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Dublin: 9 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013

Column: We should be supporting our jobless thousands, not punishing them

Our focus should be making Ireland the best small country in the world to be unemployed, says Tom Boland.

Tom Boland

AS THE FORTHCOMING budget looms, it is tempting to speculate on whether or not the government will reduce basic job-seekers benefit, or perhaps announce more targeted social welfare cuts. However, what is already clear is the general direction of government policy around social welfare. And though it will no doubt save money, it is a story that cannot be described simply in terms of balance-sheet figures.

Back in 2005, government policy was broadly in support of a Developmental Welfare State as outlined by the National Economic and Social Council. This model is copied from the Dutch and Danish and seeks to support different individuals in different circumstances (with children, in part-time employment, retiring and so on), while also emphasising training and education for those seeking work.

This year marked a decisive shift in policy with the emergence of the Pathways to Work document, which broadly follows the UK and Australian models of social welfare provision. Exactly what this shift means can be discerned from the name of the new National Entitlements and Employment Service: entitlements and employment are explicitly linked. Benefits will be paid in new Intreo offices, which are a one-stop-shop for making claims and being made ‘job-ready’. Earlier this autumn 900 people were reported to have had their benefits reduced for ‘failing to engage’ with the system.

Failing to engage

Such a policy seeps in much more insidiously than headline cuts. What ‘failing to engage’ with the system means is a lot more nebulous than an overall cut. And the monetary amount of a social-welfare payment is not the whole story: the conditions under which it is given out are also important.

But before we continue, let us clarify one thing: Unemployment is a mass economic problem, not an individual failing. Only a minuscule fraction of those ‘on the dole’ wish to be there. During the Celtic Tiger, only 0.7 per cent of people were unemployed for over a year. In real numbers that is under 30,000 people. And even these cannot be presumed to be the ‘scroungers’ or ‘sponges’ which haunt our imagination. I myself was unemployed from 2006 to 2008. The half a million on the dole or on training courses are people who want to work.

Pathways to Work sets out a series of steps to deal with people who are unemployed. These include the assignment of a specific case-worker to oversee the job-seeking efforts of the unemployed ‘clients’, participation in mandatory group engagement and individual interviews. The ‘client’ is assessed, directed and reminded of their obligation to seek and accept ‘suitable’ work. If they do not, their benefits may be reduced.

Low quality jobs

In terms of moving people off the dole queue, this system is effective. By the increased surveillance and pressure on benefit claimants, more people will be forced into low quality jobs. So what? What this means is that employers who offer low pay for work in poor conditions are aided by pressure from the state; most ironically by the Department of Social Protection – and in the UK and Australian example it also could be private companies.

Furthermore, there are half a million on the dole, but very few opportunities. Hence, thousands of people pursue jobs which they are mathematically unlikely to get. So what? The claimant must pursue constant rejection – even acknowledgement of applications is rare – a task that is dispiriting, and places the blame for joblessness on individual shoulders. It is a Sisyphean search for a four-leafed clover.

Look at it from the point of view of the job-seeker. The new system explicitly contractualises benefits, so that they only deserve social welfare if they are actively seeking work. They must constantly seek for something that is unlikely to occur, and show evidence of this in order to go on living. Sociological research in the UK and Australia links this to increased stress, poor quality of life and depression. Another consequence in Ireland will be higher emigration.

Alternatives

That the government must save money somewhere is not something I wish to discuss at length here. Two better ways are defaulting on the bank debt and introducing a higher tax band.

Weighing the lives of those who have lost their jobs in terms of a balance sheet is not neutral realism. It is to surrender to a stark vision of a world governed by nothing but economic forces. The government strategy is premised on the economic calculus of getting the long-term unemployed ‘back to work’ because they lose skills, are not ‘job-ready’ and therefore drain resources rather than stoke growth. Similarly, the strategy is to favour full-time over part-time work, to maximise production and spending – a direct consequence of this is that part-time work will be calculated against the dole on the basis of a five day rather than six day working week from January first.

However, criticism is easy to dismiss with the reply ‘there is no alternative’ (‘in the reality of the situation we find ourselves in’). Therefore, I would make several concrete suggestions.

Firstly, far more people want to work than to shirk. Therefore the resources of monitoring Pathways to Work, including case workers, special advisors and so on, would be far better expended in dynamic public services, for instance, funding the arts would be more economically beneficial, as it benefits the local economy and boosts tourism, and national morale. The Social Welfare system should revert to giving benefits to everyone who needs them, irrespective of ‘engaging with the system’.

