starting an argument is not a skill. It’s very, very basic manners. Alex should take responsibility for his aggression. Not getting into a fight does not count as a skill, nor will it ever.

      Reply
    • And who taught you those manners?

      Reply
  • Paul 18/06/12 #

    More attacks on the poor. I’m surprised judging by your usual articles! The media should be calling out the real culprits of doom and not some kids who have it stacked against them from day one.

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  • Society to blame? Not one mention of parenting, morals. That’s where social responsibilty starts – in the home. As individuals, we all have choices…

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    • Agreed. if anything, the Secret Millionaire should be a lesson to everyone. -Use contraception.

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    • We don’t all start out with happy families O’Reilly, perhaps you were fortunate.
      What happens if our parents or home fails?
      You appear to be suggesting that “morals” start in the home without any failsafe.
      These problems are often generational. Their parents’ parents may have been let down by society and home too. Are suggesting we just let it continue?

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    • @Ciara: Good woman. Same one that was harming on about forced abortion in China and overcrowding? Your own parents must be very proud.

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    • There are numeous ways lots of people feel disillusioned by the state. Access to legal system is one way. If you’re a posh d4 student and someone implies you didn’t pay a taxi fare you can get injunctions. Lots of people are unable to afford a lawyer for their legal needs and basically have to suck up and take it. Why not socialise the legal system so everyone gets the same?

      Funny how the state gives the rich things via legally enforcable contracts (like pensions for civil servants, pensions for TDs, contracts for bonuses for bankers) whereas the common person on benefits/dole/pension doesn’t have a legally binding contract and those rates can go up and down easily. Why not increase the “common good” standard for contracts? Or give everyone in the state a contract (with the state) for benefits they get now? Make changing the dole as easy (or hard!) as changing Bertie’s pension or the pay of hospital consultants?

      Funny how rich people are able to set up companies that can not pay tax or vat and hence they personally are not liable, and yet poor people don’t do that as much. Why not make incorporation easier for more people?

      Officially there is one rule for all. In Reality there is one rule for the rich, another for the poor.

      Reply
  • Damocles 18/06/12 #

    “people are equating these kinds of people with a certain class, or a certain group of people”, Where and from what classes do you think the vast majority of such people derive?

    Reply
    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      That’s not up to me to say – I’ve never done any studies on it. I just know from my own experience that people who feel entitled to things without working for them exist everywhere.

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  • How many young disenfranchised people did you interview when researching this article? How many do you know? None is the answer and lazy journalism like this, pointing the finger at the unfortunate majority rather than the super rich minority continues to divide and conquer people. Rubbish.

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    • Eleen 19/06/12 #

      We’re all bickering on here about each other and not looking at the bigger picture. The longer I live the more I realise how many people will defend this current system we live under – in which ordinary decent people have to fight and scrape to get any sort of decent living and it’s seen as something noble instead of terribly corrupt.

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  • The level of class hatred on this thread is sickening.

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    • Eleen 19/06/12 #

      I read recently about a family in England – part of the “underclass” with “too many kids” – who’s house went on fire and certain papers were hinting that it wasn’t such a BIG tragedy because…well, they were on social welfare and had so many kids…so we shouldn’t feel so sorry for them.

      I’m worried that with the current climate in Ireland, and articles like this, we’ll start to allow those kinds of opinions to grow too. Scary.

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  • Society is something we’re all part of? No. It’s not. Society is a well-managed and policed system by and for a privileged class, as this sexcellent article points this out.

    As PH Pearse put it: “Beware of the thing that is coming. Beware of the risen people who will take what you would not give.”

    Sound man Pearse.

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  • Why should they care? They have absolutely zero to lose! And they learned entitlement from the people who are raking in the money whilst reducing benefits.

    There’s no point standing on a holy hill and preaching that it’s up to them to get up there too while there are people pushing them down at ever turn. It’s a very easy, comfortable middle-class attitude to have, though, so enjoy it.

    And it takes more than throwing a few quid to hand a job to someone who has been unemployable. That person needs life skills too, and probably counselling. It’s like saying, it’s a shame you can’t swim, paying for a swimming pool membership and then chucking them in the pool.

    The “entitlement” that young, poor people feel is not what’s bringing down the world. It’s the callous attitude of the “haves” who believe they somehow magicked their way to comfort and holiday homes with no help or affirmation from anyone.

    If these people weren’t angry? I’d question their sanity.

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    • So it’s everyone’s fault but their own….

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    • It’s the fault of the people who don’t offer a living wage, and therefore make children grow up in squalour and depression even if their parents are working. It’s the fault of the people who won’t hire someone with their accent for a “customer-facing role”. It’s the fault of schools that expect nothing from “those kids”.

