There wasn’t a peep around City Hall when I walked by. Just a few left at the back with some police.

Safe home horse.

Well they never took the cross of Patrick out of the union jack after the government of Ireland bill and the treaty…

Scotland won’t vote for independence, there’ll be a few separatists alright but overall the vast majority will vote union. The Act of Union is very safe indeed.

Could they not just have 3 flags flying at equal height?The Tri-color,the Union Jack and the Northern Irish flag…keep everyone happy…respecting all the people??

They’d probably argue about which one should be in the middle then

@ The Avarus Animus, there is no such thing as the “Northern Irish Flag” and there hasn’t been since 1972. It doesn’t exist. Taking down the Union Flag (as opposed to raising a Tricolour) is the best way to respect all the people. Unfortunately, as this article demonstrates, it doesn’t keep everyone happy. A shame.

@ The Avarus. That’s a sensible suggestion. To add to your idea, may I suggest that the appropriate height would be half- mast, for all flags.

Agree with you there, sounded and behaved in a thoroughly bitter manner, not a nice person!

I do not mind her having an opinion . But She spoke as if she was LAW….Very arrogant and bitter.

Your’e right there Eileen. She was clearly playing to the gallery, a hate filled one at that. Her choice of attire was also interesting. The shocking pink fuchsia colours that she wore, screamed for attention visually, as much as her diatribe did verbally. In the words of Woody Guthrie, some people love to hate, and hate to love.

Dhakinas Sword
Yes her choice of clothes was very notable and did scream for attention. I was going to say it earlier but I felt I might be laughed at … :)

Ireland divided will never be at peace.

Sean, are you so naive or just plain stupid to believe that there will be peace in a united Ireland with a million unhappy Unionists.

There has been a political settlement…and this has resulted in a seismic reduction in deaths … That achievement is not to be overlooked. However there is a deep seated sectarianism (based on tribal fears and distorted understanding of history) and this is going to take a generation or more to counter… This protest is a playing out of such sectarianism but note by 10pm it was over … In the past this protest would have escalated and the politicians of each tribe would have been justifying the unjustifiable… That this protest was no more than that is proof if proof were needed The Troubles as we knew them are indeed over.

Why would the tri colour be flying in the UK?

This is going to be unpopular but as far as I’m concerned Britain currently own NI and therefore I think they should be able to fly their flag when they want. We could afford to take NI on anyway. We have severe financial issues within the republic. I appreciate the romantic feel about a united Ireland but our history is our history and I don’t think taking NI will benefit our future.

Well then you’re a traitor Derek, aren’t you?

According to the majority vote on the council, ‘they’ don’t seem to want it.

Yes Vincent, he’s a traitor. Powerful words Vincent. Powerful, and meaningless

#oh boy- while your words are oxymoronic. Or just moronic.

Derek fly a provocative flag to remind Nationalists of years of Unionist oppression, not a very sensible approach

Derek is incorrect, it is a union. Britain in no way claims ownership of Northern Ireland and it is recognised a separate country which can abdicate the union at any time (see Scotland). On the issue of the flag, it is an integral part of the current status quo of that country and the flag would not exist without a recognition of the Irish component.

The compromise would be to have only a St.Patrick’s saltire flying, which would be akin to what Scotland uses. That way, it should not be associated with unionism (who want only the union flag) and the nationalists who want the Irish flag. Both of these flags should pacify the aspiration of everyone, and those who would want an independent Northern Ireland (there are some).

But councillors removing the union flag comes across as petty, nasty and somewhat malicious – and indicates an abuse of power that the unionists they should be pacifying had abused in the past.

It’s a democratic decision. Doesn’t necessarily mean its a good one though, and will probably cause more problems than anything else. childish behaviour from politicians on both sides.

Alien8 FIFA might recognise the North as a country but it is nothing more than a statelet, whilst there is an assembly which is welcome the reality is the statelet is unfortunately administered from Westminister. On the point of removing the flag been petty – the majority of councillors voted for it, I believe it is called democracy

As you said Derek they should be allowed to fly the flag if they want to.
It just so happens they voted not to fly the flag so they don’t want to.

oh boy, NI is effecivly it’s own country, like wales and scotland and oh britan, the flag is only UK in a military / naval force issue..

sorry, typo / thinko by britan I meant engerland…

Why would the tri-colour be flying in the UK you ask!!! Well, why do you see things in such narrow black & white terms??? Either that or you are trolling.