Secondly, part-time work should be positively encouraged and favoured by the welfare system. Part-time work allows a better life balance, so that people can care for their children, their community, and their elders. Where society steps in, the state doesn’t have to provide services. In addition, employment law should be altered to allow employees to job-share easily, with similar results.

Thirdly, the government could incrementally reduce the length of the working week. When the French did this, productivity went up. The overall effect can be greater numbers in employment overall. However, the most important thing is not success in the great game of economics. It is how we treat each other.

There will be definite human consequences to this shift in policy. I think the challenge is for us is to make Ireland the best country in the world to be unemployed.

Tom Boland Lectures in Sociology at WIT and is co-ordinator of the Waterford Unemployment Experiences Research Collaborative.

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Comments (87 Comments)

  • Husband got temporary jobs to keep his mental health going cause money wise we were worse than on the dole! And every time the job finish it’s the same story : the 2 women in welfare office make you feel crap by being rude! The paper work is unreal! The husband morale shoot down! No wonder people take their own life! You are made to feel like you’re a weight to society! And when you see some people that think that all jobseekers don’t want to work!!!!! Hope it doesn’t happen to them!

    Reply
    • The people in the dole offices are the most belittling people in the country thankfully ive never had to deal with them but ive heard so many horror stories

      Reply
    • The Department of Social Persecution

      Reply
    • Everyone is aware that the vast majority of people on social welfare aren’t there by choice and would prefer to be out earning a living by their own hard work.

      However, the author seems to have a glowing picture of ALL social welfare recipients… Despite acknowledging that a ‘minuscule’ (which I don’t agree with) number have no intention of looking for a job the government is then chastised for reducing, not canceling, the welfare payments of a mere 900 people who have demonstrated no willingness to seek employment or further training.

      If someone genuinely doesn’t want to work for a living then stop paying them my taxes!

      Reply
    • Winston, Tbf the stats don’t lie. During the boom years when there was work, everyone was willing to work by a miniscule number.

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  • I’m all in favour of a social conscience and social responsibility; but it will take a big shift in Government attitudes to get people back to work. Cutting the working hours so we can all share in the equal misery, is no real answer, but giving those tax compliment self employed access to welfare and support would . .Having thought all summer as to how to get Ireland working again, imagine what would happen if you diverted the 2 billion spent on Gov Agencies, (ie enterprise Ireland, FAS etc ) and passed this on directly to new business start ups? Or indeed used this money to fund ways of producing the 780 million spent each year on importing foods we easily could produce here. Even re-structuring the 2.5 billion the Government spend in the last five years on contracts given to overseas companies – a simple re-wording would keep that money in our economy. If your interested download Sli Nios Fearr Enterprise Initiatives from the website. And this is not ‘all-talk’, because myself and a few other have just set up in Limerick to start producing for the home market – and of course we will be creating much needed employment . . more than Shannon developments could for their 80million wage bill. We can get this country working again, but we need far more creative people in government to start with.

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    • I agree with you Martin, Fas is an out-of-date Quango and it doesn’t train to reflect market demands. Either Privatise Fas or have the VEC take it over alongside IBEC, they’ll train in the right areas and reflect demand. We are just training for export, what a waste of Taxpayers money and doen’t hold politicians to account again. I think, Employers should be helped and in return, train people in the area and it’ll help them get a job in that sector!

      Reply
  • Interesting ideas. The opportunity for a person to take on part time or short term employment needs to be encouraged and made very possible in what ever system is brought in.
    Ireland will be suffering the cost of the mental and physical damage being done to the health of the nation for decades as a result of the mismanagement of this unemployment crisis. The government can not create jobs ( election promises bull shite) but they should be making it easier for companies to do it and making it easier for individuals to take up these jobs.

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  • A good Article. I am one of the fortunate ones in this country that has a job. Some tell me I’d be better off on the dole, that is not true I might have a bit more spare change in my pocket but as an example to my kids and mental well-being I am certainly in a better position than those who are on the dole.
    Fact of the matter is that the civil service needs to be re organised in this country and that would help to speed up services and give a more value for money. Cuts are not what is needed, a change in mentality of entitlement is needed, not only those receiving benefits but those in office and the untouchable civil service.
    I am not worried if my tax money is carrying a few dole scroungers and wasters they will always be there, I’m far more worried about carrying the incompetence of the government (mass unemployment) and overpaid civil servants and their unearned pensions.
    I also would issue a ban on all Government ministers holding high positions in the civil service and banking sectors when receiving government pensions for at least 10 years after leaving office.

