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Dublin: 13 °C Saturday 25 May, 2013

Are Labour ministers split over mortgage debt relief for homeowners?

The party denies it but that appears to be at odds with the differing lines ministers gave on the much talked about issue yesterday.

Eamon Gilmore and Joan Burton (File photo)
Eamon Gilmore and Joan Burton (File photo)
Image: Julien Behal/PA Wire/Press Association Images

THE LABOUR PARTY has denied that is split over the issue of mortgage debt relief for homeowners struggling to pay their loans despite differing views expressed by ministers in interviews yesterday.

Yesterday the Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore said that the government was not considering ”some kind of a blanket writing-off of mortgage debt” which appeared to be at odds with what the Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton said yesterday morning in a radio interview.

The idea of debt forgiveness has been much discussed by ministers and economic commentators in the past week following a call from the UCD economist Morgan Kelly for the government to back a write off scheme to the tune of around €5 billion to €6 billion.

Yesterday, Burton told Newstalk’s Breakfast programme that there needed to be a form of debt forgiveness that would be fair to both the debtor and the lender and pointed to the example of Iceland were the amount repaid is linked to the current value of the property.

Her comments appeared to echo those of housing minister Willie Penrose who said at the weekend that the idea should be discussed by the government.

A government-commissioned review headed by KPMG accountant Declan Keane is  already examining measures to help distressed mortgage holders as was promised in the programme for government but it does not appear likely to recommend a blanket writing-off of mortgage debt.

And Gilmore told RTÉ News yesterday: ”What we are developing are proposals that will be fair to those who are in difficulty paying their mortgage, fair to those who are paying their mortgages and, of course, fairest to the taxpayer who is going to have to fund it.”

The Irish Times reports that a Labour party spokesman denied there was a split saying the Tánaiste was referring to a blanket forgiveness while ministers were referring to individual cases.

Gilmore’s position appears more in line with that of the rest of the government with Department of Finance minister Brian Hayes, a Fine Gael TD, saying earlier this week that introducing debt forgiveness totalling €6 billion “would be very difficult to justify”.

According to the group New Beginnings, which works with heavily indebted homeowners in Ireland, there are more than 50,000 mortgages in arrears of three months or more.

The economist Stephen Kinsella, who has previously joined calls for mortgage relief for homeowners, told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland there were some homeowners in Ireland who will never be able to repay their mortgages in their current state.

Read: Morgan Kelly calls for debt forgiveness for struggling mortgage holders>

Read: Government seeks to play down possibility of mortgage relief scheme>

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Comments (29 Comments)

  • I don’t want to be a charity case. I want the banks to stop fucking me and everyone else. Even though the banks are largely to blame for the mess we’re in and the resulting pay cuts, pension levy, job losses etc….. and even though they keep getting billions upon billions of euro they continue to squeeze the people for every penny they have! EBS increase rates FiVE times since last May, in the immortal words of cartman, ‘WTF’

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  • Tracey.Im sorry,but it was people like you that drove up house prices thinking you could make a quick buck.Its gone pear shaped for you and you have to live with that.Lifes a bitch.

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  • Yeah seriously, who are they kidding? People are already stretched to their limits, austerity measures this, tax increases that, job losses, pay cuts, hours cut, social welfare cuts. So they increase mortgage interest rates, and keep doing so? If every few months I asked my employer to increase my wages because I wasnt making enough and everyone else did that to, what would happen? My employer would run out of money. The banks and government think we are made of money, well we are not, and the well is going to dry up soon.

    Instead of a debt forgiveness, why not just wipe of the interest of the mortgages instead. Then the banks would get their money back that they loaned out, but they don’t make a profit from it. Then you will see a lot of people being able to repay their mortgages again, their monthly mortgage payment won’t be so high so they would have more cash to spend and get the economy moving.

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  • people with multiple homes shouldn’t expect any help at all !!

