Actually its real name is “Doire Cholmcille” and was renamed London-Derry in 1613 after it recieved a royal charter by James Ist. The name Doire Cholmcille translates as Oakwood of Colmcille, so we can assume that it derived its name when he founded an abbey there in. Given he lived from 521 – 597 we can conclude that it was called Derry for over 1000 years before the planters renamed it London-Derry.

In 1984, when Londonderry City Council was renamed Derry City Council the local Apprentice Boys issued a Press Statement denouncing the name change.

The reporters were all confused and eventually a guy from the Daily Mail rang them up and asked, “can you explain why the Apprentice Boys of DERRY are opposed to the City Council being renamed from Londonderry to DERRY?”

He Just wanted to piss off Sinn Fein, Which I’m sure he did.

The list he was reading out probably said “Londonderry”.

Shades of “I’m Ron Burgundy?” though. But there you go.

I read this article last night and was that annoyed that I couldn’t string two words together in this response thread. My poor wife had to listen to me rant on about it over dinner. My annoyance is somewhat hard to explain. Being a Derry native you have a sense of pride in what the city and county stands for. It was the cradle of the Civil rights movement and of course that awful Sunday. More so I think my annoyance is directed at the stupidity of such an “intelligent man”. I know a lot of people above are saying so what get over it. However of you have not seen the trouble or lived in it then I can’t blame them for not understanding. We the people of DERRY have fought tooth and nail over the last 40/50 years to achieve civil rights for all and in doing so were able to change everything ( bar the official UK name, which can only be changed by the Queen) to city of Derry. Also one more point to add, the area I grew up in was 50/50 with regard religion however 100% of the people called it Derry. Now I don’t know if it’s a case that they didn’t want to offend anyone or of they actually accepted the name. Rant over

Doesn’t he know the first six letters of Londonderry are silent?

Anyone who says ‘some of my best friends are’ or ‘I have many gay/jewish/black/Israeli/whatever friends’ you just know they aren’t telling the truth!

That article says he’s a courageous friend of Israel. You said he’s the leader of the Friends of Israel in Ireland. You tried to twist the truth and now we can all see your true colours.

Oh so its only Jews that can’t be Irish. I see now. No desire to see your facebook page or who some of your best diverse friends are Cal. I’ll take your word for it that you embrace us all. Now off with ya!

Cal, Alan Shatter is NOT the leader of the Irish Friends of Israel. You just made that up and it shows how desperate you are to smear him.

So he disagrees with you on Israel and he got the name of a city wrong. Now you want to revoke his citizenship and you’re calling him a traitor. Do you ACTUALLY realise how hysterical you’re sounding?

For your own good, calm down.

We just called it stroke city when at uni in belfast, seemed to keep everybody happy.

Cal you are so incredibly ignorant. Report me all you want but I think you will find that you are indeed the muppet and not me. As has already been pointed out, the only reason you brought Israel into this is because Shatter is Jewish. Plain and simple, like you I guess. Reading between the lines its obvious that you don’t regard non-catholics ‘Irish’

Micheal. West Brits are Irish. You could be English in Ireland, but that wouldn’t make you a west Brit. Paisley wouldn’t even be referred to as a west Brit. It’s very much about a certain type in the 26 that would be called an Uncle Tom in America.

Judge Seán McBride, a native of Co. Donegal, took grave exception to the use of the term “Londonderry” in Monaghan District Court. He made his feelings clear when a solicitor read out his client’s address as “Grosvenor Road, Londonderry”. Judge McBride stopped him, saying, “I’m grossly insulted by the reference to Londonderry in this court. John Hume, I believe, sorted all that out years ago in the Houses of Parliament in Westminster and I do not want to hear it in my court again”.
http://www.emigrant.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9439&Itemid=46

And by the way…. I support the rights of Palestinians to a separate state on international lines but I don’t like how whenever Shatter is mentioned here, people start going on about Israel.

So anyone who doesn’t agree with Cal Mooney isn’t Irish? Well, Cal, this country is a democracy where differences of opinion are tolerated. So, in fact, you’re the one who isn’t sounding so Irish.

