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ONE IN FIVE people evade penalty points and do not end up in court because of weaknesses in the system and a quarter were quashed.
Today’s report by the Comptroller and Auditor General called on the gardaí to address what he called “significant” flaws in the system.
The report found that there is no controls to stop gardaí terminating penalty point notices which are not in their authority.
The system has come under intense scrutiny in the last 12 months.
In total, notices were terminated for 42,700 in 2011 and 2012. Nationally, an average of 2.2 per cent of notices were terminated. However in Ennis this figure was 5.9 per cent. In Birr, 0.1 per cent of notices were terminated.
The report took a sample of 300 notice terminations in reviewed offices an found that in 11 cases there was no reason given for the termination.
It also found that more than half the cases had been wiped on a discretionary basis.
Circumstances and explanations accepted by District Officers included:
and
Both Blanchardstown and the Bridewell in Dublin topped the list for most terminations, with 699 and 355 respectively.
3,000 notices were not served because of delays getting data from notepads into the garda system and the C&AG report found a high level of unaccounted for forms.
While making no judgements, the report said that “absent and inadequate records, and recorded facts in other cases, give rise to concerns that many cases have been terminated without due cause”.
The report also said that a system whereby companies must identify drivers of company vehicles was open to abuse. Many companies are responding that they do not know who is driving, leaving a prosecution next to impossible.
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I got stopped one day for speeding one day, the guard says to me “I’ve been waiting for you all day” so I says “well I got here as fast as I could”!
Brilliant, Conor. Did you get off??
Afraid not Mary, think it just peed him off all the more!!!
That’s a shame!
Pregnant women in labour, an emergency with my dog and I was rushing to the vet, a dying relative, a serious medical emergency. These are ones I can remember either putting the foot down for myself or being in the car when someone else was putting the foot down.
The list above is pretty pathetic though.
.
No one likes cold chips…..rushing back from the chipper……what ye think?
Irelanda….. 10 points…
They should have breathalyzed the lad with the bees!
They should have breathalyzed the guard that believed it.
Ah, there’s nothing as annoying as misspelling a status update when you have to swerve around a school bus.
Penalty points are not about safety, but about creating revenue and political domination.
Major Irish roads are based on an EU design and should accomodate speeds in excess of what is recommended by law.
German road death statistics are way below that of the Irish.
Eventhough most of German Autobahns are free of speed restrictions the death toll is way below that of Irish statistics.
WHY? Irish drivers lack in discipline, awareness and education.
Comparing a German autobahn to a Irish motorway…Are you serious??
? You wont experiance lodged water or such on an Autobahn but will here on our motorways,a sure killer at the speeds the Germans do,or better said did! Because it is virtually impossible to do those speeds with the continous never ending truck convoys going North/South East /West Six days a week
.Sunday they have a nationwide HGV ban on the autobahns.
Also it is a myth that they are free of speed restrictions..There are plenty of posted areas depending on road conditions or obstructions.
However cant fault you about better driver training…One thing though,when the Germans do a autobahn car wreck they do it BIG!!!! 20plus pile ups with serious injuries and death are not uncommon.
The Germans understand the concept of an overtaking lane. Last year I was in the passenger seat of a GTI with a German driver. He was doing 250km/h in an unrestricted zone. Regardless of speed, if the road was clear ahead and there were no cars to overtake, we were in the inside lane. I remarked on his discipline and he made a good (and somewhat scary) point when he said “Stephen, we are in a GTI doing 250, maybe someone in a Porsche or Lamborghini is doing 300 or 320 and wants to overtake me.” Bridie driving her Nissan Micra at 80 in the middle lane wouldn’t stand a chance!
Many many people who drive, need to learn to drive. It would be a good start
Well it may have something to do with a certain amnesty given back in the 80′s. I was a bit too young to remember it but I think you’ll find a lot of drivers never sat a test.
Yes. It was mid to late 70′s. I missed out on the amnesty as I started learning in late 1979 and had to do the test in 1980. Some of my friends never did it.
Niall. The ’70s. 1979 Those with a second provisional got a full license. I’d say there has been a lot of deaths caused by (a small percentage but one is too many) those provisional drivers for that’s what they are and always will be. Whatever minister gave the permission to hand out these free licenses should be held partially responsible for deaths caused by these drivers.
Nah. Just idiots in genaral…
whats the excuse for those who were born after 1979 being crap drivers then?
Despite the frankly pathetic excuses I’d say there’s a large number that were pretty good excuses.
