In private Brian?
And rely on the likes of you to protect the interests of our people?

Look at the silly smirk on juniors face

I would have thought its a mixture of both public and private. Good cop and bad cop. Could be worth giving Gerry Adams a call on this….

He’s leaving a watery one off :D

Hayes the clown, must be thrown down. The promissory note should never be paid. FG deluded fantasies pretend this would result in Paypal leaving Ireland! FG are the new dictators.

I’m not quite sure who they would prefer, but F Gael Press Office would want to choose more wisely when they put one of their ‘mugs’ in front of the cameras. Anyone but this twit! I don’t like been called ‘special’ by teachers! There’s enough of that name calling when one is at school, we don’t need it as an adult, thank you very much!

What was the question ?

really? would love to see that.

I’m afraid we are not seeking a complete break from sovereign debt. Kenny has already stated that he and his government plan to pay back ALL the debt. So that tells you Irelands starting point in these talks is…….

@ Damien A – that’s the big question. Is the Irish government looking for debt reduction, complete are partial? We don’t actually know the specifics of what they’re looking for. What they’re looking for us not what they might get, but at least they could tell us what their target is.

Declan we did not play as a nation and lost…. private bondholders gambled..(manly German banks) and lost… this debt has nothing to do with the People of this nation

From Hayes rethoric, it seems partial…not good enough…The letters from Trichot to the government on the night we signed the guarantee id say would make interesting reading

well if they have admitted that “the Bailout” was forced upon us… they now expect us to pay back something that we didnt want in the first place….The letters from Trichot to the government should be made Public….Noonan has if im right admitted that he has them…then let us see them… is it that they confirm what we all believe ..that this is all a farce

Why should we the Irish taxpayers be held liable for foreign gamblers mainly German? Answer- because Merchel said so! She forced the FF led Government to bail out foreign speculators at the expense of the Irish taxpayers. FF should hang their heads in shame!

Excellent point Oliver….and ones I am hoping Enda is using to his advantage in discussions

Exactly Oliver.
And all 3 that you mentioned, were most likely designed by foreign beneficiaries and obediently cut and pasted by our ”fine leaders and protectors”.

Absolutely Damien & Harry – these trojan horse tools for wealth extraction were inserted into the department and central bank using ignorant and unquestioning politicians and civil servants who could not see them for what they were. Peter Sutherland (Goldman Sachs) and Alan Aherne (US Fed)…what was their involvement in these policies?

Yeah..even a mother would have difficulty liking that mug.

People believe a lot of strange things, some true, some not. Not giving out clear information keeps the rumour-mills and conspiracy theories going. Not giving clear information breeds dissent. Saying nothing won’t make the Irish people feel confident in the Government, it’ll do the opposite. If the government wants to rebuild bridges between us and them, this is not the way to go about. More transparency, and give the people enough respect and information to allow them to have an INFORMED opinion, rather then the polarised, emotionally-driven borderline fanatical opinions we have dominating now.

Hey, its our private debt; we’ll negotiate your payment of in our privacy.

Whats not to like?

Besides, its our democracy. We won.

Nikolas, if you want an ‘INFORMED opinion’…do not rely on government INFORMation spindustrialists.

Away with your trolling, please, Damien. You’re not actually disagreeing with me, you’re just trying to get up my nose again.

No, Nikolas, I’m not that perverted.

I’m trying the get you to shed your gullible trust in bad actors.

If I have a choice between two bad cars and I need a car, I’ll end up with a bad car. I’d rather a decent car, but there’s none available. Not having a car is equally not an option. We don’t have good leaders, they haven’t been great at the table so far. But no leaders and no-one at the table wouldn’t be an improvement. It wouldn’t even be as good now. Saying that they’re all useless and is all doomed to failure is defeatist and is guaranteed to achieve nothing at all. What’s the pleasure in saying “I told you so” when everything lies in ruins?

To extend your metaphor. The car is in the ditch. It can be salvaged.

But not if the new chauffeur insists on navigating by the same misprogrammed satnav.

To say everything is in ruins is the defeatism.

You’re agreeing with me, so.

I dunno guys, Belgium did all right without a car.

Partially, Nikolas.

I try to practise democratic exchange, not polemical ego-tripping.

That necessitates the recognition of validity when it is warrented. And the rebuttal of unsound argument or analysis where perceived.

Does that seem valid?

@ Nikolas & Damien.

This Debate appears to have descended to Mickey size status

So, a qualified “yes” wrapped up in some unnecessarily fancy language. Then we’re gradually getting somewhere then. Staying on topic does work better. Stick with it.

@ Josh. They do tend to. It’s a pity.

Where is the big word in my original comment you don’t recognise?

Troll. That short enough for you?

Noisemonger you’d never understand.

Oh dear. Not open to on topic discussion then.

You are not the topic, Nikolas.
Troll off and preen you insecure ego elsewhere.

@Nikolas you remind me so much of ruth dudley edwars im am almost 100% certain you are her, if it isnt some codswallop she made up herself then everything she disagrees with, no matter what proof or evidence is put before her, can only be idle speculation, you just make the same point on every topic, that you dont believe what you are reading because you have no proof, its getting a bit boring at this stage

No, I’m just me. You’re both acting like schoolyard bullies, but that your right. I suppose.

how am i acting like a bully? i simply pointed out that you are always repeating yourself and you share a similar trait to a dismissive right-wing columnist from the independent, just by calling me a bully doesnt make me one, if anything its your tactic of questioning the credibility of everyone that is derogatory, its one step away from calling them all liars

Don’t answer him, RP.