    Reply
  • I know people offered work and turned it down because the hours didn’t suit them. There are a lot of genuine decent people looking for work that can’t find it, but there’s a lot of laziness out there also…

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  • Totally agree with the above article. There are lots of situations where being hounded by social welfare to continually apply for unsuitable jobs you have no chance of getting is an active hindrance to the person actually finding work they are qualified for, which may be rarer and require a lot more research and unpaid preparatory work to get.

    I’m thinking here of academic work like the author has, which requires publishing research, which would be a much better use of an out of work academic’s time to make themselves employable than applying for jobs in Supermacs to tick boxes for social welfare.

    From personal experience, I know that it’s very hard to get low paid jobs once you are professionally qualified to do something else because employers know you will only be seeing it as a stopgap and you don’t have enough experience, whereas they want someone who sees it as a career and has years of experience.

    Also as you get older and more settled in a particular career track, changing out of it becomes a lot more difficult as all your experience is in that one area – which is why some of the free retraining schemes provided by the government are a good idea i.e. the ones that actually give you useful skills in area there are jobs, rather than the ones that are just there to massage the unemployment figures.

    Another scam is jobbridge, where working full-time for 50 quid a week in an ‘internship’ is going to leave you with hardly any time to look for a real job.

    Reply
    • Elbbit 18/11/12 #

      i can see the point your trying to make but if the job your qualified isnt easy to find why should other tax payers fund your prep work, should you find it. many people here work low paid jobs and study evening weekends for qualifications. Sounds to me like you just dont want to work

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    • i hate irish employers, they’re greedy sell outs exploiting the foreign market. sure you’re at nothing, undercut and you’re disrespected, walked on, cos you’re desperate. they win, their foreign workers win, you lose.
      if there was no pool of cheaper labour for them, it would be the greatest kick in the hole they ever got, then they would have to pay you what you’re worth in order to live in your own country, buy a home, and live, thats right, live for the rest of your days in your own country, not send it home.

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    • Typical attitude all ur short of sayin is “sure i wouldnt get out of bed for that money” we were all overpaid in the boom years me included now that things are tough the wages are reflected in this and as for your foregn workers rant thats just the lazy unemployed mans excuse to not gettin up off his hole

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    • typical greedy employers excuse, the recession is over, stop expoliting people. i bet you won’t leave yourself short when you’re paying yourself of course. enjoy it while it lasts. what goes around comes around.

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    • The recession is over is it … Tell that to the thousands people on the dole

      Listen pal your better off moving to a hippy commune live off the land no profits with your borderline comunist views

      Reply
    • Elbbit: I did say that actually getting a low paid job when you are ‘overqualified’ is very difficult at the moment, so your argument that ‘many people here work low paid jobs and study evening weekends for qualifications’ isn’t relevant and it’s certainly not true that ‘I just don’t want to work’. The point I was trying to make is that applying for jobs you have no chance of getting actually reduces the likelihood of finding a suitable job you are qualified for.

      Another issue is that it makes more sense from an economic efficiency perspective for people with qualifications to use them in jobs they are qualified for, rather than wasting all those years of training and education, paid for by the Irish state, in unskilled jobs. In addition by working in unskilled jobs, an overqualified person would be displacing unskilled people with no other choice of employment, thus putting them on the dole, and also paying less tax off a lower salary than if they found skilled employment.

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    • exactly fleetingwhim. you see, theres a rule in quite a few non eu countries where the job position should not be filled by a non national if it can be filled by a national with the skills. but you see we’re constantly lied to that its a skill shortage when in actual fact its a shortage of cheap labour theyre crying about. i have come across skilled positions here that can be filled by thousands of nationals out of work with those said skills, yet you will find non eu nationals working them. strange, very f^&^king strange and something is going to have to give. i’m certain, quite certain, british immigration would have a field day rounding up all the illegit visa entrants here working for many irish companies and take these dodgy employers to book. i say british because what we have here just arent doing the job. these arent doctors/rocket scientist postitions i’m talking about.

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  • I want to tell a story of a woman in her early 30′s who worked here since she was 17 and left to complete her law degree in Oxford. When she was over there she met an English man and they ended up falling in love. She fell pregnant and had twins in England, receiving all the support possible and incredible care, even though she was not an English citizen. She finished her exams, acing them, and they decided to return home as she was finding it difficult to manage with twins and was quite homesick. That was in July 2011.