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  • Wait until a few months after Christmas and then see how many mortgages there will be in arrears of 3 months or more.. My guess is well in excess of 100,000. Something has to be done now!!

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    • Why does anything have to be done? All of us who took out mortgages understood the risks and have to deal with it. If there is any move to provide help on mortgages then it will have to be for every single mortgage out there which will never happen. Why punish those who didn’t take on serious debt or those that are not live beyond their means?

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  • Dont hold your breath for debt forgiveness.The goverment is more interested in bailing out the banks then helping its own people who are trying to keep a roof over there heads.So much for our new goverment.Its the same old crap just like we got from FF.

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    • The Labour Party like all the establishment parties is completely enthralled by the interests of professional and financial elites in the country. NAMA loses 1.1 billion on it’s portfolio in a year. No shouts from government. Billions in fees are earmarked for its advisors over its lifetime. Yet a few billion for mortgage debt relief, which is already factored into bank recapitalization, is unimaginable for the tens of thousands in distress.

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  • START LICKIN THOSE “JINGLE ENVELOPES” coming soon…”THROW YOUR KEY BACK DAY”

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  • A blanket reduction of people’s mortgages sounds mad to me. Some debts should be written off but it will have to be on a case by case basis. As a start the government should have a scheme to repay part of the excessive stamp duty they collected during 2005 and 2009. This repayment should be paid to bring down the capital element of the mortgage.

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  • ..ahhh good aul Seannie.. Not ever day you plonk a few Billion on a gammy horse in a two horse race!!!

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  • The ministers in the past have taken our money and used it to give themselves big payoffs. If somebody stole 100 Euro from me I would be around to his house straight away yet nobody is calling to Willie O Dea’s house or any of the other people who greedily took the money recently. We should protest outside their houses and disrupt their life and their family’s life fir a while. They just walk away and screw the country and it’s people.

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  • Mislead by the banks ??? so was Sean Quinn, so will we write off his debt.too ?

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  • The earlier poster who thinks that she will have her debt ‘forgiven by the government’ so she can buy a few more apartments….Cheers for brightening up my morning. Sides are killin me laughin. Priceless.

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  • debt forgiveness = bankruptcy.
    I have no doubt that Inda and team are planning to relax / create favourable bankruptcy laws to cover the private home owner in serious debt. However people like Tracey need to understand that this will come at a price. If you get a moratorium on your debts today your credit rating will go through the floor. If you become bankrupt well thats a whole different ballgame.

    On a second part of this if somebody is provided with debt forgiveness what ever shape it will come in – what is going to happen to the value of that house that they bought and can no longer afford. I could only guess that the people may continue to live in it while the bank play landlord (cause they won’t be able to sell it) or if they do it will be at rock bottom prices and what is that going to do for the already shattered house prices in that area.

    Debt forgiveness will be a good thing for those who simply cannot do anything else but its not going to be pretty when it happens.

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  • This is stupid. I bought an apartment in Dublin in 2006, but now the money I get from the rent doesn’t even come near to the cost of the mortgage, this can’t continue. I should be able to sell it, but can’t because of negative equity. This is all the banks fault. We all bailed them out, why should I suffer for their mistakes.

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    • I am afraid you made an investment decision that turned out to be a poor one. I feel sorry for you but you are in a completely different boat to those who took out a loan to house themselves and their families. If you had made a profit on your investment would you have shared that? Why expect society to share in your loss?

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    • Well, I should still be entitled to have the debt forgiven, at least all the negative equity part. I was misled by the banks the same way as those people with families. I shouldn’t be discriminated just because I don’t have a family and don’t live in my apartment. Every house purchase is an investment.

      I am currently working long hours to pay my own rent and the excess mortgage payments on the apartment. If I could move abroad I could start to earn closer to the amount I deserve with my college qualifications. The employers in this country have used the recession as an excuse to pay graduates less than they deserve. I’d nearly be better off working in a bar.