Medical emergencies
Dying family member/friend
Imminent baby
But hey if gardai are taking just about any excuses, why are people still expected to be afraid of the penalties?
The dying cow one just sounds like something off a comedy sketch.
Diarrhea works to not get a ticket……sometimes, true story
A lump of fresh shite in a jam jar never fails.
Don’t know whether this still works but I heard of a guy who challenged the Guard giving evidence in court by asking him if his gatso gun was properly calibrated. The guard replied yes so the fella asked him if he had a Certificate of Calibration in court to prove this. The guard did not have this piece of paper so the judge through out the charge. Nice story if true !
Now that’s getting off on a technicality in style!! Haha!
The insurance company’s are the only ones who end up benefiting from the penalty point system outside of the state
So basically the state are used to police drivers and when they are guilty of a driving offence that ends up with penalty points added your insurance goes up
Because you driving is deemed more risky….. It’s a pretty simple principle to grasp
Your missing the point
No,he’s not.
I remember someone telling me maybe 7 or 8 years back that ambulance drivers had to cover themselves under their own insurance. That the state didn’t do it Can anyone reading shed any light on that? Have things changed?
Me and the wife. Driving a combination of 35 yrs. Not 1 penalty point. Its nowt to do with insurance company/garda scams. Its gotta do with bad driving. Don’t drive cr** dont get points etc etc
I’m driving 20 years no Points I don’t drive crazy I just calling it as it is as far as the state and insurance company’s go
You drive an ambulance on the state insurance but your own license. While responding to emergency calls you are exempt from certain speed limits but you must drive with care and can be prosecuted if you cause an accident
Thanks David. Does that include local voluntary fire brigade and lifeboat too do you know. I assume it does, round my way we have both an it’s all voluntary.
Chopstix and Lesley,
47 years in Germany, Holland, UK and Ireland no points, no court summons, 1 x €60.00 statutory fine.
So which fits careful driver who never speeds orexperienced who’s been lucky.
I remember a while back being stopped for speeding on the motorway. The guard approached the van I was driving from the passenger side for safety and as it was raining I told him to jump in. He shows me the speed gun and sure enough I was speeding. No arguments from me. Showed him my license and insurance and he took all my details, all the while having a bit of banter. Your taking this very well he said.
Well guard said I, there is nothing going to happen to me that is going to spoil my day. Why is that he asked. Well it’s like this I said, I just moved my son and his girlfriend out of my house who have being living there for years and not paying a penny in rent, cleaning up after themselves and generally making a nuisance by eating everything in front if them. Now says I. A speeding ticket is NEVER going to spoil that feeling of freedom I have. My own house back to myself.
He started to smile and as he was leaving I shook his hand and bid him good day.
As I was pulling out back into traffic I looked in my mirror. I would swear that guard was peeing on himself laughing telling his partner.
Never heard another word.
I just met a guard with a sense of humour.
Nice story Dwickedchicken. I enjoyed it :)
@ Steve Tracey.
I’ve seen your name popping up from time to time on the journal (I’m a relative newcomer).
But I’ve wondered a few times abut the AICS reference. What’s that about? (genuine question, no ambushing nonsense at the ready from me)
Every word is true Niall. :)
Steve Tracey
I’m all out of blue peter badges
When going to the station you are under your own license/insurance and you have to obey all rules of the road. It’s better that way – you don’t want a load of people getting blue mist.
When a Garda pulls you over he has to have evidence you broke the speed limit unless you admit to it
If the Garda has to drive at 90kmph to keep pace with you in a 50kmph zone, admission isn’t goin to do much for you
Still no evidence !
That’s why the garda shows you the reading on the speed gun. In the case of speed detection vans your reg is photographed along with the speed
I’m talking about a Garda without radar one that pulls you over because he assumed you broke the limit
Could technically be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention (if driving at a dangerous speed)
Unfortunately the comment about “lost in the post” does work, not all the time. The system should never have been computerised/automated. No excuses when you were physically handed the ticket. It would be interesting to compare the “struck-out” statistics from the old system to the new.
Haha that is a joke. No wonder we are the laughing stock in some countries
When you get the points put them in the bin a few weeks later a summons to court go in and tell the judge you never received the points or fine and it has to be throwing out works all the time
Eh No it doesn’t! The Judge will just give you the benefit of the doubt that you never got the notice and then give you the original fine and points!