    This very day, one and a half years on, the social welfare still have not committed to offering her assistance. She was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes last Christmas and fell is just pregnant again. This woman wants to work as does her partner, yet she is being treated like some leech by the social welfare after 12 years of paying paye and prsi and never having claimed a cent in unemployment assistance. If this woman did not have good family here both her (a diabetic pregnant woman) and her partner and two small babies would be hungry on the streets. Joan Burton, Kathleen Lynch, Simon Coveney and Colm Burke have all been briefed on the case and while all agree that this is a disgrace, not one of them can do anything about the speed. Colm Burke has stayed by this womans side and deserves enormous credit as he is sickened by the wrongdoing being done to this woman. Every week a new form is requested and with no sight in view I think it is an absolute joke that some people on here think that we are supporting our unemployed. We punish the honest ones and reward the dishonest ones.

    It might be worth pointing out that the only reason the social welfare are dragging their heels and placing enormous stress on this sick, pregnant woman is because she claimed she was not a single mother. In her honesty she said it would be unjust to claim she was, even though her benefits would have been bigger and approval would have happened immediately. Great country!

    Reply
    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      Surely if she has a law degree from Oxford she shouldn’t have a problem getting a job? Trainee solicitor? Compliance in Financial Services?

      Reply
    • Conor, do you honestly think she hasn’t tried that? She got a brief stint teaching fas applicants (how ironic eh?) the workings of court etc. As I said already she wants to work, I meant that and just to note, her two baby sons are not receiving children’s allowance yet either.

      Reply
    • i know a qualified barrister that has no job, i also know a guy with an msc in physics that has no job, plenty of hard-working qualified people have no job

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    • You’re also missing the entire point, a social protection system that doesn’t protect honest, sick, pregnant, vulnerable people who have paid taxes for years and whom have small children IS NOT a social protection system! I would be interested to hear the opinions of the red thumbs. Perhaps they think diabetic pregnant IRISH citizens genuinely trying to find work to feed their kids don’t deserve assistance? Straight from the Paul Ryan book of maniacisms.

      Reply
    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      I find it very hard to believe that if she does have a law degree from Oxford (not Oxford Brookes), that she can’t get a job. P.s a Barrister is self employed and also has the guy with the MSC in Physica tried to get a job in Quantitative Finance? Also who moves country with two small children without finding a job first? That’s extremely irresponsible!

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    • Conor I am not even going to justify that with a response. The neck of you. Put yourself in someone elses shoes. This woman is probably the best mother I know, the kindest, most hardworking, responsible woman I know also. You know f all. I have stated the facts. Deal with the issue and stop diverting attention because of your ignorant agenda! If you’re so unconvinced why don’t you give her a job, she’ll gladly take it, trust me!

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    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      All I’m saying is that moving countries with no job in place and expecting the state to pick up your welfare bill is pretty irresponsible. Also the fact that she cannot get any job is bullshit, if she has 10 yearsish work experience and a law degree from one of the top 10 universities in the world and can’t find a job simply means that she hasn’t been trying hard enough.

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    • How do you know it’s bullshit? You have just discredited any point you were trying to make by being so self righteous. Well done. Your opinion is now null and void. Congrats. PS: You are wrong! Entirely! Everything I stated is a fact, just cause it doesn’t fit within your disgusting worldly view doesn’t make it infactual!

      Reply
    • Sham 18/11/12 #

      Diarmud in fairness me man is right. I’m not sure how it suits your agenda to be on here with half truths and invented anecdotes, but the game is up. Nice try though.

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    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      Bull bull bull bull. Perhaps she should stop getting pregnant until her or her husband has a job to pay for all her babies?

      Reply
    • Really lads? Why don’t ye ring any of the aforementioned politicians and mention the details of the case to see who’s bullshitting.

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    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      Well I wouldn’t ring anyone, wouldn’t waste my phone minutes but apart from that I wouldn’t ring because your story of the 1st class Oxford law graduate diabetic unemployed baby making factory doesn’t exactly hold true?

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    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      Even if you name her, she’s still really irresponsible for 1) Moving to another country with no job for either her or her husband, while have 2 babies and having an expectation that the state should pay for everything for them and 2) for deciding to have another child while both her and her husband are unemployed and again expecting the state to pay for their lifestyle choice.

