Not totally responsible they had help from the bankers and developers. However they were meant to be running the country for the good of the Irish citizens. It is clear that they failed in that job and should never be allowed back into power.

the worldwide recession was going to happen anyway, but it wouldnt have been as bad here had we saved a few euro for a rainy day and stopped spening money left right and center…

They are not to blame for everything. The summer weather may have been poor under any government.

Apart from that its the mother of all charge sheets.

eh where’s the “The opposition was as weak as the party in power and constantly called for more spending above the already excessive spending by FF”

The obvious group at fault in this whole thing is the Irish electorate themselves who voted in the FF/PDs for ten years. The Irish people gave the government the mandate to carry out the policies they brought in and it is not like we didnt see this all before – the exact same thing happen with Charlie Haughey. In 2007 FF got elected on the slogan “Trust me, I am a politican” – The old adage is true – “You get the government you deserve.”

Never forget the PD’s role in formulation of policies of both FG & FF ???

Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke, Charles Haughey, Des Traynor, Denis Foley, Beverley Cooper Flynn, Bertie Ahern, Padraic Flynn, Ivor Callelly, Willie O’Dee…

Salt of the earth.

Could you imagine if we were french. How long would Bertie Ahern’s prison sentence have been?

Lest we forget…

A Sample Period Of Years Under Fianna Fail – And What They Have Been Up To!

In October 2007, former Fianna Fail Government Press Secretary Frank Dunlop told the Mahon Tribunal that property developer Owen O’Callaghan paid off a debt of £10,700 for Fianna Fail councillor Colm McGrath when he was facing a court judgment.

In October 2007, a book was published that included a claim that a serving Government Minister has admitted taking cocaine, and that he wasn’t the only one doing it. Taoiseach Bertie Ahern made no effort to investigate it.

In September 2007, Fianna Fail TD Michael Collins was found guilty in court of obtaining a tax clearance certificate under false pretences. He had previously made a €130,000 tax settlement arising from a bogus non-resident bank account.

In September 2007, jailed Fianna Fail councillor Michael ‘Stroke’ Fahey had missed six months of council meetings, and by law he should have been deemed to have resigned. He escaped this by asking the council to deem his absence to be ‘due to illness and attendance in Dublin’.

In September 2007, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, while being questioned at the Mahon Tribunal, accepted that his earlier story that Celia Larkin had made a £30,000 sterling transaction on his behalf could not be correct, unless the bank records were inaccurate.

In September 2007, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, while being questioned at the Mahon Tribunal, said that he must have given £30,000 to somebody else (to make a transaction that the bank had no record for), but he didn’t know who he gave the money to.

In August 2007, Bertie Ahern appointed as a Senator former Fianna Fail TD Ivor Callely, who had just lost his Dail seat in a general election, and who had resigned as a Junior Minister after a scandal in 2005.

In August 2007, Bertie Ahern appointed as a Senator former Fianna Fail TD John Ellis, who had just lost his Dail seat in a general election, and who had resigned as chair of an Oireachtas committee after a scandal in 1999.

In July 2007 the Standards in Public Office Commission said that Fianna Fail had failed to report a donation in the party’s statutory declarations for 2005.

In June 2007, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern made secret deals, using taxpayers money, with independent TDs to secure their support as Taoiseach. Two of these independent TDs, Beverly Flynn and Michael Lowry, had previously been forced to resign from their parties after scandals.

In June 2007, Fianna Fail changed the law to create three new Junior Ministers with salaries of €150,000 a year. They had previously done this in 1977 and 1980. When Fine Gael did the same in 1995, Fianna Fail called it an abuse of the taxpayer and an act of hypocrisy, and Bertie Ahern vowed to abolish the new posts.

In March 2007, Fianna Fail councillor Michael ‘Stroke’ Fahey was jailed for twelve months after being found guilty of defrauding his own council of €15,000 and falsely implicating an innocent contractor in the crime. The jailed councillor was also chairman of the Limerick Prison visiting committee.

In May 2007, stockbroker Padraic O’Connor said that Bertie Ahern was wrong to say that he had given Ahern £5,000 as a loan from a friend in 1993. O’Connor said he was not a friend of Ahern’s, that he had been asked for a political donation of £5,000, that he had given that on a company cheque, and that he had been given in return a false invoice for consultancy work that had not been done.

