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Dublin: 9 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

Burton: How many people have had benefits cut for not taking up jobs? Almost 900

In a strong speech about social welfare, the Minister gave the first major indication that Labour will strongly resist any big cuts to benefits in December’s Budget.

Image: Niall Carson/PA Wire

MINISTER FOR SOCIAL Protection Joan Burton has given the first major indication that Labour will strongly resist any big cuts to social welfare benefits in December’s Budget.

In a strong speech this weekend, the Minister emphasised to Labour party members that the party is committed to a strong social welfare system and asked for members not to judge government decisions too harshly. She also said she would like to see tax loopholes closed to ensure high earners pay more tax, and an increase in PRSI for employers and employees.

Minister Burton also revealed that almost 900 people have had their benefits cut by around 23 per cent for not taking up employment or training offered to them.

During the speech at a Labour Youth summer school in Kilkenny, the Minister said that cutting social welfare benefits to people who need them would have a negative effect on the economy, saying:

How much of the €188 per week paid to a recipient of Jobseekers Allowance leaks out of the economy in the form of savings or transfers abroad? I think that the answer is evident – very little if any at all.

So then ask yourself this: what impact would across the board welfare cuts have on businesses operating in the Irish economy? On retailers? On tradesmen? On their suppliers?

She said that while she accepted that not all welfare spend is targeted as effectively as it could be, people should not fall into the trap of believing the “sometimes simplistic analysis that compares the highest earning welfare recipient with the lowest earning employee to paint a picture of welfare spongers on the take”.

This type of populist narrative not only disparages the many thousands of our citizens who, despite their best efforts, depend on, and are grateful for, the safety net of welfare but it also undermines the community ethos that is core to welfare  - an ethos that  underpins our system of social democracy.

The Minister said that was was needed was to “reform the system of welfare to make it more effective” by ensuring it does not promote welfare dependency but instead, has as its central tenet “the aim of engaging with people to help them out of dependency and back into the labour force”.

“The citizen’s duty to work whenever possible”

The Minister defined her vision for the welfare state as being about “the citizen’s duty to work whenever possible”. She said her primary aim as Minister has been to “transform the system of social protection in this country from one of passive income support to one of active engagement with people who are unfortunate enough to become unemployed”.

She also revealed that she is looking at bringing in a system which would guarantee a job and training to young people if they have been unemployed for a period of time.

She noted that many commentators have said that Ireland needs to move to European-average levels of taxation in order to provide the types of services that people need while keeping state finances in a sustainable state.

“At the upper end, there may be a lot of truth in this largely because of the wide variety of tax reliefs which continue to exist to enable the wealthy to sustain an effective level of taxation far lower than the headline top rates,” said Minister Burton.

She cited the example of a landlord with a ‘substantial’ number of investment properties drawing down a six-figure income but who has to pay little tax due to the legacy of property tax shelters.

Welfare traps

She said she felt that “the public remains to be convinced that people at work are always better off than people on welfare,” and said that she has been focusing on welfare traps which hit people who stop working and remain reliant on benefits.

The Minister said that people who don’t engage with work programmes like JobBridge and TÚS will be penalised, and noted that almost 900 people have had their payments reduced already by about 23 per cent.

“If they don’t produce evidence that they are genuinely seeking work they face losing their payments altogether,” she said.

In the speech, the Minister said that people who argued that “at this time of scarcity, we cannot afford welfare” are wrong.

She cited historical analogies – including post-war Britain and Roosevelt’s New Deal in Depression-era America – as examples of how the welfare state successfully expanded and reacted as a response to austerity, and argued that Ireland should be looking at a similar response.