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    • What are you talking about? This article is about social welfare you clown. I am using her example as proof if how the system does not work fit genuine people almost on the breadline. If you’re too arrogant and pig headed to deal with that point rather than make assumptions please stop replying!

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    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      It sounds like she’s not entitled to welfare because she has been a non-resident for a number of years, and has not paid PRSI in this country for a number of years. Her husband is not entitled to welfare because he is a British national who has never worked in this country. I’ve 3 questions, why don’t either her or her husband get menial jobs to pay the bills? Why don’t they move back to Britain since there is apparently nothing for them in Ireland? And finally why on earth would you get pregnant again when you or your husband has no job and you already have two mouths to feed? (you can get condoms for free). The Irish government does not have a responsibility to pay for welfare tourists.

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    • Conor why don’t you ask any newly law graduate of 2012 and see what they say ?

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    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      As a business graduate of 2012, I do know some law graduates, most have their training contracts with the big firms and are in Blackhall at the moment, some are studying for the Bar, others are travelling, others are starting a masters, while others are abroad volunteering. Your point being?

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    • Conor just to point out too, not that you’d know perched in your ivory tower, but if you’re not entitled to assistance they inform you pretty quick. Even the minster for social protection concedes this lady is due benefits, so I am aghast that you think you know better. Just to clarify too – do you think children should starve if you’re not happy with the personal choices or bad fortunes of their parents. I’d be interested to hear your point oh lordly one. You haven’t a clue pal!

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    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      Someone have a chip on their shoulder about not having a degree? P.S I still think that both parents should get off their arses and get jobs. It’s nothing to do with the kids, although in fairness if they are not being taken care of you should probably ring social services and let them take care of them?

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    • I don’t know why my first comment reply got deleted just was pointing out that yet again your assumptions have proved you don’t know what you’re talking about. I am currently studying for something slightly more advanced and scientific than some business degree. Come back to me when you have more responsibilities than your own cat and when your assumptions don’t prejudice your quite illogical and immature view on life. I would have thought by now you’d have gotten the point I made about them trying to get work. I suppose you’re right though. the 500,000 people currently working should not be allowed have children and should just get off their arses. God why don’t the government employ more children in cabinet, you’d have us all sorted in a jiffy, and Mammy we’d pay your expenses, your Mammy would get a break! I was angry initially, now you have me laughing you’re so ridiculous!

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    • *currently NOT working

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    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      What are you studying that’s oh so scientific and advanced? The fact remains that your friend is a welfare tourist!

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    • Conor 18/11/12 #

      I like the way your friends age and length that she has worked has changed! Smell of bull! Ye I worked through college and now I work full time paying taxes! It’s great! What are you studying? You haven’t given me a chance to criticise it yet?

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    • Oh is that in the job you have since July? God you must have learned so much in the whole 4 months of your life that you have paid taxes from full time employment, glad to see your just out of teenage years friends are working hard too to “fix the Irish economy”. Your twitter page really is a barrel of laughs. A load of kids thinking they know everything, you really do the youth of this country no favours. In about ten years you’re going to remember this conversation, and it will be like remembering that you ran around school naked such will be the embarrassment you’ll encounter for thinking that you knew it all and only just out of college. You really do crack me up, thanks again for the laughs.

      Reply
    • Some had their kids before they lost their jobs

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    • Conor 19/11/12 #

      You might think that you’re all knowing but you’re too blinkered to see that your friend is a wannabe welfare scrounger. They made a conscious decision to move to Ireland more than likely because the benefits are better. She or her husband have not worked to deserve the safety net that is the purpose of a social welfare system. The thing that is wrong with this country is that there are thousands of people like your friend who feel like they are entitled to everything but want to give nothing to contribute, who look down on menial jobs as beneath them yet continue to farm out babies. Your friends sense of entitlement is exactly what’s wrong with this country.

      P.S don’t slag my lack of life experience, I hardly think being a former account executive for a parochial radio station amounts to you being a Keynesian scholar.