In February 2007, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern praised the Moriarty Tribunal for its ‘outstanding work in painstakingly stripping away the layers of secrecy and obscurity surrounding Mr Haughey’s financial affairs and exposing them to public scrutiny.’
(He was quick to reverse those words later when his own antics began to be exposed!)

In December 2006, the Moriarty Tribunal found that former Taoiseach Charles Haughey took payments of €11.56 million, or €45 million in today’s money, between 1979 and 1996, and granted favours in return.

In October 2006, it emerged that Taoiseach Bertie Ahern had bought his house from businessman Michael Wall, who had been at a dinner in Manchester at which Ahern was given £8,000 sterling. When asked why he had not previously said that Wall was at the dinner, Ahern replied that Wall had not eaten the dinner.

In September 2006, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern said that, when he was Minister for Finance, he had unexpectedly received a donation of £8,000 sterling from some millionaires who he had a meal with in Manchester on the night before a Manchester United football match.

In September 2006, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern accepted that he had appointed people who gave him money to State boards, but he insisted that he did not appoint them because they gave him money. He said he had appointed them because they were his friends.

In September 2006, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern said that he had accepted £39,000 from friends, including the brilliantly-named Paddy the Plasterer, in 1993 and 1994. He said it was loans, and that he had tried to pay them back but they had all refused.

In September 2006, when Taoiseach Bertie Ahern was first asked about allegations of receiving from €50,000 and €100,000 from businessmen, he told journalists that a lot of the report was correct but that ‘the figures are off the wall.’ This, of course, was true, because he got some of the money ‘off Michael Wall’.

In December 2005, Fianna Fail Junior Minister Ivor Callely resigned when it emerged that a top construction company had painted his house free of charge, while the company was also doing work for the Eastern Health Board of which Callely was chairperson.

In April 2005, former Fianna Fail Junior Minister for Transport, Jim McDaid, who had led an anti-drink-driving campaign, was arrested after drunkenly driving his car the wrong way up a busy dual carriageway.

In January 2005, former Fianna Fail Justice Minister Ray Burke was jailed for six months for making false tax declarations, breaking a law that he himself had helped to pass. He served four and a half months in Arbour Hill prison.

In May 2004, Fianna Fail expelled Mayo TD Beverly Flynn from the Party. Bertie Ahern said the integrity of the party depended on her expulsion, that Fianna Fail was at a crossroads, and that the party would also have to deal with any other members who transgressed ethics and standards in public life.

In September 2003, Fianna Fail TD Michael Collins resigned from the Parliamentary Party after making a €130,000 tax settlement arising from a bogus non-resident bank account.

In September 2003, Fianna Fail TD GV Wright knocked down a nurse while driving under the influence of alcohol. The nurse’s leg was broken in four places.

In December 2002, former Fianna Fail Government Press Secretary Frank Dunlop told the Flood Tribunal that former Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor (who he also knew as ‘Mr Big’) was the first person to tell him that money would have to be paid to councillors in return for their votes.

In November 2002, former Fianna Fail Government press Secretary Frank Dunlop named six Fianna Fail councilors who he bribed to secure the rezoning of land at Carrickmines in south Dublin.

In September 2002, the Flood Tribunal found that former Fianna Fail Justice Minister Ray Burke received corrupt payments, including £125,000 from property developers and £30,000 from the owners of Century Radio.

In September 2002, the Flood Tribunal found that former Fianna Fail Government Press Secretary PJ Mara had failed to co-operate with the Tribunal, by failing to provide details of an overseas account. In the 1980s, in a Hot Press interview, Mara said that his greatest ambition was ‘never to be found out’.

In May 2002, former Fianna Fail Government press Secretary Frank Dunlop said that he paid at least £160,000 to 25 councillors in relation to the redrafting of the Dublin County Council development plan from 1991 to 1993.

In February 2002, former Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor was jailed for a third time for contempt of court when he refused to comply with orders of the Flood Tribunal. When the Dail called for his resignation, he was brought to Leinster House in a prison van to speak against the motion. Lawlor had previously chaired the Dail Ethics Committee.

In January 2002, former Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor was jailed for a second time for contempt of court when he refused to comply with orders of the Flood Tribunal.