      We’re telling these people to behave in a way that suggests they have excellent mental health and great self esteem while we simultaneously write articles about how shit they are and how if they were awesome like we are, there would be no problems.

      It’s not that easy for everyone, but it is if you’re white, middle class and completely oblivious.

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    • Ah, I can’t understand the plight of the common man because of my middle class upbringing…. I’d make some broad, obvious and unoriginal statements to back my points up, but I can see you’ve already got that covered.

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    • Of course you can. You have to try, though. But I’m pretty sure it’s only the poor who are required to put in an effort. The rest of us are *actually* entitled.

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    • There will always be a lower, middle and upper class. It is what makes the world go around. As an example, if it wasn’t for the wealthy business owner, the middle class office manager would not have a job, and the lower class office cleaner would not have a job.

      Everyone *I think* should aim to be something better. Generally this means earning more money, getting the more powerful position in work and so on. I can’t understand the mentality of being happy with your social welfare and what the government hand out to you. The idea of welfare is to help people in their time of need, be that through unemployment or illness or whatever. Welfare is impossible to maintain if there are people making a living off it. Its not supposed to be easy because then why would anyone work.

      I know its all funny and a laugh seeing Irish fans over in Poland with signs saying their on the dole and having a great time supporting the lads but in all seriousness at the end of the day, it annoys the hell out of me. I can’t afford to go to over there from an expense point of view and getting time off work. I don’t care if they saved 4 months dole to be able to afford it, or that they can’t afford to drink in the pubs. It’s my taxes that are paying for them, and everyone else who works.

      Its the middle class who struggle most in my opinion. If they have jobs, they are working bloody hard to pay for their mortgage, child care, food even. The middle class don’t get hand outs as easily, their children can’t apply for grants for college as easily, they are the ones that just get on with it.

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    • @King Olaf So really what you are saying is that the working class should be grateful that the upper class throw them a few euro for exploiting their labour? Sure, those proles dont know how good they have it, right?

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    • @Eamon- Ok then, you tell me…how much should you be paid for the job you do? What are you worth?

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  • mcbab 18/06/12 #

    Really good article. The sense of entitlement some people have seems to be an entitlement to a wide screen TV , iPhone , designer bags etc that the rest of us have to work for if we want them and in many cases we don’t!

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  • Damocles 18/06/12 #

    I sometimes wonder if the Easter uprising would ever have happened in this day and age.

    And I’m pretty sure there’d have to be a feasability study first and it wouldn’t get past that stage.

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  • that’s a load of bull, there are idiots everywhere. Chancers are chancers they’ll always try their luck. It’s too easy to push that angle, there are plenty of legitimate concerns relating to these areas, as the secret millionaire regularly highlights – many of these communities get NO support. You choose to highlight the minority and paint the rest in the same light. rubbish article IMO.

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    • Seriously. Has the writer here even heard of politicians and property developers? Why should we hold the poorest in our society to a standard the richest don’t live up to?

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    • You appear to be pushing for a standard-free society, Jacqui.

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    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      I can’t get my head around how many people here are red thumbing you, Paul. It’s so easy to blame people for their problems instead of seeing the wider issues involved because, to be honest, none of us want to feel like we’re privileged and none of us want to actually do the work it’d take to actually fix the problem.

      And if we’re going to lead by example then HAH! Great example we’re setting when our whole system is riddled with corruption.

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    • I’m not looking for a standards-free society — I just want a society where we’re all held to the same standard. You can’t say that the angry young people are wrong when the Mick Wallaces of the world are running around, running up massive debts, living in luxury and nobody is doing anything about it. I’m angry. I work. I pay taxes. And yes, I’d prefer that angry young people were better able to pick themselves up and sort out their lives, but it’s not that simple and I don’t understand why people can’t understand that.

      I grew up middle class. I own that privilege that I have a good education and I’m well spoken. I have acceptable manners. Applying for a job is relatively easy for me. The kind of people who do hiring are often much like me, so it’s easy. I’m not missing any teeth, I don’t have scars on my face. I don’t have an accent that immediately gives away generations of poverty.

      Let’s be angry at the right people. When we sort out the rich people who take liberties with much more of our tax money than the poor do, maybe we can start looking at why accountability isn’t even a concept in Ireland unless you’re poor.

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    • Jacqui are you saying “Let’s sort things out then do something”? What’s wrong with “Let’s sort things out by doing something”?

      By taking those standards and applying them to everyone, rich and poor alike, change could be achieved. By sitting back and waiting for something to be sorted out nothing will ever happen.