The speech will be seen as a statement of intent by Labour on where it stands before Budget negotiations begin.  Earlier this week Fine Gael HQ sent a message to all its TDs telling them that the Cabinet has not yet made any decisions about what will be contained in December’s Budget and that discussions will not take place until autumn.

photo

Joan Burton giving her speech at Labour Youth’s Tom Johnson Summer School in Kilkenny.  (Photo via Labour)

Read: Fine Gael HQ assures TDs: No decisions made about Budget 2013 yet >


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Comments (83 Comments)

  • briewee 01/07/12 #

    I’ve worked since i was 17yrs old, I’ve 3 kids when I got pregnant on the last one the company closed down, I had to go to the dole office and sign on once a mth, (my partner can’t work and we claimed the dole from my credits) i know people where looking at me judging, once my baby was born and i had stopped breast feeding i went looking for work within a month of starting to look for work I started a CE scheme, I am getting LESS then i was getting on the dole, i work out €15 less every week after tax and usc, €15 might not seem much but when you are on a very tight budget before, it means that i eat less so my kids do not go without. i am sick of hearing everyone on the dole is a sponger, it is the people who did not find work during the boom times and stayed on the dole, they are the ones that should be looked at and why they don’t want to work

    Reply
  • Joan would save a hell of a lot more money if she and here colleagues focused more on making real job training places available. I know one rural person left school absolutely no work locally (unable to afford transport, no bus network to speak of) desperate to train as a hairdresser, as that’s where her skills lay. Doing that 2 year course meant she could work in Cork or Dublin, or even London or New York. In the nearest city there was 500 applicants for 14 places. Needless to say she wasn’t successful at getting a placement and continued on the dole for 12 months (5,200 ish) looking for something and scratching her head to find a training place on something that wasn’t just passing the time for a FAS lecturer for a few weeks. Our issue isn’t really the small percentage of scroungers on the books – we’ll get around to them and like most things we need that issue sorting out – it’s tackling the massive 400k problem that’s costing a hell of a lot more as my example shows. We need creativity here Joan . . .

    Reply
    • Thank God a proper comment about the real problem, rather then all this baby farming and sponger nonsense.

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    • Ner a truer word spoken!n

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    • Hear hear Martin, I know a few people in that situation. I’m really sick listening to the sweeping one sided comments that people on welfare get pregnant to get a house or get benefits and that all of them are wasters and/or foreigners blah blah blah. I wonder Miss Kilkenny Cat if you lost your job in the morning how it would make you feel to read your comment?

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    • Barry 01/07/12 #

      Eimear Smith, whilst you may not like them Kilkenny Cat comments they are however accurate, there are many many people abusing the social welfare system and have been for decades.

      These people have no intention of ever working and just want to live off the state for as long as possible by getting as much money as possible. These people should be cut off.

      And before you go suggesting that I’d comment differently if i was out of a job, well I was and so was my wife for a number of years so I’m well aware of how hard things can be but I also so the massive abuse that went on and how some people saw it as a handy number for getting money.

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    • Any ideas then Martin?

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    • Barry I have no problem with people being cut off from benefits if they are playing the system and I am also well aware that there are people who just can’t be bothered….it’s how negatively some people comment and that’s what I was referring to. I didn’t say I agree or disagree. Last year I was out of work for a short period of time, i was 7 months pregnant and it was very unexpected that I all of a sudden I had to sign on. I wonder if people who saw a young (ish!) woman heavily pregnant, standing in a queue with two other small children thought of me? A lazy baby making machine who couldn’t be bothered to go out and get a job or a nurse out of work who couldn’t get another job as no employer wanted an employee who was due to head off on maternity leave?

      Reply
  • I don,t want to be on welfare but I have no choice or i,ll starve to death. I feel ashamed I can’t find a job. I’m on 188 a week. No medical card, no rent allowance and own no property. I am just surviving. I have applied to hundreds of jobs all over Dublin and louth and have heard nothing back. I’m feel embarassed and ashamed going to the post office every week to collect 188. I can’t save 1 cent. The Irish are disgusting and critical when judging their own nationality.

    Reply
  • Well we try again, A simple dose of realty is needed here, studies have shown that the net spend of the wealthy has in fact increased since the eighties, while on the other hand the spending power of the poor has decreased. Another study which was done by Joan Burtons own department along with social justice Ireland show that those on welfare are in fact not getting enough to live on. Only recently, it was announced the cost of living is the fifth highest in Europe.

