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Dublin: 11 °C Thursday 20 June, 2013

‘It’s quite disturbing how negative the views about Germany are’ – Lucinda Creighton

Minister of State for European Affairs, Lucinda Creighton also said that Ireland’s neutrality was quite ‘narcissistic’.

Minister of State for European Affairs, Lucinda Creighton (file photo)
Minister of State for European Affairs, Lucinda Creighton (file photo)
Image: Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland

A NEW REPORT, produced to coincide with Ireland’s current presidency of the EU and the country’s 40th year of membership, has been released today.

Containing interviews with Lucinda Creighton, Peter Sutherland, Pat Cox and Micheál Martin, the report – Forty Years A-Growing – An Overview of Irish-EU Relations – by Notre Europe – Jacques Delors Institute, was produced with the aim of grasping the “specificity and subtleties of the Irish debate on Europe, both historically and in its most recent developments.”

In her interview, the Minister of State for European Affairs, Lucinda Creighton, believes that Ireland’s neutral stance is ‘narcissistic’ and is used by Ireland to “tell everyone who wonderful we are”.

EU membership and the Irish people

Believing that Ireland had an “almost unbridled” enthusiasm for Europe in the ’70s and ’80s, Creighton said that she wasn’t sure if “it was a very well thought out enthusiasm”:

We were a very poor country, we wanted to be anything but the United Kingdom, and we wanted to be part of that project which was moving forward.

This changed, somewhat, in the ’90s and the ’00s, as the Irish became “much more critical and questioning”.

Although we vote for it, the European Parliament is completely remote from citizens. It is not a scant knowledge of how the institutions work: there is no knowledge of how they work – and I don’t mean that in a condescending or negative way about the public…

Ireland’s European concerns are not unique, according to Creighton. The issue, she said, was how countries handled European affairs. “When we have a success… the national government tries to take all the credit for it,” she said. “But when things go wrong, we blame Europe.”

Responding to the likelihood that Ireland would now become a net contributor to the EU budget, the minister said that that the country was “resigned to that,” adding: “After forty years of membership, that is fair enough”.

Europe’s power issues

While Creighton agrees that there are Irish worries over the balance of power in Europe, she believes that this is no longer driven by population numbers but is instead between the creditors and the debtors.

On the topic of Ireland’s perceived public resentment of Germany, she finds it “quite disturbing how negative the views about Germany are”.

Creighton finds the belief by bailout countries that they are “being harangued and beaten up by Germany” to be really worrying, especially as this is the “perception propagated by our media on a daily basis”.

Is the ‘them and us’ attitude hurting Europe?

“Very much so,” said Creighton. Describing the lack of understanding between the bailout countries and the rest, she encounters the view time and again that “the programme countries wouldn’t be in the mess they’re in, had they played by the rules and not been so spendthrift.”

While she believes that this view may be applicable to Greece, it does not apply to Ireland. “We ran a budget surplus before the crisis,” she said.

Admitting that her sometimes defence of Germany results in her being labelled as ‘Little Missy Europhile’, Creighton believes that a greater level of understanding – and empathy – is required from both sides.

From Ireland’s point of view, Germany needs to understand that “by paying unsecured senior bondholders, which the Irish government had no obligation to do, we protected German banks.”

Why a blanket bondholder guarantee?

“Well, I wasn’t part of that government…,” Creighton responded, saying that she would “certainly disagree” with the decision that was taken.

While believing that the banks of “systematic importance” should have been saved – Allied Irish Bank and Bank of Ireland – Creighton is resigned to the fact that the wrong decision was made.

Unfortunately now that is all history for us: it has happened and we need to move on.

Documenting how private banking debt turned into sovereign debt, Creighton believes that Ireland cannot default.

They [the Irish people] would like some degree of leniency from the European institutions; they would like the Troika to come forward with a report on the promissory notes’ restructuring; they would like to see a hand of friendship from our European partners. But no one expects the debt to be written-off completely.

On the subject of moral hazard, Creighton said she is ‘Germanic’ in some of her outlook.

“I believe in good spending; I believe in fiscal prudence; and I think that moral hazard is a very important question,” she said. “As a German taxpayer I would be asking: ‘do we really want to hand over our credit card to the Greek government?’”

Ireland’s corporation tax rate

While happy with a greater coordination of tax policy at European level, ceding control of Ireland’s tax rates would, in Creighton’s opinion, be a step too far.