By the way, it’s Derry all the way for me and I’m sure Shatter was just quoting from some news report or something like that. Get over it.

His hatred from the wishes of the people of Derry??? Calm down, for God’s sake! You’re the one showing hatred here, suggesting that his citizenship be revoked.

How could Shatter make such a mistake as Londonderry is in New Hampshire, USA

The Apprentice boys of DERRY, Guard old DERRY’s walls, FFS even the most staunch loyalists refer to it as Derry but no not our Minister Shatter he would rather get his kicks out of making silly comments than doing his job!

Some Irish citizens (on both sides of the border) will have found it mildly offensive. I’m guessing most Irish citizens won’t care. It doesn’t show him in a good light as it would have been easier just to call the city ‘Derry’ and then there wouldn’t have been an issue. I would gave thought that as a professional politician its always better to ensure that you don’t offend any citizens given a choice.

And finally, when has the Irish people expressed any wish about Jerusalem?

A few years ago I was living in England and went to spend the weekend at a friends house in Wales. His mother (a very mild mannered middle aged lady) asked me if I had ever been to Londonderry. I told her that I referred to it as Derry, not Londonderry. She looked at me blankly and said in a very innocent manner “Well that’s not what it says on the map”. I could t argue with that one ;-)

Coming from the.man who told protesters over the household charge to get a life, I’m not surprised by this ignorant statement. Kudos for publishing TheJournal

Pathetic. This has nothing to do with Israel. You’re mentioning it because you want to draw attention to his Jewishness.

The man is a knob/knobhead.

Whether you are a Loyalist Londonderry type of Irish Nationalist Derry type, we all can agree with that I feel.

Between himself and Phil Hogan he’ll grind the electorate down by stupid little jibes, acts and general disdain for people and will knock plenty of votes from FG.

This guy is an idiot!

Anyone who saw the symphysiotomy survivor on Vincent Browne last night would’ve assumed that the Minister for Justice’s first order of business today would’ve been dealing with that.
Nopes, he decides to inject himself into a no-win debate about whether it’s called Derry or Londonderry!

This really is the sort of thing an Irish Cabinet Minister, like it or like it not, has to be careful about. It’s an extraordinarily sensitive issue for thousands of Irish people
(Myself included btw… May have called him several variations of “Blueshirt” a few times when I initially heard) & he really should be more careful.

I once had a golden Labrador that liked long walks on the beach and… Oh sorry thought this was the place for really unimportant stories!!

I think we have bigger challenges than this to worry about on this island of ours at the moment.

I refuse to deign to such imperialistic aul nonsense by renaming an old city by putting “London” before it. Did you ever hear of such nonsense in your life?

Even most Loyalists call it Derry unless speaking officially.

Have to laugh at the person above who said “only Catholics drop the “london” from the name” Just shows that the religious bigotry is all from a certain element of the Protestant side these days as nobody else in this country really gives a shit about religion anymore.

He’s not an Irish man if he doesn’t accept Palestine as a separate state?! To paraphrase another witty Jew – I wouldn’t want to be in any club you’d accept me in, Cal.

If Shatter said it to have some kind of juvenile dig at SF then he is even further out of touch than I thought. You don’t have to be a SF supporter to find his wording worrying from a Minister for justice and defense and indicative of a certain mindset prevalent in FG.

Reminds me of the Romeo and Juliet quote

“What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.”

I don’t think I’ve ever heard an Irishman refer to Derry as londonderry. Where did the civil servant who wrote this report from? Frankfurt? Even so, to any Irishman worth his salt the word londonderry would stick out like a sore thumb. nnBut then if we ever need evidence that Fine Gael are the west wing of the Tory party this is just another example.

