You are correct bandara boy,and that is why I am right.

But are you right Dale!?! You said above your friend physically accosted a member of the Gardai! So what’s your issue with Gardai, as part of all Emergency Services workers, being given extra protection under the law!?! Is it more to do with your views that your friend was a ‘professional’ and is above being arrested where the law is only to be obeyed by the peasants!??

Correct Louis Jacob,if it was a scroat it would be different,as it is my job to tell both apart,and furthermore,the scroat would be back doing the same within the hour,as they have nothing to offer,by way of compensation.Also the police have the SAME job of telling one from the other and in my mind the cop dealing with the matter had no doubt of what was going on.All I am saying is that the other services are there to fix what has happened,the guards are there to prevent what happens,and are geared and prepared for it.No need for the arrest,court or stress for the individual.For the scroats,well it means food and a bed,then back to Tara st to the gang.A never ending circle,and us taxpayers have to pay for it.what do you know anyway?

Nuffsaid,I didn’t say it was a friend,and I was the person having the altercation with him.Also I know the cop too,and knew he was angry,AND I if grabbed from behind,especially whist agitated will construe that as somebody assaulting me and lash out,as all people would when caught by surprise.It was a silly thing to be honest,not worthy of an arrest or court,and nothing did come from it,but who is to say it might not happen to you or your friend.

If you’re basing your views on a single subjective experience then it’s pretty loose anyway.

Also – how does Bandara’s post prove your situation right in any way?

So Dale you don’t actually know if he went to court or if he just got a caution would that be right?

@ Dale. Are you going to watch ‘What Richard Did’ open in all cinemas from today?

@dale please crawl back under your rock until you have a valid point. This ‘decent’ bloke YOU were having an altercation with. Didn’t end up in court or a fine or a conviction? Well then how does that result in someone being wrongly convicted if an assault and subsequently being imprisoned for assaulting an emergency worker. See the thing is he probably wasn’t arrested for assault. He was probably only arrested for public order because to be honest, no one gets prosecuted for assaulting a Garda unless there’s a proper injury to stand beside. It’s just not worth the hassle.

Well said, Id love to hear a justification from whatever f***in idiots voted no above

Assault under Irish law specifically includes pushing someone… 5 Years?

Its really quite simple. You don’t ever-EVER strike another human being. Or am I just plain nuts? Emergency services employees are working to save people’s lives. Anyone touches them , f**k them-lock em up.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=389579891112839&set=a.166758566728307.40267.164905970246900&type=1&theater

I didn’t vote no but I was tempted to. For firemen and paramedics it seems quite reasonable but for the gardaí I’m not too sure. Their job is to essentially get into physical altercations. I’m not saying they should expect to be assaulted (hence why I voted yes) but many people don’t react well to getting arrested and while struggling may unintentionally “assault” a garda (you may say this is nonsense but I’m just putting it down as a possibility). This also brings up the question of what constitutes assault? If some drunk idiot gives a garda a light kick up the arse should he get five years in prison!? Then there’s the possibility that the gardaí might abuse this e.g. they don’t like you so they make it look like they were assaulted and then say it was you! Finally, there’s the idea that they are somehow better than the rest of society. If I get assaulted is it not just as serious a crime? Why not mandatory sentences for everyone convicted of assault? However, I would say that assaulting emergency workers may put others at risk because you are preventing them from carrying out their jobs so it is not necessarily the same.

My yes is with the caveat that the wording would have to be right.

Not that the individual is better than everyone else, but attacks on these workers may hinder people being saved from dangerous situations!! Firemen and woman regularly he assaulted in certain areas and eventually without a strong deterrent like this they may stop serving certain areas,putting innocent people at risk!

I said that Brendan. I was just playing devil’s advocate.

i think it’s a shame that you accept it as the norm that Gardaí should have to put up with being assaulted as par for the course. Why should it be the norm? Why should a fella get off on an assault because he didn’t appreciate being arrested? Why should a Garda be expected to break up a fight when he is given no protection should the fighters turn on him? That’s when Gardaí need the protection.

