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Dublin: 10 °C Saturday 25 May, 2013

Explainer: How Israel developed its ‘Iron Dome’ rocket defence system

Israel’s Iron Dome missile defence system has been used heavily over the last week. Here’s the story behind it…

Israeli soldiers lie on the ground as an Iron Dome missile is launched near the city of Ashdod
Israeli soldiers lie on the ground as an Iron Dome missile is launched near the city of Ashdod
Image: Moti Milrod/AP/Press Association Images

ON THE RECEIVING end of a Hamas’ rocket campaign, Israel has been looking for an effective defence for years.

With questions about the US Patriot missile system abounding, there was no doubt Israel’s new rocket defence needed to be built from the ground up and dedicated to intercepting short range incoming rockets.

By the end of the Second Lebanon War in 2006, Israel was tired of waiting and started developing the ‘Iron Dome’ platform that currently protects the country.

Developed by Haifa-based Rafael SPYDER, a company already known for its anti-aircraft systems, the Iron Dome has three separate parts to which it owes its success.

  • Detection and Radar Tracking designed by a second Israeli defence company, Eltna, sits at the rear of the potential strike zone and layers the area with 40 kilometres of radar waves (about 25 miles). Picture a projector at the rear of a theatre shooting light at the screen, the radar covers an area in that pattern for up to 40 kilometres.
  • The raw data absorbed by the radar is sent to the middle Dome component called the Battle Management and Control (BMC) centre, built by mPrest Systems. This is a small workspace filled with monitors and electronics where IDF personnel interpret the radar information. If the team determines the incoming object is a threat to a populated area, they light up the rocket firing unit by offering new coordinates.
  • The Missile Firing Unit, stationed in yet a third location, receives the coordinates from BMC, layers them over its own tracking algorithms and fires a Tamir missile that’s equipped with sensors and fins that make it highly maneuverable. From available pictures it looks like each firing station holds 20 rockets.

Mideast Israel Palestinians

Israeli soldiers look at an Iron Dome missile as it launched near the city of Ashdod (Ariel Schalit/AP/Press Association Images)

We’ve watched over the past couple years as the Iron Dome was released and put through its paces, finally getting operationally deployed to Beersheba in late March 2011. Israel had spent huge sums getting the Iron Dome on the field, but it still needed more than three stations deployed around the country.

The $200 million offered by the Obama White House in 2010 helped build a fourth instalment.

In March of this year Israel announced the Iron Dome had successfully intercepted 90 percent of incoming Gaza missiles that would have landed in populated Israeli areas.

Within a month of that announcement, the US House of Representatives Armed Services subcommittee ranked by Representative Howard Berman (Democrat-California) and chaired by Representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Republican-Florida) approved an additional $680 million in funding for the Iron Dome.

The Dome funding has all been in addition to the $3 billion a year the US provides to Israel’s defence budget.

It appears the U.S. indeed got what it paid for. Tony Capaccio at Bloomberg questioned some high ranking officials at the Pentagon Friday, Nov. 17 who corroborate the 90 per cent success rate.

Israeli officials including Ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren said the system has been about 90 per cent effective this week against the Hamas rockets fired from Gaza against Israel.

Mideast Israel Palestinians

An Israeli Iron Dome missile is launched near the city of Be’er Sheva, southern Israel (Ahikam Seri/AP/Press Association Images)

That figure is seen as credible by analysts such as Steve Zaloga, who’s with the Fairfax, Virginia-based Teal Group.

“What they mean is, of the rockets that they are actually shooting at, they are hitting 90 percent,” Zaloga said in a telephone interview yesterday.

The military has been “tweaking” the system for improvements since its first combat intercept in April 2011 because “early on they weren’t scoring at that rate,” he said.

Ninety per cent “is an extremely high level,” Zaloga said. “Air defence systems are typically not in that range.”

Israel has achieved this success using only four Iron Dome batteries. Nine additional batteries are expected by 2013. Currently, Israel doesn’t even try to shoot down all of Hamas’ missiles.

Hamas is renowned for throwing together incredibly crude projectiles that may never become a threat at all as they head into Israel. The Iron Dome’s second stage Battle Management and Control is where human input decides whether the incoming object is a threat and launches a $90,000 rocket to neutralise the possibility. Or not.

Capaccio also reports Prime Minister Netanyahu is so satisfied with Iron Dome’s results he called President Obama Friday to express his “deep appreciation” for US funding of the Dome, “which has saved countless Israeli lives.”

- by Robert Johnson, reproduced with permission from Business Insider.

Published with permission from:

Business Insider
Business Insider is a business site with strong financial, media and tech focus.

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Comments (131 Comments)

  • Denito 22/11/12 #

    That’s pretty cool.
    It’s like being able to hit a pucked out sliotar in mid air with another sliotar.

    Reply
  • Barry 22/11/12 #

    You have some people in the US claiming this system proves that the whole Star Wars defense system idea from the 80′s works…..but its no proof at all.

    Its one thing shooting down some unsophisticated rockets (and it doesn’t even do that 100% of the time) but its another altogether shooting down advanced missiles

    Reply
  • Here’s a radical thought, instead of building more weaponry and preparing for war who not agree on a two state solution based on mutual respect and the UN approved 1967 boundaries?

    All the star wars nonsense in the world wont bring peace to Israel and Palestine. Peaceful co-existence is the only long term solution.

    Reply
    • Ah now Ben…is it sinkin the economy you’re after…

      ..er hang on..they’ve that mission accomplished already.

      Reply
    • Revert to 1967 boundaries? Remember why and how those boundaries were acquired in the first place? How long do you think the nation of Israel would survive if Iranian proxies had access to the Golan Heights? The nation of Israel is physically bordered by enemies who’s avowed purpose is it’s destruction – Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt. Jordan & Egypt have treaties which state otherwise, however Egypt has been legally taken over by the Muslim Brotherhood and is firmly both anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish ( and anti-Christian too I might add). Jordan is struggling with anarchical forces and may not survive in it’s present state much longer. Syria’s rebels are extremist-supported and rabidly anti-Israeli. Assad was a contained threat prior to the “Spring” movement. Lebanon we know about – it’s a seething pot of anti-Israeli and anti-Jew activity and a permanently hostile territory to it’s southern neighbours.
      If Israel reverts to the borders of 1967 she would not last 12 months.
      The UN has no moral authority. After all, it appointed Saudi Arabia and Libya to the HRC. Not forgetting China, Indonesia, Uganda and other bastions of freedom. Without the US to restrain it, the UN would simply condemn Israel to oblivion, of not actually support war against her.
      The Palestinian people are human beings deserving of a chance to live freely and unimpeded in this world, but how come, knowing their charter to destroy Israel completely, they freely elected Hamas as their government? Was it because the voters desire to be at war with Israel? I suppose if you grow up being taught by state educators that Jews are subhuman pigs then you will vote for an organisation which pledges destruction of Jews and Israel. Also, how come the Palestinians brother Muslims and brother Arabs don’t allow them to integrate, even partially, in their counties? After all, Israel has already absorbed Arabs to the point where they make up a quarter of their population.
      The Palestinian people are the victims of the sadistic and careless dictatorships of the middle east, who know that as long as the Muslims of the region are focused on Israel and the Palestinians, the spotlight will not shine so brightly on their own despicable human rights abuses.

