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Dublin: 4 °C Saturday 25 May, 2013

X Case Dáil debate told: ‘Protecting lives of pregnant women the only civilised choice’

The Dáil debated a motion from calling on the government to legislate for the X Case. Deputy McDonald said it “is a very reasonable ask of a political system that has fudged, prevaricated and failed to act in 20 years”.

 Sinn Fein's Mary Lou McDonald
Sinn Fein's Mary Lou McDonald
Image: Laura Hutton/Photocall Ireland

MEMBERS OF THE DÁIL gave their opinions on whether the government should legislate for the Supreme Court ruling on the X Case this evening.

Sinn Féin put a motion forward in Private Members’ Business calling on the government to legislate for the X Case. Speaking to the Dáil this evening, Sinn Féin Deputy Leader Mary Lou McDonald said it is crucial that the full facts are established around Savita Halappanavar’s death and the inquiry must have the full confidence and consent of her husband and family.

Of the motion, she said:

Sinn Féin’s is a straight forward call for legislation to protect pregnant women where their lives are in danger; it is a call for legislation that gives certainty and protection to the doctors who care for them; it is a call on government to publish the long awaited report of the expert group to facilitate debate and the speedy passage of this legislation.
Our motion is a very reasonable ask of a political system that has fudged, prevaricated and failed to act in twenty years.

“Protecting the lives of pregnant women is not a difficult choice. It is the only civilised choice,” she added

Response

Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams backed up his party colleague’s thoughts. He was followed by Sinn Féin TD Dessie Ellis, who spoke about his support for the motion and his own past in taking part in pro-choice events.

He said the country has had “people who claim to be leaders buckling in cowardice” over the issue in times past, and that women like Savita are “a human being and not an incubator “.

Deputy Ellis said that the “extreme reactions of groups like Youth Defence” were off-putting and “very many good people remained silent”. He called on the Government not to “cop out”.

Sinn Féin Deputy Martin Ferris said he is totally opposed to abortion on demand, and that abortion would have to clearly be restricted to circumstances where a pregnant woman’s life is in danger of being lost. He said that it could be argued that under the current situation, there is scope for a much more liberal allowing for abortion.

Health Minister

Health Minister James Reilly said that women in Ireland are entitled to have legal clarity around abortion where a woman’s life is at risk. He said he received the report of the Expert Group on the A, B and C case on 13 November and intends to recommend its publication on Tuesday 27 November.

He added: “I’m sure all of you share my view that it is incumbent on us as representatives… to take action to deal with the long overdue responsibility to protect lives of women”.

Labour Minister of State for Disability, Equality and Mental Health Kathleen Lynch appealed to the movers of the motion “that calmer heads will now prevail” and said that though anger is understandable, something concrete is now being done about the situation. “I would appeal to you to let wiser heads prevail,” she said. “Let’s be calm about this now. Let’s do it properly.”

Labour Deputy Ciara Conway supported the motion, but pointed out that in Northern Ireland, Sinn Féin “has resisted any attempt to bring in any part of UK abortion law”. She said the Labour Party “had been the sole party and the only one that asked for legislation to end this inequality”.

Fine Gael TD Olivia Mitchell said of the claims of the Life Institute that abortion is never required to save the life of the mother, “we now know that is wrong, wrong, wrong”. She said the government cannot leave doctors in a position where they have no option but to treat human beings in a way a vet wouldn’t treat a dog.

Deputy Billy Kelleher questioned the timing of the motion, before the expert report had been released, and said he was very concerned that the investigation into Savita Halappanavar’s death was not fully independent.

He added that he had spoke to staff at Galway hospital who were very distraught and that some feel scapegoated.

Read: McDonald on X Case motion: “The time for playing cat and mouse is over”>

Read: TDs won’t get to vote on Sinn Féin’s abortion motion. Here’s why>

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Comments (57 Comments)

  • “We now know that is wrong…”? Only now? That has been obvious for a very long time.

    Reply
  • And there’s Jesus!! Was wondering when he would stick his head in! For a man apparently looking after the entire universe he sure has a weird obsession with a little island off the coast of Europe doesn’t he? Are there any pro-lifers out there who aren’t religious nuts? You go do what your imaginary friend tells you, the rest of us will discuss this serious issue in a logical, intelligent way.

    Reply
  • Godwin’s Law (Godwin’s Law of Nazi Analogies) – As an online debate grows longer the probability of mentioning Hitler or the Nazis approaches 1.