He’s paid to distract from the issue. Clever and shrewd, if dim and ignorant.

@Nikolas can you be 100% certain that its not just idle speculation that you are Nikolas?

nikolas there is nothing fanatical or borderline about corruption ,a blanket guarantee for 450 billion and not a screed of evidence to show what went on that night oh we might ask the bankers and they might tell the truth as for asking the FF leader at the time well your guess is as good as mine

Now….. Kiss..

Another clown. I wouldn’t believe a word out of that mans mouth. As far as I can see, the bank debt deal was done back in June. Enda told us it would be all sorted by October. And now we’re expected to sit back and let negotiations take place in private. I have no confidence in any members of this Government. Their trying to buy time now. This was supposed to be a sweetener, in order to make the budget seem less painful!

Telling us what we are aiming to get and what we realistically expect to be on the table is the exact opposite of negotiating in private.

@ Bob – not exactly. The argument for keeping negotiations private is that it’s as unhelpful as “backseat driving” if they have to make an announcement every half-hour about the current state of play. It’s unhelpful because it slows the process down to a crawl. A single daily or weekly announcement avoids that whole keeping the public in the loop. I’m just saying that 100% or 100% closed options are both unacceptable, but there doesn’t have to be only those two choices.

Nikolas for it to work what you are saying you have to live in a democracy we the ordinary people live on our knees democracy is only an illusion in this country let alone justice

Nikolas, the argument for keeping negotiations private is to not reveal your bottom line to the other side. They are called negotiations for a reason.

It’s obvious that what we want is some sort of deal. It’s also obvious that there are two strands to this, the recapitalizations monies (which we will be very lucky to get a good deal on) and the promissory note (which we should get a good deal as it will not cost anyone anything except some principles). We do get information when there is some (e.g. proposed solutions for the promissory note).

Dermot – I don’t know about you but I remember a free and fair election. I guess you are going to reply with something about bond holders not being burnt (was never promised).

A pseudo intelligent argument if I ever saw one. Not all aspects of a negotiation need or should be conducted in private. The fact that they want to keep it all private is suspicious, and suggests they have no plan.

I’m afraid it would be a waste of money trying to train up these ex schoolteacher types Declan.
It’s just not in them.
and it never will be, unless you are talking about negotiating Tea breaks or days off.
They lack the vision, motivation, intention, will, spirit, accountability, loyalty, honesty, capability, integrity, bravery etc etc etc

How about using targets and Deputising proven negotiators from our private sector for the purpose,
preferably people who are used to negotiating in the Billions.
I’m sure many of them see obvious negotiation points and solutions for this mess.

It couldn’t be any worse an idea than the government hiring Rothchild (a bondholder) to advise the government on whether or not it should pay the bondholders.

Well, Harry
When you find an article in today’s Journo about one Richy Bruton being a shareholder in CRH( major contractor for Israel’s apartheid wall)you don’t have to go all the way to Rot central for vested interests. For some reason the comment channel was closed early. Lets see how long this lasts(if).

Ethical gnats.

Send in Peter Mathews, Shane Ross and Stephen Donnelly…also I’d like Steve Keen (Australian economist) on team Ireland – maybe his grandmother was from Mayo?

You don’t deal with white-collar criminals. It only encourages them.

You do what Iceland did.

This comment has been brought to you by the Icelandic Department of Tourism and Investment. We’re so much better than other countries that start with “I”.

That comment was brought to you by an asinine troll with zilch(hence his label)to contribute.

But their strategy and tactics are as plain as the print on your screen.

Beg from Angie baby, borrow from the speculating wuncha bankers built the sub-prime split-derivative bundled-slurry scam in the first place and ….

..where was I?..oh yeah. Beg , Borrow and Steal from the sick, old, disabled, excluded, disemployed motgage-hung, rack-rented working producers of the national wealth to repay the casino bandits in Wall St/Frankfurt/City of London and the golf club of your exclusive choice.

“where was I?”

That’s a very good question.

Not really. The big secret is clearly that there is no negotiation. They’ve had long enough.

and the banana rotten

I wouldn’t mind if some of those teachers were historically literate, beyond a Collins-worshipping simpleton’s understanding.

We need people who understand ’29 and the Depression and cyclical war destructive/creative nature of the global economic system and its 21st century anachronistic redundancy.

They can be found, but they are excluded.

This crew are more like primary pupils with the conviction of professors. A dangerous combination. Bertie, with his fivepenny accounting cert was another. We won’t mention the Charlies.

But we already know what the government’s position is Arbitrasure. Kenny has already stated he plans to pay all the debt back. That would be €64 billion plus interest. I’m pretty sure that didn’t appear in FG’s manifesto pre election.

It’s like a combination of kids in the back of the car asking ‘are we there yet’ every 5 minutes….

Maybe we are worried because Homer Simpson is driving the car with all our children in the back

We don’t need the nitty-gritty. We do deserve clear statements of the targets and explanation of why those targets are being opposed.

Why do FG trolling whingers smear every attempt at democratic transparency and public accountability as ‘moaners’?

In opposition it used to be policy.

lol, you’ll still be paying in 20 years!

The problem is that there is no negotiation going on, we are being patted on the back, told we are special and we will see if you can do something to help you some time, now bugger off and stop annoying us we are busy running Europe.