In December 2001, Fianna Fail TD Ned O’Keefe resigned as a Junior Minister. He had voted on a bill about feeding bonemeal to animals, forgetting to inform the Dail that his family was involved in manufacturing the substance.

In April 2001, Fianna Fail TD Beverly Flynn resigned from the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee. She had lost a libel case that she had taken against RTE, who had correctly reported that she had sold banking products designed to assist tax evaders. After losing the case, she faced a €2million legal bill.

In January 2001, former Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor was jailed for contempt of court when he refused to comply with orders of the Flood Tribunal.

In June 2000, Fianna Fail TD Liam Lawlor resigned from the Parliamentary Party after he misled an internal party investigation about a donation that he had got. Lawlor was also chair of the Oireachtas Joint Ethics committee.

In May 2000, Fianna Fail Finance Minister Charlie McCreevy nominated Hugh O’Flaherty to a £147,000 job as Vice President of the European Investment Bank. O’Flaherty was a former High Court judge who had been forced to resign after a scandal the previous year.

In February 2000, Fianna Fail TD Denis Foley resigned from the Parliamentary Party. He had £100,000 in an illegal offshore account. He said that he knew that his account might have been an Ansbacher one, but he had been ‘hoping against hope’ that it was not.

In November 1999, Fianna Fail TD John Ellis resigned as chairperson of the Oireachtas Agriculture Committee. He owed money to farmers, he had £250,000 in debts written off by NIB, and Charles Haughey had given him £26,000 of taxpayers cash to settle other debts.

I think this is just funny so I left it included! – In January 1999, former Fianna Fail Minister Padraig Flynn appeared on the Late Late Show on RTE. Now a European Commissioner, Flynn complained about the difficulties of living on ‘just £100,000 a year’ when he had three houses, housekeepers and various cars to maintain. ‘You should try it,’ he added.

In June 1995, Celia Larkin lodged £11,743.34 into Fianna Fail leader Bertie Ahern’s bank account. Ahern says that £10,000 sterling of this was actually his own money, part of £50,000 that he had earlier withdrawn from his own account and used to buy £30,000 sterling. However, the bank has no record of selling £30,000 sterling to anybody during that period.

In December 1994, Celia Larkin lodged IR£28,772.90 into Fianna Fail leader Bertie Ahern’s bank account. Ahern says that this was £30,000 sterling cash given to him in a briefcase by his soon-to-be landlord, just after he had become Fianna Fail leader and was expected to become Taoiseach However, the amount equates exactly to $45,000 based on bank exchange rates on that date.

Some things are their fault, but not by any means the whole situation.

It’s not their fault, for example, that the Euro was disastrously set up, in a way that benefited France and Germany but put the other member states at a disadvantage. The European Central Bank has a lot more to answer for than it’s actually been taken to task for. It’s far too simplistic to say ‘it’s all Fianna Fáil’s fault’ – what people fail to see is that during the key years, the opposition parties were, in some cases, actually criticising the FF-led government for their stinginess!

Yeah, FF made some bad decisions, and some of these were disastrous – but they’re by no means wholly responsible. Ultimately, Europe has to shoulder some of the blame too.

The general public were complicit to an extent. Too may of an educated general public allowed their own wages to get out of control and didn’t sufficiently question the value of their houses. Too many were gullible, wrapped up in their own little “Loreal” moment believing their salaries and houses were worth more than the European averages we were competing against. What really sickens me is that collectively we allowed ourselves to be duped by empty promises that enough people such as David McWilliams were warning us about. FF got it hideously wrong and I agree they should never be allowed back into power … but collectively we bought their crap and assumed it was gold in the bank.. We got it wrong too.

16% of those polled say that the party is not to blame. Is it a coincidence that this is almost the same percentage vote-share FF achieved in the General Election?

So Fianna Fail’s support is running at approx 16% in this poll…?

Happened on their watch = their responsibility.

that party stays dead.

come next election, we stamp on their testicles again. harder. they stay dead for a decade minimum, let labour grow, sinn féin get over twenty, and keep bertie’s bent morons in the low teens. Fianna Fáil stays dead.

never again.

The hiding of the bank debt the lies they fed people and the we know best attitude when being warned that this would happen. Arrogant attitude to what the people wanted/needed as well as the Cronyism all made our fall alot harder then it needed to be.Riddled with corruption and got the kicking they deserved in the election but over all they arent to blame for everything but for 95% of it.