      Reply
    • Sooo..it was the Arabs that evicted and terrorised the Palestinians into Gaza and the eroding West Bank reservations…

      Ta for that update there, Kieran.

      Reply
    • Yeah Damien, I suppose I could be more specific.
      The Palestinian people are the PAWNS of the sadistic and careless dictatorships of the middle east, who know that as long as the Muslims of the region are focused on Israel and the Palestinians, the spotlight will not shine so brightly on their own despicable human rights abuses.
      And you, my friend, would appear to have an iron dome over your head that will not entertain any suggestion whatsoever that there is more than the nation of Israel and her only ally involved in the subjugation of the Palestinian people. Israel must contain a very real and present danger to her citizens. What’s the excuse of the rest of the middle east?

      Reply
    • Make that sadistic and careless governments of the middle east and Israel is right there in the mix.

      The thing is, if Israel comes to a satisfactory settlement with Palestine, begins to adhere to international law, allows in the ICC, etc., not only will they have the US at their back, they’ll have the whole world.

      Reply
    • Sorry Kieran, but I cannot be arst getting down and trading insults with you.
      Nice of you to admit though that Israel is involved in the subjugation.
      But I will ask have you noticed that a few of these Arab states you are on about are western client regimes, often used as proxy torturers in the offshore rendition archipelago.

      Oh, and I’m not your friend, sunshine.

      Reply
    • Kieran, Israel on its 67 borders would still have the fourth biggest army in the world ,the support of the only superpower in the world, it’s nuclear arsenal ,and would be in no more danger of being wiped out than it is now. There was no Hezbullah in Lebanon before the 82 Israeli invasion. Is it any wonder the people of Gaza have elected Hamas given their living conditions, I do wonder though why the people of Israel would vote for the right wing lunatics they have if they are interested in peace. Regardless of what Hamas say they have no earthly chance of wiping out Israel , the Israeli government had no problem with the Hamas charter when they were funding them. The Palestinian Arabs have absorbed the Jewish citizens,not the other way around, they have been there a lot longer . You cannot dismiss the UN as simply picking on Israel , it’s the same as disregarding any criticism of Israel as being anti Semitic . If Israel want out of the spotlight of muslim public opinion they should end the occupation and negotiate in good faith towards a two state solution

      Reply
  • Israeli murder of Gazan civilians, as an occupying power (by both UN definition & reality) are war crimes.

    Unless the US ceases its monetary & military support for Israel it is complicit in war crimes.

    Former US President Jimmy Carter writes in his book following years of research into the conflict, that Israel’s objective of many years is not peace, rather the theft of all Palestinian land & removal of all Palestinians, by force as required.

    I believe he is right & is supported by the facts of Israel’s behaviour.

    “…A fact not known by most Americans, who see Jabari as merely a leader of “terrorists,” is that Israeli activist Gershon Baskin confirmed that Jabari was engaged in peace settlement negotiations with Israel. In fact, he was due to send Hamas’ version of a draft agreement to Baskin on the Wednesday evening before he was killed. It’s worth asking: Did Israel intend to torpedo those efforts?

    The rest of the story is tragic history. Jabari’s killing triggered Operation Pillar of Defense, and it continues to unfold….”

    and:

    “….Israel ignored the nascent truce and assassinated Hamas military chief Ahmad al-Jabari. (It is questionable whether Israeli officials ever really wanted a truce. As Phyllis Bennis from the Institute for Policy Studies wrote in The Nation: “Earlier this year, on the third anniversary of the Gaza assault of 2008/9, Israeli Army Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz told Army Radio that Israel will need to attack Gaza again soon, to restore what he called its power of ‘deterrence.’ He said the assault must be ‘swift and painful,’ concluding, ‘we will act when the conditions are right.’ Perhaps this was his chosen moment.”)…”

    http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/289-134/14657-4-common-myths-about-israel-and-gaza

    Just as murderous apartheid South Africa faced international sanctions & boycott, so should Israel & it’s leaders indicted for war crimes.

    Reply
    • Why don’t you go off to go the the US and arrest Obama then?

      “Just as murderous apartheid South Africa faced international sanctions & boycott, so should Israel & it’s leaders indicted for war crimes.”
      But not Syria or Saudi or Bahrain, eh?
      …oh, how could I forget? The Israelis are also guilty of being Jew.

      Reply
    • …oh, how could I forget? The Israelis are also guilty of being Jew.

      Oh yawn. That doesn’t work any more, Ruth.

      Reply
    • @ SaintRuth

      Ah…I see the usual Israeli propagandists & apologists are here with the de riguer ‘anti-semite’ cr@p. Are you perhaps Jewish & is that the sole basis upon which you give the murderous Israeli regime your support?

      Human rights abuses in Saudia Arabia & especially in Bahrain deserve international condemnation & action, but they are not the topic at hand here.

      I subscribe to no religeon, my interest is justice.

      If I had the opportunity & the UN mandate, I would certainly make arrests, but I would start with Israel’s present & former leaders.

      Reply
    • Again it’s worth pointing out its only the pro Zionist using the word Jew in this argument. It getting rather old now.

      Reply
    • Petr, I think you’ll find condemning anti-Sematism has never worked.

      The point is the abuses in Syria and Saudi etc never seem to be topic.

      It’s always Israel Israel Israel. One has to ask why?
      What’s the difference between their attacks and their neigbours attacks?
      I can only see one difference…
      Though perhaps you can tell me why Isreal deserves more condemnation than Syria or Saudi?

      Reply
    • Saudi is a vile, reactionary regime. But they are a strong ally of the US. Being best buddies with the most powerful country in the world often gets you a free pass from scrutiny from the corporate media; just ask the equally vile Bahraini regime.

      As for Syria, are you joking? There has been wall to wall coverage and condemnation!

      Reply
    • Ruth, arrest Obama and bring him before which Court? The US has refused to ratify the Rome Statute establishing the International Criminal Court, although their attitude isn’t as openly hostile as it was under Bush (for some unknown reason). Sudan and Israel are the only other states who aren’t accepting the minimum obligations under the statute, being to refrain from acts that “tend to defeat” the object of the Statute. The object of the Statute being to bring war criminals to justice.

      Kinda telling, don’t you think?

      Reply
    • I’m not defending all of Israel’s actions here but the fact is that Hamas purposefully entrenches itself in amongst the civilIan population and uses them as a cover to launch their attacks. They want Israel to retaliate so they can then turn around and call them war mongerers in front of the international community and make themselves look like hapless victims in the process. They fired 600 rockets at Israel for feck sake, no country could be expected not to respond to that!

      Reply
  • That’s great, but it doesn’t excuse the killing of Palestinians at an almost 30:1 ratio. It isn’t a holocaust if they’re arabs apparently.

    Reply
    • Barry 22/11/12 #

      Agreed,

      As bad as things got in the north even the UK Government knew not to go after suspected members of the IRA and blow them up with a helicopter gunship as they were driving home…..its a idiotic thing to do because it creates a martyr!

      As for the rest of the murdering that Israel is doing, every time they murder a family or even just one person from that family they create people that see friends and family being murdered and will only want revenge on Israel…who could honestly blame them for wanting revenge?

      Reply
    • Sadly a very large amount of Israeli’s have no problem with dead Palestinians, they are viewed by many Israeli’s to being sub human to varying degrees.