Nearly half the population in Northern Ireland see themselves as represented by that flag, or at least would feel more in common with that flag. UK or no UK.

@alien8 – I apologise for not describing it as a Union but without getting too passionate, I stand by my point. It doesn’t effect me either way but as you pointed out Scotland, they have a referendum on independence in the next two years but no vote has yet taken place on the flying of the Union Jack flag. NI aren’t even holding a referendum on independence, so I don’t see why it’s any more relevant.

Maybe on the same 15 days they will fly the Union flag in Dublin! Do you think if there was a united Ireland, they would restrict the flying of the tricolour in respect to the Unionist minority?

#William- we restrict the use of our national anthem in Rugby out of deference to the unionist population, so yes I’m pretty sure there would be all sorts of accommodation made for the sensitivities of the minority in a United Ireland.

Vincent, you don’t seem to have a grasp of the situation and being offensive is your only way to extract yourself from something you know nothing about.

#William- the circumvention of my point in your reply speaks volumes. Superficial rhetoric seems to be the height of your insight.

Comment of the week Nigel! I could not have said it better!

Make good with what you got I guess, if you want to see green old Ireland no problem, but you want to see the darker shade you won’t have far to walk. This island has always been in turmoil, its a wonder it good this far and didn’t slide off the Earth.

The tricolour is a bogus flag. Should be the harp on a woad background. The ancient emblem of Ireland, mentioned 800 years ago. The harp would be distinctive as a national flag, many counties have tricolours of a mish mash of colours. Time for change.

And most likely plastic bullets too….

Amen.

Unionists are also Irish. And British. Failure to recognise this duality creates division.

There are four colours on the butchers apron. Red, white, blue and brown!

Ah Steve, no flag is better, why should Nationalists work under a symbol of their oppression. No flag at all or a flag of consensus, whatever that may be. I agree with you though about some of the bigotted comments on here tonight, this coming from an unrepentant Republican!!

No Steve. The Nationalist population in Belfast are simply sending a firm message to their historical repressors that they shall no longer doth their cap and put up with being ridiculed and treated as second class citizens in their own city. The era of Unionist domination is over. The Empire collapsed centuries ago. It’s time to come to the table and agree a way forward which is acceptable to us all, devoid of triumphalism or the repression of one ideology over the other.

The madness of life I guess, 2 wrongs make no right. What are we to do with ourselves. Maybe we’ll all laugh and this one day, like we laugh at those before us who thought the world was flat

Steve do you really think a United Ireland is inevitable? I don’t.

Steve, I’m not sure where you get your ideas from, but firstly, a united ireland is not inevitable. There is now a substantial minority of Catholic voters who no longer want a united Ireland. Secondly, I agree, the Unionist record on the treatment of the Nationalist minority in NI is poor, as is the ROI record on the Protestant minority.

I really do believe that a United Ireland is inevitable. Just because the Republic gave up its territorial claim as part of the GFA doesn’t mean that the majority here in the South don’t want it still.

I’ve lived in Cork for 3 years now and I love it here. It’s known among my new community where I’m from and what I used to be and no one has gave me any bother.

In living here I’ve discovered things that Unionists need to be educated on. SF are no more popular among FG and FF as they are with themselves. Also needs to be made clear that Ireland isn’t controlled by the Catholic Church, which I know is a huge fear among older Unionists.

If Unionists were smart they’d start embracing a UI. If they leave it too long their is a very real chance they’ll be dragged into it kicking and screaming with a SF majority in the Dail who will make their lives very difficult.

Dublin is a British city designed by fine English architects, Custom House, Merrion Square, Trinity College and many others. Its history, stuff happened, lets get on.

Ireland divided will never be at peace

Northern Ireland is simultaneously Irish AND British …

Did they built it for the Irish at the time under British rule ? don’t think so if you were catholic it was a no go in a country that is ours priest had to risk there life’s given mass in bushes so as far as I’m concerned the IRA are Hero’s and broke the Empire and we inspired the rest of the world if the Paddy’s can do it why can’t we :)

Hi Gerard. You’ll find most large public buildings are Norman or British built. There seem to be a lot of spelling and grammatical errors in your post that I will attribute to your rush to retort to Daniel’s post. Your interpretation of the penal laws is overly simplified. By the IRA I take it you mean the old IRA who had merit, but did not ‘break the Empire’ as home rule had already been agreed to. The problem as always wasn’t ‘the British’ but the Irish fighting each other. The PIRA are terrorists, but as the Empire had preceded them by many decades I assume they’re not who you are referring to.

