Well I am not paying either and I will stay dirty if they turn off my water and I will sit in the council offices smell and all till my water us turned back on and I an not paying the HHC either and they can take my home brink by brick from me and rehouse me then and then they can all Fcku ffo Gilmore Kenny fine Gael Labour fine fail greens and anyone else that want to continue with these unfair unjust extra taxes we pay through our income already

What I suspect they may be about to do is suggest households without a meter pay a flat charge. Households with a meter would pay whatever water they use so if the flat charge goes up over time, the expectation would be that more and more households will install a meter at their own expense. Once tap water becomes commodified like energy I expect the medium/long term ambition will be to begin exporting to the UK and elsewhere through Irish Water who may or may not have been privatised by then, depending on how things work out with the Troika. I also wonder how they plan to charge industry for water use, given they use massive amounts?

@ Colm – it’s probably a safe bet to say you dont qualify to pay the household fee in the first place, and thereafter to categorise more than half of your fellow citizens as idiots. Are you sure you know who the idiots are?

@buckwheat yeah i know who they are…the ones who paid, who already paid via PAYE and when they bought their houses. I do qualify, even though my estate is not finished…its just not finished enough

@ Buckwheat, could you please clarify, what was it that made you think that commenter wouldn’t be liable for the HHC?

cause Shanti,
Buckwheat read the tea leaves this morning,
and to be sure, he gazed into his crystal ball.

In other words, consulted with the main Gubbermint advisor,
Mystic Meg

P.S. Be prepared for the feckers to rent them to us!

Paddy you could write a book on the things that labour shower said before they lied their way into government and what they done once they got there.

And make a movie longer than “Titanic”, “Heaven’s Gate” & the 3 “Godfather” movies put together !!

Here Dec – you forgot the extended Lord of the Rings movies.. They need more time!!

Depends in the meter, some of the water meters in England charge you for it raining (as the meter is determined by the water leaving the house) so if rain water gets in, you get charged for using that as well.. It was on Watchdog last year (and if they’ve been using meters and charging in the UK and messing it up so spectacularly, you can imagine how well our guys will do it)..

Whats new?

We pay for everything else.

They can LickMeStarfish!!!!!

That’s the way they do it in Australia Brian. Allowance depends on the number of people in the household. You then pay for the water you use over your allowance. Very fair. It’s up to you how careful or wasteful you are therefore how much you will pay.

good way of doing it Brian

Hopefully common sense will prevail but I doubt it!

If the waterways weren’t leaking so badly we would probably save an entire reservoir or two..

Brian the biggest waste is by the people that run the system the same as the biggest poluters in the country are not industry or farmers but local authorities. How many of them have been brought to court. Im not paying for broken systems. Fix the problems & you might get me to the table. All this sh##e talk about patriotic duty. Grow up you are all being led like lambs to slaughter. If we stand our ground on all these issues we will force these politicans to respect us & change the way the country is run. Thats what patriotism is fixing this unjust country.

The water here in D7 is OK.

Our water tastes of chlorine, some days it’s worse than others, and that’s after it’s been filtered..
And the fact it’s got medication that I did not consent to nor do I require in it is not only extremely unethical it’s also dangerous.. Hence why we are the only country in the EU who still engages in this ridiculous behaviour.

now now, less of the thumbs down,
lets not forget about the plumbers….

Think of the plumbers will yis

Isn’t it quite like asking people to fork out more cash so they can create jobs with it? How long before they start asking people to pay their own wages?

@gay pea, people do pay their own wages, or at least in most cases they generate the wealth they get in reward for work, plus whatever the boss swipes off the top. except for the civil service, they generate wealth in a growing economy and consume wealth in a shrinking economy

Moral of the story- they’re all a bunch of cu….

FG / Lab are the continuity FF who like the last lot deny the existence of a bail out 2 (appearing at a department near you soon) that’s on it’s way that’s why they want the referendum passed but the vast majority of the Val Falvey types just regurgitate what they are told and would not know a Lorenzo curve from a curve in the road

He should know though, they did write the book on broken promises and deceit didn’t they?