    Furthermore, there is no incentive for low paid workers to stay working. When you, work, it should provide you with a quality of life that is better than the dole, but the reality is different. Governments, globally are now following neo-librealist policies, which in fact is all about attacking the poor. The Guinea pig for neo-librealism was Argentina, and what happened the country collapsed.

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  • Baby making has become a business for a lot of people on social welfare. It’s no different to puppy farming. There are plenty of people out there who don’t abuse the system, but it’s painfully obvious which ones are taking advantage. There are a large amount of foreigners coming here to abuse our soft approach to benefits, but plenty of Irish people are taking the easy way out as well. n

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    • I listened to David Cameron make that very point earlier this week. Genuine recipients of social welfare are being damaged by those that abuse the system. Society is being damaged by a system that supports those that abuse the system. All sections of society have a minority of people who are happy to rip the rest of us off, how do you tackle this thorny issue without the likelihood that the innocent children are not put at risk?

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    • Cat, have you considered taking the easy way out yourself? You make it sound so attractive, perhaps you are a secret marketeer for the welfare industry?

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    • I think anyone who was and still is unemployed for over 5 years just doesnt want to work. nAnyone who wanted a job 5 years ago could get one very easy. So I’d give them 3-5 more months and then cut them off.

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    • @ Cat. This is the most outrageous, bigotted, inhuman, xenophobic and just plain ignorant comment it as been my misfortune to read for some considerable time.

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    • @ Ben

      My feeling exactly. I need a shower after reading it.

      The reference to ‘puppy farming’ is pure fascism.

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    • @Ben and Old Nokia-it would appear from the thumbs up that others don’t seem to share your views on my comment. Perhaps you’d be better served offering a counter argument rather than just calling the views of others ignorant. Hope all’s well in your ideal world.

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    • KC, If you can provide data to support these claims, do so. If you cannot provide data, please do the decent thing and withdraw the claims.

      If you know of someone making a bogus claim, report it. If you don’t, please withdraw the implication that you do know fiddlers.

      My usual response to people who make the type of claims you’ve made is to ask them to take me to see one of the fiddlers they are so sure exist. I’ve never been brought to meet one or had one pointed out to me. It’s always a case of “everyone knows” in spite of the experience that no one seems to know even one fiddler. Well, let me be clear. I most certainly don’t know of anyone who is on the fiddle and I most certainly don’t know of anyone on welfare who could be described as anything other than poor.

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    • I have the same feeling against the Irish in my country, which is Australia.

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  • The people who caused this recession are not being punished. The ordinary people are being punished while Bankers and politicians still get huge salaries. Why is this?

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  • Paul 01/07/12 #

    All this nonsense about baby making machines, foreigners abusing the system, yada yada yada being spewed by the brainwashed makes me wretch. Dont you people realise that this is the kind of rubbish that the powers that be want you to think so they can further divide and conquer? Bloody serfs! The vast majority of unemployed people in Ireland would jump at the chance of a job. Simple fact – there are not enough jobs for the people that want them.
    Now Joan’s plans are all well and good but does anyone believe she gives a damn about anyone other than her egregious clique of money grabbers and crooks. And why not make retraining etc services available from the minute someone becomes unemployed so they dont have to wait around for months on end before they can begin to move on with the rest of their lives. Joan get to the back of the class and wear the pointy hat with the big D on it!

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  • mel 01/07/12 #

    More welfare bashing what about all our corrupt politicians still drawing a wage
    Ivor Callely found guilty of fiddling his expenses gets 3month paid holiday
    Bertie Aherne still gets his 150ka year pension and so on, and the media don’t tackle this subject at all

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    • Bad as those high profile people defrauding etc in terms of overall money it probably pales into insignificance compared to the scale of welfare costs. A handful of people on high incomes versus tens of thousands of lower incomes. It’s not just the cash either, it’s all the extras provided too like medical cards etc that have a huge cost to the taxpayers

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    • Couldn’t agree more! To many getting paid for things they did to line there own pockets!! I also think they at the dail should take a pay cut! David will say if you do that then the top ppl won’t go for politics well my answer to that is good we mite get ppl who want to run the country not get on the gravy train!

