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Dublin: 11 °C Thursday 20 June, 2013

Kenny confirms New Year action on abortion issue

Meanwhile, the Pro Life Campaign has said that any legislation would be a “first step in achieving abortion on demand”.

Pro-choice protests outside the Dáil last month.
Pro-choice protests outside the Dáil last month.
Image: Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland

TAOISEACH ENDA KENNY has told RTÉ that action on the abortion issue will be taken in the New Year.

He said that he did not want the matter “left hanging around interminably”. He said his Government would deal with it “practically and credibly, giving everybody the opportunity to have their full say”.

The Cabinet is to make a decision on how to respond to the Expert Group’s report and recommendations at a meeting tomorrow.

Earlier today, Fine Gael TD Eoghan Murphy called for a free vote for TDs on the topic so politicians could vote against the party line if they so wished. Kenny ruled out the possibility of such a vote.

During today’s debate at Leinster House, Children’s Minister Frances Fitzgerald reiterated the coalition’s commitment to bring “clarity” on the matter.

However, Junior Minister Kathleen Lynch warned that the expected mix of regulation and legislation will not be enough.

“Mark my words,” she told the Dáil. “There will be another incident, which we will have to come back and face this issue again. Because what we are about to do is way too narrow.”

Despite reports about the likely restrictive nature of expected proposals, the Pro Life Campaign has issued a statement this evening, warning the Government that any legislation for the X Case would be a “first step in achieving abortion on demand”.

“Claims that legislation for the X case is a compromise between pro-choice and pro-life sides is nothing more than a political ploy to make any legislation appear restrictive,” said Dr Ruth Cullen. “The reality is, however, that any legislation for the X case would blur the distinction between life saving medical interventions in pregnancy and induced abortion, the sole aim of which is to intentionally end the life of the baby.”

Meanwhile, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Health Anand Grover spoke at a Woman’s Rights conference in Dublin today, stating he had concerns about women’s health in Ireland following the death of Savita Halappanavar.

He told RTÉ News that abortion should be an option for women where their health is impacted and not only where the life of the mother is at risk.

“That is the only way you actually make sure that a woman’s right to health is preserved and a woman’s right to health services realised,” he added.

READ: Labour accused of using abortion as ‘cover to deflect from Budget’

MORE: Sinn Féin strips Peadar Toibín of committee chairmanship over X Case vote

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Comments (41 Comments)

  • The same Clinical Psychologist, Dr Ruth Cullen?
    I’m so glad this debate is informed by the right people, instead of, you know, the obstetricians and midwives…

    Reply
  • Meanwhile, the Pro Life Campaign has said that any legislation would be a “first step in achieving abortion on demand”.

    Let’s hope so!

    Reply
  • Good man Kenny, why procrastinate today when you can do it tomorrow..

    Reply
  • For new year read march! When it gets to march it’ll turn in June. When June comes another excuse will be made and it’ll be this time next year and still nothing will be done. We want it Kenny and we want it now.

    Reply
  • Did Kenny actually say what ‘New Year ‘ he was talking about ? Next new year or one sometime and somewhere in the future

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  • It will come in certain conditions guys

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  • I thought GilBore said they would decide before Xmas? In fact he said it yesterday. And now Cajones Kenny sticks his finger in GilBore’s eye and says in the New Year. This omnishambles govt is coming apart at the seams.

    Seanad vote on the budget on Wednesday, Labour party meeting in April could likely dethrone GilBore, property tax in July, budget in October. Any one of these 4 could bring this arrogant shower down to earth.

    Enjoy the New Year Inda because I suspect it’s your last. Ever.

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    • Decision of the cabinet before Christmas but the Dáil timetable is full so legislation can only be debated and enacted in the New Year. There’s no contradiction between Gilmore and Kenny here.

      Reply
    • We’ll see David.

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    • And when Gilbore is replaced you can be guaranteed Quinn,Rabbite et al will be two faced and come out and say “we hated been in government, we were looking at strategies to get rid of gilmore and get back to our roots..yada yada” In a desperate desperate attempt to win back voters before next election. But it won’t work.

      Reply
    • If GilBore walks the plank his partner in the two other failed parties (workers and DL) will walk with him. There’s no love lost between Keaveney and Rabbitte. They hate each other.