Grow up, move on, a story for bigots, etc.! How many people here would be outraged if we used Queenstown instead of Cobh during the recent titanic celebrations! How many cities and towns did we rename after the Brits left this part of our country! Could we not grow up or move on and accept our invaders imposed names? No chance, but our political class only get up in arms and use these issues to serve their own purposes. They showed during Martin McGuinness presidential campaign that they couldn’t move on or grow up! might this Be a selective use of victims for cynical use of real pain and suffering of real people. Have we heard any of these politicians make noise in these matters since? No! The northern nationalist are told by such “slips” that they must accept less than what we achieved and they are criminalised by these same politicians and media establishment types as they bend over backwards not to raise British injustices in another part of or country not so long ago! It’s not ok to call it Londonderry in the Dail, and Shatter needs to make apologies to the majority community in Derry but I doubt that will happen as it suits his west Brit agenda to make a point on the status of partition, but he is in a dwindling minority with this type of opinion thank god!

Duberlin…brilliant…. :)

Funny that the same people who object to those finding the dead baby jokes offensive are themselves feeling offended over a placename!

Doire a thugaimse air, an t-ainm ceart!

Getting red thumbs for stating facts – lol to whoever they’re from. I’m afraid we cant change historical facts whether or not they suit an agenda.

He comes across as a posh tory to me in everything he does. Totally out of touch. Could he not concentrate on fixing our pathetic court sentences instead of this stroke city nonsense.

Slip of the tongue my arse. That was a very concious effort to use the term Londonderry – a name that has never been featured on signposts in the state he is a minister for. There was intent in using it.

Looks like the blue shirts are making a comeback

maybe we should give him another name.firstly, im quite sure he didnt make a mistake and as someone mentioned above he is an irish minister in the Dáil and should be familiar with how the majority of irish people refer to it and want it ref to as. He, as a serving minister of the Irish public, should first and foremost represent the views of that electorate. Furthermore, he should be well aware, as im sure he is, of the emotive power and indeed symbolism surrounding such terminology. Or is he as stupid as he comes across on a weekly basis???
He could have ref to it as Stroke/ city if he really wanted to and we could ref to him as stroke/idiot .

Yes, I have to say I find it to be an extremely irritating slip, set my teeth on edge. It’s just disrespectful to the struggle of Irish people who live there, particularly through the Troubles. Just call it Derry while your ‘at home’ would you, Shatter! Or as someone else, I think mistakenly, but I think appropriately said, Shitter.

funny to see this today as I heard him speaking on the radio yesterday and thought he has a British accent. Not that its wrong to have a British accent.. if you are a B. citizen but he is Irish!
I remember getting off the Ferry in Belfast a few yrs ago and asking directions for Derry, it was kinda scary but I did it and to be honest the men never blinked an eye.

As the Divine Comedy song says “I was born in Londonderry, I was born in Derry City too”. I’m surprised that this is even considered newsworthy.

Going back to your 1st comment Cal. Should Alan Shatter apologise to everyone in NI? Wouldn’t the majority in the 6 counties, a significant minority of the island’s population be unmoved, perhaps even quietly admiring of his wee faux pas?

Hater’s gonna hate

Shatter is a fool for feeding the bigots this non story.

You have a problem with what you call west Brits? Ireland for the Irish is it?

I have never called Derry ”londonderry in my life ….. How has he come to make such a slip up ? Is he really Irish this man ?

I wonder if this thread will set a Journal record for people getting wound up, going off topic and stoking deeply held nationalist sensibilities with a big Unionist stick?nOh and Shatter is a legislator and he takes his lead from existing British legislation most of the time. That’s probably why he said it. Nothing too sinister I’d imagine :)nThat said, he is still a total tit. This is the Republic and it’s called Derry :)

Either a slip of the tongue or he’s looking for a reaction, who knows! Interesting stuff all the same :)

i think its a bit of an overreaction to be honest, i have friends that live there and refer to it as londonderry, i refer to it as derry…it could a slip of the tongue, or whatever..

Was a deliberate jab from an arrogant and spiteful man who is a disgrace to Ireland , this sick Goverment , & himself!