    It’s also a type of fallacious argument called Reduction ad Hitlerum, an attempt to refute a view because Hitler would have shared it.

    Reply
  • its not murder so you think its ok for a women to go into a hospital and beg for her life is ok and is refused a abortion because a fetal heartbeat is still heard even though the baby had no chance of survial . or its ok for women who has been raped to not have a choice the child is going to be born and be in pain for the rest of there life should not have a choice . see the problem with you pro lifers is you live in a world thats black and white right and wrong and nothing comes inbetween your wrong its not asking for abortion to be legal its asking in some cases women would be allowed to have a termantion . i guess that in 99% of pro lifers in the womens position would have a abortion to save their lives the other 1% would die needless but proud that have kept their morals

    Reply
  • We are about to witness the largest band wagon on the planet. It’s such a shame that a beautiful young woman had to die before they all wanted to get on.

    Reply
    • yea they are on it like flys on sh1te.
      no morals just political gain

      Reply
    • I hope you’re discounting the people who were trying to legislate back in april i.e. sinn fein and the ula in that statement.

      Reply
    • Sinn Fein pro life in the North and pro abortion in the South! Opportunist or what? Black and white, no grey please.

      Reply
    • Sinn Fein views are consistent on this issue north and south, I say this as someone who would never vote for them,

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    • Shay, I have nothing for or against SF. But their stance now, after the Galway case, on abortion differs from their policy in NI.

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    • So despite reasonable requests not to turn this issue into a political party point scorer, inevitably somebody tries to elevate the political standing of parties as the core issue.
      For the record SF are opposed to UK type legislation for abortion, ie abortion on demand. And it would appear all other parties are too. No inconsistency there so perhaps just stick to the issue at hand.

      Reply
    • Stephen, my original comment and believe is that there is political opportunism being sought. I genuinely couldn’t care less if it’s FG, SF, FF, Labour. All political parties on this Island have let this country down. Spin it whatever way suits, SF are opposed to abortion in NI and are now trying to broker it is the South. It would be much more honourable to say “is the light of recent events SF has reconsidered it’s standing on, bla, bla, bla…”

      Reply
    • sf have a different reason for the anti north and pro south mainly because they are two opposite legalitys where one allows it on demand ie.the north and allowing it in the south for medical cases ..
      be more informed before you compare different situations

      Reply
  • Confusion, obfuscation, irrelevance and party loyalty do not serve the public interest. We need to focus on the substantive issue. Under Irish law, including Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution, do women have a right to life which prevails over the preservation of the foetus? I believe that Article 40.3.3 is dangerous to the lives of pregnant women in certain cases. If this is accepted, we don’t need to wait for Expert Reports or fact finding inquiries. These are valid exercises but they do not and should not prevent urgent action to make the law safe for women.

    The sad reality is that the pro-life group are already adamantly opposed to changing the law and they want to take the momentum and passion out of the movement for necessary reform.

    We actually don’t need the Ryan Report, HSE fact finding reports or paralysis by analysis. We need to give mothers the overriding and priority right to life which prevails over the preservation of the foetus. We can find excuses not to confront this issue but that lack courage and decency.

    As a man stated today in the Irish Times, his wife comes before all the unborn in the universe. That is an essential truth.

    Reply
  • look it aoife all im saying is there is thousands of irish women travelling to the uk every year to get a abortion and in these womens cases proper after care needs to be given . take the example of a women being raped she had decided she wants a abortion as she cannot continue on with the pregancy for her own mental health she is forced to travel over to the uk to do something she has already going to do should she be made and endure more pain and misrey then she is already feeling and after that she cannot visit het own gp for aftercare. people get abortion for all sorts of reasons do you really think that the women is going saying yes yes im aborting no they think about it very carefully . if it was legal there would be better services out there for them to make a informed choice . the key word aoife is choice . you can choose to live your life by the way you would like to but you have the choice to live how you do others have the choice to live there lives and you should not judge somebody choices as it was their choice and people live with their choices in life

    Reply
  • Aoife Smyth, please report the calling for the murder of children to An Garda Siochana. You will have the full support of the pro choice movement. None of us want to see children killed. I condemn outright anyone who calls for the murder of children. Just one small question? Do you have any evidence at all to back up that extraordinary allegation?

    Reply
  • Stop being an ar*e.

