There are so many things wrong with our education system it is hard to know where to start. Especially when the quality it produces is actually quite good. This is far out-weighed though the lack of humanity in the system, where excellent young people are alienated by the system and forced into categorised boxes.

This at a time when Guidance Counselling allocation for schools has been removed putting at risk the most vulnerable and marginalised. Government promises on this issue ring pretty hollow.

Agree Fintan we need resources in school, and we need Guidance Counsellors – however, in my experience, guidance counsellors are more career guidance people (although they are available to talk to students about any issues), and would not generally be trained counsellors.

I believe what we need is a multi-pronged and proactive approach, where all young people are treated with an awareness of emotional and social development (because everybody in the school community has the proper training to do this); where children and young people have as part of their curriculum support and training to understand their emotions and mind and development and to look after their mental health, and a proper system for recognising children and young people that need help and making sure they get the emotional support to grow and develop emotionally and socially. For example, if somebody was being disruptive you would look at what was going on for that person and work to help them, whatever that involved, rather than punish them – this could involve the school having a group of teachers trained in how to work with them, and what’s called a Behaviour Unit – but all for a positive outcome, rather than punishment or expulsion.

Training Teens to Handle Emotions Improves Mental Health:
http://www.cfah.org/hbns/archives/getDocument.cfm?documentID=22507

Unfortunately you’re experience is outdated. Almost all Guidance Counsellors have training in counselling, hence the change in name from Career Guidance which is only a part of the job. The sneaky cut to this service in schools is a disgrace and hurts those most in need of help.
Further, the growth in schools of pastoral care teams has been undermined by a moritorium on the appointment of year heads in particular has increased the likelihood of students falling through the cracks. Schools might be where kids spend most of their day, but it’s increasingly difficult to solve the problems they face.

Sorry Fintan, I was going by my son’s school – a large school where the principal told me that the Guidance Counsellors did not have training as counsellors. I am very glad if they do (should we say sadly did) in most other schools. I agree it is a real shame that they have been taken away from schools. In my son’s school they were such nice and sympathetic people.

However, most research with young people shows that they would never go to the school Guidance Counsellor for emotional problems anyway – certainly neither my son and his friends would in a million years – they would fear somebody somehow knowing – and when you are out of class or don’t leave with your mates at the end of the day, questions will be asked. I still believe that the kind of school training like the Mind Out programme that the Government piloted in border counties, where students can take part without necessarily revealing anything about themselves, that teaches them about stages of adolescent development, what good mental health is, how to look after it, how important it is to seek help if necessary. Here’s some quotes from an evaluation of the Mind Out programme (I am not specifically advocating this programme – in fact it could perhaps be better, but something like it)

“The module focuses explicitly on positive mental health issues, and forms an integral part of a more general
health education programme. The aims of the programme materials that have been developed are to:
■ identify a range of coping strategies available to young people in stressful situations;
■ identify rational thinking skills for use in controlling negative emotions;
■ raise awareness of feelings and how to deal with them positively;
■ raise awareness of sources of support, both informal and formal, for young people in distress;
■ explore attitudes towards mental health issues and towards seeking help.

Students who had participated in Mind Out —
■ Were more confident about what to do if someone in their
class were in distress (talk to a teacher or another adult, do
not ignore the problem or avoid the person).
■ Showed an increased awareness of a range of voluntary and
statutory support services and organisations.
■ Demonstrated greater compassion towards a young person
showing symptoms of distress.
■ Felt themselves more likely to engage in constructive helpseeking behaviour if they were in distress (talking to a friend, talking to a teacher, contacting an outside organisation or professional for help).

These positive effects remained even when intervention students were compared with other students who had taken part in a standard health education programme over the same time period, suggesting that Mind Out can yield benefits over and above programmes without an explicit focus on mental and emotional issues.

The willingness of otherwise of young people to discuss their individual issues is not my point, rather the ability of a school to create an environment where such issues can be safely be handled is being stripped out because of short term think at the highest level.

Sorry Fintan, I couldn’t agree with you more! We need more people like you who care about this stuff. Best wishes.

I agree Heather – the training is for everybody and teaches you to ask the question directly if you think there is any possibility a person might be considering suicide – which before the training I would have worried might have put the thought into their minds, but this is not the case. If everybody had this training, we could save a lot more lives…

I cant think of any campaign highlighting depression/suicide on TV or radio compared to road safety, smoke kills and alcohol awareness campaigns ….it would be great to get a Gay Byrne or whoever to really go for it….that statistic is shocking in all fairness

a certain number of road deaths are suicide as well.

There needs to be more funding going to mental health issues and reducing the stigma associated with counseling.

And yes young men are the most affected and this is probably due to the taboo of “talking about you’re feelings” Talking is a sign of strength – FACT

Don’t think stopping giving money to charities in Africa etc is the answer. Spending what money we have more effectively is a much smarter option.

Link here

http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/player.html?20120816,3368777,3368777,flash,257

I couldn’t agree with you more Alan. It is however being noted in many research and educational quarters.

It may be that boys and men are brought up not to talk about their emotions or look for help, which is seen as a major protective factor.