Correct ged_star. We are in this mess coz of their failure to govern. Ireland is surrounded by water. Why don’t we have a desalination policy here ? Was looking at a programme on BBC World the other week about that process in Israel. It seems they are world leaders in that respect. Would be something to look into in Ireland.

Declan.. Any idea what desalination costs? Israel can afford it because the US is footing the bill.. In Cyprus they have desalination plants, and they’re so expensive to run that the people only have running water 12 hours per day and it’s not drinkable..

It’s not really a viable solution, unless you don’t mind paying for that sort of service..

Was just throwing out an idea there, Shanti Om. If it’s way too expensive then. Ah, well !! Just a thought. Cheers !!

Sadly it is, but thankfully we shouldn’t need it.. The reason Israel and Cyprus etc have desalination is because they don’t get the rainfall, and we certainly get enough of that :)

Desalination was an option as part of the studies done, not much info at the link but it will direct you to overall scheme if you are interested http://www.watersupplyproject-dublinregion.ie/index.php?page=abstration-from-the-irish-sea

Will give it a look. Tnks.

If these charges are what drives anyone out of this country can’t wait to see their reaction when they are faced with the equivalent charges in which ever country they go to. Are people really naive enough to think all services are free elsewhere. Remember too that people renting will not come across these charges aboard , so when your friends report back that they don’t have to pay that is why. When they buy a house , oh boy, then they will find out that services have to be paid for.

Everything u contribute is consistently negative

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10797988

The UN has declared that access to clean water and sanitation is a fundamental human right.
The resolution was passed with 122 nations in favour, none against and 41 abstentions. It “declares the right to safe and clean drinking water and sanitation as a human right that is essential for the full enjoyment of the right to life”.

IIRC Ireland is a signatory.

Roy, do you think it is any different anywhere else? Granted the wholesale corruption has been rather enormous here but have you ever seen how Spain works? or Greece? or France? It is the same the world over and we can only continue to chip away at it in this country, it is not going to disappear overnight! That is not to say it should go unchallenged but it really is a task that is going to take a long time.

Sad comment

Paul, you would think right? However, so much money was frittered away during the boom years that there is nothing left to fund the works. Infuriating right? The money from the meters will fund repairs amongst other things, the leaky system will affect the supply but hopefully the metering will result in sufficient funds to improve all aspects of the water supply system.

Not when it’s monopoly money from the tax payer..

Nothing much to add to that. I’m going print this off and have it ready for the next lot of FG/Lab or FF that decide to turn up on my door step. Nicely put, well done.

Free Housing??? are you talking about homeless hostels, if not and you are talking about those who live in council dwellings, well I hate to have to burst your bubble because believe it or believe it not council tennents do actually pay rent and if you dont pay it you get evicted quicker than you would for dealing drugs from your home. And a lot of people pay 160 euros per week rent.

This is a reply to – Boildyeggs (comment below) dont know how it got up here :O/

More protests on the cards

Well it is called the Campaign Against Household and Water Taxes! ;)

Join your local group. Info on http://www.NoHouseholdTax.org

You are probably too young to remember but about 26ish years ago water charges were introduced. Then, as now, we had a shower of muppets who refused to pay so the charges were dropped. Now try and imagine if we had had this revenue available over the years we could have had a good efficient clean (remember the water trouble in galway?) water system in place. Some people seem to think that nothing needs paying for. Maybe those people are used to getting hand outs for everything and just can’t grasp the concept!

The revenue WAS available mcbab , it was called the celtic tiger years. But instead in investing in the water system and other essential infrastructure FF lined their friends pockets and gave tax breaks to people who didn’t need them.

We spend more per year fluoridating the water supply that the HHC was supposed to bring in.
We could save all that money by just ceasing this unethical forced medication of the public, especially when you consider that the EU has warned against using this water for baby formula as it is NOT SAFE, why do you think you’re not supposed to swallow toothpaste?

But hey, why would we do that? It’s not like it, y’know, makes sense or anything..

Stay away if you possibly can.
Its if we are honest, in your own best interests.

