How about they completely write them off. I’ll think about a yes vote then.

Holy moley 3.1 billon for the next 17 years! And these don’t HAVE to be paid, am I right? Bugger spreading it out over 50 years we want some write down or something. Feck FF for this the banks have had enough!

Uh oh. Gilmore said yesterday that there was no Quid Pro Quo.
Welcome comments from Joan but it contradicts what was said yesterday.

Who told her to say that or is it well planned waffle to muddle the waters until voting day. Guys, expect a heap more of this and a ramp up of fear mongering.

This comes from a woman that said on the frontline program last monday on *two* ocaisions that 144k people had left the live register last year to work in Ireland , sorry I don’t believe a word what this woman has to say.

Or, in other words, if we’re allowed to renegotiate the terms of how we repay bankers gambling debts for them, we’ll vote ‘yes’ to hand more power to the people who have sent us to the poorhouse? Cop on Joan…you’re supposed to represent the party of Connolly. It’s not our bloody debt full stop. You think you should be thanked for giving us an opportunity to renegotiate the terms of the biggest injustice committed on the people of the Irish state? End it or shut up.

What happens to not one more penny ,, they told the Irish ppl a short spell ago ,,,, more lies ,,,, and more crap

Relationship with the euro zone ?
This “relationship” is costing us billions every Year probably for the next 20 to 30 Years..
Is it worth the cost..
Relationship my arse..
Dictatorship more like !!!!

Thers the carrot folks but we will be told it will happen after we vote “yes” try not to be fooled.This shower has proved they are no better than FF,well i suppose they can lie better.

They are trying to sell us a dead donkey. In the last few years we all have got economic 101 lessons so we not going be fooled.

Spreading over 50 years rather than 30 years – why spread more like cut, burn in other words Fck Off! I am very much pro-euro, but it sickens me that Merkel and Sarkyarse are dictating a German/French Anglo Fiscal ruling all just to pander to their up coming election bids!! The more I read and listen about this treaty the more I am inclined to vote NO!

We’ll decide if it passes or not, not the government… May be if they had the spine to lead, the people may have the desire to follow….. However, LEO “not a red cent more” Varadkar and the rest of his lying, pocket lining government colleagues haven’t a chance of passing this referendum unless ALL THE BANK DEBT is forgiven as it has and had nothing to do with sovereign debt…. We as a state were not benefiting from the bank or developers profits, why oh why do the government feel we have to pay them off…. VOTE NO NO NO as often as you can

I wondered when the famous ‘promissory notes’ would come up in the context of a possible bribe to get a yes vote. Didn’t take long.

Let’s just be clear what they are. It was a ‘loan’ of money, some €30 billion, created on a keyboard, effectively by the ECB so that Anglo Irish Bank would not be forced into bankruptcy & it’s bondholders (other EU banks mainly) take a loss. The money did not exist previously. There’s no ‘taxpayer’ anywhere on the other end of it. The ECB could give permission tomorrow for the debt to to torn up & binned in its entirety with no (financial) consequences anywhere.

What is unusual, and particularly damaging to the Irish economy, is that rather than paying interest only, the principal must be completely repaid by 2025 at some €3.1 billion per year (incl interest). Normally, for gov loans, the original amount of a loan is repaid at the end of the period & more often than not is simply rolled over into a new loan. In repaying the principal as well in regular instalments, this places a substantial burden on gov finances at a time of already massive, growth, jobs & recovery killing austerity. Money that was created from nothing to save a zombie, non ‘systemic’ (commercial property casino) bank, entirely by the ECB’s insistence (or else), is to be repaid in real money from Irish taxpayers.

The government has been making the case for over 12mths that the ECB could cancel this debt burden at a stroke (at no cost to anyone), particularly as said gov have been particularly supine in dumping all the rest of the banks’ bail outs onto to taxpayers. Not to mention accepting responsibility for banking malfeasance that the ECB itself should have also taken considerable, indeed the majority, of responsibility for.

At every stage, the EU Commission & ECB have responded with the diplomatic equivalent of ‘eff off’.

It should also be noted that the ECB, in the last two months, has happily created, from nothing, over €1,000 billion to give to Euro banks to prop up their ‘liquidity’ (which should also be read ‘solvency’ by any reasonable accounting standard). These loans are for 3 years at a mere 1% interest but does anyone really think they won’t simply be rolled over ad infinitum? (I don’t).

The contrast in attitude could not be more stark.