      Reply
    • Almost like another crowd 70 years back.. nutzies, nazuuuls… nazos.. I dunno.

      Reply
    • I think the 23% of isrealis who are arabs might disagree

      Reply
    • @Barry

      Idiotic on a human level..but lucrative for the securocrats, just as the ‘war on terror’ has been for the Halliburton warriors and for the internal repression of civil rights and erosion of liberties. Biggest bonanza since Nam.

      Keep ‘em nervous…Orwell read it well. Find their trigger points.
      But first build them a viable external enemy.

      Reply
    • Brian 22/11/12 #

      @DaffodilDaze – Utter bulls***. How do you know this….have you spoken to them all? And I suppose an equally large amount of Palestinians shed buckets of tears when Israelis are killed?

      I have huge issues with the actions of both sides in this war but the reality is that if Hamas is removed from the equation it would be a huge step to bringing peace. Easier said than done I know and I doubt the average Palestinian is in a position to be worrying about who they elect. No matter what Israel does it will never be enough for Hamas.

      On the other hand, should Hamas be removed and replaced by people who are only interested in bringing about peace, Israel would have to sit down and talk with them.

      Reply
    • Build them a viable enemy?
      Oh, Damien you’re a funny guy.

      I think you’ll find Isreal’s neigbours do a good job of being Israel’s enemies…

      Or are you talking about the US? Your rant is a bit unclear.
      Regardless, in that case, 911 was a pretty good example of a viable enemy…

      Reply
    • I’ve been in Israel three times, (breaks from UN tours of duty in the Leb.) Israeli’s are not a shy people and they are very open to telling you what they think of Arabs, for that matter they are as quick to talk about the “monkeys” from Ethiopia, the black Jews.

      Extreme racism in Israel is a cultural norm there, as mainstream as it must have been in the U.S. south in the 50′s.

      Reply
    • @Saint Ruth

      Interesting that you respond with the 9/11 dismissal.

      Which was attributed to al Qaeda; a CIA built, Saudi Wahabbi funded, Pakistani ISI handled, fundamentalist Sunni terror organisation established to counter soviet expansion in the theatre of the imperial Great Game which was immediately targeted in Afghanistan with invasion and occupation and retrieval of the opium market supply for the heroin trade by reinstating the warlord minnions under Karzai Inc.
      The operation then swivelled to the long targeted Iraqi oilfields, and Libya and Syria as the overtly announced PNAC mobilised for the Iranian snatchback fouled up when the Shah’s hubris tumbled the edifice into the Ayatollah’s lap.
      Ask Lebanon about what a helpful neighbour Israel has always been since it was intruded into the Ottoman resource bank along with the carve up into franchised sectors by the imperial powers.

      Glad you find it all amusing. You are obviously unfamiliar with the peoples and background concerned.
      Enjoy your vacuous bliss.

      Reply
    • Brian 22/11/12 #

      Daffodil – Well, fair enough, you’ve been to Israel, which is more than can be said for most, myself included.
      I can only go on my experience of having met many Israelis over the years and I would say about 90 per cent had no ill-feeling towards ordinary Palestinians or Arabs in general. Of course there will always be a significant number who will despise Arabs given the antipathy towards Israel in that part of the world.

      But I’m not sure you can still make the assertion that extreme racism is the norm there, having visited but not lived in the country.

      Reply
    • What’s your point, Damien? We know the US funded the rebels in Afganistan (and look how the ungrateful bastrads repaid them).

      “Ask Lebanon about what a helpful neighbour Israel has always been since it was intruded into the Ottoman resource bank along with the carve up into franchised sectors by the imperial powers.”

      Eh, what? Ottoman resource bank?

      Reply
    • ruth dudely edwards by any chance? the most blinkered, pro-israeli lapdog anywhere, in response to irish peoples testament about being fired on by israeli soldiers in the gaza flotilla- ‘that is just hearsay’ because she wasnt there

      Reply
    • @St

      My point remains the original one I raised before you trolled on stage.

      The money-churn of war and its parasitic vampire suppliers.

      Reply
    • the war industry needs war

      Reply
    • DaffodilDaze. I spent 6 months working in Ashqelon Israel & I completely found the opposite to what you are saying. The vast vast majority of Israelis I met bear no illwill to Palestinians & would love to be able to live in peace with them.

      Reply
    • Revolting Peasant

      Ruth Dudley-Edwards has started producing blog articles for the UK’s Daily Telegraph. For Israel related topics, search under Fiction.

      Reply
  • Before I start I am not a fan of the Israelis so don’t start with the “he’s only spouting Israeli propaganda”.By deploying these interceptor batteries they are only doing what any government is supposed to do. Protect its people.
    On the other hand it suits Hamas to have pictures of dead women and children. Its great propaganda. They can turn to the wider Arab/Islamic world and say look they are killing our women and children.
    If they cared anything about their civilians there was/is several things that they could/can do. Firstly they could build shelters. And before you start on about concrete etc, you don’t need it as proven by both sides on the Western Front in the First World War and by the North Vietnamese Army in the Vietnam war. Who by the way were capable of building hospitals and command centers underground. Secondly they could/can evacuate the city or parts of it that they were going to fire their missiles from. And thirdly they could/can set up their missile firing points in the farmland around the city. Contrary to popular belief Gaza City does not cover the entire Gaza Strip. There is large tracts of populated land in the strip.
    But Hamas have done none of these. They set up their firing points in areas where there are inevitably going to be civilians killed. Even Sam Keily from Sky News saw them setting up in the grounds of a hospital. Now does that seem like the actions of a Government that cares about its civilians.

    Reply
    • Ah well..that settles it Mick.

      If it was reported on Rupert’s Sky…end of all arguments.

      Sure its as reliable as Israel’s biblical title-deeds, so. Pure gospel.

      Reply
    • Damien you seem very sure that reporter was lying. Do you have proof he was or are you just assuming so because it doesn’t fit your world view?

      Reply
    • I’m questioning your presumption that Murdoch’s minnions are reliable on ANY issue.

      And your superficial and tendentious analysis, generally.

      Reply
    • Actually Murdoch only owns about 10% of Sky shares at present. Or have you forgotten or chosen to ignore that before the hacking inquirey he wanted to buy BSkyB and after sold most of his shares in the company. If Al Jazira had made the same report you would have said that they were lying too.

      Reply
    • Thats what I meant by tendentious and superficial.

      I never stated the reporter lied.

      And now dragging al Jazeera across the screen as further herring while forecasting my response with the same certainty makes me suspect either a low IQ, a pre-set agenda, or both.

      Try this for background to what you so authoritatively pronounce on;

      http://wwww.globalresearch.ca/elite-intrigues-and-military-purges-its-not-about-sex-stupid/5312591

      Nor am I hear as some defender of Hamas. Stow your pre-emptive conclusions if you feel the need to reply. I’m not trying to score points. There are enough gameplayers with innocent peoples’ lives.

      Reply
    • Yes Damien you didn’t “state” the Reporter was lying you just implied it.

      Reply
    • No Mick..I implied that your analysis and comment was superficial and tendentiously partisan.

      And your continued insistance on imposing your skewed spin merely confirms my point.