Describing the corporation tax rate as transparent and applying to all companies whether big or small, she said that it is applied consistently, “without bias or favouritism”.

It [the corporation tax rate] is not the only element of our industrial policy, but it is a crucial part of it.

Irish neutrality

“We have developed this perception of ourselves that to be neutral and to not engage in any sort of common defence is a badge of honour,” Creighton said.

Believing that Ireland, as a country, has never really considered what would happen if it was to be attacked, she says that our position on neutrality is quite narcissistic.

We do not have to worry about its consequences, and we can parade it around the world, go to the United Nations and tell everyone how wonderful we are.

In favour of a “European common defence”, Creighton thinks that this could gain political traction in the short term.

Ireland’s EU presidency

“It is sometimes easier to lead a successful Presidency as a small Member State than if you are a big Member State, because others are not so suspicious of your motivations,” Creighton said.

“I hope that because we have been so successful in implementing our programme for the past eighteen months, there will also be good will towards Ireland. That could also put us in a key position to really make some progress.”

In-full: The interview with Lucinda Creighton >

Read: ‘Respectable case to be made for debt write-off’ – Pat Cox

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Comments (128 Comments)

  • At the risk of stating the obvious…… The bank debt is private debt and the Irish citizens shouldn’t be responsible for either causing it or repaying it.

    There is no such thing as a bank of systemic importance. AIB have been bailed out 3 times by the taxpayer over the last 30 years, this is crazy.

    Greece is part of the EU, Lucinda displays the same attitude to Greece that Germany displays towards Ireland, it’s sickening.

    Lucinda gets paid over €135k a year and an additional €135k a year in expenses and €65k for an assistant
    who worked as a children’s tv presenter before he got the job and happens to be a Fine Gael member.

    All aboard the gravy train!

    Reply
  • I’d say she’d be quite disturbed if she realized how negative the views of her are.

    Reply
  • the Irish people have no problems with Germany we just have a problem with German politicians seeing our budget\financial plans before our government shows them to our own elected TD’s we are slowly become a puppet state

    Reply
    • I beg to differ. Many of the commenters here have a big problem with Germans, probably arising from the fact that they’ve never been to Germany or have bothered to get to know any Germans. If a German website had comments about the Irish like this site has about Germans, the self-same commenters would be baying for blood…. Don’t like LC much, though..

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    • i think their anger is misplaced i understand your point Nickolas .

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    • Ignore them Nikolas. As you say, most have never gone near the country. I used to visit Germany a few times a year the last decade and it served as a nice relief valve from the shite that was happening in Ireland at the time. I couldn’t believe how much better the real standard of living was when you took into account the low costs.

      Prudence and realism are rarely exhibited here.

      Reply
    • I don’t see how a visit to Germany would change anything. I have been to Germany on many occasions and still feel the same about the posturing we are seeing today. Germany is so righteous about the fiscal rules and responsibilities and yet it was the first country (together with France) to break the newly minted deficit rule in early 00′s when it suited Germany. It never complied with the 60% debt to GDP level and the only reason their debt stands at a ‘mere’ 80% of GDP today is that the German state has not had to recapitalize the banks because the banks are allowed to pretend 2006 asset prices still apply.

      Reply
    • very true comment Nikolas, – totally agree.
      Some Irish commenters are never happy unless they are scapegoating someone. It comes from our mentality of being colonised for centuries, by the Brits. Always someone elses fault !

      Reply
    • I hate mushrooms. Have I ever tried one? Of course not, I wouldn’t try one because I hate them. But if I’ve never tried one how do I know I hate them? Um, er…. [ insert emotive rabble-rousing slogan to distract from question ]. Pretty much the same logic as what’s above.