You mentioned that already. It’s simplistic meaningless nonsense. Reality is a lot muddier than that.

I’m sure we could get a bulk deal with ferry company for 1 way tickets.

it’s time the last 6 counties came home to Ireland.

Agreed @tom – Go on home!

Sorry Tom, the ferries are full of republicans like yourself going over to GB to look for a better future and earn the Queen’s shilling, while those of your brethren who have stayed are more than happy to collect the Queen’s dole money.

My wife is English she says as do a lot of English people that the north is draining 10 to 12 billion a year that could be put to better use and could the Republic please take it back.As a British passport holder she has nothing in common with them in fact they are an embarrassment to the Union.

Your wife sounds delightful Ghandi, where’d'ya meet her?

Probably in the dole queue.

The truth hurts, ay William.

Ghandi’s wife is about on the money.

It’d be nice if NI could be gifted back to the rest of Ireland because it would save on a massive security bill. But that security bill is also the reason it can’t be. If there wouldn’t be massive unrest and a huge bloodbath and the people there wanted to leave the UK then it could happen with a minimum of negotiation. But that’s not on the cards right now.

Or madness

I’m from Ireland and I dislike the tricolour. A horrible, bogus flag

The Jocks won’t leave the Union, they know what side their bread is buttered, On the other hand, I hope you’re right an independent Northern Irish State would solve a lot of problems….

Bit much Rob? You’ve never been guilty of flying your flag overseas? You sound to me like someone who goes to Lanzarote every year and hangs a tricolour from the balcony.

Let individual people fly whatever flags they want as long as it’s not to provoke others. All they’re doing is recognising their heritage same as you are.

well N.Ireland has It’s own flag why did they need to fly the union flag, they probably don’t know what there’s looks likes. under power sharing they should fly the relevant flags. The tri colour, E.U and the n.I flag.

@ Brian: Maybe some of them feel more British than Northern Irish?

Hypothetical question for you (presuming you’re Irish)… If you moved overseas to England, for example, with your family would you bring your kids up to be Irish or English? These people have British heritage, and aside from the controversial circumstances as to why they are now living in Ireland, they have as much to celebrate that as anyone else. Maybe they should ban St Patrick’s parades in Birmingham or elsewhere where murders took place in the name of Ireland?

Don’t get this whole aggressive patriotism thing. Where you’re from is a coincidence of your birth. Can’t understand how it can serve as motivation for hatred of others. Wasted energy.

David, plenty of poles here but we don’t fly the polish flag at the Dail.

most English people have no idea why they fly the union jack in NI and rather they didn’t.

Indeed..

The Irish where given Ireland and made a mess of it

Daniel. I think you’ll find that more often than not, countries who gained independence from colonial powers struggled with civil wars and governing themselves. The aftermath of oppression.

Caroline, I could retort “as long as these morons will keep on thinking the 6 Counties are not in the UK there will be trouble”. How can Britain “give back” the 6 counties to Irish rule? Previously Ireland was united…under British rule. And more importantly, Ireland was in union with the UK (like Scotland, England, Wales) with Irish MPs in the Commons. Give Ireland back to the Irish? Everyone (nationalist and loyalist) in NI are actually Irish, whatever label you put on them.
I think what you mean is let the 6 counties be governed by Dublin. But what happens to the majority of people ‘up there’ that don’t subscribe to your holistic point of view? Repatriate them to Scotland? Or how about the Isle of Man (it’s halfway between Ireland and Britain)?

Glen,

You’re a fair poster but the argument that Ireland was never united only under British rule is futile. England has been interfering in Ireland’s domestic affairs for 800 hundred years. How many ‘united countries’ were there in the world 800 years ago? Ireland never had the chance to be united because Britain wouldn’t get out and let us sort out our own island. “Us” being all who inhabit this island, not the neighbouring one.