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    • cimada 01/07/12 #

      Also people who are self employed are punished if they go bust. I know many people who never worked a day in their lives literally and are maybe 25-30 getting 188€ a week and a man who ran a shop and created employment living on 100€ week since he went bust. BULLSHIT. I think the welfare is too good to the wrong folk a lot of the time. My brother would be better off on dole he is working full time. If that man I know can live on 100€ a week what makes everyone else different? The system is shit, completely shit.

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  • How about a cap on Social Welfare. You cannot as a family or an individual get over a certain total amount regardless of how many “entitlements” are available to you. If it was based on the average Irish family size, that I feel would weed out a lot of those who are having countless children at the states expense. Money saved could then be put back into retraining genuine unemployed people who are eager to upskill and get back into the job market.

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    • Great idea! So practical and easy to implement.

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    • How about more real assistance in making employment viable?

      a. lets create some real jobs (not pretend makey-up work). A real job is one capable of sustaining a family’s full range of needs and at least some wants.

      Low pay IS a disincentive to work, regardless of welfare levels… and should be. I’d love to ask everyone who complains “welfare is too high” what their personal “bottom line” for income is. I’m certain very few would accept welfare levels as adequate FOR THEM.

      b. let’t grant tax relief on childcare and transport to work. For some bizarre reason, these expenses that are wholly incurred by reason of employment are not allowed by revenue. They will enter your calculations when considering jobs on offer, nevertheless.

      c. let’s grant a per child tax credit that can be applied to either parent or divided between them. This will level up differences between working parents – whose family size has little impact on income, and families on welfare.

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    • difficult to implement when the ones who are playing the system best have multiple/false names, multiple pps numbers (shocked at how easily that is achieved!) and so on.

      Unfortunately this stuff is so hard to find out for authorities without investment.

      Most EU states have no such concept of ‘long term unemployed’. Like in Spain I believe you can receive benefits for up to 2 years max

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    • The Chinese abortion birth-control model is coming next, I presume?
      Great for your ‘weeding-out!’
      How will you ‘ weed them out?’
      Gas chambers? KIll every second child? State-sponsored castration – or neutering?
      Never head of ‘countless’ children in a family!

      You must have none; any parent could not be so callous, or could they?

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    • You may start the culling with the families of the 16 who ‘Like’ your sentiments.

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    • cimada 01/07/12 #

      Hmmm one family was receiving 45000 a year. One house. Getting rent paid an medical cards etc. I have to agree. It’s not fair on workers! And I’m not talking about F**king politicians we all know theyre paid too much that doesn’t justify people getting more on welfare than they would earn if both parents worked. And no this isn’t NOT the case as people keep saying.

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  • An ex (self employed) employer of mine had to let his two staff go in 2010, one polish, one irish. I had since moved on but stay in touch, both were on a good wage and are good workers. As of last week despite attempts to look for work and upskilling through Fas both are still unemployed, but surprisingly both have told me they are earning more now on welfare (both married with kids) overall than when working and have the added bonus of a few nixers every now and again. Some contrast to the ex employer, who didnt qualify for benefit so he spent all of his savings trying to keep his head above water, it took 6 months to get any assistance, his house is on the market now. No one wins here but the system really is a complete joke and it needs radical reform!

    Reply
  • Hi David, myself and my co-members do have an idea, and it will be announce on the 10th July, on the website. And, you may hear it on the news – that is if, I’m not totally blanked by RT’e which is their usual want for not flying the FF/FG flag.

    Reply
  • 900 now getting roughly 50 less. 45000 euro in the bank! (hopefully not Ulster) With these savings we can tell the IMF to go home.

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    • And how much was spent to make those “savings”?

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    • The real figure is €2.34 million (45,000*52 weeks). It also sends out a message to spongers that they will be caught and hopefully there will be an increase in inspectors to increase the numbers caught.