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    • Zoe, you are wrong. Nobody is blaming Germany for the state of the Irish finances, but the people rightfully object to the unfair outcome (socialization of private debts) imposed largely by German-led bloc of countries. Contrary, Germans scapegoated the Irish in a rather disgusting piece of propaganda that related to the Dublin based Depfa bank. The narrative from Germany was that Depfa were a bunch of cowboys that used the wild west IFSC to screw up their loan book and cause difficulties for the German based parent bank Hypo Realestate which then needed state money. Nothing could be further from the truth. Depfa were lending to governments and municipalities and could not have had a more solid loan book with nothing short of guaranteed repayments. Their problem was that they were borrowing short and lending long and when the Lehman credit squeeze hit, they could not roll over the debt. But this was not down to some IFSC specific phenomenon, borrowing short and lending long was a business model worldwide. In fact Depfa was one of the very few banks with a genuine liquidity issue (rather than insolvency that haunts most banks and governments even today). The Depfa parent bank on the other hand, Hypo Realestate, did not require state bailout because of Dublin based Depfa but because of their bad commercial property investments made under the nose of German regulators.

      Reply
    • I agree with your point Dom to but very few Germany bashers would understand the nuanced political and economical circumstances you describe. We were used to prop up the balance sheets for a lot of german institutions and pension funds. We were bullied into covering our banking debts although I don’t think they intended such a drastic guarantee to be enacted.

      On the other hand, I can see strong arguments for socialising this “private” debt. The banks were used as state institution to drive growth for a decade. The government gave them free reign to lend and inflate the economy. The average man on the street was delighted to be able to leverage their inflated salaries to buy cars, tvs, holidays and foreign apartments. The flow of money eventually ended up in the hands of every citizen. These debts should be paid off.

      Reply
    • @ The Mule – low cost of living means a higher quality of life, yes. That’s exactly what should be happening in Ireland; lowering the cost of living. Do that and companies will be able to hire, people will not need salaries that look ridiculous compared to EU norms, etc. but I reckon Germany’s heading into bad times; certain things are still cheaper, but many things are creeping up to Irish levels; especially property. There’s a current drive to get people buying rather than renting. They want the national figure of 47% households as owner-occupiers up to 57% before 2018. This will mainly focus on urban areas, and the result is that property prices have at least doubled in the last 5 years, and people are getting priced out of the market. Just shows that people are people and make the same mistakes everywhere. Hatred of other nationalities or other people’s is irrational in the face of universal incompetence.

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    • The Mule 04/02/13 #

      I suppose no country is immune to economic bubbles but I believe the German people would put up stiff resistance given their past. There is a lot of foreign cash swishing around looking for a safe haven. German bunds are offering rock bottom rates so it might follow that these investors are looking at German property. I’ve heard there is a bit of cultural war going on in Berlin with locals fighting back against rising costs and gentrification.

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    • The Mule, it’s not so black & white. Germany benefited greatly from the Euro perhaps more than any other country in the Eurozone. The Euro was discounted compared to where the Deutschmark would have been and this enabled Germany to restore competitiveness. This is in contrast to countries in trouble today (PIIGS) who lost competitiveness on the back of a currency overvalued for their circumstances. The ECB rate policy as well was designed solely to match the economic cycle of Germany and few similar countries. When the Irish economy was overheating the Frankfurt based ECB was lowering the interest rate. At the same time, the Frankfurt based ECB failed in its mandate to monitor capital flows and enabled huge lending imbalances to build up between the core and the periphery. So if we are talking about the Irish banks being used as a growth engine, then we should also talk about how this non-optimum common currency was used to the benefit of core countries. If we have to pay our debts, where is their responsibility in this equation and what do they need to pay?

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    • Yep, it was a disaster from day one. We joined the euro and all we got was rampant inflation, debt and a loss of competitiveness. This really should have been recognised from the start or at least by 2004 when we could do something about it. We got thought a lesson. We should have taken down the whole shebang in 2010. Cut our expenditure to 2002 levels and we’d be borrowing on the open markets by now and have proper growth. It is sad.

      The euro powers will say that we made our own decisions and must suffer the consequences.

      Reply
    • Zimbabwe has low cost of living to what avail? It is not about cost of living, it is about purchasing power and here I am afraid Germany does not do spectacularly well. Widely referred UBS prices and earnings report scores Dublin neither here nor there compared with Berlin, with Dublin having higher purchasing power based on net hourly wages, lower based on gross hourly wages and equal based on net annual wages. So it is really a myth that Germany has better quality of life based on having better purchasing power.

