The reality at the moment is that the bailouts are all on borrowed money, added on to state debt. For all the ECB therapy, the GDP/DEBT ratio’s of most EU countries continues to rise rapidly. Absolutely nothing has been solved to date and once the ESF, beloved of the Yes side, comes in to force and the bills go out to Ireland, Spain, Italy, France etc etc then their credit worthiness is going to take a massive dive.

Spain is asking for 100 bn bailout. It will have to give the ESF 80bn when it starts.

You cannot make this stuff up. If the most swivel eyed EuroSkeptic was planted in the EU or ECB on a mission to destroy the Euro, no matter the cost, then he could not have come up with a more brilliant plan that the one the ECB have adopted.

Remember Bruning and co. in the 30′s thought that they were right as well.

maybe if Slovakia gives us a hand we can be the Sicpigs …..

Think of the acronyms we’ll be able to come up with in a few years’ time – when almost every economy in Europe has been destroyed by this disaster, we’ll have most of the alphabet to play with. :(

The PIIGS will be called something like the 1st wave when the history of this is written. Cyprus and Slovakia and Hungary, will be in the 2nd wave. The 3rd wave will feature Belgium, France and Austria and the 4th will be an assault on the Queen Bee herself in Berlin.

German and French banks have the most leveraged debt in all of the Euro. Their banks are built on sand, time to face up to the fact that this crisis is a currency crisis, rather than a debt crisis.

Now that Germany is heading in to recession as well, then things can move on.

The France story was about 5 o’Clock, that is an eternity in the Euro crisis at this stage.

Cyprus has known for weeks it needed a bailout. They were just deciding between the EU and Russia. Cyprus now has a huge population of Russian billionaires and most online gambling sites are based there. They’ve obviously decided the EU is a better option.

A contender for the comment of the week!!

Another summit coming and nothing new will be decided…all horse sh*t as Europe spins down the toilet….

And that my friend is why Germany is the cause of and solution to this crisis. The Germans owe the rest of Europe for the expensive reunification and subsidisation of eastern Germany. Merkel and many Germans will not admit this nor want to bear responsibility.

Perhaps you’re right but I’m not sure. Reunification happened over a decade before the euro.

But, the euro was a German project for a German economy and overseen by the ECB, which acted solely for German interests and the rest of us have paid the price. If Germany is now overburdened with the cost of its own failed project then it has no one to blame but itself. It is now irrelevant whether Germany can saddle the debt, no country can.

The other 26 EU countries must now stand up to the German menace and make her see that her banks contributed to the crisis by lending cheap money to countries/businesses they knew were not capable of paying it back, and accept that eurobonds are the only answer.

False, Germany cannot bail out the entire eurozone, simply impossible! How would it work? They agree to some sort of debt mutualisation that they cannot feasibly fund so that countries at the periphery can start borrowing at Germany’s expence and other countries such as France will gladly take the opportunity to replicate the excessive government spending that got the Euro into trouble?

The truth is that the Euro project was not well- thought out, the founders put the cart before the horse all in the aim of achieving some spurios ideological dream. Now the whole edifice is collapsing and everyone is running around like headless chickens putting forward all sorts of policy interventions. One week it is fiscal union, after that banking union, now it is political union- I thought it was European Union??

Until politicians accept the fact that Europe can only be a formidable trading bloc and nothing else- the problem would persist ad infinitum.

It was never suggested that Germany could bail out the eurozone just that Merkel should stand up and take some responsibility for creating the crisis and agree to the accepted solution, eurobonds.

Far from agreeing debt mutualisation, Merkel is vehemently opposed to it which is prolonging the problem and the eventual solution.

No.

Excellent supporting answer Tom. Just make things up!

Since you asked nicely… :-)

Yes, it always bodes well when we agree with the opportunistic rantings of the crypto-racist and quasi-fascist.

Hmmm. Never really associated crypto or quasi anything to do with common sense, only left wing wannabees with no original ideas, hence the crypto and quasi prefixes.

@ Karswell attack the message not the messenger, can you please tell people given the esm will be no money left after bailing out cyprus, spain and italy, where the money is gonna come from just incase we need a second bailout?

No idea but I would suggest the IMF which everyone in Europe seems to have forgotten exists for this very purpose.

Not only does the ESM not have any money, it currently doesn’t exist as it is awaiting ratification by several countries before it comes into being.

It will come from one or both of the inevitable two sources; the issuing of Eurobonds or a EZ-wide devaluation of the currency. The only other option is to admit that the Eurodollar cannot be rescued, and the Euro-elites are not yet ready to take that path. nnUKIP are just another of the many groups that have opportunistically swarmed upon the economic crisis to expand their influence. Without such a crisis, they would remain in the margins to feed off their own bile and bigotry. I hope for stability in Europe, not least as it will deprive these jackals of their soapbox.

I agree Klaus although I’m not as cynical as you.

Please somebody explain to me how 3 people out of 13 (nearly 25%) can disagree with the idea of pumping us with money and giving ourselves a bit of breathing space with our debts…WHAT!

Perhaps some people remember the last time the Irish economy was pumped with money. I think it was called the Celtic Tiger and all it did was fuel greed, coruption and waste.

point taken Jim, we have to learn from the mistakes of the past. we cant sustain this austerity and debt repayment. one is eating away at the other. why not extend the debt over 100 years and spread it out its not as if ireland is going anywhere. the only way out is growth inside the country

That’s fair enough Finbar but why the complete boycott of punctuation?

I see.
But the criticism of all yes voters – how would a no vote have led to lower taxes or higher employment?

The fact of the matter is that the referendum should have been put on hold until the autumn, as should the ratification of the ESM. We are now going to have to fork out the 11 billion capital stock in a shorter time frame and no doubt the ESM will call in more capital from us. So much for voting Yes for stability!!

Shoulda, woulda, coulda,…. Try to stay in the present, please.

Yawn

People often yawn before they get sick Toorkeel. I’d feel sick too had I been advocating a Yes in EUref. Hope you’re feeling ok soon and get a bit of sense before the next EUref Enda was talking about last week.

We should all be aware of this new phenomenon……If you yawn or feel like your going to yawn then please admit yourself to A&E immediately, as this often occurs before you get sick. Be vigilant!

The majority spoke….move on Reada…..yawn

IT’S THE SHINNERS I tell ya!!! Yawn

Nobody voted at all to access ESM fund, it doesn’t exist yet. You didn’t read the literature before you voted, did you?

people often yawn before they get sick!?!? jesus i hope i make it thru the night so, yawn!

Cal: We are part of a team. We have to make our contribution too. That’s how solidarity works.

Can’t believe my yawn comment caused such a response. It’s a fact that when you’re feeling nauseous you’ll yawn a lot. I was just concerned that Toorkeel mightn’t get to a loo on time before he puked. Surprised it caused such a reaction. But ye learn something new everyday. Hope you got it up Toorkeel. :-P

I suspect you’re being sarcastic, are you? I don’t think you admire the people that voted yes at all.

I am curious about how a no vote would have led to lower taxes…….

Another one who didn’t read the literature or know what he was voting for or against.

Gagsy 99 can you point me in the direction of anyone on the yes or no side who said voting no would lower taxes? Also can you point me in the direction of any country that is making a success of the current policy of austerity. Don’t point in the direction of a country making it’s ‘numbers’ without taking in the social consequences.

No problem Kerry – I’m pointing up. The comment was in response to Finbar’s comment applauding the yes voters in anticipation of higher taxes.
And my suggested answer to your second question (though I didn’t mention austerity) would be Germany. They’ve been at it for decades.