@ JOHN HERE HERE the con goes on

Amen John
Amen.

John you are missing the point of expenses here. Obviously your employer does not reimburse you for the expense of getting to work. Just as mine doesn’t. However when I have to travel to another office or place of work on official business I expect to receive expenses for the costs incurred. Judges of the High Court, CCJ and Supreme Court do not receive expenses for making their way to work, it’s their normal place of work. Judges of the District Courts are entitled to expenses as they are travelling from one place to the next and not to one specific location like you or I. It is only fair they are reimbursed for this expense on a mileage basis in line with official mileage rates and guidelines.

Somehow I doubt your work requires you to go out and buy a new wig and robs every six months, or that you might need extra security based on threats a murderer made that day at work, or that you need to pay dues to a professional legal society to qualify to do your job or that a court costing thousands an hour to run depends on you to travel there everyday and you’re legal expertise is irreplaceable in that situation.

You’re above rant is nothing more than petty jealousy that society has members considerably more valuable than you

Try public transport. They are public servants after all. Wonders a bus eireann monthly pass can do you.

I think someone’s in loooove with the judges.

Well if truth be told I’m a snob… If the choice came between marrying a member of the legal profession or a guy that flips burgers/works a supermarket register and is dumb enough to think he should get an expense account.

I’m in love alright…

That’s another thing judges like.

850 euro per person per month actually isn’t that bad when you realise that’s travel, subsistence & required clothing

You think 1.67m for the entire judiciary for a whole nation is “horrific”. The Supreme Court figure works out at €103.30 per supreme court judge per month. I know a lot of people working in the private sector who claim that from their corporate employers in a day. Most of that if for attending conferences to assist others, both of the legal and charitable organizations on their own time for not a cent in their own pockets and costing not a cent from the taxpayer. Then its back to reading documentation for the next day.

As for judges of the DC & CC there is a lot of travel, a lot of being woken up at 2am to open a court for an emergency to protect someones constitutional rights. They are forbidden from saying no. They just have to go. Oh and btw there is no such thing as judges overtime. If you spend 16hrs on the job they don’t get a cent more.

Also bear in mind this is all recorded. There is no politicians unvouched crap going on here. Its open for the public to see and assess and its your right to form an opinion and make it but for gods sake (or pick another mythical being) inform yourself & do the math before you judge the judges.

Subsistence. I wasn’t aware that the judiciary were in such dire straits. It makes the cuts to grants for special needs children easier to take. Required clothing. Does this mean that the judges would go naked if they couldn’t avail of this little perk. You need to look at children going to school in the freezing cold and rain, dressed in rags because of cuts to children’s allowance and then make a comment on what is ‘required’. It seems the purveyors of justice can turn an eye to injustice when it suits them.

Yes your honour.

lus ad bellum its a while since i have heard the utter drivel you have just wrote and to think of all the crap judgements being handed down in this country and these pillars get paid this kind of money for expense ,no value for money here.

@Dermot Purcell. Thanks for the insult. Perhaps you’d like to back up your comment with something called facts. The article shows figures. Your calling me a liar when its an absolute fact what I have written. Ask the Gardai who have to attend a 2am court opening for security, ask the charities they help out in the evenings & weekends. I’m not here to place these people on pedestals, I disagree with many decisions made in many courts. If I was ordered to do put them on pedestals I’d refuse. I’m making a comment from facts I know to be true. If you don’t know the brilliant and selfless work of judges like Peter Kelly, from the Childrens Court to the Commerical to the charities he helps with no fanfair or pay educate yourself before commenting. From the figures above a Supreme Court Judge costs a coffee a day. Fact. Got a question, ask it. Want to make a pointless unsubstantiated comment, continue.

Going by the information in the above article 1.674 Millon divided by 146 Judges,
equals €11,465 per judge per year.
Really in the times we are in, why should they get an allowance at all?
Are their wages not high enough?