A government report out a while ago, can’t remember what it was, said also that boys were disaffected in education from junior school level – despite the junior curriculum having being revised to be more person-centred – the report found that many teachers were still teaching standing up talking at a class, despite guidelines about more engaging techniques. I believe that boys and young men are being let down by our educational system, which does not seem to suit their style of learning, and then they are being punished for not learning, or misbehaviour, and pressure piles up on them.

We need first of all to truly listen to them and find out what is the matter, what makes them so unhappy, and how we can make their lives better. Study after study has shown that boys and young men are quite capable of telling us about the things that cause stress and anxiety in their lives and what changes they would like to see, in the right kind of set-up – we need to start doing something to address their issues in a meaningful way.

It seems to me that we must also be more forgiving and kind to our young men, and understand that they may naturally tend to push boundaries and perhaps even present very challenging behaviours at certain stages of their lives. It’s always been this way – they need our understanding, support and love, rather than our condemnation. Getting pressure and punishment in a school system that you don’t enjoy, then feeling not a welcome part of that group, perhaps ending up out of school, perhaps getting into trouble, these can all lead to feelings of isolation, failure and despair. We need to love and care about each and every one of these young men and do much much better by them. The first step is to listen to them.

this is so true. Well said.

Oh Anne I am so sorry, that is really tragic. I feel gutted for you and your family – those beautiful young women.
We’ve GOT to make it a priority to reach ALL our young people with support and information so they know they are not alone, that there is something they can do, that they have support, that other people have been there and come out the other side…

Complete nonsense. There are some structural differences between the male and female brain, but to say that females have many more speech centres is just nonsensical. The biology of the brain is irrelevant.

In some parts of Iran, grown men hold hands with each other, are encouraged to write poetry, and if they’re not emotionally open they’re considered shady and untrustworthy, while women are expected to be emotionally cold, and if they’re not cold with their children they’re considered poor mothers. Now what gene do these people have that makes their brains operate oppositely to the Western world?

It’s social imprinting, not biological.

well jimmy I know where your speech center is situated.scans of both male and female brains during conversations prove my point.do so research,holding hands is not the same as dealing with depression in Ireland.try and keep it real! you ask my 12 yr told hold hands with his friend and he’ll laugh at you.it has never been part of our society so why should we do something you believe should be?

Bob, I totally understand what you are saying – the kind of open safe house you can just walk in and talk would be something like a Jigsaw Project I think – see http://www.jigsaw.ie
I agree also with you Jimmy that nurture plays a huge role, more than nature.

We do have to meet people where they are at, but I do think there is a wealth of experience out there on working with young people, young men, young women, in a way that will help them to feel better and be more empowered to look after their own mental health. I know many young men would run a mile from anything that was about talking, but on the other hand in the right safe environment where they are working as a group with no pressure to speak, reveal personal feelings or be or do anything, I have seen young people of both sexes talk plenty about the emotional difficulties they face in life and what could make it better.

Bob’s really honest response says it can be difficult to talk, but that there need to be safe, open chilled places where you can do just that. I agree and think there is also a place for training in looking after your mental health (with no compulsion to ‘talk about your feelings’, but a safe space to do so if you want to) in our schools – this will reach the young people who may feel too fearful, intimidated, ‘awkward’ or whatever to go along to a counsellor or therapy group… Even just listening could help a young person realise they are not alone with their feelings, and give them pointers how to make things better, and in some cases let them know how much seeking help has helped others in a similar situation.

jimmy,you are to logical

Your wrong about the ADHD part pal, grow up and get a life.

Yes, of course. 525 are confirmed deaths by suicide, there was also approximately 123 unconfirmed suicides in 2010 so imagine that figure was similar in 2011.

It affects so many people, it’s shocking that the government ignore these statistics.

Hey Jone, I think there is some semantic difference among people using the term mental health. It’s kind of changed to mean just that – mental health – rather than the old polarisation between completely well on the one hand and having a mental illness on the other.

It would seem to me that by definition if you take your own life you have been suffering from mental ill health. To reduce the stigma of the old definition of mental health / mental ill health, people sometime use terms now like well-being or wellness. The fact remains that most of us will have mental health issues at some point in our lives – whether depression, anxiety, stress or whatever. It is all a matter of degrees. We can all look after our own mental health to help keep ourselves well, and it can be learned – indeed preventative work is best. This approach is I think seen as the way forward now for mental health reform in our country: http://www.mentalhealthreform.ie/home/mental-health-in-ireland/

There are many studies where young people themselves are asked about their mental health, and I personally think those findings are more useful than any ideas people like us may have…

The latest, My World Survey, (Ireland’s first comprehensive study of youth mental health, involved 14,306 young people, who describe what life factors affect their mental health (eg school seems to be a major cause of stress and anxiety). The study finds that suicidal thoughts, rates of self-harm and suicide attempt were higher in young adults who did not talk about their problems or seek help.
http://www.headstrong.ie/sites/default/files/My%20World%20Survey%202012%20Online.pdf

Some children also fall through the cracks and are completely forgotten about.

Personally I think that severe homophobic bullying in our schools is partially to blame for these high figures.

Nope – try posting again Keith please.

I disagree with suppression of feelings so directly, its more about,unable to deal with prob,so we seperate from it and shelve it! which is fine for a while,until we run out of shelves then the whole lots collapses!