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    • If they have refused a job why are the benefits only being cut by 23% instead of stopped altogether?

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    • My bad Brian. But the message isn’t “get caught and you’ll have to pay it back” it’s “get caught and you won’t get it in future”

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    • How about this for a message. When I was getting assessed the girl was taking my details (single, no kids) and she said straight to my face that I would be better off if I was a single parent with a child.!!! I couldn’t believe what she had just said to me. To get rent allowance I am forced to go on a housing list even though I am happy where I am. In 3 years I haven’t once been offered a training course or been told to go on one. I have never been asked if I am looking for work. I’m covered on both fronts as I got my diploma from UCC with shag all help from the state and I’m constantly sending out CV’s. I’ve applied for more courses through the Bluebrick website and in my last interview the guy asked me that if I was successful when could I start. I told him I just needed 5 minutes to get a quick cuppa coffee and I’d be ready. That’s how ready I am to take up a job.

      The problem is that when you here the SW officer tell you that you would be better off taking advantage of the system then then what do you expect some people to do? I see the same people walking in to my letting agents office demanding this and that done to their council houses because “it’s their right”. I’ve friends of mine in similar circumstances who got off their arses, retrained or got part time jobs because they want a better life for themselves. Yes they got Government aid when and where they could but they used it productively. They are now net contributors to society whereas there are others that seem to think that their “job” is to draw the dole without ever working a day in their lives.

      What is happening now is that this small minority is being used as a stick to beat down the vast majority who want to work, retrain or just do something, anything!. The SW system is screwed and so is the training system. There are plenty of qualified people on the dole who can train people and plenty of NAMA buildings in major towns that could be used to train people locally rather than dragging them 30 or 40 miles into cities. Why are courses 1 day a week over 6 months when they could be shortened by doing them 3 days a week. Of course that would take common sense and vision something that the Government is hugely short on. It’s far easier to cut the benefits of 400+K people rather than tackling the root causes of the problem.

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    • Agree with you Brian I just got cut of benefits and the allowance they are putting me on I got an accountant to look at it and he said don’t fill the forms cos I will get f all due to my parents who don’t give me anything but there income hits me! I am sending cvs out but hard to get a job at what I did and anything new wants experience!

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    • @ Brian WardnTo take it a step further, not just use NAMA buildings for training but both fully trained and FAS trainees could be put at work finishing Nama properties like ghost estates around the country. Training in trades related to all are best achieved by doing the job on site so why not put our unemployed but wanting labour force back to work to clean up the mess left by developers and at least we would have a valuable asset owned by the state at the end of it. Some could be used for social housing- we will always need more. nThe psychological effect on unemployed people being able to get out to do a days work again alone would make it worthwhile. I’m sure there are lots of people out there just wanting to get out and do something, anything to keep their skills sharp and learn new ones.

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  • For 99% of people like myself, it’s much better to be out there working. You feel your earning your money, Very depressing searching for work everyday and you hear nothing back. They should not make it so easy for foreigners to come hear have kids and sign on. Look after our own first by helping them get back into work instead of condemning and punishing genuine unemployed people.

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  • A lot of bulldust!!

    Where are all these jobs that no-body wants? Dublin, I suppose.

    There are no jobs to be had – except the slave-labour jobs to keep employers sweet!

    Many job seekers are sick and tired of trying for work and finding out that apploicants must be ‘experienced’ do a simple job of work.

    Persons who have degreesand/ or a masters are being rejected for someone who has neither, despite the fact that the job requires such a level of education.

    What is the point of anyone going to college or university when their most expensive and hard-earned educational qualifications mean nothing nowadays?

    Is there a racket going on with employers- and/or the colleges/universities?

    Seems there is no alternative but to try and join the politicians in the Dáil – the last refuge for the failures (and scoundrels) of society.