Mr Stamper is correct in his appraisal. If we go back pre building boom our economy was moving nicely. Its almost amazing that so few can have such a ruinous affect on our country. Politicians Bankers and Developers gorging themselves on greed and gluttony. Many smelt a rat in the room but these people were also benefitting from the spin offs, general business etc, basically the country was awash with borrowed money, not a rainy day in sight.
One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.
He said, “My son, the battle is between two “wolves” inside us all.
One wolf is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority,and ego. The other wolf is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: “Which wolf wins?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”
It sems we fed the Bad Wolf!

Fine Fail didn’t get into power by themselves. They got big hefty votes every time.

The madness of the property boom was not confined solely to the upper echelons of NAMA developers.

In saying all that, they are largely to blame, through their magical and unique mix of corruption, greed and incompetence.

FFekin right they’re to blame! Couldnt organise a game of SCRABBLE! As for them trying to spin us dizzy with their bullshit -up to the week BIFFO the GOON sacked himself, they almost convinced their tiny brains that they could pull it off once again. No chance! The icing on the cake for me was Brian Lenihan’s speech “WE’VE TURNED THE CORNER” …FFsake! Europe and the IMF were pissin themselves laughing at our Government and rubbing themselves with joy at the prospect of what they could make out of us and here’s the FF Circus flying into town to negotiate a “Better deal for us” ..Their nothing but a joke, a shambles and an embarrassment to our good country! They should bow their heads in shame – the lot of em! Hopefully the only corner the FF circus clowns turn, is the one outta here!!!
FF RIP.

FF were in government and cannot avoid responsibility and therefore blame. When in government you have power and responsibility.

However, while politicians of all parties share blame, so does the electorate. Who voted for FF all those times? Who pushed FG to promise even more spending? Voters did. Until voters appreciate that government does not have a magic sock with an endless supply of gold in the toe, voters will keep voting for parties that promise more spending.

It’s still happening. We’re borrowing HUGE sums of money to spend on public sector pay and welfare that are way above international benchmarks. I’m neither anti public sector nor unfeeling to the unemployed, but the borrowing has to stop quickly and the reason it’s still going on is because the govt is afraid of the unpopularity they’ll achieve if they do the right thing for the state.

Finna Fail’s new slogan just announced… FINNA FAIL. “Fail by Name – Fail by Nature”

All during the Tiger Era, we had Ahern and co gloating about how great Ireland was, how strong it’s smart economy was, how we were the envy of other western nations and further afield.
In essence, Ahern claimed credit for the boom.
Now the the bust has truly landed (and has a long long way to go yet, due to FF incompetence re bank guarantees, IMF/ EU negotiations etc) the same FF party want to be only associated with the good times, I.E. claim credit but deflect criticism.

Well sorry Mr. Martin, we don’t buy that manure any more. You too are personally responsible, and you should take care to remember that many people in this nation will always view you and your party as economic traitors, incompetents and gombeens. Take your pick of the insults, they will all sit easily on your shoulders.

As a nation of proud people, it amazes me why we have not actually criminally prosecuted these fools for their failure to do the jobs they were paid to do.

Sure we voted FF in three times in a row! We were in cahoots with them. They just rubber stamped and shaped the policies that the public wanted. Now that the tide has turned they’re the worst guys in the world. Really demonstrates the political and economical naievity of Irish people in general.

The “bust” was going to happen suddenly with a bang. The problem that FF was that they were too busy handing on the sweets to everybody from the public up. They’ve never looked at developing other sectors of the economy outside of construction. It was all about the here and now, have a good time and we’ll worry about the future some other time and we loved it!

We have no culture of personal responsibility in this country and that includes who and what we vote for. When it all goes wrong we want somebody to blame and somebody else to bail us out and make it right.