It is a very big deal to hear a Minister for Justice use Londonderry in Dail Eireann. I was watching it and I think it was deliberate. Michael Collins, the falsely claimed founder of FG would have him shot for less

Dublinderry :)

The occupation of Ireland’s northern counties is illegal. When your colonial masters change the name of one of your towns it is illegal. It is insulting when a minister in our Dail uses the terminology of the colonial rulers. Take it down from the mast Irish traitor. The anglicisation of Doire is bad enough without adding the Empire’s capital to its name.

Its long been known, that Fine Gael are the Conservative Party for the constituency of Southern Ireland !!

I notice queen Bessie is on her way over to the six counties to visit her Scottish Planter friends. Maybe she will do something useful at the end of her long and unproductive life and undo the “London” part of the wonderful city and County of Derry. Maybe she will notice that the British imposed roadsigns have the London part painted over by the locals and she will wonder why.

What a plonker, so far behind in the times, same as the rest of them

Slip of the tongue, some people say. I’ve never called the city Londonderry in ordinary conversation, except when discussing the naming dispute itself. I can’t for the life of me think how he used that name in ‘error’, unless he’s used to referring to it as Londonderry among his pro-partition neo-unionist palls.

This isn’t some ignorant county councilor or backbencher, who was probably brought up with an inferiority complex. There are many people who feel embarrassed about the past, and even about their nationality (seeing ‘Oireland’ as inherently inferior to the ‘mainland’. This is our minister for justice and defense. How can he serve in his cabinet position if he’s got such contempt for the people of Ireland?

I honestly am not that concerned about his support for Israel, which I personally deplore, because as an issue that has divided the west neatly in half it will never realistically compromise his ability to do his job. THIS issue is far more worrying.

Alan shatter is a sly and sneaky, I don’t particularly like the man, something evil about him, and for the record it is Derry, you old fart,

Effin Dope

@ Hugh O’Connell

My I ask why you removed some of the posts from yesterday on this thread, namely those made by Cal and whoever it was that he was debating with. We are after all adults and not children – sticks and stones and all of that!! Also may I ask what was wrong with my post that you felt the need to remove it? Surely you could not have a problem with someone posting historical facts regardeing the etiology of the name of Derry.

What do you expect from a fine gaeler…they gave away the north of ireland to the British people in the first place… and are doing a great job giving our sovereinty away now to the Germans.. we could be calling Dublin,
Berlindublin one of the days yet…

We West Brits will have our day!

If memory serves me correctly the official name for the city is Derry/Londonderry? What is the big problem with him calling it by one of it’s official names? Can’t see the problem myself even though I would call it Derry myself.

I couldn’t give two hoots about his religion, I notice some people bringing it up in the thread. His reference, intended or not, was offensive either way, coming from someone who is serving as OUR JUSTICE minister no less.
And dragging his religion into it in an attempt to corrupt the validity of the clear offence caused by it doesn’t distract from this fact.

What’s all the fuss about? As it says in the article, “Legally, the city and county are called Londonderry while the local government district is called Derry.” If they can sort this out in Derry, why is it a problem in RoI? How many people on the island of Ireland refer to Derry as Londonderry, I wonder? Time to grow up?

People have little to worry about if this annoys them.

Slow news day?

Londonderry , Derry who cares in this day and age we should be over all this!

Another reason we gotta get Fine Gael voted out of office ASAP…

They’ve lost their mandate.

How anyone could be sad enough to think this is a big deal is beyond me.

Alan Shatter has nothing to apologise for. As others have said, we live in country where people died so that Irish men and women could speak freely in a parliament of their own.

http://www.geographia.com/northern-ireland/ukider01.htm

Have we not moved on? He can call it what he wants. I’m sure at some point Shatter has referred to the place as Derry too.

I can’t believe that this has actually stirred up controversy! It’s only a name for crying out loud. Kop on!!!!

What happened to your previous post Lorna? You said “There is a reason Michael C is defending Alan Shatter. Michael is also from the Jewish background. Michael C talks about minorities and ethnicities in this defensive fashion because like Shatter, they know that when the dominant culture is diluted, they feel less threatened and are more powerful, as they tend to keep their group coherency.”