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    • I have absolutely no argument with the people of Germany, I fully believe if they were in our shoes, they would insist on a write-down, not a “Deal”. The trouble is, the vast majority of them are unaware of the fact that the Irish Government were “Forced” ( which I believe to be true ) to bail-out failed banks in Ireland, in order to protect German banks from collapse, due to the Euro crisis. They are unaware that the vast majority of the loans on the books of these banks were made to multi-millionaire developers and investors Not the average Irish family. They are unaware that the taxpayers in this Country are being forced to pay unsecured bond-holders or that these unsecured bon-holders are being paid in FULL, even if the present owner of said bonds, purchased them for half the original value. They are unaware that, this is not the debt of the Irish People, but the debt of Large investors and Developers, and the banking system which allowed these people go on and borrow from said banks in order to buy shares in it.
      I suggest if any of you know people in Germany or speak German, then maybe you should take a visit to some of their social network sites and start informing them,, you might just be surprised to see, a lot of them would agree with us.

      Reply
    • einverstanden, aber was heisst LC?

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    • Lola 04/02/13 #

      Esther, from what I hear the more politically aware actually know some of this – though certainly not all. Understandably, they have their own worries as the German taxpayer often feels like they’re bailing out half of Europe while there’s no money to fix a school’s leaky roof or maintain a 300 year old library. Tell them their state actually profits from the current situation and they shake their heads in disbelief. If there is profit being made, the middle class doesn’t see any of it. Those below … nil.
      What surprises me though is the amount of goodwill and empathy towards Ireland even among the less informed. General consensus seems to be that either some bad decisions were made (by greedy banks and daft politicians) or that the Irish people were simply screwed over (just as they feel screwed over by Europe more often than not).
      An elder gentleman put it like this: “They’re trying, you know? Your people. Looking after themselves and getting through the mess. They’re not sitting on their bums waiting for someone to fix it for them. And for that they get kicked when they’re down. Damn shame.”
      I didn’t have the heart to tell him about all the anti-Germany resentment in Irish media.

      Reply
    • Nikolas
      You are suggesting that much of the hate spewing on this site comes from the same ignorant philosophy and we should relabel it as the “Fungi Warriors” or FW for short.
      I’m rather pleased with that idea!

      Reply
    • German Monetary Hegemony.

      Reply
    • Die Politikerin.

      Reply
  • Oh lord get Vincent Brown quick!

    Reply
  • Maybe if our politicians were a little more open and honest about our relationship with the EU and the various institutions involved, we wouldn’t have the situation where “there is no knowledge of how they work”.. As regards our “neutrality”, surely that went out the window when we opened up Shannon to the U.S. military?

    Reply
  • Lucinda displaying her own version of Stockholm Syndrome again, I see. Namely that she is displaying herself to be more European than Irish.

    Not just her, I’m afraid. TDs of all 3 mainstream political parties are more concerned with being seen as pro-Europe than looking after the interests of their own people.

    Reply
  • Very irritating woman IMO

    Reply
  • what I find quite disturbing is how far these politicians are from reality.
    they exist in a bubblewrapped world oblivious to real pain
    austerity has not even touched them
    six figure salary and a six figure pension for most of them
    and for what
    three years burying your head in the sand

    Reply
  • Mark 04/02/13 #

    Minister of bullshït more like.

    Reply
  • Remind me of something here. Didn’t Germans get really wealthy, not by being uber competitive,but by becoming lazy, expecting more for less and by lumping all the highly profitable yet labour intensive arbeit on to the backs of millions and millions of immigrant Turks. Maybe German bankers & politicians (and not only German ones for that matter) should lower their expectations on profit margins. Let’s also call a spade a spade here, the average Irish person doesn’t really have any opinion of the average German. What we have discovered though is German government policy is the real face of modern E.U. policy ,like it or not. This policy is a far fry from the original ideals behind the European project.

    Reply
  • Our view of Germany is based on what comes out of Angela Merkel’s mouth. At Davos she stated that wages need to be driven down right across Europe to make us more competitive. This I can understand from a business perspective, but cannot work unless you couple it with driving down peoples costs/bills/debts by the same margin & writedown morgages and values of homes… our costs our rising making yhe whole thing totally unsustainable. .. leading to dire social issues.
    This is what is the lost generation, caught in a trap.

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    • My view of Germany is based on spending time in Germany and getting to know some German people. It’s a more accurate way to form a real opinion. Stop repeating soundbites and find out for yourself.

      Reply
    • @ Grumpy face, Why would I have to live there or know the citizens of Germany to see what effect German policy is having on all of Europe, Ireland being my main concern? The age of technology is great isn’t it.