Do you have a link to that scheme? Send it on to the boys in blue and red. They might learn something; actually, they may just emigrate themselves! -;)

Sean. If you owned a house there in Australia you would be paying for your water and a property tax so cop on!

So Sinn Féin will do what differently? They won’t implement EU Directives which we have signed up to as a country? Even if they decide to leave the EU what will they do then to fund services? Sinn Féin can do no differently, we have to start paying for services.

You mean SF might tell Germany and France where to go?
O’ the horror!
There’s me worrying sick about them and their bondholders!

NOT!!!

So they tell the EU to pee off, what then? You don’t want to pay for water or anything really so what will SF do? Magic the money from somewhere??

EMD

you know this how????? Maybe from the last time Sinn Fein held the majority of seats in the Dail? No – maybe because you are privey to the inner sanctums of Sinn Fein? No – then is it because you are a soothsayer? No, well then we can all just take it that it is yet more of the same verbal drivel from you. Off with you and go back to writing out more cheques to the government.

Ann you are unbelievable ignorant as you repeatedly display when you comment on here.

NEWSFLASH to you and all the other supposed socialists behaving like dictators on The Journal: People are allowed to disagree with your opinion, there is a possibility that you are wrong just as you insist that they must be wrong! You may support SF/ULA/PBP but the rest of us don’t have to and have the right to dissent, you may have fallen for the blatant lies FG/Lab told before the elections but not all of us did so forgive us if we get a bit peeved at your constant refusal to accept what was obvious to some of us.

Finally comments like “verbal drivel” and “cheques to the government” are not responses to comments or even an intelligent argument, they are quite simply childish ignorant insults.

If you kow me that well EMD you will know that I did not, nor have I EVER, voted for either FG or Lab who in my book, have always been self serving traitors who are only interested in feathering their own nests. Nor am I an ignorant lefty, you however, will contunue to prove yourself to be a condescending arrogant know it all.
How do you know what Sinn Fein would or would not do if they were in office – do you have a crystal ball? Are you privey to their inner sanctum – well? NO is the simple answer to that question.

didn’t say YOU voted for FG/Lab and neither did I call you an ignorant leftie, I said MAY have voted for FG/Lab and so called socialists. I said you were ignorant, that your nasty insults were ignorant because you were rude to me right? Oh of course you weren’t, using words like verbal drivel, telling me to be off and write cheques to the government is intelligent debate??

Ann, cop on to yourself please and stop trying to belittle people by calling them arrogant amongst other things. as I said before bring a decent argument as to why I shouldn’t query what Sinn Féin would do differently, never mentioned crystal balls or anything else but merely gave my opinion that there would be no difference whatsever as services are still going to have to be paid for. Please come back with a proper opinion and evidence about how Sinn Féin would do differently and I’m happy to debate with you but don’t bother with anymore of the insulting tirades you launch at me and others daring to differ from you.

They tried to cut people off before..
There was blue murder
Believe me it won’t happen..
They havnt the ba*#*ls for it..

Could they cut it off though? Electricity is not a basic human requirement. Telephones are not basic human requirements. Gas is not a basic human requirement. Water, however, is. To cut the water supply off would contravene our fundamental human rights.

In Uk they don’t cut the water supply off to a domestic household so i’d say it will be the same here. they do harrass and threaten you but they dont do it.

They are doing auditions for Scrooge next week plenty of candidates here who have not got the honour to pay up this small amount just want to cry and make petty excuses for one reason or another, same people would sqander double that amount on drink and smokes over a week end , welcome to Ireland folks the land of skinflint people that have double standards !!!!!!!

Hugh
I do not know why you keep posting your comments under my posts . I have told you I do not go to pubs , I do not drink alcohol, I do not smoke . Ask some one else :) The answer will always be NO from me . Like your Masters learn to accept rejection . I am not making excuses . My answer is NO , NO, NO

You have a well. Your water is CLEAN. It doesn’t have industrial waste pumped into it nor is it full of chlorine.. Why should we pay to be forcibly medicated with water that most of the time is not fit for purpose?