I think five years is too high though. 6 months minimum would be fairer.

@ Sean Beag

Keep in mid that part of that 5 years will be cut due to parole/good behaviour etc.
So if someone is REALLY in for 5 years full, I’d say they more than likely deserve it.
I’m glad to see this move in new laws being made.

I disagree, it should be a severe punishment to ensure compliance.

Totally agree and It might be an idea if they were sent into the more dangerous fires first to check for any kind of poisonous gases… like canaries in a coal mine.

“Always nice to know your employer (the government) has your back…..and isn’t increasing your workload to dangerous levels, making every cut imaginable, leaving you with less and less take home pay and to top it off wont convict someone who attacks you.”-
Indeed! Why are we putting up with it? Why are the people in charge bending over to the pressure, instead of standing up for their employees?

Tony me Aul pal, are u surprised?

Tell that to the personnel of the fire services who are targeted when they answer a call to something like a bonfire at halloween or to deal with injured people at a ‘protest’ and are then assaulted by other protesters. The simple fact of the matter is that no one, no matter what capacity they are working in should have to go to work facing the risk of assault. If a shop worker or bar worker is attacked during the performance of their duty society is rightly disgusted by the act. However people working in the emergency services or in hospitals are regularly exposed to abuse and even assault when they carry out their jobs and some people have now adopted the attitude that ‘they knew what they were letting themselves in for when they joined up”

In my opinion an attack on any emergency service or the Gardai should be seen as an attack on society and treated as such.

Since when are prison officers and nurses “emergency services”? Are you really that dim?

Perhaps nurses who work in an accident & EMERGENCY department Sean?

Who are indeed covered.

Henry, in the spirit of being helpful and not resorting to childishness here is the bill which outlines those who are covered:
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2012/6212/b6212d.pdf

Tomy – read section 1 – nurses are not included – it’s ambulance services only, firemen and gardai.

“emergency worker” means:
15 (a) any member of the Garda Síochána as provided for in the
Garda Síochána Act 2005;
(b) any employee of the Health Service Executive providing
an ambulance service for the transportation of seriously
ill people to hospital or between hospitals;
20 (c) any employee of a private ambulance transport service
providing an ambulance service for the transportation of
seriously ill people to hospital or between hospitals;
(d) any member of the Civil Defence Ambulance Corps;
(e) any employee of a Local Authority established under the
25 Local Government Act 2001 and who are members of a
fire crew travelling to or from the scene of a fire;
(f) any medical practitioner or nurse providing medical care
in the Accident and Emergency ward of a public or
private hospital;

Sean – try reading what you have posted – especially part (f) there. You may not have noticed in your rush to try to put your thumb up to your nose and say “na na nanana” that nurses working in A&E are indeed included.

Bollocks…. fair enough. haha.

Would they not be covered under (f)? That bit that mentions nurses?

@ Sean Herbert

Fail of the week right there fella, great to see somebody put in their place like that.

That’s your fail of the week? Slow week, Gerard?

Please stop embarrassing yourself young man. The fact that you have used your photo and what would appear to be a real name would indicate that you are not trolling. That would then make me believe that you either can’t read properly (your own post) or that you are, indeed as you have called somebody else here, dim. Now don’t come back here with some schoolyard quip which I’m sure will deeply hurt my feelings. Take my advice young fella, just bow out graciously.

A quick google on convictions for assault in Ireland.. a Garda being convicted of assault was given 4 months suspended, but also faces the possibility of loss of job. Did you know you can punch a taxi driver in the face and only receive a 800 euro fine.

Where will we put all these assaulters of emergency workers?
A crude costing based on 800 convictions per year at lets say 50,000 euro per head per annum…shit is that 4 Million or 40 Million ?

What makes you think they are 800 different people assaulting them? Often one person can be responsable for multiple assaults on multiple occasions.

Anyway, you must be using google wrong. That case in Waterford had minimum two year prison sentences for the Gardaí involved.