      Reply
    • Very good Damien. “My skewed spin”. I have only stated fact. You are the one that refuses to accept it.
      Fact: The Israelis have deployed Iron Dome to protect its citizens.
      Fact: Hamas has done nothing to provide shelter or protection for its citizens.
      Fact: The pictures of dead women and children are being used as propaganda by Hamas.
      Fact: The Reporter said he had witnessed the fighter setting up a firing position in the grounds of a hospital.
      Fact: Murdoch doesn’t own Sky and has no editorial oversight.
      You are the one that refuses to accept any criticism of the Palestinians. I other hand Would be quite willing to condem the Israelis and the Palestinians and anyone else involved.

      Reply
    • OK, Mick

      Fact 1. The Iron Dome is protecting Israelis from the puny response of an ethnically cleansed Palestinian residue incarcerated in the most densly populated and largest concentration camp in the region, designed to ensure the apartheid state built on their lands after the terrorism of Irgun and the Stern Gang had established their ever-expanding beach-head.

      Fact 2. Its Israel, not Hamas(which Israel was instrumental in setting up as a counter-force to the secular PLO)that continually bombs and assassinates its fish-in-a-barrel captives.

      Fact 3. The propaganda power of Hamas is a joke considered beside the machinery of hasbara run globally by Tel Aviv.

      Fact 4. The detail of one reporter and one report is that. A detail in a large and complex set of problems.

      Fact 5. The pattern and policy of Sky and its corporate owners has not altered, and will not, because of fresh ownership or management.

      Fact 6. I have both Jewish and Palestinian friends, with whom I often differ.

      Fact 7. You have drawn implications from my comments from your imagination.

      Reply
    • Do I have drawn imaginary implications from your statements!!
      So your reply to the point I made about what the Reporter saw was and I quote “If it was reported on Ruperts Sky end of all arguments. Sure its as reliable as Israelis biblical title deeds so put gospel”.
      Ergo the Reporter was either mistaken or lying. But either way not to be trusted.

      Reply
    • Mick, I find this: “Fact: The pictures of dead women and children are being used as propaganda by Hamas.” to be offensive in the extreme. Maybe they are using them, but the main source where I’ve seen them is on the web, published by reputable news agencies … some of whom just happened to have been targeted by the IDF over the past few days.

      Intentionally or otherwise, there’s a tacit denigration of the suffering of Gazan civilians wrapped up in that line, it’s really not a good look.

      Speaking of propaganda, you’ll have to forgive my scepticism of claims that rockets were fired from civilian installations until absolute proof is provided. Personally, I take a shovel-load of salt with any Sky News report at the best of times, call me a tin-foil hat wearer if you like. But Israel has priors on this point, they claimed that UNRWA facilities were made available to militants during Cast Lead so as to justify dropping white phosphorous on a school where refugees were gathered, which claim turned out to be verifiably, and admittedly false:

      http://unrwa.org/etemplate.php?id=1477

      Reply
    • Hamas are evil. They murdered my brother and I had to flee to Ireland.

      Reply
    • Voodoo as offensive as it is they are using their own people for both propaganda and as Human shields. If you care to look at the satellite picture of the Gaza Strip you will notice empty farmland to the north of the city and to the south. If Hamas were worried about Israeli bombardment why haven’t they launched their rockets from these areas. And unless you disbelieve your own eyes re-run some of the video of the rocket launches. You will notice that they are being fired from within the city itself. And if you read my first comment you will notice that not once have I criticised the civilian population but I have criticised Hamas for doing nothing to shelter and protect the people that elected them.

      Reply
    • Here’s how I see it – we know that Hamas don’t care about the civilian population, but that’s no reason for the Israeli armed forces to do the same. Fact of the matter is that firstly the number of launches is grossly overstated by the IDF, which can be shown by cross-checking as against data from other Israeli government agencies:

      http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/dissecting-idf-propaganda-the-numbers-behind-the-rocket-attacks.html

      But, even at that, if 90% of the rockets are to being shot down before reaching the target anyway, there’s no excuse for being reckless with civilian life in the interests of taking out a rocket crew. Simple as that.

      Firing on a hospital would be a good example. Repeatedly targeting global media outlets would be another. Dropping white phosphorous on a school would be yet another … but, again, in that instance turns out that there never was a rocket crew there in the first place.

      Maybe I’m being unfair in picking up on the use of pictures of murdered civilians as propaganda, undoubtedly it’s done …. but at the same time all of these people were killed without any justification, just because something tends to make you form a view on how the conflict is being prosecuted doesn’t make it propaganda.

      That line just seems uncomfortably close to the “Palestinians play-acting for the cameras” slur that I’ve seen repeatedly from certain quarters in recent days. I honestly don’t know how those people can sleep at night.

      Reply
    • Mick, get a bleedin grip.

      I’m recommending you take anything from the MSM with a large dollop of salt. Now you go ahead and swallow their pap unchewed if it suits you. And I still think you are focused on that ‘politics of the last atrocity’ simplification that enables the situation to deteriorate to suit the ambitions of the protagonists. That is precisely why Israel supported the nascent Hamas.

      I suggest you do a little more reading on the history of the development of Israel and its sponsors.

      Reply
    • Again Voodoo I am not disagreeing with you the response from the IDF was overkill. And as I have previously said I have no problem criticising the Israelis. But what my initial comment was about was that what either goverment were doing to protect their civilians. But it got side tracked by Damiens little rant.

      Reply
    • I’ll leave it to the readers to compare my comment on your simplistics, suggesting a little healthy scepticism, and call which is the ‘rant’.

      Reply
    • Judging by your juvenile reaction to my comment I’d say I was paying attention to this issue before you knew Israel existed.

      Reply
    • I am not the one losing my temper Damian. What does that tell you.

      Reply
    • What that tells me, Mick, is that you probably are..and that you seem more interested in polemical ego-tripping than the plight of either the Israeli or Palestinians labouring under this extended insanity of cyclic mayhem.

      Shalom.

      Reply
    • Quite to the contrary Damien. All I have done was counter each of your arguments. But you on the other hand have become increasingly hysterical in your responses. So far you have either called me or implied that I was Juvenile,Egotistical,Gullible and Stupid. Not once have made any personal attacks on you. Who would you say is the more rational? You really don’t like anyone disagreeing with you do you. And If they do they must be one or all of the above.

      Reply
    • Mick, you started by imputing a factually wrong accusation of lying (in relation to a Sky report)to my comment.
      I cautioned a little scepticism. You took umbrage and persist now in attempting to divert from the issue at hand.
      I’ve tried to correct your misreading several times, but you seem bent on trying to deflect from the thread of Israel’s historical criminality and the creation of a smoke screen of ad hominem argumentation.
      I think maybe you should go back to your playstation.Your flood of disingenious accusations and tendentious imputations grows decidedly tiresome. It will take a better troll that you to either make me lose any ‘temper’, or wax ‘hysterical’.

      I’m quite happy to leave it to the readers(if there are any remaining who are the slightest bit bothered)to revisit the still extant evidence of both our comments.
      Shalom.