      Keaveney should seize the initiative and oust GilBore before the February deadline to stop the qualifying for the ministerial pensions. He should replace the entire front bench. If they don’t get a roll back on some of the cuts he should withdraw but support FG for 6 months or so untilLabour can be seen to regain some street cred

      Reply
    • Scp1.
      Clearly a decision has been decided on to have a decision making meeting about said decision.
      The deciders will then put the decision to some decidees for a decision review.
      And so on and so forth.

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    • Little Jim – u touting for a job as govt advisor? Your comment is ur cv. Think u have it sir :-)

      Reply
    • David that would be good news if it were true

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  • Horse, gate and bolted…as usual politicians in Ireland wait till its too late to do something fundamental.

    It’s the same old BS out of a different hole.

    That poor woman is still dead and all because of some stupid religious fear that can’t be got past.

    Reply
  • 900 children harmed in the womb by drug & alcohol (conservative est). Yet not one public health leaflet to educate women on the risks of alcohol use ( the most dangerous of all) in pregnancy ! Of these 900 – 80% will suffer mental illness in teen & adult life. Yet Ireland does not want to speak about it!! To all pro-life & pro-choice you can sit at the same table on calling for Public Health information to educate – help prevent the human & social cost of FASD

    Reply
  • Everyone is to have their say and no free vote for TDs. I think we can all figure out where this political juggernaut is likely to end up – eventually! Oh, and Journal, how about leading the way in accurate, logical nomenclature and referring to the two sides as “pro choice”& “anti choice” or even “pro life” & “anti life”. Whoever heard of a debate with only “pro” sides?

    Reply
    • Hi Kate,

      The use of Pro Life here is because the group to which Dr Ruth Cullen belongs is actually called ‘Pro Life Campaign’.

      And anti-life would not be accurate for those who are pro-choice. Just one more hotly-contested factor in the debate, I’m afraid.

      Sinead

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    • Anti-life?!!!???!!! What are u on?

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    • @ Sinead – anti life being a daft moniker: yes, my point exactly. But obviously badly expressed, apologies for that. However my point was in relation to the two sides, not just factions/groups within them.

      Reply
    • Kate, it’s fairly simple really. They are defined from their perspective, and in 95% of the cases, those are what people choose to call the side they are on.

      It honestly cannot be that confusing to you to warrant a jab at the journal or the person who wrote the article, and besides, the way that Sinead wrote the article was from a point of neutrality. To call one group “pro” and the other “anti” would have a pretty clear indication of the journalist’s opinion on the matter, and then people commenting would actually have an excuse to moan about an article, not just making snide comments about semantics that nobody else cares about.

      Reply
  • The UN of course would love to advise Ireland. Its worth noting that in Grovers country, India, a country where religious minded and god fearing people live, about 11 million abortions are carried out in a year. Moreover, due to and by undergoing abortions, nearly 20000 young mothers face death annually. There are widespread gender selection abortions, so what has that to do with women’s rights?

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    • 11m? Can you back this up, because I’ve seen two sources report a figure that is nowhere near 11m?
      Also, gender selection termination is illegal in India, punishable by fine or imprisonment.

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    • Can you deal with the question RE the number of terminations, which you claim to be around 11m please?

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    • I wasn’t arguing with your stats on deaths, as this correct (although your view that its a lot is inaccurate; their maternal rate is still better than that of many developed countries, owing to the high population).
      Also, I’m not arguing either of the articles you’ve posted here; however I would argue that the numbers almost level for both male/female termination, owing to the fact that early foetal terminations are usually assigned as female due to lack of sex organs.

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    • Paddy — You are a moral disgrace.

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    • @ Peter Tarasov
      Thanks for the complement Peter. I’ve always worked hard at being a moral disgrace, rather than its nemesis, an amoral disgrace. How do you classify yourself? Any clue in the clinched fist and the RedPeter label?

      Reply
    • @ James Connelly
      You are right James, the true figure seems to be 6.7 million. My mistake came about because I saw the published figure of 6.7, but then I saw there are 5.2 million illegal backstreet abortions. I assumes these were not included in the 6.7, but it appears they were. One way or another, a sad account, a perpetual holocaust. Is Ireland biting at the bit to follow suit? I for one hope Enda keeps FG’s promise!

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    • @ James Connelly
      The Maternal Motility Rate (MMR) for Ireland is 6, and the MMR for India is 212. A mother dies in India every 10 minutes. These are the WHO figures, I know there is an argument that Ireland’s figure may be a little higher.

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    • what are you trying to say paddy? Italy with a more liberal abortion law has an MMR of 7.