I say do not be fooled by any attempted bribe on the ‘promissary notes’, even if it’s forthcoming. We are dealing with a ruthless, ideologically bigoted institution which seeks absolute power (it already has too much) over Euro area governments’ financial policy in every important detail – the ECB. The creation of the ESM, beyond any democratic or judicial oversight, and the straightjacket of a legally binding ‘fiscal compact’ to be placed beyond our own governments’ power, is crystal clear proof.

This is from the same organisation that bears massive responsibility for an economic crash merely 8 years into the implentation of a currency union that it largely designed. And rather than admit any accountability, far less offer any solutions to the damage to the real economy of ordinary citizens, it is insisting on more of the same flawed thinking – for over 4 years! – that has completely destroyed a member’s economy (Greece).

It will destroy our economy & prosperity in due course if we let it. If we don’t act now, as citizens, we may not get another chance to assert our democratic rights over what is righfully ours & that of future generations.

Vote NO and demand fundamental accountability & reform & solutions to the crisis for citizens, not just the top few percent of the financial elites. There are real alternatives. I am not anti-euro or EU, in fact the opposite. But not if it is simply to become a kleptocratic & mercantilist dictatorship by & for the top few percent of wealthy elites.

If the Eurozone is not prepared to engage with us on this, then we have no alternative, in our own interests, but to leave the Euro & return to our own currency. (With that we need borrow from no one, and can quickly recover our economy.) Do not be afraid of this or listen to all the fearmongers. If we need to do it, we can, without too much difficulty, see here:

http://moslereconomics.com/2011/11/17/my-big-fat-greek-mmt-exit-strategy/

http://moslereconomics.com/2011/05/16/how-to-exit-the-euro-a-proposal-from-1997/

50 yrs instead of thirty that’s a nice little legacy to leave my children’s grandchildren

Spreading out the payments over 50 years might minimise the immediate impact but it would probably double their cost in terms of the interest that would accrue over the additional 33 years. Not content with imposing these debts on our children, Joan Burton wants our grandchildren to share the pain too.

officially the government should say yes to keep in with the Franco German fiscal plan but put out a weak campaign. The public and media need to make clear that a debt write down is needed to pass it. They blackmail us by saying we will get no more money yet we know by Greece that they can not leave us in a position where we have no money as it would jeopardize the Euro zone. Lets call their bluff ! we have nothing to lose as the debt will be defaulted on eventually anyway only after we are crippled further as we can always vote again if it doesn’t work.

Labour party, the party of the working classes. My Arse.

Throw us a few bob and we’ll be fine. In the old days people were given land and titles…. And they looked the other way.

Labour! The new Greens.

Ripping them up will work better!!!

I see that Kenny called a number of heads of state in Europe to tell them we were going to hold a referendum BEFORE informing the The Houses of the Oireachtas someone should really ask him who does he serve the people of Ireland or is it someone else?

Vote No and when asked again vote No again.

Talking through her hoop as usual

“…help us pass referendum..” erm Burton who is US? After all your and the Labour Party lies pre-election I suppose now at least you’re being truthful……. Now we know the “us” you refer to is not the Irish citizen! I have to conclude your opinion on ANY matter be taken with a pinch of salt…….

Good ole Moan Burton, why pay 10 quid to go to a circus when I can see this clown on the news everyday!

I pray everyone at home will vote No to this.

The US is on its knees because their government have been in bed with the big corporations for a long time – they are finished. The cabals that be are now focusing on Europe – by indebting their governments so heavily (such loans are secured by taxing the people) and for so long that all claim to sovereignty will be lost, for a long time.

Don’t give into the spin that will be coming your way very shortly. Voting Yes to this will the next step in the grand power play to completely eradicate all personal freedoms.

Someone’s spinning more Bullshit.

I wonder how many special advisers it took to work that one out

Two world wars and the Germans could not take over Europe so they came up with this plan to unite Europe, bankrupt all the countries and take control of them. So far the plan is working. Of the twenty seven members only two are dictating therms and conditions, who will be left to free Europe from German domination

Ah, so now they want to give us a better deal so we gladly sign up for totalitarian fascism. No thanks. Incompetent and all as many Irish politicians are, at least we get to elect them. After watching the unelected leaders of the EU’s institutions and the leaders of France and Germany making a hames of things, I don’t trust them either – but we have no say in their election or appointment. I choose dodgy incompetent elected Irish politicians over dodgy incompetent unelected Eurocrats any day.