Here is what I know about judges. Court sittings run from 10 – 12 and then 2 – 4, if you’re lucky. The judge is of course driven to and from court by his own personal assistant. Doesn’t sound too hard yet? It gets better. There is no Friday afternoon sittings so they can start the weekend early. Whoopee. As for the guards waking a judge in the middle of the night for a special sitting, give me a break. I know a lot of criminals but I’ve never heard of any of them going to court at two in the morning. They are usually left in a cell till the morning. That suits everyone, doesn’t it. Well done to judge Kelly for his charity work, but me and thousands ran the marathon for charity and I didn’t see too many judges breaking sweat there. You seem to be making assumptions through your knowledge of one judge, but I think the facts are clear. The overpaid judiciary,(not all of them), have shamed their institution by this squalid behaviour and I think the country deserves better.

You obviously don’t know a lot about judges then! Own driver nonsense. Not the ones I see every day have a driver. Those hours you mention are complete bs. I personally think judges have a damn hard job and I for one wouldn’t like to have to make decisions like some of them have to.

Oh and another thing. Just because you haven’t heard of special court sittings doesn’t mean they don’t take place. Your drivel about Friday afternoon and the court siting hours are also complete bs.

You think they have a hard job making decisions, I don’t. You think I’m talking bs about judges drivers. Go down to the courts and see for yourself. Judges are members of the pampered elite. Good wages, good holidays, brilliant pensions and untouchable jobs. Not a bad result for a few years study at daddies expense, is it?

@John Fagan You started your comment with “here is what I know about judges” & honestly (and no offence) proved that you don’t know too much about what goes on or why. Couple of points in bullet point so issues can’t get messy and crossed up (not to appears attacking).
1: Not all judges have drivers. However many need protection from gangland figures, or just drunken or pissed off individuals. The Garda or PA isn’t your average joe but can handle themselves.
2: 10-12 noon & 2pm-4pm sittings. Thats what the public see. Think of it like flight time for a pilot. Its up front, its visual but you don’t do it without knowing the flight plan & contingencies. Judges, like counsel, prep (or bloody should do) hard especially where someone is at risk (prison sentence) or children/family are in the background and may suffer if a certain type of ruling is handed down. That goes on before and after the above times. I’ve seen emergency court sittings go till 8pm. No moaning, just life.
3: As for your “give me a break” re 2am wake & sit. Prisoners don’t come to court at 2am, or 4am, or 6 unless its very necessary. The judge, the defendants counsel and states counsel do appear. These sittings often happen due to an Article 40 (claim of unconstitutional detention by an arm of the state) or for example where a parent refuses to permit a child to get emergency care and a court order is needed for the childs health/safety/life. There are countless other occasions & it simply reflects real life. We live 24/7, so do emergencies. Judges know this & just get on with it (can’t say they would be happy so don’t expect a smile at 2am)
4: I don’t know of any judges who run marathons. No offence to Peter Kelly J but think he may be too tired to handle it (sorry Judge) but many do a lot of charity work. They don’t shout about it though, some because they don’t think its right to take focus, others may feel (just my thoughts on this) it may be seen as bias. I’m sure many don’t do charity work either.
5: I don’t make excuses for poor judicial performance and this isn’t a statement that all judges are angels. I have my own opinion which is often the complete opposite of any particular judge & some who I may not like personally. Its why we have appeals and call it common law.

BTW honestly well done on your charity work. Its more people like you doing that we need but just because someone can’t run a marathon doesn’t mean they are not trying in some other way. I don’t run, I’m no saint but I give what I can to charities I agree with. I’m not the devil & neither are judges.