The unionists are decent people beneath it all, but the colonial mentality of the Protestant ascendancy has poisoned their attitude to the rest of Ireland and like the Protestant ascendancy, they think whatever the Protestants want in Ireland they should get. It’s a long out of date mentality but loyalists in Belfast can’t accept the 21st century and real equality.

it’s much bigger than a single government that Ireland is restored to 32 counties

Scotland gets its name from the Scoti people. Ireland was originally called Scotia by the Romans, but when a large number of the Scoti people moved to what is now called Scotland, that area became known as Scotia and Ireland became known as Hibernia. So you could argue that they are “back where their ancestors came from”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotia

Other than that, your comment is horribly ignorant and intolerant.

@Patrick: As a republican, I have to say I find your attitude unpleasant in its sectarianism. We must accept the right of all traditions to live here.

quoting the Romans who never when to Ireland or Scotland is a little ridiculous
you be better quoting Celtic nations but still doesn’t excuse the bigots from Scotland in ireland

To anyone who aspires to a united Ireland we will need to accept unionist ideals of part of the mix. A united Ireland is one where catholics and protestants share the island. The idea that we can have a united ireland where the unionists “go home” or just quiet down and pretend to be “Irish” is deeply disturbing and exactly what unionists are afraid of. If we want the north to join the republic the first step is to make the unionists feel welcome and let them know that they will always be part of Ireland

Citing Wikipedia for your argument immediately disqualifies it.

Patrick: what a dumb comment, So you can’t be protestant and be Irish in your warped view? I think you’ll find that not all ‘protestants’ came from Scotland, not all ‘protestants’ are loyalists, unionists or orange men and it’s ignorant morons like you and the rest of the republican bigots and keyboard rebels who spout crap on here who make any chance of Ireland ever being united a far off pipe dream! People can bitch all they want on here about these loyalists and their contemptible behaviour tonight but just read down through many of the posts on here and you’ll see that there are just as many bigots and hate mongers south of the border as there north of it. Bottom line is that those unionists/loyalists don’t have a monopoly when it comes to intolerance and hatred!

OOoooo, not a popular one there Patrick

Buffoon.

Ed Appleby – spot on, good comment.

You’ve barely scratched the surface on how dark it really is. Is there nobody with civic pride anymore, a country is its people and the happiness of them not a bankers gross profits or a piece of cloth on top of a building. If this so called country is to survive, a massive shift in thinking needs to take place otherwise its goodnight from us. Be the change you want to see

Your idea of a “United Ireland” is quite disturbing.

Gerard, I can trace my roots in Ireland for over 400 hundred years, this is my home and heritage. People of your ilk are exactly what the problem is here, I have no connection with Scotland, my family were Old English, but I’m sure you don’t really know what I’m talking about. As part of the minority in the ROI, I’ve only seen discrimination in the South, and I can understand why the Unionists want no part of it.

Discrimination in the south William? Please expand. I’m curious as to how you’ve been discriminated against.

It’s amazing that 112 people have green thumbed Gerard’s disturbing comment.

It was the brutal English that gave us Irish people 800 years of sheer torture and brought in the scots The empire is dead and us Irish played a major roll thanks to the brave men of the IRA

Gerard, actually that’s not quite true. Ireland as a ‘nation’ didn’t exist, it was an island of warring fiefdoms. It was the Irish (Diarmait Mac Murchada) who requested help from the Normans (Henry II of England was born in France) setting the scene for centuries of Hiberno-Norman history. Ireland actually did quite well as the Normans brought the rule of law (enabling the land of ‘saints and scholars’ to flourish). These Normans (or English as you call them) intermarried and eventually became ‘more Irish than the Irish’. The counties were introduced by these ‘English’ in 1297.

@ Glen: except we did have rule of law in Ireland prior to the Normans. We had the Brehon laws which were actually more liberal and egalitarian than the rule of law brought in by the Normans. Secondly, the period of “Saints and Scholars” existed from c. 400 AD to c. 900 AD. The Age of Saints and Scholars ended with the arrival of the Vikings. The Normans didn’t arrive until 1167, with King Henry arriving in 1171.

Hi Brian. Yes, correct, sorry. The scholarly bit preceded the Normans. And I acknowledge the use of Brehon law (in fact they survived in part up to the 17th C) The Lordship of Ireland after the Norman invasion of 1169 (103 years after the Norman invasion of England) that existed up until 1542 saw integration of native Irish and Normans, but it all went a bit awry when the Tudors took the reigns.

Actually they are overwhelmingly descended from immigrants escaping dire poverty and famine at the end of the 17th century.The plantation was largely a failure.

Religion is not the issue.The issue is:British or Irish.