      Reply
    • This is definitely the last time I am going to reply cause you have proved yourself to be an absolute clown at this stage, but here’s a few points for ya:

      1. This woman has paid 42 times the employment tax you have paid in your life. She is an Irish citizen which under our constitution is entitled to support from the state whilst SHE IS LOOKING FOR WORK!
      2. You got a free third level education, she didn’t, so in fact if anyone owes the state anything it’s you buddy.
      3. She and her partner were both working in England, but I’ll be sure to let everyone abroad who gets diagnosed with a life long illness that they aren’t welcome at home cause the upstart 20 year olds don’t want them having their money.
      4. You seem to think that your simple business degree which any man woman or monkey could get in this country suddenly provides you with infinite knowledge as to right and wrong and the workings of the state. Again, you are a child, you know f all!
      5. You can’t be a welfare tourist if you’re from the country you are claiming in? Neither her or her partner claimed any social protection in the UK.

      Now run along home to Mammy for your dinner. The big boys are talking!

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    • Sorry I forgot:

      6. I never claimed to be all knowing, that was you putting words in my mouth. However, I do think someone who has worked for twelve years in the private sector, nine of those within advertising, who has set up two businesses of his own, has been on a dole queue more than once and who is now gearing up to study medicine and is now back in education to make that possible has a tad more life experience and knows a tad more of the workings of the state than some youngfella just out of college who’s first full time job started four months ago and who’s entire photo library contains pictures of cats and booze. What do you think?

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    • I want to apologise to the Journal people and the readers for the drawn out spat between me and Conor. Someone expressing such strong views when infinitely light on facts, whilst simultaneously putting words in my mouth and making scandalous assumptions was one argument I could not walk away from, especially when that same person has no experience in real life, however, apologies for putting ye through it in any event!

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  • thats why suicide prevails, its a way out, money money money, its not working, greedy old world, whats it all for, pointless.

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  • ‘I’d be better off on the dole’ is a myth. I was on the dole for over a year, €188 a week, didn’t even cover my rent and bills. Now I’m back working and even though the pay is brutal I’m better off. If you think you can live on €188 a week then quit your job and let someone who’d appreciate it take it.

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  • great article … with great suggestions for people out of work..
    its a pity that the people that can do something eg government ministers and civil servants inc fas employees would bother or can’t be arsed even reading the article… there is still discrimination in social welfare when your a self employed person… as a self employed person i have the right to pay taxes but no the right to claim anything back… new businesses should be givin a chance get on their feet not the first guy they see is a guy looking for rates or taxes…

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  • We are supporting them.

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    • Yes we are, and the amount paid out is much greater than our neighbours – disproportionately higher even when factoring in the ‘higher cost of living’. Being unemployed is not supposed to be comfortable. It is supposed to be uncomfortable enough to encourage people to go out and take any available job, even a minimum wage job. Benefits should never be more than a paying job.

      Reply
    • That is not entirely true:
      Most of our neighbours pay a certain percentage I the income at an average 80%. While here it’s a fixed, considerable lower amount from day one. So the argent that ireland is so generous isn’t exactly true.

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    • Can we once and for all banish this myth about we pay more than our neighbours. As someone whose family in law are UK residents it is entirely infactual to say that. Their base rate is less but they get add ons as standard which increases their overall support. That coupled with standard of living means that is a non argument.

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    • *cost of living

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    • Thats the Problem with the system its better or close to the same to have no job as to have one ive 2 people in my shop who only work part time 19hours cant do more because their benifits get cut but if they left part time and worked full time they would only make an extra 16 euro a week

      Sytem is flawed

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    • It is not meant to be uncomfortable. It is meant to provide you with sufficient income to provide you with your basic family needs . By doing this it is also meant to maintain ones health and prevent people from suffering from malnutrition and other diseases associated with poor living. This keeps people from being a burden on the health services. Already TB is making a comeback. Payments are also made to prevent social exclusion. We are left with a system where those lucky enough to be working are disgruntled by the fact that they feel they are carrying those unlucky to have list their jobs. In most cases that’s all that’s involved, luck. It could be you next week .

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    • But why would anyone work 20 hours for an extra 16 euro !

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    • It’s all about you then

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  • Mick 18/11/12 #

    Question-how could you not find work between 06 and 08? Sorry, I cannot take your article seriously after that.

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    • I thought the same. You could leave a job on a Friday and find another by Monday in that period of time.

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    • I wouldn’t it’s easy, can depend especially on what line of work you are in. I found it very difficult for a while to find another job once let go and ended up having to move country. People who haven’t been in the situation tend to think its a lot easier than what it is, especially when you factor in things like finding reasonable child care etc.

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    • I agree – someone who is highly educated enough to lecture in a third-level college should not have had any problems getting a job. Yes – it might not have been the job she loved, but I am sure there should have been something she could have done which would provide a comfortable income.