My reply, in bullets, so it doesn’t get messy;
(1) we are not living in Mafiosi country and to my knowledge, the targeting of judges by gangland figures is extremely rare, probably because there is no point when they can be simply replaced by another judge. As for being heckled by some drunks. Well, we all have to live with that problem but don’t all get company cars;
(2) court proceedings are notoriously late in starting because of judges appearing late. As for them working behind the scenes, any work a judge does they get handsomely paid for it. In their case the adage ‘time is money’ takes on spectacular meaning;
(3) the country has just voted for a new children’s constitution because judges weren’t passing orders of protection. You can quote the law all you want but that doesn’t mean it’s being enforced. Read the papers through your rose coloured specs. Everyday there is a story about children that the state have failed;
(4) I didn’t mean to imply that judges should be doing marathons,(as I think most people grasped). I was just saying that lots of the population take part in charitable activity and they don’t shout it from the rooftops either. It’s a fact of life. However, that doesn’t give them or anyone else the right to fleece the tax coffers. In fact, the upper classes have historically being expected to take part in some sort of philanthropy,(good for the soul and all that), while the lower classes do it out of a genuine desire to help people.
(5) thanks and g’nite.

John if you generalised anymore about a subject you already admitted you didn’t know much about you are likely to cause injury to yourself.
Did you have a bad experience in front of a judge or something. Sure they get paid well, they should. And some could do a better job than they do, and it needs reform. But seriously give it a break geez.

Oh and it’s been a while since I’ve seen kids going to school in actual rags, and if they are that might have more to do with parental neglect.
Oh and by the way, I’m self employed and find it almost impossible to make ends meet…yikes.

This is comical… 10-12 and 2-4, you do know judges don’t just show up and wing it right? For every hour they spend sitting in court they spend 3 reading and interpreting the law, reviewing the legal precedents, ensuring the legal compliance of every document presented or created surrounding the case, what can legally be presented as evidence and testimony and what can’t…

Oh dear Liam,
Don’t go posting sense when there’s a Journal rant on the go.

The problem is it’s tax payers money that is going to judges. We can’t afford endless expenses. I think it’s great when someone works hard. I think it’s great when someone makes something or grows something or discovers something. I don’t think it’s great when a few judges get paid extra subsistence on top of a massive salary. It’s just seems wrong. It’s not about jealousy or about me wanting money.

I’m self employed. I travel a lot in my work. I keep my petrol receipts, any receipts I receive buying safety equipment and any other costs I have. I then write these off against my tax bill at the end of the year.
Sometimes, my expense bill is quite high. I have to stay overnight in places.
If I couldn’t write these expenses off, I wouldn’t survive.

Here’s the thing.
I work alongside others in the same job. They work PAYE. they have the same expenses. They are paid in full by their employer. Who writes them off in their tax bill.

Your salary is your salary.
You should never have to pay out of your own salary simply to do your job.
Be that judges, nurses, salesmen/women, construction workers, and anyone else.
But that doesn’t stop a little ranting on the Journal.

Don’t be ridiculous Danny. People pay for themselves to get to work. You need to wear clothes to work don’t you. People pay for themselves all the time or work related things.
Maybe if no one got expenses we’d have a fairer system, a more transparent system, a better system.

Driving to you place of work is exempt.
If you have to drive during work, that is an expense.
If you have to wear safety equipment, that is an expense. This covers a uniform too.
Don’t let facts blind you for a good rant.
If you simply drive to work every day, sit/stand/walk at work, you won’t have any expenses.
Let me ask you, do you use any equipment of any kind during work? A computer? Tools? A machine of some description?
Why don’t you have to pay for these things? Surely they are things given to you to do your work? If you had to buy these things yourself, would you expect to do it out of your own pocket?
People see a headline like this and go off on a rant, without bothering to have one second of thought.
A salary is paid for the work you have done. You shouldn’t have to pay out of your own money, simply to do your job.

Spoton Jack.
A lot of them should quit and take on something a bit more challenging.

Have you forgotten a certain referendum where you voted to cut the judiciary’s pay? And it was cut.

In every developed democracy the judiciary are separate and unelected. It is essential that this is so since often the only thing protecting the citizen from injustice at the hands of the state is the court.

They are elected in some parts of America – it’s a disaster imo.