      Reply
    • Because you’ve taken it upon yourself to say what and why the Irish people think. Bit arrogant that. It does help to have a bit of knowledge about something, ie, a country of 90 million people, over 10% of whom are non-nationals or the children of non-nationals, before stating an opinion about said thing, yet alone stating that this is not just your opinion, but the opinion if the whole of the Irish people. Like I said, if you want your opinion to be taken seriously, you need to back it up with real-world facts, not soundbites.

      Reply
    • Nikolas,
      – as an Irish person, totally agree with your comments. Just a word of advice, – (as you may have already probably noticed!), – some of the commenters here not necessarily the most broadminded of pople.
      Most frankly, not even worth bothering to replying to.
      And probably not representative of many Irish people out there.

      Reply
    • You have assumed a lot there.. “we” does not mean a nation, just like minded people on this thread, as the thumbs would suggest.

      Not that I should need to state but I spent 5 years learning german and and have been to germany! Great place and people.

      I just dont like the fact that our economy is dictated by theirs.

      Don’t be so judgmental.

      Get over this soundbites rubbush, my views are based on a wide base of information, not sky news scrollings..

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    • Oh for gods sake nikolas, go back to bl00dy Germany if its so fricken brilliant!!

      Reply
    • Zoe, we have a 1000 year tradition of making the wrong bet when it comes to alliances with any of our European neighbours. This has taking us from protectorate to tributary state through a Millenium of abundant sentimentality.

      Reply
    • No Shayne, that’s YOUR view. How dare you presume to speak for me.

      Reply
  • Have no interest whatsoever in anything that Lucinda the Cretin has to say.

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  • Oh god she is away with the fairies.
    Go back to practising law please.

    Reply
  • The Europe that everyone thought they were getting in the 70′s and 80′s is very different to the control freak super state that now exists. A super state that is a vehicle for French and German political ambition. A Europe that is not believed in by most Germans at this stage.

    God be with the days when Europe was about different nations working together rather than ever increasing control by Brussels, Financial union and a currency that is killing half the continents economies.

    Our negativity Lucinda is also drive by knowing that we are not going to go to a cushy job in the EU in years to come on a highly inflated salary and expenses.

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    • Hmm, did you really think that the Land of Milk and Honey was going to appear? A cushy job is not a right, it is not something you are entitled to. The sooner people in Ireland remember like before the boom and lose the sense of automatic entitlement, the better.

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    • The sooner Germany remembers that its lending to Irish banks caused the so called boom and that they have no automatic entitlement to repayment of this money the better. as you are a champion of fairness I’m sure you agree Nikolas’

      Reply
    • huzar 04/02/13 #

      If i had a mushroom now i know where i’d shove it!

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    • @Nikolas I agree with a lot of your posts Nikolas, but on this I completely disagree with you and to be honest am quite insulted by the remark ” The sooner people in Ireland remember like before the boom and lose the sense of automatic entitlement, the better.” We the Irish people pay our government huge sums of money in order for them to source Employment for our people and to run our country accordingly, some of us have been paying Governments of many many years. So Yes, I do believe we are entitled. entitled to be treated with respect, not as Lucienda says “in a condescending or negative way.

      Reply
    • @ Esther – if I offended you then I sincerely apologise, that was not my intent. I admit that what I wrote was aimed more at a certain reader/commenter rather than the general public. We were very self-congratulatory during the boom years, and both our quality of life and extendible income was far higher than the European average. I’m not claiming the “we all partied” line, but we kept money moving, a stark contrast to Germany in 2005/6 when the dilemma was that people weren’t spending enough and were hiding money under the bed or sneaking out of the country. Of course we’re currently in an unenviable situation, only partially of our own making. The previous government screwed us by linking us to a ridiculous debt. But we now are linked to the debt, and offering no alternative other than saying “we’re not paying. Bu**er off!” puts us in the losing position.