      Reply
    • Firstly Damien thank you. You made me smile. That you think that I am a teenager lightens ones heart. Nobody has thought of me young for many years. Now lets get back to the point. The piece is all about the Iron Dome missile batteries. And how the Israelis were using it to protect their people. Now I made comment that it was every governments duty to protect its people and that Hamas being the governing body in Gaza was/is failing to do so. Now when I pointed out that Reporter for Sky News had observed Hamas fighters setting a rocket launcher in Hospital grounds,you immediately went on the defensive rubbishing the report. I asked you if you had any proof to back up said rubbishing to which you began implying that Rupert Murdoch was controlling the editorial content of Sky News. To which I pointed out that Rupert Murdoch had very few shares left in BSkyB. At this point your insults began. Low IQ etc. As I have already said you don’t like anyone that doesn’t comply with your own personal views. If you find that you can’t debate something in a civil manner you really shouldn’t debate at all.

      Reply
    • Wonderful..glad to have lightened your load.

      Now go read a little history and stop taking the tabloid feed.

      Shalom.

      Reply
    • Mohammad Fahad

      You didn’t HAVE to flee to Ireland. You should have stayed in your own country and sorted out your mess.

      How many Irish people Catholic or Protestant have ‘fled’ to Palestine because a relative was killed?

      More ‘asylum/refugee’ nonsense.

      Australia has announced an open door border policy – they have lost control of an island border! Anyone who arrives get free housing and food for years.

      Australia will finished like England, in 20 years thanks to a Labour government.

      Reply
    • Yeah, Randy, how are the Aborigines ever going to get their country back from those Poms and criiminal Irish convicts dumped on their shores.

      Reply
    • Damien Flinter

      Reverse colonisation in the 21st century is called Frankfurt School Cultural Marxism. Except for Israel which has opted for the 18-19 century retro style colonisation of Palestine.

      Once you get to the list of 11 ‘recommendations’ the 1930’s Frankfurt school suggested, ask yourself how many are now in force today:

      1. The creation of racism offences.
      2. Continual change to create confusion
      3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
      4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority
      5. Huge immigration to destroy identity.
      6. The promotion of excessive drinking
      7. Emptying of churches
      8. An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime
      9. Dependency on the state or state benefits
      10. Control and dumbing down of media
      11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family

      http://the-tap.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/11-recommendations-of-frankfurt-school.html

      Reply
    • Frankfurt School Cultural Marxism = Divide and Rule = multi-culturalism.

      Political correctness involves the translation of Marxism from economic terms into cultural terms.
      http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Younkins/Political_Correctness_Threatens_Free_Society.shtml

      Each to their own land in their homeland. Now thats diversity!

      Reply
    • Damian

      I just had a look through your very political facebook.

      You must be a Useful Idiot for every cause going! LOL!!

      Watch the full interview and lecture by Yuri Bezmenov. Here is a 5 minutes piece:

      Bezmenov on demoralization in America and about useful idiots
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo

      Reply
    • Call it what you want, Randy, I aint buying it.

      You compound and confuse too many issues. I’ve worked all over the planet, carry an Irish passport, but consider myself a terrestrian. It is called the human race. Join it or lose it.

      You are locked in 19th century pre-modern genetic delusions about racial purity. Read a little science and think a little harder. The final step in human evolution is in our own hands. It takes a little effort, but most of the best things do.
      Primitive tribalism is a comfort blanket to be shed on the way to adult independence of thought. Geography does not define it. Nationalisms are just mega tribalisms based on false understanding of the complexity of our common human history and characteristics behind superficial differences in pigmentation and physiognomy.

      Think again. You have the intelligence, don’t waste it on ideological cul-de-sacs..

      Reply
    • @Randy

      Idiot maybe, useful hardly.
      Its called not being monocular. There are many issues.
      In a different post, below, you characterise the hasbara mentality as monlinear. Much of your racial theory meshes perfectly with Zionism and its balkanisation apartheid theorising.

      First remove your own mote. Your thinking is confused and unintegrated. A litle reflection is required.

      Reply
    • Damien Flinter

      You seem to think culture = race. What gave you that idea; do you worship Magnus Hirschfeld? Is religion a ‘race’ too?

      ” … cul-de-sacs.” Isn’t that Marxism?

      On the contrary, you seem to have bought the whole shop!

      Its a pity Useful Idiots never realise what happens to them.

      Reply
    • @Randy

      Well aware of the difference. I did live in South Africa for couple of years during apartheid. Your culture still smacks of a 19th century Petri dish.

      cul-de-sac is French. Marx, I believe was an London-based German. I prefer Groucho myself. He does a better line in bullshit than even your hillarious self.

      I would have thought a useless genius like yourself would know that much.
      Picking up Mick’s personalising decoy baton by any chance?

      Reply
  • Glorifying genocide is never nice.

    Reply
  • MrKnow 22/11/12 #

    The iron dome has worked against the missiles from Gaza, although they are standard missiles with no control unlike higher tech missiles that can be controlled remotely. The system itself isn’t totally fool proof. There are missiles that disintegrate mid flight and release hundreds of tiny explosive rounds to blow up a large area, the iron dome would not be effective against these missiles. Israel are just lucky that hamas can’t get there hands on these.

    Reply
    • Indeed, the Patriot strikes against SCUDs made good TV but they didn’t do much help as the exploded SCUD still rained down its debris.
      It needs to hit the missile before it gets over populated areas which I presume this tries to do…

      Reply
    • Exactly MrKnow,

      That’s why Israel are always trying to get big brother to attack Iran, they would stand no chance if Iran launched all their missiles pointed at them:
      http://www.presstv.ir/detail/212486.html

      But not to worry because Israel can send their Airforce (donated largely by the US) over and destroy all their missile silos right???
      Assuming of course they can fly past Iraq first without incident.

      Reply
  • where’s the Jew lover guy? Kevin Nazi? the guy who made false allegations against the journals staff for false reporting (Israeli style) and was caught out like fool and wouldnt apologize. is he on holidays in Jerusalem or something? I miss his clown comments.

    Reply
  • Uneven war in which one side funded by bucket loads do American dollars slaughters a largely defenceless people, which the world looks on. Many crimes against humanity have been carried out here by Israel (backed by the USA) Will they ever be brought to justice ?????

    Reply
    • The only crimes against humanity were by Hamas, which deliberately fired on Israeli civilians and, like the sniveling little cowards they are, hid amongst women and children while firing their rockets.

      Reply
    • Sean, Gaza is an Israeli imposed crime against humanity. And Israel is constantly provoking these criminal reactions to justify its own expansionary criminality. Aided and abetted by Britain, France and other European oil interests and by the US.
      And the expansionary crimes continue on the West Bank as our governments stay silent.
      Israel is a nuclear outlaw state(it refuses ALL monitoring of its facilities and arsenal) smearing all and sundry as it struts as some moral paragon. That is not the way the world works. Barak and Netanyu are dangerous, to more than just the unfortunate Palestinians on whose homeland they have imposed.

      Reply
    • Yet another 2 day old twitter account with no followers and a protected status is posting IDF propoganda.

      Ladies and Gentlemen, gaze in awe at the IDF propoganda machine in action. While we dispute the rights and wrongs of Palestinian and Israeli leadership they will divert your gaze away from the ongoing ethnic cleansing and settling of Palestine – always blaming the poor warlike stupid Arabs for their own predicament.

      Some recent visitors from the Israeli propaganda labs have been – Commonsense, Eva, Val, Sean.
      They will no doubt get smarter as and come up with more Irish Sounding names, they may even post under the Guise of arabs exiled in Ireland.