      At least if the debt was forgiven I could look at moving to the UK or Australia to find a job that pays me what I deserve instead of being stuck in this crappy country. I can’t risk moving abroad with the mortgage hanging over me as I am worried what might happen if I don’t find a job immediately. Of course it should be forgiven, why am I any different to someone with a family, that’s discrimination, I deserve the same treatment as everyone else.

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    • damian 25/08/11 #

      Sorry Tracey, i don’t fancy paying for your bad “investment”…. It was YOUR MISTAKE!

      A house is a place to live, not an investment. Misled by the banks? Pull the other one… Where does personal responsibility come into it? They didn’t put a gun to your head to take a mortgage that you couldn’t afford for an over-priced apartment!

      I feel sorry for you that you made this bad choice, but i bet you won’t be rushing into another mortgage without thinking again?

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    • What do you mean? Every house is an investment, whether its to live in or to rent. Someone has to live in it anyways.

      And for your information, once I have the my debt forgiven by the government, of course I’d get another mortgage if I wanted one. I’ve been managing to pay this one all along, even though its been tough, so once the negative equity is no longer a problem and my mortgage is reduced so much, I’ll have a lot more money to spend and thats good for the economy.

      Anyway, once that happens I’ll hope to buy a few more properties in Dublin City – which won’t be so overvalued then – right now they are very very cheap, and you’d be mad not to purchase one, if you have money. But because people are still burdened by overvalued properties, and mortgages that the banks tricked them into taking, they don’t have money at the moment to invest. Once they have their mortgages forgiven, they’ll be in a very strong position to invest in the cheap property around, and it won’t be long before property prices start rocketing up again, and that will be good for the economy.

      I wouldn’t wait too long if I were you, because as soon as the debt forgiveness happens, which it has to, because people are really struggling, then there will be a lot of people looking for a good investment and getting Dublin City Center apartments at a reduction of 70% of what they were worth at the peak!!! Thats a once in a lifetime opportunity, and trust me, it’ll be you who’s sorry for yourself then if you miss out, because those prices won’t last. I’ll hopefully be able to make some part of the money I paid for my apartment back once things pick up again after this Mortgage debt madness is finally sorted out, and the Government and Banks finally take responsibility for their reckless behaviour.

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    • Wow.
      So you want to get your current negative equity written off by the government/banks so you can “hopefully be able to make some part of the money I paid for my apartment back” and “I’ll hope to buy a few more properties in Dublin City” in order to make money for yourself? This is the reason people are worried about socialising the losses incurred by people that made poor investment decisions. It means that they will never learn their lesson from mistakes they have made in the past and they will continue to make them. The property bubble has ruined this country financially and debt write offs for property speculators will only encourage another one.
      And, by th eway, every house should not be an investment. Unless you are an investor, it should be a home. If you are an investor you should be prepared to take the losses along with the profits.
      You want “the Government and Banks to finally take responsibility for their reckless behaviour.” but when are you going to accept yours?

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    • damian 25/08/11 #

      Sweet mother of Jesus….. Some people will never learn…. Wreckless!

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    • Watch out ‘Tracey’ is trolling.

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    • Still, 6 thumbs up!

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    • Thanks Tom, perhaps my posts might be considered Trolling, I certainly hope not though, because I don’t feel I posted anything intended to be inflammatory or insulting. On the contrary I believe I have effectively put forward genuine, understandable arguments to support my point of view, and demonstrated as best I can, what in my opinion, would be the impact of a blanket debt forgiveness scenario.

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    • It’s not really the banks fault, no o e forced you to take out the mortgage, you understood the risks, rights? I don’t like how the banks got bailed out, haven’t changed and are screwing people more. The whole banking system needs to change but as we can all see nothing really has changed. :-(

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    • As Victor Meldrew would say “I DON’T BELIEVE IT” ………………….GUBU!

      Reply

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