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  • The article fails to recognise chronic youth unemployment as a barrier to progressing yourself in this country and as such is seriously flawed

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    • That’s only partially true. Im 25 and I was unemployed from the age of 22 to 24. I always found that the majority of my peers said that it was the.governments fault or bankers or someone that we could not get jobs. Yet they had no problem taking dole money and using it for a good time, rather than spending it on a course to get yourself a job. Best example is a friend who signed on recently. He got his dole back dated a couple of months but spent it all immediately on a new tattoo and an iphone! It’s still everyone else’s fault he has no job though,

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    • There are plenty of jobs in Dublin. Just walk down any street and you will see more than one help wanted sign. My friends in the catering business tell me that they cannot fill jobs because candidates want to be paid under the table or work 19 hours a week so they can retain some or all of their payments. Sure, wouldn’t we all like that?

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    • @Michael – This is very true as well. I remember before I landed myself a permanent job in June, I was working for a security company. The guy who was hiring was really unsure about hiring me because he had a good few young people who wouldn’t take the job because even though it was part time, he wanted them working 25+ hours per week, so it would affect their dole claims. I don’t get this way of thinking. Like the majority of jobs that I have had were pretty crap to be honest but the feeling of getting up for work and having a something to do is worth it.

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    • Olaf why do you think you have the get up and go to get up and go while your peers clearly don’t?

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    • @Damocles – I developed this frame of mind when I realised that no one was going to be able to truly get me out of this situation other than myself. I didn’t cause the problems, true, but still no one was doing anything to improve the situation. Politicians are full of talk and no action, government bodies such as FAS aren’t interested in me because I am too middle class, and my parents have their own problems. The only person that could help me at the end of the day was myself. So nearly every cent of my dole money went into getting myself skills that could lead to a job. I appreciate the money I got while on welfare, but I am damn sure I never want to go back. It might seem like a bit of an idealised notion, but I am happy in the knowledge that I can pay my taxes now and maybe some of it is helping some other person get on the right track.

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    • Olaf, while I’m sure you didn’t expect a sort of Spanish Inquisition (nobody, etc) it’s a point worth pursuing.

      Despite being from a similar background to your mates (presumably, most people are) you didn’t think that that the state is a giant piggy bank which will give you money, unlike your pal iPhone boy, and you realise that the world doesn’t owe you a living.

      It’d be interesting to find out why so that this can be relayed to iPhone boy and his ilk so that more young people are willing to drag themselves out into the working world.

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    • @Damocles – I’m probably going to get a whole load of red thumbs now but I don’t mean to be insulting at all. It is just how I felt about myself at the time.

      I felt ashamed and despised myself for allowing myself to end up in the situation where I was on the dole. I hated having to go over to the welfare office, with my head down because I didn’t want people to know I was down on my luck.

      As regards my friends, they view things differently to me in general. The social welfare was money given to me by the state to invest in myself. As a young unemployable single 20 something who lived at home, you only had a limited number of things to spend your dole on. Drink, clothes, entertainment or education. I chose education because I want to be well paid when I’m older and not want for anything. I sacrifice a bit now to be rewarded later.

      I viewed the money that I got off the state as money for me to invest in myself. It was given to me by hard working tax payers, like my parents. My mate on the other hand views it as a wage from the government almost. Its their fault along with the rich bankers that he can’t get a job.Its like its compensation or something for the errors which they made.

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    • @ Gingerman – this is a cop-out. There is work out there if you are willing and good enough to do it.

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  • Very disparaging article, using terrible language ‘yobs’ etc, reinforcing many negative stereotypes of young people and failing to look at the bigger picture. If Alex has never had a job, and was an early school leaver, then it is likely he hasn’t had the opportunity to work on or training in, personal, social or work skills to enable him to make the transition from long term unemployment to full time employment. This would always have been a bumpy path and was not well taught out. Very surprised at your tone in this article Lisa.

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  • Grainne 18/06/12 #

    Very disparaging article, using terrible language ‘yobs’ etc, reinforcing many negative stereotypes of young people and failing to look at the bigger picture. If Alex has never had a job, and was an early school leaver, then it is likely he hasn’t had the opportunity to work on or training in, personal, social or work skills to enable him to make the transition from long term unemployment to full time employment. This would always have been a bumpy path and was not well taught out. Very surprised at the tone of this article.

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    • Grainne stop posting the same comments. Also, read the article. Alex was given a job, despite a criminal record and no qualifications and he blew it anyway. If he gave a toss about bettering his life, he would have recognised that job for what it was and held onto it with both hands.