    Reply
    • Have to say you have a point no where outside Dublin seems to count! And exp is needed so where do ppl go to get this exp if nobody will try with them!! Would need an essay to write examples here or an article with the journal haha

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    • cimada 01/07/12 #

      Mhmm I’m over qualified for regular jobs I would be happy to take, and under experienced for jobs I’m qualified for. I can only get 15hours a week in a Job that was supposed to just be keeping me while I was In uni… I’ll prob head back and do another course but at this stage my CV is looking very random. These courses are an expensive way to pass time. If I was on the dole I’d likely get funded though. Perhaps I should get fired!

      Reply
  • There’s 1 job to 27 applicants people, most applicants don’t even get a reply from failed attempts. The amount of ill informed crap is something else, nobody gets €45,000 per yr.

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  • @Stephen, you are showing your age here young man,when cigarettes were 6 or €7 they were still illegally importing them, go down Moore street or Grafton street 15 years ago and you would easily get a pack for a lot less.

    So your answer is to keep fleecing those who didn’t cause the problem in the first place, very clever and let the those responsible sail off into the sunset. For example Sean Quinn.

    Banks handed out those mortgages wrecklessly. There was no regulation in the financial sector in Ireland, as The New York Times stated Ireland was like the wild west of the Financial sector. After all what is neo- liberalism Stephen ? A free market with no regulation.

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    • so its the banks fault that paddy the plumber overstretched himself and bought an apartment thats now worth nothing that he can no longer afford. Yeah… because banks were just pushing mortgages onto poor people. A lot of this crisis came from derivatives (packaging up bad loans taken out by POOR PEOPLE , and mixing them with good loans to make them seem like a good deal) ofcourse sean quinn , fitzpatrick and all their mates are to blame aswell, but your acting like the working class just strolled along the road and got held at gunpoint into signing a mortgage, just because theyre not on television being hauled into court, does not for 1 second mean that poor people are these holier than thou innocent victims in this crisis, they have to pay their share too.

      Reply
  • @Kilkenny Cat. Can you back up/quantify your uses of “lots” and “plenty” ? Or is your rapid response just part of the demonisation process? The racist overtone also less than constructive or helpful.

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  • mel 01/07/12 #

    To G Smith calling a medical card is absurd . Firstly it is only of use if you get sick and secondly what are these people to do if there child gets sick….
    Typical right wing crap you are spouting
    The real dilemma is the cost of attending a doctor for all out citizens which hasn’t being tackled
    Also note that when you and your likes compare welfare rates here to the UK , people of the UK can go to the doctor for free and have a whole littany of benefits not available here
    Also our army and all of their families get free medical care in this country which is a little known fact,these people are earning a wage and yet our state pays for all their medical care FREE of charge,why don’t we STOP this lunacy first before attacking those unfortunates at the bottom of the social ladder

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  • I don’t think much of our sw went to the European championship.u d need to b saving a long time.most people who went were the “better off” football addicts here I.e.they have some kind of a job or Irish people workin abroad esp.australia used it as an opportunity to meet up .

    Reply
  • Children’s allowance should be cut on the rich by means testing it. There are 33,000 millionaires living in Ireland. There should also be a wealth tax. Stop attacking the poor, unemployed, people on disability. Greed caused the recession.

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  • Think having babies is incredibly hard work.there s no money would pay u ,and they cost a fortune.23%of188=42.24 multiply by 900 about 36 k less going into the economy every week because people on s.w. spend every penny.well done Joan. Believe this is just a distraction from the real problems and Joan’s just fishing round the bottom of the barrell to make her job look good.dont believe there are 900 hundred viable jobs out there.

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  • Makes me laugh some of the shit people come out with on here !! Call yourself’s educated and well rounded? (laugh)

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  • mel 01/07/12 #

    Correction: ” calling a medical card an extra is absurd”

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  • where are all these so called “baby factories”.Typical right wing fine gael small minded way of thinking designed to get people to turn on each and deflect attention from a government that is completely out of its dept. So let’s blame the poor for all the problems of the country and completely ignore the big Enda Kenny shaped elephant in the room.