      A quick guide to how they operate: Hasbara attributes
      -Supreme point of view
      -The Hasbara troll knows best
      -Condescending & Patronising
      -Socialist (Smart and ‘caring’)
      -Do not have to be Jewish but Pro-Israel
      -Internet experts
      -Narcissistic
      -Provocative
      -Dis-ruptive
      -Like to ask the questions, not answer questions
      -Control freaks
      -Inflamed by anyone being critical of Israel
      -’Moral’ Guardians
      -Classic insults: Anti-semite, Neo- Nazi, White Supremacist, Holocaust denier
      -Adept with social networks well trained on IT

      Troll techniques
      -Turn up randomly asking question about Israel, trying to engage/educate.
      -Guilt by association, they point to some source your are linked to as being anti-semitic or neo-nazi.
      -Opportunity to redeem – the offer chance to recant from your naive ways.
      -Smears and insults – if the top 3 fail then it’s just character assassination.
      -Name bombing – using seo in blackhat ways to denounce and smear people. ie website with 37 mentions of -someones name will prob get a Page one on Google.
      -Hasbara trolls generally follow the rules of social networks, because they want to continue to influence people and subvert open and free debate.

      Reply
    • Ben, that’s a fair point, there have been some seriously strange posting patterns going on across these threads – I’m half tempted to run an analysis on them if I find the time. I think the Israel lobby’s attempts to manipulate journalists and social media in Ireland over the past week is an interesting story in itself.

      Reply
    • Ben Barnes

      Hasbara don’t even bother to read the articles or comment on them; straight on the attack of other posters.

      It doesn’t take a Nobel prize to know that the world enjoys a free media, while their attempts to hi-jack it will backfire against them, as more realise they’ve been subject to Israeli government propaganda.

      Reply
    • Careful all you Israel-defenders, the troll police are on the watch, Officer Barnes on patrol tonight. You invade this space at your peril. Intruding awkward facts and rational analysis into a sealed coccoon inhabited by Israelophobes sprinkled with a couple of genuine anti-Semites can get you booked for being condescending or patronising, narcissistic or provocative, or, worst of all, ‘disruptive’. It’s a predictable human response to the pain known as cognitive dissonance — the sensation caused when a perception contradicts abstract dogmas and sloganistic concepts that have been so effectively absorbed by the brain as to have become integrated into the personality.
      The victims here have been exposed to constant repetition of the slogans ‘apartheid’, ‘ethnic cleansing’, ‘genocide’ and ‘collective punishment’, all of them substitutes for genuine thought derived from other and older conflicts and adapted to the propaganda needs of the anti-Israel struggle. Such a condition causes the victim to shut out all stimuli that clash with the integrated doctrine.
      For example, the dogma says that Hamas harbours no evil intentions towards Israelis beyond trying to lift a terrible ‘siege’. But provide a link to one of many videos showing Hamas leaders boasting of the mission to bring all of ‘Palestine from the river to the sea’ under Islamic control or of the historic destiny of Muslims to kill the Jews, and the response is to ignore it entirely (no one has yet tried to suggest either that the words have been mistranslated from Arabic or that the video was filmed using Israeli actors).
      Similarly, for those here who can only judge a conflict in terms of the numbers of people killed on both sides and who condemn only Israel for the sad Gaza civilian casualties, putting up a video showing Hamas leader Fathi Hamad boasting at a rally “For us death has become an industry… That is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly and the mujahideen” might be expected to give at least a pause for thought and maybe a wish to investigate and find out more. Instead it is shut out of the discussion, the inconvenient poster with the inconvenient fact is labelled a ‘hasbara troll’ or otherwise greeted with adolescent abuse.
      Now watch the red thumbs prove me right!

      Reply
    • Mel, my friend, I hate to be a pedant, there’s are these things called paragraphs….

      Reply
    • Another Hasbara diagnostic is that they focus on one subject only.

      Although “Mel McDermott” branches out into fomenting anti-Muslim hatred on many of his posts rather than only attempting to defend the indefensible, Israels actions. Yet no comments on Indian abortions, the economy, on any subject matter of interest to a genuine Irish person.

      To his credit, he is far less aggressive than many Hasbara and does provide useful information rather than simply calling everyone on the thread various derogatory names.

      “Mel”, if you’re disappointed about being outed, take it up with Gilad Atzmon:

      http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/jonathon-blakeley-a-guide-to-hasbara-trolls.html

      Reply
    • Hasbara/GiYUS/Sayanim tend to gang-up (they’re in communication with eachother) on an individual poster to get their comments removed. Thereby, suppressing Free Speech.

      The USA’s First Amendment to the constitution guarantees Free Speech.

      Does it?

      Here is how Israel is removing rights from Americans:

      California State Assembly passes law defining criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism

      United States (AFP) — US President George W. Bush said he had signed into law a bill requiring the State Department to monitor global anti-Semitism and rate countries annually on their treatment of Jews.

      California Passes Resolution Equating Criticism of Israel With Anti-Semitism
      http://antiwar.com/blog/2012/08/30/california-passes-resolution-equating-criticism-of-israel-with-anti-semitism/

      Israel wants to be known as ‘The Jewish State’ which would mean criticism of Israels domestic or foreign policy will have you jailed (or Gulag-ed).

      Reply
    • Grateful for that, Randy! I’m miffed that my name isn’t in there already — I suspect there may be some kind of racial bias against members of the MacDermott clan or people from Roscommon generally — but I’ll be getting my troll membership application in ASAP!

      Reply
    • Subtle as it may seem, there is a sharp distinction between, on the one hand, criticism of Islam and Islamism as a political ideology and of Islamists who seek to establish the supremacy of Islamic rule and Shari’a law, and, on the other, what Randy calls ‘anti-Muslim hatred’. Free speech is bounded by certain limits to what we can say about people, especially with regard to things about which they have no choice such as racial identity, but there can be no boundaries when discussing cultures and ideas.

      Reply
    • Mel McDermott

      Contemporary Islam is a totalitarian societal system with its own law and religion. On that we agree, but Judaism is equally as backward. Judaism and Islam have more in common that either have to Christianity. Thats why nations founded upon Christianity are successful and progressive but Judeo-Islam has yet to create one.

      Free is unqualified, or it isn’t.

      What is ‘racial’? Is it something you leaned about in national school in Roscommon. When was it invented?

      Reply
    • ‘Mel McDermott’

      You’ve had an hour to google ‘National School’.

      Does ‘Jew’ mean religion or ‘race’ to you?

      Reply
    • “The victims here have been exposed to constant repetition of the slogans ‘apartheid’, ‘ethnic cleansing’, ‘genocide’ and ‘collective punishment’, all of them substitutes for genuine thought derived from other and older conflicts and adapted to the propaganda needs of the anti-Israel struggle.”

      Firstly, it’s abundantly clear that Israel can by no means the victims in this conflict, that’s self evident. Second, most of those so-called “slogans”, are descriptions of war crimes prohibited by international law. Of course, there are mechanisms by which to bring perpetrators to justice, which Israel refuses to engage with, for some reason.

      If Hamas really are such awful war criminals, why not let in the International Criminal Court to try the perpetrators? Perchance, because that would be because Israeli leaders would be vulnerable to prosecution, by the same token?

