If this is the case, can you provide evidence that the govt are sitting on such a report?

Even if it’s true, half a billion is a drop in the ocean when you consider there’s a €15 billion deficit in what we’re spending to run the state and what we’re taking in.

Naill Collins FF TD on newstalk radio yesterday stated this.Is it your contention since 500million is a drop in the ocean we should forget about?Could be wrong but i don’t see how 1.6 or 1.8 million households(depending on whose figures you believe) can make up this 15billion shortfall i know i can’t.

500m is a good start. I’ve heard this same argument trotted out in relation to other savings in public spending. Did you ever hear the adage “look after the pennies, and the pounds will look after themselves”?

The mind doesn’t really boggle. Every other half-decent first world country has a property tax of some sort. No representation without taxation.

I’ve heard of Belgians and French people (who’ve been paying property tax of some form for hundreds of years) whose minds were boggled when they heard news of the Irish revolting against the government for daring to introduce a property tax.

So you want to compare Ireland to Belgium and France eh? That does not compute.

@Martin Mac, do you still stand by things you said or beliefs you held in 1994?

Yes Martin 1994 for gods sake!!! Times change, or haven’t you heard?

The big change was that Enda got into power.

Otherwise, if it was *morally* wrong in 1994 then what changed to make it moral now?

Didn’t realise the concept of morality had changed in the last couple of decades. Or maybe endas just a typical lowlife politician.

That could well happen anyway regardless of the introduction of an annual property/council tax.

Absolutely.

SF would destroy the country, emigration would soar and we’d have a bunch of Irish people abroad then swearing they never voted for SF themselves.

But thankfully, SF will never be in Government here, ever.

Reg, Handing over 1.6 BILLION to the ESM fund this year to bailout Spain, and then another couple of Billion to support Italy in a couple of weeks is just a joke in itself. The Government had no problem find 1.4 billion euro 4 weeks ago to pay off more unsubordinated banking debt either. That is what the joke is.
Bono and Denis O’Brien will pay the same household charge for their mansions as Joe Bloggs living in an apartment worth 80k. How is that not crazy?

Might be fair if everyone paid owners,renters etc but we know that won’t happen.Look at the proposal to collect it through the PAYE system.Why should rural dwellers pay for services they will never recieve for example street lighting,footpaths etc.

Cal, our property system tax is in need of reform. High stamp duty rates were very unfair for average earners who needed to move house to change job or needed an extra bedroom for a growing family. The Household charge is for one year, hopefully what’s coming for next year will be much fairer for everyone.

lets go back to the historic taxing by paying a charge per window that your property has. small house – small charge, large house – big charge, glass house – ur f’d over completely.

Reg: “Hopefully what comes next year will be fairer”. Are you having a laugh or what? What alternate universe are you living in? You can be guaranteed with this government that next year you’ll be paying €100 for a bedsit. Wait and see what you’ll be paying for a 3 bed semi-d with €100,000 negative equity! Fairer? This government don’t do fairer!!

Reg, i honestly agree with you… But this Bill should be repealed until such times as the Government can work out how to do it fairly and equitably.
It should be done on the

1) Value of the home
2) What is owed from a Mortgage point of view versus income to the house (ie ability to pay).
3) People who payed any stamp duty over a certain threshold in the last x number of years

No-one should have to voluntarily register to slit their own throats. IE get an accurate database set-up before trying to do this. A bill can be sent to the household and a common sense approach be made to accommodate payment (eg weekly payments of x euro etc).

The government must rescind its current Bill, admit to the people they were wrong, and plan a start date, with all the conditions above met for 2015. This will give people the opportunity to make appropriate adjustments in the mean-time.

The money should not be going directly to local authorities, it should be pooled and ring-fenced. Otherwise the people in Donegal, Leitrim, Sligo etc, who are living in least densely populated areas will suffer even more deprivation versus their large urban centers like Dublin/Cork/Galway.

Martin, were you not watching ANY news? SF TDs announced that they stood solidly behind refusing to pay the Household charge, and they acknowledged that they could go to Jail for it. They did their best not to advocate not paying the charge, as this would have been breaking the law, but they really made it clear to anyone with a brain, that they would support the people who didn’t pay.
Lets hope Labour is embarassed into giving the SF Bill support, otherwise they can kiss their support base goodbye.