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  • it should be passed to me it doesnt go far enough 4000 women every year travel to the uk for a abortion many more get the abortion pill on line for these women abortion should be legal so better aftercare can be provided . at this point in time you cannot get full information on choices from your own gp. just because abortion is legal does not mean every women will get one im sure nobody gets one without fully thinking about it . im not pro abortion im pro choice . a women should be allowed to know all the choices that are advailable to her and should be able to decide what they want to do. some pro lifers see the world in black and white right and wrong when most things fall inbetween these

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    • What you say makes complete sense to me for one any way.

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    • I’ve been pro-abortion since a teenager to control the resourse selfish/squandering human population and respect China’s prior 1 child policy. However, Ireland has no Child Support Agency. Therefore, responsibly, you may terminate your own child (after discussion with the father, should you know him) if not ready to provide for/be ready for children but you will still pay for someone elses ‘choice’.

      This has lead to a demographic and class disparity elsewhere. The perma-dole dwellers re-produce at a higher volume than the tax-generators as it benefits them, literally (eg Baby Bonus in Australia). In addition, its another nail in the coffin of a traditional society; one morning you’ll wake up not recognising your own country.

      Is that progress? Living as a debt slave in a bankrupt country populated by those for which you share no cultural empathy??

      Reply
  • This “I’m opposed to abortion on demand” mantra is a very tiring and cynical. The language “on demand” suggests that the 4000+ women who have abortions in the UK every year do so on a whim. The efforts of politicians to avoid using the word abortion when calling for legislation for the X case is also cynical. If they are calling for legislation for the X case then it means they want a woman to be allowed to have an abortion in certain albeit limited circumstances.

    Reply
  • can i just say that comparing a womens choice what to do with her body with hilter is a bit on the mental side hmmmm

    Reply
  • reply to smyth;
    is there any logic to you at all ? you and your pretend friend up stairs really need to get a grip!
    women are having terminations ( in the uk)
    women will make the choice not the government and not the church
    we were having this discussion back in the 60′s
    time to join the real world!

    Reply
    • Patricia you say pretend friend up stairs, I talk about the Lord our God who you will see on the day of your death. you may believe nothing created all we see you call it evolution? the truth is God is the creator, but you deny that and then you say I can Murder Children in the womb and call it choice it is a choice many you will reap what you sow. have you looked at abort73.com? you may not be willing to see the truth?

      Reply
  • it is sad to say it but this has been a car crash for IRreland that was waiting to happen….’fraid it is time for the ultra conservatives to get real!!… btw .. same thing seems to apply to the anglican layalty who blocked the inevitable for a few more years tonight!!

    Reply
  • After reading the journal for over a year now, Aoife Smyth, your comments are both the most ridiculous and uneducated comments I have seen to date. I really hope your a troll otherwise you should go read a book (one that will educate you, not the bible)

    Reply
  • There has been enough talk around the X case … Now we need action!!! Pro Choice and proud

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  • but aoife your missing the point im saying its choice and women in ireland are making that choice everyday so proper aftercare should be provided and your asking people to look at a abortion video when you do not know the circumstances why this was performed or you do not know the person or resons why this was done this could have been done out of nessary. you have your opion i have mine lets leave it at that because this discussion will go no where i will never agree with your stance and you with mine .

    Reply
  • I can’t believe in this day and age a woman would want to bring a child into the world knowing it was going to suffer dreadful pain and would need full medical care and attention. Is there a woman out that would see her child suffer severe pain day in day out for life ?

    Reply
  • Well said Kellyanne….you’ve made great comments on this article. Pity not more of you out there.

    Reply
  • Aoife having read all your comments you actually come across as brainwashed and compassionless for the women around you. Your attitude makes me pity you rather than actually try to have a reasoned discussion with you. I will not be visiting either of the disgusting prolife zealote websites.

    Reply
  • excuse my bad grammer on last msg

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  • Just wondering where you got your unbiased statistics for the reasons for all the abortions? Imaginary friend maybe?

    Reply
  • Your imaginary friend has nothing to do with the real situation.

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  • Where did all of Kellyanne Ross’s great comments disappear to?

    Reply
  • Give it up no body wants to visit your propaganda websites. Now back to looking for moving statues and the likes.

    Reply
  • That woman is entitled to her opinion without people making derogatory remarks regarding her faith. I don’t agree with Ms Smyths statements but I certainly don’t agree with bigots making disrespectful comments because they do not share her views. I am not religious, but I do not feel the need to disrespect the faith of others and neither should you

    Reply
  • dear Aoife
    have you ever thought you might be wrong?? even just a little, I really mean a lot from my point of view any way.
    there must be a good counselor you could seek help from, your views are verging on OCD
    really there is help out there.