      It might interest you to note that, on the question of sloganeering, a preliminary count reveals that there have been 26 separate accusations of anti-Semitism across 16 posts on this site since the 14th of November, as opposed to 11 invocations of apartheid. Of those 26, I haven’t found one that has any reasonable basis.

      Reply
    • Oh, in the context of the foregoing, I should make that 27. Well done, Mel.

      Reply
    • Let that Free Speech continue …

      Guidelines ratified by the National Union of Journalists (UK and Ireland).

      http://ethicaljournalisminitiative.org/en/contents/nuj-guidelines-on-race-reporting

      Call a truce, before centuries of free speech are brought to an end
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9696389/Call-a-truce-before-centuries-of-free-speech-are-brought-to-an-end.html#disqus_thread

      Reply
    • Mel … Mel …

      Mel is firing Blanc-s at the moment while his controller give him further destructions.

      Reply
    • Sorry to keep you waiting there Randy — just in from organising the winter feed for the suckler calves, muck to the gills out there, no soakage in the soil after all the rain and the job took a lot longer than expected. Things might not look that busy on a Roscommon farm in November but, believe me, there’s an Armageddon of a lot to be done. Between all that and trying to keep the controller happy, there’s not much time left over for a hasbara troll to relax.

      Thank Jehovah for Saturday — the only bit of a lie-in I get in a busy week. Every other morning she’s on the line from Jerusalem prompt at 7am with her list of instructions and tasks for the day (they’re 2 hours ahead over there but she will make no allowances for that) and can be quite caustic and unappreciative if she feels my work doesn’t meet her standards. A little positive feedback doesn’t seem too much to ask from the Elder Troll. No wonder I get no time to comment on Indian abortions, the economy, wars in the Congo, the Antarctic ice re-freezing, Mick Wallace’s chest hair, the next asteroid heading for Earth, syringes on the Luas — but maybe it’s just as well. Be careful what you wish for, because you mightn’t like me at all if I got going on some of those!

      But as to the answer you’ve been gnawing your fingers waiting for all these hours: Does ‘Jewish’ mean a religion or a race to me? The short answer is neither. The Jewish people were among the first peoples in the world to develop a sense of themselves as something more than a collection of clans, in other words, they evolved a sense of nationality. The Bible is the founding myth, the testimony of this self-consciousness . Of course, the Jewish religion was fundamental to this identity, but it’s less clear whether the same can be said for ‘race’. (The concept of ‘race’ seems to mean less and less now and is of mainly historical interest as the foundation for 19th-century theories to explain unequal development of societies). The Khazar theory has been put forward by some to rubbish the Jewish claim to the ancestral land of Israel, but more recent genetic research has shown that the DNA of modern Jews of North African origin is closer to that of Ashkenazi Jews than to that non-Jewish North Africans, so that may mean that a certain amount of ‘racial’ affinity unites all Jews as well.

      We can’t be too dogmatic about the exact elements that go to make a sense of nationhood, but one thing is sure: its essence is a shared sense of a common history. Modern Jewish nationalism, a.k.a. Zionism, began in central and eastern Europe among a host of other national movements in the Austro-Hungarian and Russian empires, and it grew out of the common experiences of Jewish people living as subjects of these empires. The more Jews found themselves outsiders among these other nationalisms, the stronger their own nationalism grew. Of course, intensity of persecution varied from place to place, and many Jews were slow to adopt the idea of uprooting themselves to move to the ancestral homeland.

      It took the ferocity of the late 19th and early 20th century Russian pogroms to really kick-start the migration, and the refusal of western states to give shelter to Jews fleeing Nazi dehumanisation did the rest. Those arriving spoke 182 different languages, but, if they practised the religion, they had at least some words of a shared language in Hebrew. A final thought from Amos Oz, who remembered from his Ukrainian childhood being yelled at: “Hey Jews, go back to Palestine!”. Now anti-Semites yell: “Hey Jews, get out of Palestine!”

      Reply
  • Bill Clinton’s government called the Palestinians the “Dirt and Dustbowl of the middle east”….Naom Chomsky rightfully noted that Gaza is the “Largest Prison in the world”, Hamas as the aggressors against its own people needs the ghetto scenario to keep the same people oppressed and mantain control over them through fear, Israel needs Hamas in power so they can dominate the region with forces their own population have no say over hence Israelis are ruled by their own government through fear….America needs one country in every region to dominate and they dont care about what type of government or how brutal they are once they mantain stability in them regions….in the middle east all the main players (governments) are winners (in their own eyes and each others)

    Reply
  • A nice plump $200 million target. Get all 5 and they USA is out a $billion.

    Reply
  • Have to say I think Iron Dome is one of the more positive developments to come out of that conflict.

    Reply
  • Terror, terror, terror, terror, terror. Here we go again. Israel is going to “root out Palestinian terror” – which it has been claiming to do, unsuccessfully, for 64 years – while Hamas, the latest in “Palestine’s” morbid militias, announces that Israel has “opened the gates of hell” by murdering its military leader, Ahmed al-Jabari.
    Hezbollah several times announced that Israel had “opened the gates of hell” for attacking Lebanon. Yasser Arafat, who was a super-terrorist, then a super-statesman – after capitulating on the White House lawn – and then became a super-terrorist again when he realised he’d been conned by Camp David; he, too waffled on about the “gates of hell” in 1982.

    And we journos are writing like performing bears, repeating all the clichés we’ve used for the past 40 years. The killing of Mr Jabari was a “targeted attack”, it was a “surgical air strike” – like the Israeli “surgical air strikes” which killed almost 17,000 civilians in Lebanon in 1982, the 1,200 Lebanese, most of them civilians, in 2006, or the 1,300 Palestinians, most of them civilians, in Gaza in 2008-9, or the pregnant woman and the baby who were killed by the “surgical air strikes” in Gaza last week – and the 11 civilians killed in one Gaza house yesterday. At least Hamas, with their Godzilla rockets, don’t claim anything “surgical” about them. They are meant to murder Israelis – any Israelis, man woman or child.

    As, in truth, are the Israeli attacks on Gaza. But don’t say that or you’ll be an anti-Semitic Nazi; almost as evil, wicked, unspeakable, devilish and murderous as the Hamas movement with which – again, please don’t mention this – Israel happily negotiated in the Eighties when they encouraged this bunch of mobsters to take power in Gaza and thus decapitate the exiled super-terrorist Arafat. The new exchange rate in Gaza for Palestinian and Israeli deaths has reached 16:1. It will rise, of course. The exchange rate in 2008-9 was 100:1.

    And we are myth-making too. The last Israeli war in Gaza was such a stunning success – “rooting out terror”, of course – that their supposedly élite units couldn’t even find their own captured soldier Gilad Shalit, eventually produced last year by Mr Jabari in person.

    Mr Jabari was the “No 1 shadowy leader” of Hamas, according to the Associated Press. But how on earth can he be shadowy when we know his date of birth, family details, his years of imprisonment by Israel during which he changed allegiance from Fatah to Hamas? So while I’m on it, those years of Israeli imprisonment didn’t exactly convert Mr Jabari to pacifism, did they? Well, no tears then; he was a man who lived by the sword and died by the sword, a fate which, of course, will not afflict Israel’s warriors of the air as they kill civilians in Gaza.