Well not in Wicklow and that’s a fact he can’t prove you got the points notice if they just use normal post no signing to prove you got it
That’s because they can’t prove you got the bill but chances are you will have to pay the original fine all depends on the judge
But they can’t give you the original fine if it’s well out of date by the time your in the court
Eh Yes it does work….The onus is on the State to prove that you recived this notice…And there is only TWO accepted methods of documented service in Ireland.
One is a personal service of documents with a sworn affadavitt stating,time location and date by a person over 18,a rather costly and awkward way of delivering letters to somone
OR, a signature for a registerd letter BY THE ADDRESSEE!!
Regd letters signed for you in your name by your wife,parent,siblings,neighbours, or the dog are null and void as there is no proof you will recive it.
So how then can the court prove that you did or did not recive this summons,unless they have a person serving this on you IE a court rep or a member of AGS…
There is a case of beyond reasonable doubt that you honestly did not recive this summons and therefore if the state can furnish NO proof that you recived thisor avoided it,it is thrown out.
Only way around this is in reality is for the AGS to issue the ticket there and then with evidence of the offence ,like a printout of the radar gun detection as any civillised and functioning country would.
He wasn’t on about the summons, he talking about the speeding notice for fine / points & saying that he could go into court, on foot of a summons, and successfully dodge the points / fine in court putting forward the argument that he never received anything prior to summons! Nobody was talking about the summons itself!
Where’s Harry????
What excuse do the guards have for monitoring speeding where speed limits are known to be too low?
Known to be too low? In your opinion it’s too low but it may not be in the eyes of road safety experts or even more importantly the eyes of people who may have lost a family member in that area
Then some of these “road safety experts” need to go and get re qualified!!!
There are some farsical speed limits around the country.A dead end boreen near me ,that you wouldnt get an ass and cart down comfortably has a 100kph speed limit on it.While a part of a dual carrigeway ,wide and straigh toutside Limerick with nary a domestic dwelling for miles has a 50kmh speed limit that starts all of about 50 meters from a 100kmh speed zone
.IOW reduce speed at a fantastically dangerous short distance.been plenty of rear ends on that stretch.The road safety experts in this case was Limerick county council who never botherd to change this after the major road upgrade there.
Simon the speed limit of 50km was left as to deliberately delay traffic on that road to annoy motorists and get them to use the toll instead. That speed limit has nothing to do with safety
I had 10 points up to last yr, down to 6 now n all for stupidity doin 50 in 60 zones, 40 in 30… I’m sure the local speed vans had me black listed
@emily. Seriously no sympathy for you! That’s just sheer stupidity!
Completely.. Not looking for sympathy. Just saying how easy after years of driving one can become careless.
Your an insurance brokers dream!
€370 but when I was at 10 was close to €900. Two years since my last ticket but took me a while to cop on.
You were hard done by getting points for doing 50 in 60 zones ;)
Oh dear. I was Graham :( lol
Calm down Alan in fairness it 10kph over. where is the discretion there? u can hardly see that difference in some cars now. Those vans are designed to make money not slow anyone down.
He’s grand, wasn’t looking for sympathy lol. Just stating it easily happens. I was never stopped by a guard just speed vans. Paid my fines n hit my points :(
A Short Play
by me,
Garda pulls over a speeding car,
Man in Car: Guard, guard, it’s me cow Maisey , she’s dying! Oh God, what’ll I do without her? (sobs wildly) Sure she’s only a calf!
Garda: (uncomfortably) Jesus…just go….
what about the ones like ” im a serving t.d/ senetor/ garda/ judge/ local councilor/ celbrity/ g.a.a commitee member. or ” do you know who my daddy/mummy/uncle/ sister/ brother is?” or the best one i actually heard was a guy who was stopped by a garda patrol car and informed that he was ‘excessivly speeding’ he told the garda i couldnt have been going that fast or you would’nt have caught me up would you!”
A bit off topic but does anyone know why there are loads of new signposts going up along national secondary roads? I have noticed it along all stretches of the N71 in Cork and I assume if it’s being done there then it is being done nationwide. They have placed a big signpost opposite EVERY little side road which branches onto it. Some of these roads are tiny and may just loop onto a different back road which will again branch onto the main road – another huge sign. On one 10km stretch of road near my home there are roughly 20 new signs. These signs just tell the locals which two towns are left and right.
My point anyway is, why the hell is this necessary? I’m guessing it may be a regulation from the EU to have every single side road marked and visa versa, every main road from a side road marked. If this is happening all over Ireland then I can only imagine how much money this is costing. If anyone can shed some light on this then please do! :)
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