      Reply
    • The only way that will will get a debt reduction is if we can come up with a solution that is smart and attractive enough to sell to the EU. The money has to be balanced out. We need a way in which it can be balanced out while not paying for it out of the taxpayer’s pocket and remaining within the EU regulations of which we did agree to in previous treaties. I’m not saying we should take it lying down, but we need smart solutions. What I meant by entitled is the idea that we can present ourselves as stroppy teenagers and expect others to come up with a solution that is attractive to us. Because it’s not going to happen. While the EU may owe us a big favour, no country is going to offer to pay off the debt that is in or name out f the goodness of their hearts. Life doesn’t work like that, it never has. The only solution that will benefit us is one tat we come up with and we can convince other nations of. But that’s not happening, either by the government or by the opposition. It mightn’t be our fault that we’re in this mess, but it is us that’s in this mess, and we can’t rely on anyone else except us to get us out of this mess. I do very much believe that expecting someone else to take on the responsibility of our economic welfare is misplaced entitlement.

      Reply
  • Lucinda and Irish culture have always been at odds it wont be long before she’s calling for a ban on speaking Irish. Joking-ish.

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  • Give her a German passport and tell her to feck off over there

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  • The Germans are simply not going to sanction a favourable deal on our debt when the people negotiating across the table are earning so much more than them. Our “negotiators” effectively are there to represent the other 300,000 overpaid public sector workers for whom we were “bailed out” to pay and not Joe Public. But then L. C. would never mention that…..

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  • Yay… Another politician telling us how to behave and think….. Very Hitler-esque….

    Reply
  • Germany and debt write-downs! Germany only ever paid about 1/8th of the reparations due for WW1 and believe it or not the final payment was made in September 2010!
    Post WW2 the vast majority of the original reparations were written off and granted Germany loans to meet its payments.
    Following the German occupation of Greece in WW2 Greece received mainly material goods in reparation — such as machines made in West Germany — worth approximately $25 million, which in today’s money amounts to as much as $2.7 billion.
    Under the terms of the 1953 London Debt Agreement, WW2 reparation payments were put off until a peace treaty was signed. That finally happened in 1990, which didn’t require Germany to pay further reparations to other countries like Greece.
    Post WW2 Germany didn’t really have to pay any reparations for a war that Germany started as the US imposed economic strictures on any agreed reparation amounts
    Greece hasn’t invaded anyone including Germany

    Reply
  • I moved to Germany in the final days of the hedonistic Celtic tiger. I have found the people friendly and welcoming, the country to be run with a sense of pride and with public services as if provided by the private sector. Salaries are good but taxes are HIGHER yes higher here for what I would call above mid income earners. However taxes appear to be used for good purposes. Things change slowly and Germans are sensible with money. I find the idea if a recession laughable when I return home to Ireland to see how people are still spending alot of money of non essential things. Those people who are anti German should come spend some time living here. The Germans may not “have the craic” but the can offer their citizens a lot more usable quantifiable benefits.

    Reply
    • I thought you had to earn a lot more in germany than ireland before you actually went into the top tax bracket?

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    • Germany confirming to German stereotype shocker.

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    • *conforming

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    • He he he… Tax is bloody high in Germany. Salaries are good if you have the required skills, but don’t go to Germany on spec. expecting a job, unless you have the skills needed. As a non-national contract worker you’ll need to be earning at least €2400- a month gross in order to have what passes as an acceptable quality of life by Irish city standards. Just remember the average German worker has far lower expectations than the equivalent Irish worker and indulging sob stories in not part of the national character. Accept all that and Germany’s not a bad place to be. Watch out for their property bubble rising on the horizon though..

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    • @ Nikolas. You describe it perfectly as I have and am experiencing it. Property is in major trouble in Munich I reckon. And you are right Germans do not expect to be flinging money around left right and centre. Plus 2400€ would get you an ok standard of living as a German but an Irish person they would turn their nose up at it.

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    • I know their so sensible it’s irritating.

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    • @Simon, its not as fantastic and welcoming as you make out, and wages are generally low, specifically nurses where its not considered unusual to have 2 jobs to make ends meet. On another note they generally smoke too much in public, its appalling how tobacco companies freely advertise. I couldn’t believe the amount of smokers here.

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    • I dont think people are anti German , they’re just pro irish sovereignty , they want to live in a sovereign nation owned by the irish people as was the vision of the 1916 proclamation.

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  • nauseating dose of shite

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  • who is this idiot: neutrality is narcissistic” ? Can she really be serious? I do realise that Blueshirts cannot be counted on to know Irish history but this just takes the biscuit! Why are the Blueshirts so blody anxious to do away with neutrality? Bigger defence budgets? Who needs that? We’re a smal country and don’t need a large defence force. We have plenty of things to spend money on. Is there a particular Facist the Blueshirts who like to prop up, after all Franco is dead!