I do pay for my water, I pay to make it drinkable. I have to pay for my own filtration system. Now I’m being told to pay for the chlorine and fluoride that comes out of my tap, no doubt through copper or lead pipes that are leaking to high heaven.. And we can always count on a few outbreaks of cryptosporidium per year and boil water notices can’t we?
Believe me, if I didn’t live in a built up area, I’d be happy to invest in a well.

I do not give my consent to be fluoridated. If I wanted to drink chlorine I’d fill up at the swimming pool. THAT’S what I object to, if the water was of saleable quality I wouldn’t object, but it’s like the household charge, I already pay for my bin collections etc so what’s the HHC paying for exactly?

The government keeps coming up with all these charges, when are they gonna deliver the service to match? FFS it’s like Ryanair charging all those little extras for nothing just so they can say the fare is cheap (yes, Ireland is a low tax country, until you add up all the indirect taxes)..

What’s “crypto………”, Shanti Om ?

I know it’s wiki but it’s only for a general idea http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptosporidium
Not to mention e. coli etc, all of which is floating around the water we are expected to pay for, yay!!

OMG !! I clicked out when I saw “human feces”. There’s a curry off the menu for later !!!

That’s where you get e. coli from too Dec :/

Water can’t be properly cleaned and treated if the money isn’t there to upgrade and maintain the treatment plants we have, should have been done during Celtic Tiger years but no everyone was too busy spending to care. Drinking water is constantly being polluted from malfunctioning septic tanks, not popular to mention, farm pollution, industrial pollution, siltation from inaapropriate development along river banks, removal of river vegetation, over grazing, turf cutting and I could go on. But hey we can’t talk about those things because it is not cool to get people to realise that they play a part in the poor water quality, it is much easier to blame the government. You want the towns and cities to have good wastewater treatment then you are going to have to pay for it somehow so unless we all start paying for these services we are never going to get them and that is fact like it or not.

EMD,
We spend more on fluoridation annually than we were expected to generate from the household charge.
The Irish government has been provided with a wealth of peer reviewed research – as requested by them – to show why this process should be stopped. They chose to continue, this has cost a lot of money over the years, and could save it for us now.
I have no issue paying for water that is not contaminated, like I said, I pay to filter that water now. If I didn’t have to filter my own water I would gladly pay for it. The fact is, the government are forcibly medicating me, violating my right to bodily integrity. I will not pay them to violate my constitutional rights.

Hey Shanti, can you give me a good link please on fluoridation? I find it very hard to make out the truth from the scaremongering on this particular issue so would appreciate a couple of good scientific report.

Thanks a mill

http://www.flouridealert.org do a good job of collating data, you should be able to find quite a few on there :)

Thanks Shanti, I fear a gruelling read awaits :-)

@Thomas… we will see how your view will change when they bring in the Well Wter Tax. Don think its as daft as it sounds… everyone must pay… on the mains or not.

Brian
None of this is funny . . No more.

Thats Nice !!!!!!!!!

Will social housing be exempt. So I choose to work and buy a house. And for doing that they want to impose further strain on my household with this fee.
So I decide to quit work, and seek social housing, I won’t have to pay the household tax and free water to piss down the drain.
I know it’s not all who live on social housing that chose to be there, but if this tax is to be imposed, then it must be done fairly across all households. Off course the fairest system is no charge as my taxes already pay for this.

No surprise there susie. Let us know when you will pay for SOMETHING!

I have paid , when I paid for my own home . when I pay my taxes .

Now mcbab @ I am really trying to place you . I believe you are a FG apologist have we discussed things before ?

Boildyeggs @ , social housing is always exempt , I am sick of it too. It is so unfair , and like you I do not begrudge any one there home but no one should be paying this.

Some people just want things for free,the same prople who whinge about paying 100 euro would easily spend that in an off licence or pub in the course of one week, typical , but then again what would you expect from such types

Hugh
I do not drink , I do not go into pubs , so tell me what types are you referring to ? I pay my mortgage, I pay my bills. Learn some manners you overgrown boy.