It’s a Father Ted reference Caroline.

Ah come on Steve,has anybody really been treated poorly here?

The motion was to remove the flag, not to replace it with another. Alliance brokered a compromise, and Unionist still get to fly their flag on certain days after a decision was arrived at democratically. What’s not to like about that. Or can the echoes of “Ulster says Noo” still be heard only in the ears of a few dinosaurs?

I found that privately, people get on.

Don’t attempt logic in a Northern Ireland thread on this website. You’re dealing with complete and utter simpletons.

we where a lot worse off when this state became a republic

Tom its bad here, soup kitchens?

Just for facts it wasn’t Henry Tudor (who was Henry VIII in the 16th century) but people acting on behalf of Henry II. Henry II never actually came to Ireland.

Incidentally the claim by English kings and queens over Ireland has its roots in a papal bull issued in 1155 which gave Henry II the right to assume control over Ireland. This document though has been the subject of much controversey about it authenticity.

Also forgot to say that Ireland actually wasn’t united under any one rule until after the Battle of Kinsale in 1601. Until the point it was still a collection of Gaelic, Norman and English fiefdoms. The first real ruler of the entire island technically would have been Elizabeth I or more realistically her sucessor James I (who was James VI of Scotland).

Rob, it’s the Union flag (not the Union jack) and there’s nothing wrong with the Australian flag.
Perhaps you might like to look at these old photos of the Union flag flying in Dublin?
http://www.andrewcusack.com/2008/12/22/dublin-in-the-rare-old-times/
http://www.andrewcusack.com/2009/02/01/victory-parade-dublin/

They’ve given up their country to

Ireland is a confused cripple

I think it was a brilliant move by The Alliance Party. Loyalists already hate them for being instrumental in the first SF mayor of Belfast way back in the day. I used to be a member of the party when I lived in Belfast any any time we canvased a loyalist area it was sure to be brought up more than a few times as a reason we wouldn’t even get a lower preference on their vote.

The Alliance isn’t targeting Loyalists for votes or support, they are aiming for the people who remain exasperated by the usual tribal politics. In that goal their compromise last night went a long way.

Jim don’t let facts get in the way of a bulls**t rant, SF & SDLP originally did not want the flag to fly at all, Alliance would not support this motion so they came to a compromise to fly it on designated days. 3 seperate parties successfully negotiating a positive outcome. The Unionist parties were going to vote no to any change in the status quo, the 2 Nationalists parties showed their flexibility.
I think you have a problem with simple sums Р51 seats on the council Sinn F̩in 16 SDLP 8 that is 24 Nationalist seats, 26 are needed for a majority

Ernie’s right, maybe there where neutrals who didn’t want the flag. Truth is hard to find

@Ernie – So you would support a motion to limit the number of days the tricolour could fly from a local council building.

The simple fact is that Northern Ireland is currently part of the United Kingdom and that position has been agreed to by a majority of people on this island. As long as it remains in the United Kingdom the idea that you can’t fly the flag of the country you are part of from a public building is ridiculous.

I don’t expect anything from SF in this matter but I am disappointed with both the SDLP and the Alliance parties for signing up to what is ultimately a sectarian proposal which as I said above gains nothing and just promotes a sense of resentment which ultimately proves a breeding ground for extremism.

What a ridiculous argument, Jim.

Belfast is a divided city with two tribes who have two national allegiances. Dublin therefore cannot logically be compared to Belfast unless Dublin had a Protestant unionist majority who didn’t want the tricolour flying all year round.

If you’re going to try to make an argument, at least make it comparable in the real world, not fantasy world stuff. The Nationalists in Belfast are entitled to not want a Union Jack flying all year round. They achieved it through a democratic vote. End. of. Story.

There isn’t one .The cross of St Patrick belongs to the whole island and the red hand is an ulster crest three counties of which are in the republic.

Ghandi, the cross of St Pat is the emblem of the Fitzgerald name, why its seen as an national flag of some sort is folly. You would of thought the St Patricks cross would be a Celtic cross, circle for the pagan sun and cross for Christ would be more appropriate. But no, just a red X. But hey thats good auld Ireland, a place where madness prevails and common sense is locked way in a dungeon.

Its the south thats the poisonous vile thing

Its a sham flag for a junk state

Do they still ask each others second names and find out what school they went to up there, to find out their background, because they’re all pasty faced redheads