    Reply
  • dear aoife
    thanks for your reply, if by any chance I do meet up with the Lord God who ever on my death bed, or a magic teapot?
    I will be asking some hard questions as to why ?? Ireland has ended up as it has ? a country which allows children to be abused by men they think they can trust (pp’s) women who have no choice, ??? men and women inlove with power and their own importance even if it kills some one ?
    won’t bother going on, but would really like a face to face with your Lord God, bring it on!!

    Reply
  • I was very happy with Olivia Mitchell’s speech tonight. Great to see a Fine Gael TD pushing the issue.

    Reply
    • The same olivia mitchell who voted against legislating back in april?

      Oh, thats right, waiting for the expert group report. All of 70 pages that won’t see the light of day for 2 weeks after it was delivered to reilly. Which will then have the ‘advisors’ formulate a strategy, tell the party what stance to take on foot of the report who will then report to HQ and have you back on here in a fortnight defending the further delay on a decision until the new year, after the budget.

      Reply
    • Pity she only found her voice after someone died David.

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    • If we had legislated back in April we would have been wasting taxpayers money on the expert group report.

      Damned if we do, damned if we don’t.

      Reply
    • Pity your party doesn’t consider handing billions to bondholders ‘wasting taxpayers money’ in the same way you consider legislating to save womens lives ‘wasting taxpayers money’.

      How much taxpayers money would be worth saving a young womans life in a Galway maternity hospital David? Stop making excuses for your christian-right party. They cowered from doing the right thing in april and now they’ve blood on their hands.

      Reply
  • Luke 21/11/12 #

    Hitler was pro choice……in his own way.

    Reply
  • Dear John,

    I’ve noticed in your other posts you also fail to articulate a point and instead opt for the direct ad hominum.

    That means you win, of course.

    Reply
  • but the baby is not her body, it has its own body, why don’t they allow prostitution its there body, why don’t we allow suicide its our body? Kellyanne please do some research on abortion, I have talked to many women who had an abortion who where suicidal after it, they had deep regret, they could not go back. abortion also does great damage to women. Thanks for your Replies.

    Reply
    • If a woman it’s naturally miscarrying a seventeen week old fetus, it’s abhorrent that a doctor would put that womans life at risk in order for the highly unlikelihood of the fetus surviving. The woman can go on to have two or the more children in the future, so it’s impossible to know how many lives were actually lost last week. Aoife, your religious argument it’s unnatural, inhuman and most certainly without compassion. Shame on you.

      Reply
    • Adrian we do not know if a termination would of saved this lady? are you calling for abortion on demand? children are being Murdered because of choice, we all have a choice to let live or kill, thank God most of us chose not to kill. we will all die one day and stand before God, you might say I do not believe in him? but he is still there even if you claim not to believe? creation shows God is there, nothing didn’t create every thing

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    • Aoife, im afraid youve become so indoctrinated you cannot make the differentiation between a naturally aborted fetus, which is what was happening, and a viable pregnancy. Im not going anywhere near you “on demand” question as it has NOTHING to do with this argument. Your religious views are yours to hold, and you retain the right to hold them i would fight anyday for you to hold them. However, you do NOT have the right to determine the ethos of medical practises, nor do you have the right to use your religion to influence the laws of the state.
      By allowing this woman to die, when the power was there to save her, is that not inhuman and dispassionate? If your religion exhalts that view, then i feel very sorry for you.

      Reply
    • Aoife, yes, we DO KNOW that prompt termination would most probably save her life.

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    • G 21/11/12 #

      Miroslaw – We certainly do not know if a termination would have saved her life, women die during terminations as well. Medical treatment during a difficult pregnancy is complex and relies on the doctor in question doing their best to save the woman/baby by taking what they believe to be the best course of action in the individual case. The hysteria and amateur diagnoses of this case by people who don’t know the facts is astonishing in my view and in no way helpful.

      Reply
    • AOIFE.. I can see your viewpoint..(tho not agreeing) but you must realise that accepting that the baby has its own body means unfortunately this body was “inevitably” lost… the best outcome of an awful situation would surely have been to save 1 of the 2 lives… saving the mother would, i think you would agree, have given a chance in the future for others to live who have now been denied that !!! that seems to be a cruel society to me!

      Reply
  • Onward Frankfurt School Cultural Marxism!

    We will be there soon … then its time for the Useful Idiots (Sinn Fein & Labour minions) to be re-educated in the Gulags!

    Reply

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