Why are people assuming that council tennents wont have to pay the water tax? I know they dont have to pay the HHC because they pay the council rent but they will actually have to pay for their water, just like they have to pay for their gas and electric. Water is just another utility. Theres an awful lot of bullshit on here about people who rent off the councils. Has any of you not stopped to think that people who are on the dole after losing their jobs and live in private rented houses are entitled to help with their rent off the welfare and that costs a lot more. Not everyone gets the same start in life or even a good start in life and I reckon that there is a lot of you on here that probably came from coucil houses in council estates but just like to forget about that. How many of you grew up in the likes of Cabra, Tallaght, Donneycarney, Kilbarrack, Ballybrack.

What ? It is news . What do you want them to wait to report on this before it can be dicussed? I di not understand your thinking .

What is a beday?

its a yoke posh peoples wash their behinds with!

regardless of the spelling I get the point and your right. I hope we stop this too. No to taking the water from Lough Derg.

Eoin Ryan – you sound like your Faina Failure name snake – sorry meant sake.

Being a Dub forced out of Dublin, I can tell you that the majority of Dubs have not got bidets( I don’t even know how to spell them), nor are the majority of us posh. I agree that the water from Lough Derg being pumped to Dublin, is both ludicrous and unfair, but do not let this proposal divide us and conquer us. Just to be able to afford a descent standard of housing, I am already living over twenty miles, as the crow flies, from my ageing mother and similar distances from my siblings. Divide and conquer is the motto of conquerors. They are halfway there. Are we going to let them continue?. I think not.

We already pay for it simon, through direct and indirect taxation. How do you think we’ve ben paying for the water up till now? Difference now is, the money we’re still paying to fund our water has been pilfered by government to pay for bankers gambling debts. So we either pay for the same thing twice, or refuse and insist our taxes be put to their intended use.

If it is to be introduced, “everyone” ought to pay. No exemptions. Everyone must pay something at least.

Everyone already pays Declan, and always has. There is no fair way to make people pay twice for the same thing.

It’s not right to compare it to electricity or gas.. These are conveniences.

Without water you die.

Big difference.

I’m fed up to the back teeth with austerity, “all” Irish politicians & have become so what anti EU, Too Trueleft. I joke that mother nature should inhale on one megga spliff & cover the entire planet for a week in smoke from the “weed”. Why ? So we can all fk.n chill out.

Should read – “have become somewhat anti ………” – D’oh !!

Shanti cut off your gas and electricity and see how you manage without these “conveniences” in modern Ireland.

Declan, I’m not happy about the state of the country but I really think we haven’t even seen austerity when you compare the cuts in say Greece. When was the last time you saw your neighbours going through dustbins and people who once had good jobs lining up for free food? Very few of us see poverty like that thanks in particular to the social welfare system here. I understand the fear of paying more money out, who doesn’t but this charge is not due to be implemented until 2014 and the meter is not being paid for as has been implied here but as a standing charge over time. It may not be as awful as people think, it hopefully will be tiered in such a way that the average person will manage their water consumption easily to stay in the cheapest bands. It will also be based on number of people in house I think.

My point there was more that water is essential for human survival (as in, you can die of dehydration) whereas many survive on our streets at night without gas or electricity.. They shouldn’t have to by any means, but it does show the difference between the two..
I totally get what the point you are making is, perhaps my initial point was not sufficiently clear..

Ok fair enough Shanti I see your point, I think the whole issue has grown legs and that we should all relax until we start hearing some more definitive statements from Department of Environment and the government.

And pay for it ?

Jerry, when all the corrupt politicians and bankers and property developers that got us into this mess are sent to jail, only then will I be patriotic and pay my way, why should I have to suffer when politicians both old and new are getting massive pay packets, massive pension and expenses, one rule for them and another for us.

Amen to that. Start leading by example.

Thats a good point Chris – if the meter is fitted outside your house the meter reader man will spend his day bent over or getting down on his hunkers to read the meter. There’ll be alot of claims in the courts for work related repetitive stress injuries to back, knees and ankles. Health and safety will have something to say about that.