    Washington supports Israel’s “right to defend itself” then claims a spurious neutrality – as if Israel’s bombs on Gaza didn’t come from the United States as assuredly as the Fajr-5 rockets come from Iran.

    Meanwhile, the pitiful William Hague holds Hamas “principally responsible” for the latest war. But there is no such evidence that this is true. According to The Atlantic Monthly, the Israeli killing of a “mentally unfit” Palestinian who strayed towards the border may have been the start of the latest war. Others suspect the killing of a small Palestinian boy may have been the provocation. But he was shot dead by the Israelis when an armed Palestinian group tried to cross the frontier and was confronted by Israeli tanks. In which case Palestinian gunmen – albeit not Hamas – may have kicked-off the whole shooting-match.

    But is there nothing to stop this nonsense, this garbage war? Hundreds of rockets fall on Israel. True. Thousands of acres of land are stolen from Arabs by Israel –for Jews and Jews only – on the West Bank. There isn’t even enough land left there now for a Palestinian state.

    Delete the last two sentences, please. There are only good guys and bad guys in this outrageous conflict in which the Israelis claim to be the good guys to the applause of Western countries (who then wonder why a lot of Muslims don’t like Westerners very much).

    The problem, oddly, is that Israel’s actions in the West Bank and its siege of Gaza are bringing closer the very event which Israeli trumpets it fears every day: that Israel faces destruction.

    In the battle of rockets – not least Iran’s Fajr-5s and Hezbollah’s drones – a new warpath is being trodden by both sides. It’s no longer about Israeli tanks crossing the Lebanese border or the Gaza border. It’s about rockets and hi-tech drones and computer attacks – or “cyber-terrorism”, of course, if committed by Muslims – and the human dross ripped apart by the wayside will be even less relevant than it has been over the past three days.

    The Arab awakening now takes its own path: its leaders are going to have to follow their public’s mood. So, I suspect, is poor old King Abdullah of Jordan. America’s clowning for “peace” on Israel’s side is no longer worth the candle among Arabs. And if Benjamin Netanyahu believes that the arrival of the first Iranian Fajr rockets necessitates the Israeli big bang on Iran, and then Iran fires back – and perhaps at the Americans, too– and brings in Hezbollah – and Obama gets swallowed up in another Western-Muslim war, what happens then?

    Well, Israel will ask for a ceasefire, as it routinely does in wars against Hezbollah. It will plead yet again for the undying support of the West in its struggle against world evil, Iran included.

    And why not praise the killing of Mr Jabari? Please forget that the Israelis negotiated via the German secret service with Mr Jabari himself, less than 12 months ago. You can’t negotiate with “terrorists”, right? Israel calls this latest bloodbath Operation Pillar of Defence. Pillar of Hypocrisy, more like

    ends

    At least Robert Fisk is not afraid to stand up to the bullshit. I can’t wait for the arguments to come back on this!!

    Reply
    • Very well said. Both sides and their supporters are so righteous in their beliefs that there is no gray areas. Its Good V Evil depending on what side you are on. And that they refuse to accept is one side can be as vicious as the other.

      Reply
    • Good post, Fergal.

      One thing I’ve been pointing out since the start of this thing is that Ha’aerz reported on Friday last that Jabari was in the process of negotiating a “permanent truce”, brokered by the guy who also arranged the Gilad Shalit deal. Not sure of the details, really, but I’ve been posting this story all week and nobody’s pulled me up on it – the original post is paywalled, unfortunately, so this will have to do:

      http://m.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/15/1161891/-Israeli-newspaper-Israel-attacked-Gaza-knowing-truce-was-in-the-works

      Would seem to suggest that Israel’s interests in self defence would have been better served in negotiating – apparently he’d succeeded in reducing the number of rocket attacks to 6, 1, and 4 on the 12th, 13th and 14th respectively, the latter being the date of his assassination.

      Reply
    • Spot on. Its a mutually reinforcing, symbiotic war-psychology, each side harvesting the civilian innocents and demonising the necessary enemy as it builds its parasitic power-towers.

      And at the back of it all the arms industry and financiers playing both sides against the helpless middle.
      Hell, it built the Rotschild banking empire, from the feudal wars of European royals, through Waterloo and the ongoing Great Game punctuated by Great Wars it has funded and financed through war loans the exterminations and destruction that approaches its nuclear cresendo with every passing skirmish, from here to the mushroom farm.
      We’ve been playing Russian roulette for so long now we forget the phukking warheads are poised on computerised hair-triggger. Hard to see it NOT happening.

      Reply
    • Apparently none of the responders to the above contribution from Fergal Doyle are aware that the piece was written by Robert Fisk and appeared in the Irish Independent almost a week ago… Copyright issues…?

      Reply
    • Read it again Mel! I felt Fisk’s article but to bed the laughable views posted! I copied the article rather than a link. So what! I referenced Robert Fisk.

      Reply
  • Damien,

    Useful Idiot isn’t meant to be taken as an insult, more a directive that you may be believing sanctimoniously in something that may not be entirely genuine.

    Some people are Useful Idiots for Israel (our elder generation usually) and some could be Useful Idiots for Palestine.

    Hope I’m neither, just an objective observer that likes his freedoms.

    If you remember, this girl could be described a Useful Idiot:

    ” … unassuming and idealistic communist named Nan Perry (Claire Bloom)”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spy_Who_Came_in_from_the_Cold_%28film%29

    Reply
  • Kieran mac Court- you are on the ball! A1 spot on! Fair dues to you- you show a deep understanding of the bigger issue in that region and it is not Israel! How could a tiny sliver of land that has no oil but is an oasis in the desert cause such instability if that region was not already a disaster to begin with. Let’s face it if one of us had to choose to live in any of those Middel East countries….Israel would be the first and only choice…especially if you are female.

    Reply
  • Me-Wow-ee!

    Its just like ramzpaul said.

    If you say ‘way-cyst’ they will come!

    Damien Flinter and ‘Des McDermott’ come a running!

    Like ‘sit’, ‘paw’ to a dog, you get an immediate and the expected reaction!!

    Reply
  • The prevalence of ancient genes in Ireland suggests that the Irish have largely maintained their pre-Neolithic genetic heritage. There has been little genetic influence from outside the country since the first people came to Ireland almost 9,000 years ago.

    http://www.insideireland.com/sample19.htm

    Would you like to change this? Why? Why do that? Whats the plan? How do you define change and progress?

    Reply
  • Nice country to live in NOT!

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  • Another Hasbara diagnostic is that they focus on one subject only.

    Although “Mel McDermott” branches out into fomenting anti-Muslim hatred on many of his posts rather than only attempting to defend the indefensible, Israels actions. Yet no comments on Indian abortions, the economy, on any subject matter of interest to a genuine Irish person.

    To his credit, he is far less aggressive than many Hasbara and does provide useful information rather than simply calling everyone on the thread various derogatory names.

    Reply
  • Reginalds Tower (its a building in Waterford, which is a small city in Ireland, BTW):

    If Israel belongs to the white man, when should I arrive to claim my ancestral homeland, your house, while you go back to the Khazar Caucasian mountains?

    Israeli Interior Minister: “This Country Belongs to Us – The White Man!”
    http://my.firedoglake.com/edwardteller/2012/06/03/israeli-interior-minister-this-country-belongs-to-us-the-white-man/

    Reply

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