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    • @ Gavin McGuinness
      There are two important things that our MMR says:
      1) Abortion is not necessary to make Ireland safer for mothers.
      2) Countries like India, who have their own difficulties, should not interfere with our decision as a free country, to do our best at keeping abortion at the gate.
      It is true both Italy and Spain have good MMR’s, despite their abortion regime.
      The abuse of Savitas tragedy in Galway by the pro-choice lobby, and all of the misleading information published by the Irish times, attempting to make us look shameful in the international media, was disgraceful and misleading of the true situation in Ireland where we can be proud of our efforts at respecting all human life. We are not the laughing stock, but a beckon of hope for many.

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    • @ Paddy, even if MMR is good, no pregnant woman should have to die simply to protect the foetus. The involuntary death of a single woman because of concern over foetal preservation is unacceptable.

      My personal value is this. The life of a single woman, including young girls impregnated by rapists, is worth more than all the foetuses combined. It is my personal view that the life, health and welfare of a pregnant woman should take precedence over the interests of the foetus.

      Favouring the foetus over the pregnant woman is inhumane and it is a denial of the human rights of the woman.

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    • Developed countries where termination is freely available: (MMR)
      Italy 4; Greece 3; Estonia 2; Czech Republic 5; Austria 4; Slovakia 6; Netherlands 6; Sweden 4; Spain 6; Singapore 3…
      All have termination on demand, all have a lower MMR than most countries who have restrictions.
      What does that tell you?

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    • What I’m suggesting paddy is the use of MMR is irrelevant we can give women the choice and maintain our standards as being a safe place to give birth. Our low MMR is down to the brilliant staff in hospitals across tje country and the high standards we set in the educational facilities here.
      As for Indian interference, they have every right to question our actions over the last 20 years.

      Reply
    • @ Gavin McGuinness
      The only reason the MMR figure is an issue, is because many pro-choice people claim that abortion is needed to save lives, this is not true. I agree our doctors are among the best, we have argued for years that they are better than most, because they get to deal with all of the difficult cases that abortion is used to avoid in some other countries.
      The Indian MMR rate, together with deaths in abortion for mothers, should cause them to imitate us, as they did with their constitution, not the other way around.
      But I’m not in such fighting mood today, seeing that Enda wasn’t man enough to stand up to his promises yesterday.
      You may not see it in the journal comments, but I assure you a sleeping giant of public opinion awakened yesterday, and the next few months shall be terrible.

      Reply
  • Eleven of Ireland’s leading psychiatrists have written to TDs and Senators, warning them against legislation that would make a threat of suicide a ground for legal abortion. The letter points out that “termination of pregnancy is not a psychiatric treatment for suicidality, nor is it mentioned as such in any of the major textbooks of psychiatry”.

    Their letter also expresses the belief that “offering an abortion to a distressed person who is psychiatrically ill would be strongly ill-advised since the person’s capacity to make important life decisions is frequently impaired”.

    The letter was signed by Jacqueline Montwill, consultant psychiatrist (CP) for Mayo Mental Health Services; Eugene Breen, CP, Mater University Hospital; Alan Byrne, CP, Naas; Patricia Casey, professor of psychiatry Mater/UCD; Ciaran Clarke, CP, Barringtons Limerick; Brid Corkery, CP, St Stephen’s Hospital Cork; Brian Houlihan, consultant child psychiatrist at Children’s University Hospital Temple Street, Dublin; Richelle Kirrane, CP, John Connolly Hospital; Martin Mahon, CP, John Connolly Hospital; Bernie McCabe, CP, Navan Mental Health Services, and Geraldine Lyster, CP, St Brigid’s Hospital, Ardee.

    Reply
    • that is their opinion and they may even be right but the fact of the matter is that voted to allow it twice in referendums

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    • The list is useful. A pregnant woman with suicidal ideation will know which psychiatrists to avoid.

      I would be interested in knowing the religious status of each psychiatrist.

      One would have to be concerned about the effect of religious dogma on the practice of psychiatry.

      Reply
  • Don’t care what people think kenny won’t allow this true regardless at the end of the day it’s the mothers decision if she wants the baby or not I just think it would be better all round if it was legal here cause least if a woman decides to have an abortion then she will be near loved ones she won’t have to travel to England to have the procedure although sayin that way out health service is might be better off in the uk can someone explain this suicidal tendencies to me though I thought that there was services provided for afterwards to help the patient

    Reply

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