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  • If we promise to give Germany 12 points in the Eurovision for eternity, could we get the debt dropped?

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  • “European common defence” – would Turkey be included?

    Oh, I forgot, Ms Cretin, does not regard them as European.

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  • Nasty individual with self serving backward views.

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  • Well to be fair they hold biggest sway. What they say goes. Screw irelan small enconomy they worry only about their own. To a degree we would be the same

    Wait till germany decides on interest rates going up. Fun will start then..

    As for neutrality we are not nuturel.

    Reply
    • tom 04/02/13 #

      I don’t want my kids killed in some political dispute for power.
      Plus are we to forget that in WWII both sides had plans to attack and invade Ireland. If anything we should be come pirates and grab the bounty for ourself. .

      Reply
  • Why would anybody give that woman even the forum to release her crap??

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  • Lucinda you total embarrassment!! I for one expect a total debt write down of a private banks debt. Its not the Irish peoples debts, we never gambled that money and we should not be made pay it back!!!

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    • A huge amount of this debt is household and small business debt. So yes, we did gamble the money.

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    • No it’s not. Go away fine gael

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    • That doesn’t matter. The money was lent out by a private institution. It’s not sovereign debt. All debt is taken out by households businesses and corporations and governments. Banking debt is not sovereign debt. Therefore not our problem. People who lent from the bank have a duty to repay their share and if they can’t be declared bankrupt but the country as a whole has no responsibility to take on the debts of the bank.

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    • Banking debt becomes sovereign debt when the government enacts legislation as they did in 2009. This government acted legally and were voted in by the electorate. Would people have been comfortable losing their savings over 20K? There would have been riots over that one. I’d still prefer that outcome as I had no cash in the game.

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    • Mule
      the people still have the debt
      these are the debts of the golden circle and about 100 others who gambled in the anglo casino
      the government won’t write off peoples debt
      we pay it every month in our mortgages and when we cant we get evicted

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    • I would love to see a breakdown of the debt in anglo
      how much of it was private and how much was commercial
      less of course the staff loans if you know what i mean

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    • Mule, the private debt of individual householders like credit cards and mortgages was not written down or put into a problem bank. I really dont know where you got that idea.
      Only the debts of less than 200 developers was bundled together (70 billion of it) and then privatised.
      Joe and Mary Bloggs, still owe their credit cards bills, private mortgages etc.
      Its comments like your own, that are so false in their suggestion (Like Enda Kenny said at Davos last year, he and his lot all partied) but its the rest of us that are being asked to service the debt of Kenny, FF and FFG party members and the very few other idiots who ran up the 70 Billion.
      Outside of the 70 Billion, the rest of us were doing just fine until Kenny/Gilmore and their predecessors strangled the economy to death through ever increasing taxation and economy choking measures.

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    • There are lots of private debt writeoffs happening which is a disgrace. There are NO evictions happening. There were more evictions occurring back in 2004-2006. The government actually banned repossessions.

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    • and so they bloody well should,
      answer me this
      why pay the debts of gamblers and stock market punters and not pay the debts of your own people

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    • this is the reality
      we have to pay back 30 billion for anglo
      3 billion a year for 10 years
      each year this taken at the expense of out schools hospitals and services
      this money when repaid is destroyed and the reason is that it didn’t exist in the first place
      europe claim that this is the only way to do it to balance the books but yet
      the european central bank has pumped nearly a trillion euro into the eurozone
      where did they magic that out of who will repay it
      you can’t have one law for them and another for us

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    • A town with money’s a lot like a mule with a spinning wheel…

      …nobody knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it!

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    • He he he….. Mule!

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    • The guarantee was given to banks based on false declarations, liquidity they said not solvency issues.
      Usually that voids a contract. As we didnt get a banking enquiry/investigation we cannot pursue that further.
      Why is that??

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  • It’s amazing how L.C. can talk about us needing to “grow up” and join a common defence after our partners just threw us under a bus in the common currency. At this rate, if we were in a common army, they would have the Paddies for infantry as they came up the rear in their Panzers with lots of “friendly fire” to keep us “moving forward”.