Where were SF during the Campaign Against the Household Tax? Repeat the question to you because I was there standing beside those people and I will be if and when anyone from my local group is brought to court. SF hold press conferences and make statements, they do not represent working people. They represent their own populist agenda.

http://westcorktimes.com/home/?p=6888

Here you go Martin

@Cal

SF were not part of the CAHWT no matter how you slice it or dice it. They said privately they were going to “wait and see”! Now, they’re making the maximum political capital possible. As Martin says, surprise surprise!

Firstly why does it matter u have a party here supporting your view and u write negatively about them I wonder is it because u support a different group or party ……… Otherwise your negative sentiment doesn’t make Sence ……

It makes sense if you question the principles of SF. I do. And yeh, I’m a member of People Before Profit. A group that is involved in the CAHT and whose members will stand side by side those who are taken to court. Not issuing empty promises from the Dail. People are naturally cynical about SF, a party who is government in NI and who are implementing cuts as we speak. Principles is what it’s all about, SF have none. That’s the higher ups I’m talking about btw. There are loads of working people in SF who are fighting hard for a better society, I have no problem with those people and would consider them good activists. It’s the hierarchy of the party that’s rotten.

@Darren,

Would you agree this SF bill is a piece of pointless parliamentary theatre? If not, what practical use will it serve beyond generating a bit of publicity of SF TDs?

How the left could be against a property tax is beyond me. The household charge was a joke, granted, a flat (and so unfair) tax poorly conceived and implemented by big Phil (He should resign). However a property tax fairly implemented is a tax on wealth, something any proper left party should be in favour of. Something our society needs more of, not less of.

It provides a stable stream of revenue for the state and incentivises local issues engagement and pressure to deliver local services, people will be paying for roads/lighting/pothole fixing directly, they will demand better from local councils.

The problem as I see it is the paying of bank debt and near lotto winning salaries/pensions/payoffs to those implementing the tax (politicians and senior civil servants). This has giving rise to a sense of injustice in society, the manifestations of which we see in the non compliance with the household charge. It’s the wrong issue to make a stand on though, we need a property tax if we are to start creating a more equal society.

Martin, Nokia…

I supported PBP and the independents lead on the CAHT. I support SFs move on the same. Why are you attacking me. Are you suggesting that SF were against the CAHT? PBP are more than a single issue party, as are SF. I agree, they should have combined resources right from teh start. They didn’t. But don’t let party politics prevent you guys from joining forces now against an unjust tax. That is all FFg/Labour would love to see, a divided front. Combine together, unite and embarrass Labour into changing their support for this unfair and unjust tax.

wont make any difference to those that cant or wont pay, like me for example

John the reason the left are against a property tax is largely down to the high amount of house ownership in Ireland. That and also the way that the Household Tax was introduced as a money making tax to fund a a bank bailout.

The cynisism of asking house owners to fund such is disgusting. Here we are, a nation struggling under negative equity and with our citizens worrying whether they can afford their next mortgage repayment – all due in no small part to the cheap money that was flooded into this country with cheap interest rates which in turn caused the rise in house prices. If that doesn’t rise the heckles on your back nothing will.

The household tax is an immoral tax. We must resist this tax. Its introduction as a register tax gave us an opportunity to take control and seize a bit of people power. If you have already paid it and regret your decision cancel your standing orders with your bank or if that’s not possible refuse to pay next year.

C’mon Ireland. We might be out of Euro 2012 but let’s show we still have our spirit. :-D

Why aren’t my comments showing up? Have I been barred? Goes off to cry…
:-(

Lads use hav no chance as a party if your drawing your ire at s/f on social issues …… Lol

OReilly i have family in the north.They pay £1060 a year for services that they recieve.What services are on offer to people in the south in return for a property tax.

The ones you take for granted Norman…

The ones we already pay for with income tax O’Reilly?

Censored, not any more. Or did use miss the fact that we have an 18bn hole? What part of the fact that we font have the money do people not get?

The part where fine gael steal our taxes to pay rich peoples gambling debts and then demand more taxes because of the resulting ‘hole’

Trueleft, absolute nonsense. We’d be borrowing anyway. Our taxes don’t cover the bills. That’s it. We need a sustainable source of revenue. Or a society with no ambition if Sinn Fein had their way…

I hope you are getting paid for this tripe!

Streets lit, roads repaired, libraries open? Do you live in Enda’s home town mcbab? Cause that is the only explanation I can think of to understand your happy circumstances. Back in the real world it’s a bit different.