Fianna Fail and the PD’s as the Government can be likened to a Titanic situation of a shipwreck.
They were the Captain of the Ship of State (which was actually a little boat but they spent like it was a cruise ship) steering it on a true course but unfortunately the Captain and his Bridge crew were partying hard with just the 1st Class passengers who wanted him to steer in various directions for their own amusement.
Alas then a serious collision with reality ensued and the 1st class passengers flew off in their private helicopters and were saved (Mostly), of the 2nd class a few got on deck to be rescued but everybody in 3rd and steerage were prevented from getting to safety by the gates of Bureaucracy and the gatekeepers-the financial institutions.
They are now forever below decks bailing out the ship and the Captain and his Bridge crew have been paid off and moved on to greener pastures.The new Captain and his Bridge crew are more interested in saying to the rescue services that they are bailing out more water than expected and arent they great rather than trying to help the remaining passengers.

Governments lose elections, the opposition parties don’t win them.

I agree that better management could have been in place, but I seriously doubt that the current government would have acted substantially differently.

When all this fades into the distance, people will look back on the Tiger years as a time of huge corruption and huge achievement in the Irish economy, but also a time when no-one was watching the store, or chose not to.

Governance is the province of Government, and whoever was in Government carries the can.

The Soldiers of Density tent at the Galway races.
Nuff said.

There should be a Bertie/ McCreevy option. They simply weren’t smart enough for the job.

All three main parties (FF, FG, Lab) had almost identical manifestos in 2002 and 2007. Since taking power in 2011 FG/Lab have continued exactly on with FF strategy. How can anybody not answer option C.

Is Fianna Fail to blame for everything? The collapse of the world economy? The shooting of JR? The Roswell landings? Joe Sheridan’s Goal against Louth last year? Let’s all blame Fianna Fail for the bad summers we’ve been having! And the snow last Christmas! My water pipes froze over. I blame them for that too! I blame Fianna Fail for Daniel O’Donnell and Cliff Richards! I blame Fianna Fail for Brussel sprouts, Long Masses, Jedward, and Loose Chippings! What is the point of those Loose Chippings?….

As a direct relation to De Valera, yes FF misled the Irish People and let the civil Sewrvice get out of control.

There is the qiestion of leadership. Mandela once said that sometimes leadership is telling the people when they are wrong. Think of, for example Churchill’s warnings against appeasement before WW2 even though it was a popular policy at the time. There was no leadership under FF and whether there will be under FG/LAB remains to be seen.

@SMcB It’s a limited poll with limited options so one can only reply within its parameters.

The 02-07 government was populist in that it gave the people what they wanted. That’s probably why it kept getting re-elected. A great many people in all walks of life benefited during the boom and very few cried stop, even fewer voted for anything different. The phrase “everyone partied” whilst derided, referred to the fact that almost everyone “got something” materially from the boom, at least at the time. The public sector got increased pay and perks, the private sector got lower taxes and greater incentives, those outside the workforce unemployed or retired got increases in welfare and pensions. The 2007 election was auction politics on steroids and the people voted for it in their masses, across the three main parties. The Labour party in particular sold its soul in its attempt to out-bid the big two with higher spending and lower taxes.

The FF government only began to behave responsibly after the bust hit. Cutbacks won’t make anyone popular but they reversed in two years the increases that had been allowed to accumulate over the ten previous. Whether it was the IMF or the markets proper nobody was going to finance a continued operation otherwise.

What did for FF in the main was the attitude problem and the profligacy of rogues within. If the house had been kept in better order party wise (the abuses stopped at source etc) the medicine would have been a lot easier to swallow for all concerned when it all hit the fan economically.

Good one Paul, mistakes and errors of judgement. Hilarious

How about a poll on the p*ss poor Opposition provided by FGombeens and Labour & others??

Each of their TDs was receiving cE200,000 per year including expenses. What did the taxpayer get for this money?

Did they consistently grill the Govt on bank regulation? Were they asking the right questions about Anglo? No they were more interested in Bertie and Celia’s carpets and curtains. Joe Higgins provided the usual slapstick which we all enjoy but is it good Opposition?

Surely if these people were not asking relevant questions in Opposition the same mistakes as FF if they were in Government at the time. Look at their spend spend policies at the ’07 election. They didn’t see the crash coming so why should believe they would have done any better if in Government than FF.

As someone who remembers the inept Spring/FitzGerald coalition of the ’80s it’s

What about our glorious media who got their collective knickers in a twist over Tribunal trivia and clamoured for more spending while the real problems were developing, barely noticed, hardly reported? Useless shower!

Opinions aside, this is probably the most “leading” question ever polled on this site. The question and answers alike.

Disappointing.