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  • Think she’s a little disconnected out there in Europe. If anything the media are too soft on our dictatorship of a government and Europe! We are the only ones paying in full, while the likes of Belgium and Austria get off scot free! They have quietly been bailed out while we’re made feel like we caused the whole problem. The media should be hounding our lying good for nothing government out of office before march, but no they’re waiting til they’re pensions kick in.

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  • spot on!

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  • Germany should be very grateful to Ireland. Didn’t, FF guarantee the German Bondholders in Irish Banks? Ireland rescued the German banks at the expense of the Irish Taxpayers.!

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  • Since when Miss Creighton does anyone give a toss what you think. Muppetry.

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  • Germany, lost the war and got the prize, control of Europe

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    • Don’t mention ze war

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    • Central Europe fought the war, made peace, got the Marshall plan(American money), rebuilt industry, created the coal and steel treaties leading to the EEC. Meanwhile the Irish Government, not the people, sat on the sidelines. No matter where you stand on neutrality, it meant Dev did not have the means to develop the economy. Ireland has been making up ground ever since.

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  • Paul 04/02/13 #

    Its gonna snow tonight lads, yessss.

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  • She is a clown

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  • I’d like to thank those who provided detailed arguments and interesting POVs in their comments. Recent economic developments are not my strong suits. Are there any interesting books (not pulp) that deal with major economic development over the past ten years?

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  • She is a party whips worst nightmare . Foot in mouth .

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  • Don’t mention the war.

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  • Not as negative as the views on you and that shower your in power with but you will find that out at the next election

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  • This woman is astounding. She can barely disguise her contempt for “us”.
    This woman was made for the rotten heart of Europe, a definite Bilderberg group attendee.
    “Unfortunately now that is all history for us: it has happened and we need to move on” is basically, “take your beating and shut up”.

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  • if Creighton is so German in her outlook then perhaps she should go and live there. in fairness the reason there is anti German sentiment is the fact that we the Irish people are being forced to pay for the gambling debts of German banks this is not some myth this Lucinda is reality. no matter how you spin it no matter how much bluster you come out with the facts are the facts. how the hell is a country supposed to reduce a deficit by borrowing money. the only deficient that has been reduced is the banks balance sheets deficient all at the expense of the public purse. perhaps we could revoke her citizenship and deport her to Germany, she can cozy up to fuhrer merkel maybe she will pay for her to mess around Brussels. in fairness wtf does she actually do all day. we are paying this person to tear back between Ireland and Europe spouting EU federalists b..lshit.

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    • Oh dear. You’ve managed to get almost all of the usual bigoted soundbites into a single post. Congratulations, You’ve written a great synopsis for the hard of thinking. but not a lot of original thinking, just repetition if the usual snouty shouty. Let’s focus on one single point; you really honesty suggest that Ireland should legally be allowed to forcibly remove an Irish person’s rights to citizenship and to forcibly eject them from their own country? And who get’s to decide this? You? Does the idea of being a dictator, or, as you said “führer” ( you should look the word up, it really doesn’t mean what you think it does ) appeal to you so much. You sound suspiciously like what you claim to condemn. I’d peddle your half-baked fascism elsewhere, if I were you.

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    • here here , so so true , people like FG/FF/Lab etc are happy to live under the German Kaiser Angela Merkel , you see the problem in Ireland is that the Politicians want to live in a Federal Europe while the rest of the population want to live in sovereign Ireland .

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  • she says “I hope that because we have been so successful in implementing our programme for the past eighteen months, there will also be good will towards Ireland. That could also put us in a key position to really make some progress”

    here lies the problem , Fine Gael , Fianna Fail , Labour are ‘obsessed’ with what EU leaders think of us , they think that being subservient and keeping are heads down is somehow going to magically transform the country , they dont realise that the EU leadership dont give a stuff about Ireland , they dont even realise that they themselves are ‘nothings’ to the EU regime , just one big joke of politicians who think themselves overly important like Lucinda , I feel sorry for the woman in a way because she has deluded herself into thinking she is actually a ‘player’ whos opinion matters ,

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  • It’s quite disturbing how negative her own views on same-sex marraige are.

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  • Where did my post go?

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  • Oh my god…. I agree with something Lucinda Creighton said. Feel like I need to jump in the shower with a Brillo pad, this is the dirty feeling that don’t come clean. I take at least solace in her use of ‘narcissistic’ as a adj. seeming odd

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