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    • Agreed Jason, sure lets round up all the poor and all the dole scroungers and anyone who is of no benefit in this little country of ours,oh yeah and all those pesky foreigners and gay people and bomb the lot. IT IS ALL THEIR FAULT.

      Reply
  • A fair bit of social welfare went abroad for the European Championships,midis Joan forget that or just choose to ignore it?

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  • Shame on Margaret Thatcher Joan Burton.

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  • Where are my comments, anyone on here have similar experiences if comments being censored????. My last comment has not gone up.

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    • Hi Seamus. We didn’t delete your comment and there’s no record in the system of you leaving any other comment on this article. Was it definitely on this piece? If so, you might want to try posting it again.

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  • comments ?

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    • @Stephen, the problem is the rich are not paying their share, offshore accounts, tax havens and loopholes. The middle classes down to the poor are spending and saving their money in this economy. plus who caused the recession, it wasn’t dole scroungers or cheats.

      Welfare system was set up to protect the poor from the greed and excesses of the rich.

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    • @Seamus , I think your living in a fantasy land where all rich people are mr. burns. Also theres a tipping point. Well take cigarettes as an example , when they were 6-7 euro a packet , people didnt really bother importing them, very few seizures at the airport , ever since they went to 8.50 and beyond, the illegal cigarette trade has exploded here, a report last year said in 2010 1 in 7 cigarettes in Ireland was illegal, and there have been a lot more people importing since then.

      If ‘the rich’ are already going to such lengths to avoid tax then taxing them more will just cause them to leave the country or avoid tax using further means.

      The recession was everybodys fault , from the unskilled factory worker getting a 110% mortgage to buy an overpriced apartment in portlaoise, right up to the property developer taking millions off anglo, even the unemployed who cant survive because they rested all their source of income on the husband being a brick layer and thought it would never end. Its not fair to sit there begging the government to increase taxes on the people who already pay more tax (by amount, not percentage) than most of us will ever have to.

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  • Social welfare has become a lifestyle choice in this country, you go into a pub and talk to a lot of younger people just out of school / college , and theyll proudly tell you they’re on the dole. Being on social welfare should be something to be ashamed of , not aspired to. It should also be for surviving , not living. Genuine recipients are harmed by all the scroungers taking the money they need , and so blatantly abusing it. Im sure if the department stepped up investigations and turned the dole into a cashless system (food stamps or some sort of laser card that couldnt be used to get out cash for drugs, drink, cigarettes, holidays, saving, sky tv, internet) then youd have a lot less people sending this country into financial ruin through their own laziness.

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    • Do you even have half a brain. So you think the unemployed are sending this country into financial ruin. How stupid are you. Its politicians and bankers. Its not a lifestyle choice for half a million people. Your probably a guy born with a silver spoon in your mouth with daddy and mammy still looking after you.

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    • @Anonymous “Genuine recipients are harmed by all the scroungers taking the money they need” notice that line, I never said everybody on the dole was a scrounger , there are genuine people who need assistance that cannot survive because of the scroungers abusing the system.

      You cant just blame the rich for everything , and you cant just tax your way out of a hole, everyone has to make sacrifices, including the poor, now is the right time to sort out the social welfare abuse.

      Reply
    • Stephen while i agree with your basic sentiments, i must point out that to the newer people claiming the dole internet access is a must as many use it daily to scourge for new jobs to apply for…also on the matter of savings would you prefer i sacrifice little bits and pieces so i can put away the odd few quid or apply for things like the communion and back to school allowances….most of us claiming social welfare do not want to be on it, dont particularly want to be claiming it, but have no choice

      Reply
    • @Laura , if the abuses were cleaned up and everybody was only claiing their fair share then saving away for back to school etc.. would not be necessary as funds could be made available for such. I think it was €20bn spent on social welfare for 2009 , Id say that if you took all the money spent on nights out, cigarettes, saving, alcohol, drugs, holidays, sky / upc subscriptions and other recreational bits youd save atleast 4-5 billion

      Reply
  • cimada 01/07/12 #

    Can we start again Vincent??

    Reply
  • should be of not if.

    Reply

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