Wow, reading through some of the comments someone needs to invent a device that allows us to ‘slap you upside your head’ across the internet.

I wouldnt be overly happy he called it Londonderry, but it really isnt that big a deal.. He did go on to say why he called it londonderry.. Im willing to assume he has been dealing with people in the UK in relation to this exact issue (terrorism, not name of city) and for the last two weeks he’s been hearing it called Londonderry and perhaps even calling it Londonderry on occaision himself, and today in the Dail was a slip of tongue. Lets flip this, Say Shatter apologised for what people are calling his mistake(faux pas/emarrasment/…).. then he would be taking a stance on it, it would no longer be a slip and where he makes up for it with some it becomes an issue with other people, and on an abstract scale other countries.

Good grief! Who cares? We still need some growing up as a nation if we still have hang ups about what name to use.

thats its official and legal title folks. doesnt matter wgat happened hundreds of years ago. its what its called now.
do we start calling istanbul constantinople?

Thanks for clarifying that Fagan. In that case, can Alan Shatter, an Irish Jew, be a west-Brit?

*for….. not from

londonderry Abu!

ALAN PRATTER …. THAT IS ALL

bit shocked at the vote stats above, seems like some people haven’t moved on.

An old taboo is SHATTERED :)

@jonathanfbell: Remembering 30 yrs on our 255 British soldiers who paid the supreme sacrifice retaking Sovereign British Territory of the Falkland Islands. These are the kind of people who want to call it Londonderry. DUP Bigots.

By the way Fagan. You’re probably aware there’s many a militant nationalist twit believes English are west-Brits. I know what they mean. But best not to take it personally. ..

The words “mountain” and “molehill” spring to mind while reading this. That’s all I’ve to say anyway.

I wonder what Gerry Adams has to say about all this. Or is that Londongerry Adams?

oh noes,the shinners are angry?

Doire Cholmcille. Oops … do jews believe in saints?

I can’t believe the number of people that say this is a big deal. It’s things like that, that will keep the stupid hatred between the Brits and the Irish alive when the best thing to do is move on and try to progress past those issues and onto something in the bigger picture.

Mr Shatter is a lawyer. Londonderry is the correct legal term. It is only Catholics who chose to drop the London from it

London / Derry, does it really matter? I mean both places refer to the same city in the British Isles.

Free State or Republic of Ireland. . .

Ooh. fascinating…

Michael C
It is up above this persons comment in reply to Susie Chesters comment.

I know ye like to keep a nice constant stream of news so as to keep the site active but this is a new low tbh.

I like it, ‘Londonderry’ sounds quite sophisticated.

We don’t want a united Ireland with northern Ireland, we had enough troubles 30 years ago, and the northerner don’t want to be part of united Ireland as they made that clear in a vote on 12 th June 2012 two days ago, so we don’t need a united Ireland as this will run our economy criss down much more , anyway they want to be part of UK as they made that clear that they want to remain as British citizens and I think that is best all round, we don’t need to pick up old wounds now mr shatter, do we, leave things as they are, they don’t want to be part of our world so leave them be,

The name Londonderry reflects both traditions and should be used for that reason. The insistence by some on the nationalist side on ‘Derry’ is disrespectful to the other tradition. However if ‘Derry’ is used as a casual abbreviation, ‘interchangeably’ as Alan Shatter uses it, that seems acceptable as there is no intention to deny the validity of the Protestant/Unionist tradition.

OH Alan I am Shattered !!

Folks Alan shatter Sid not make this error , it was most likely some one in civil service who wrote the tweet

I’m going to call it las Malvinas from now on

This is the purpose for catholic religion to be changed as atheism or pagans, to satisfy the union jacks in northern Ireland so that they can complete their faith and religion in united Ireland among the atheist or pagans, that is why they are trying to get rid of the Catholics as a religion in Dublin, not to benefit us but to benefit northern union jacks in uda and have their orange parade in Dublin, what a joke this government is!