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    • @Karen
      FYI: The Journal is often flaky – sometimes doesn’t show that you’ve posted, which results in multiple posts.

      I agree with Grainne, it’s not a simple issue. Yer man Alex obviously has a lot of issues resulting from a mix of lack of education, deprivation, etc – not to mention bereavement. I guess the feeling is one of being an expendable part of the population, as opposed to a valued one….. That tends to make people very angry.
      We need to imagine the entire context of his life in order to appreciate where he’s coming from.

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    • He’s never given anything to society so why should he be valued?

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    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      Perhaps because he’s never been given a chance to?

      Jesus…listen to what you’re saying. He shouldn’t be valued because you’ve decided he’s a waste of space? So how do you think that type of attitude is going to solve anything?

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    • You listen to what you’re saying.

      The bloke was given a chance to give back and decided to have what sounded like a slapfest during working hours. I didn’t decide that he’s a waste of space at all – where did I say that?

      People have a choice whether they want to become part of society of whether they’d prefer to duck out. These choices are harder or easier depending on whereabouts on the social scale you’re born. Those towards the upper end would almost certainly have doors opened for them that wouldn’t for others, especially those at the bottom, that’s life. But everybody has to put in in order to get something out of life. Just because a small cadre of bankers and developers decide to act amorally that shouldn’t give the rest of society carte blanche to act according, as Jacqui appears to inanely espouse up there somewhere. That’s a cop-out. Personal responsibility is something that’s evaporating in this country, and it’s difficult to pinpoint exactly where the problem stems from: honourlessness in the political classes? corruption in the financial sectors? Overgenerous social welfare system? Job-for-life public sector cushy numbers? By all mean champion your own laudable approach to solving society’s ills but at some stage everyone needs to look in the mirror and take responsibility for their own situation. Society, bottom to top, would be a whole lot better if everyone did.

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    • Eleen 18/06/12 #

      What you’re saying now is much more just and fair. I agree, I think we do have an issue with personal responsibility in this country and we’ve a terrible culture here of pointing our fingers at everybody else.

      But that’s the problem with this article too. It’s constructing a whole argument against a group of people based on an episode of a television show. And it’s basically giving us all a space to point our fingers and complain about people again – without really looking at the issues involved. We’re all guilty of playing the “point-the-fingers” game and it gets us nowhere. Public sector workers vs private sector workers, unemployed people vs employed people…jesus can’t we all just stop and try to work together for once?

      And the main problem i have with your argument is this: “People have a choice whether they want to become part of society of whether they’d prefer to duck out”. Some people DON’T have a choice – some people are excluded from society from the start due to their economic situation or where they live. That’s a fact. I lived in Ballymun for many years and have family there – and there is NOTHING for them there. Those good people who live there and work day and night to provide services to their community (childcare, education, counselling) get f*ck all funding from the government. And no one gives a sh*t. I’ve seen people avoid and jeer people from Ballymun simply because of the way they talk or dress, and they’re ashamed to tell people where they’re from. Others simply get angry and they have a right to be, really, when they’re being treated this way.

      And here we are having a go at them, judging their lives without bringing all the factors into play.

      Sure, there are wasters and idiots there as much as there is anywhere else in society. But we can’t use them as examples to condemn a whole group of people, and we can’t just dismiss everyone who is young and angry as being a waster because nine times out of ten, that waster had the potential to be someone great and was never given the chance.

      Reply
  • “Society owes everybody a right to a decent life”… Wrong, wrong, wrong. This sense of entitlement is infuriating to me. Society does not owe anybody anything, whatever you get in this world has to be fought for, has to be gained through sheer persistence and desire. My blood is boiling just reading these ridiculous comments.

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    • Eleen 19/06/12 #

      I’m guessing you assume we mean that people should just have things handed to them? That’s not what I meant anyway.

      Life itself is never perfect, but we can strive to make our society as perfect as possible – starting with an end to prejudice and discrimination. When I said “society owes everybody a right to a decent life” I meant that people everywhere should have the chance to contribute – free of the barriers we put up for them. To make a decent life, every person has to work hard and struggle – but some people have to struggle harder due to factors that we, as a society, control.

      We should be aiming for a fairer society – one that does give everybody the right to make a decent life for themselves.

      Reply
  • Very good artical and agree in most but ur writing as a journalist with editor in mind,seen it all growing up,if u didnt do drugs u went community centres,if voluteer didnt abuse u the priest brought u out,if priest didnt abuse u school bullies got u,if that didnt get u,u own anger did and hate for the system…its called % all the time and some luck.

    Reply

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