      In fact, she sounds like just the sort of person the govt is trying to avoid getting stuck in the long-term unemployment trap.

      For others, I realise that they have either limited job skills or skills that are now almost redundant (i.e. construction) in this country. As a result, the only jobs they can apply for are unskilled and may not even pay as much as the dole.

      However, past experience of the 70s and 80s showed we had families where the children, their parents AND their grandparents had not experienced employment.

      It must be very demoralising to keep job-hunting for low-paid jobs and continually being rejected (or worse, do not get any reply). However, the old adage still applies – it is in fact easier to get a job when your are already in a job, despite having less time to job-hunt.
      If you are an unemployed accountant or an unemployed chef, your employer would be more interested in somebody who filled the last 6 months as a low-paid office temp or as a burger-flipper in McDonalds than seeing a gap on the CV. It shows the job applicants determination to stay in the job market, no matter what.
      The gap on the CV NEVER shows you applying to 200 employers or job ads for the job you really want or are qualified for.
      And if you remain unemployed for some years (as many now have), your attitude in a job interview shows – you have become less employable in the eyes of the recruiter.

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    • Oops – thought it was a she when I saw the photo. Only now paid attention to his name !

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  • While I can see some valid points there must be a balance where the people who go and get employment pay tax can see the ones who are claiming UB/A are actually seeking to be employed and not waiting on the perfect job to come knocking on their door.

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  • You had me reading until the part where it practically said its ok to not even look for work while on the dole. There’s actually a fair bit of work out there, not talking bout Christmas work in smyths, if you were to get off your hole and look for it

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  • Let’s do some simple sums here.
    Dole= 188 a week
    Maximum rent allowance is 75 a week in Dublin but it’s near impossible to qualify unless you’re willing to lie about how much rent you pay.
    Total= 263 a week

    Minimum wage is 8.65 an hour so a 40 hour week = 346, roughly 320 after tax

    So best case scenario unemployed= 263 a week
    Worst case scenario employed= 320 a week

    How exactly are you better off unemployed?

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    • Your better off beacuse te 50 euro in the difference wouldnt cover travel and lunch and over a year including any doctors appointments you may have to go to your extra 50 euro is worthless

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    • That’s worse case scenario, minimum wage jobs. I hear people who are taking home 500 quid a week moaning about how they’d be better off on the dole. If you’re working minimum wage and not making your own lunch you’re a fool.

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    • I agree i hear people all the time on all sorts of money claiming that theyd be better off on the dole but if your atarting on the bottom pay scale you pretty much are bettee off financially to be on the dole ….

      Ok lets assume ya do make ur own lunch say it cost you 10 euro a week and ur busfare is lets say 21.50 for a weekly pass whats left from the 50 euro 19.5 so basically you would actually br getting paid 51c and hour for a weeks work

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  • I read his first alternative and realised I reading the rantings of a mad man so I read no more.

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  • Sounds a bit like one too. To be honest.

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  • this is all bowing to employers poor mouths to cream it. visitors who come here to work won’t complain as the lower wage is still better than back home where their savings are worth triple, so its a nice incentive for them to keep going. they win, the employers here win by exploiting this current situation, but the natives lose. i’m not talking about non skilled minimum waged jobs, heck some of the skilled jobs are close to minimum wage. the old argument, we won’t work, no… they just won’t pay us to work in order to be able to afford a home, pay the bills, live in our own country. we’re not seen as an investment, how could we be when greedy dollar eyes see a cheaper offer to do the job but the last laugh we have is thats not their investment. enjoy it while it lasts greedy eyes but when the drain is drained of all the brains don’t come looking for us.

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  • Elbbit 18/11/12 #

    Welfare payments for long term unemployed need to be cut now and continually reduced..There are lots of jobs out there, maybe nit a field people are qualified in but at the end of the day a jobs a job. but its an easy life on SW

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  • can you imagine the crime wave?

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  • “I think the challenge is for us is to make Ireland the best country in the world to be unemployed.”

    The most stupid statement I have ever read.

    Anyway, Ireland is the best place for dole dwellers. Paid for on borrowings that will enslave future generations.

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  • censored 20/11/12 #

    Clearly a troll article.

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  • Why?

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  • Back in the early 1980s during civics classes, life without work was seen as a future reality, computers and machines would do the work while we all played , the reality is that their isn’t always enough work for all , this being so do we help those without work or not ,

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