@Paul – there would be less assaults if the penalties were stiffer. So do the maths.

There are over 2 million people incarcerated in the United States, in some cases in for life under the ’3 strikes and you’re out’ rules.

It’s one of the most penal judicial systems in the world; how deterred is crime in the US?

Because, Ronan, there’d be even more crime if there were less criminals in prison.

Meant to read all serious assaults in last bit. Dame iPod and it not scrolling as I write.

Why do people always hate the Gardai? There are a few who abuse power in EVERY profession. I’ve never met a Garda who was anything but calm, measured and sound. Just wanted to add some support, as it seems most here want to Garda-bash.

Protests are a completely different issue. The Gardai should not be covered under this law.

hippy, non hipy, scanger, career criminal, fella too drunk to know, all the same

Hit a Guard/fireman/paramedic

Do time.

End of.

With the Gardai the issue isn’t as cut and dry as with the rest of the emergency services.

Since when is protest synonomous with assult? The right to protest does not mean you can go out and physically attack who ever you want.

@joy herron – try telling that to the swp and the other left wing “solidarity” groups

Of course it doesn’t, but the law could be manipulated to make it easy to lock up protesters under false pretences.

Paul – can you outline in what situation you think it would be okay to assault a member of the Gardai?

I’m all for legitimate protest but violence at such protests does little.

@ Paul Mallon
Gardai shouldn’t be covered under this law!?! They’re the first group going on the list of those needing protecting! 800 reported assaults on Garda members last year! They’re always the most at risk of all Emergency services because they can arrest & thus remove you of your liberty (I’m not talking about court sentence / prison here!) and because of this people resist arrest & think it’s perfectly okay to head-butt a Garda to aid their escape! Is this okay!?! What do you work as yourself Paul!?! Any fear of being head-butted at 4:00am on a Sunday morning!??

Gardai beat the shit out of members of the public frequently enough, often excessively and without justification. The idea that they get this all-encompassing protection sounds extremely dubious. A Guard need no proof of assault except his word, and now his word will carry a 5 year jail sentence? Do you trust the Gardai that much?

Consider this; drunk gets arrested and gets a hiding from a few guards. If you don’t believe this happens nightly then you’re living on another planet. The drunk threatens to go to the police ombudsman, but is told if he does he’ll be done for assault with a mandatory 5-year jail sentence. If it’s his word against theirs, he goes to jail and to guards are acquitted. Obviously, he’ll drop his complaint. It’s a carte blanche for the guards. Don’t think the police are above this.

Court cases are usually adjourned pending the outcome of the Garda Ombudsman’s investigation so can’t see how your comment makes sense! If the Gardai breached discipline then this will have a bearing on the Court proceedings!

@Nuff said – I’m not saying the Gardai don’t need some sort of attitional protection, I’m saying as they have the ability to go on the offensive then this isn’t as clear cut as it is with the fire or ambulance services.
I agree with JayK, it could easily be manipulated by the Gardai should they feel the need.
On the other hand, I think all Gardai should have guns, I think it’s a bit silly they they’re working without them.

My thoughts exactly.

Being in a protest isnt a licence to attack gardai. If the situation gets rough then remove yourself from it. Simple. In any case, when is the last time you saw someone convicted of assaulting a Garda in a protest?

In actual fact very few people are prosecuted for it. Most are charged with public order offences. When a person is charged with assaulting a Garda it usually means the Garda has received an injury

I’m not aware of any obligation to assault someone when your protesting?

I think you missed the point that not all gardai are the most honest folks.

The point is that it’s open to abuse, that someone could be thrown in jail for a minimum sentence on the say-so of a Garda. In cases where a Garda is assaulted, and someone is convicted, it is typically on the say so of a Garda. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that.

What I am saying is that it could be used as a political tool to suppress dissent in the future. Imagine if we defaulted, left the euro and returned to the punt. Imagine then that the value in your bank account is halved, and the price of food and petrol has doubled as a result. You’re a public employee and the value of your pay has halved overnight. You stand at the gates of the Dáil with 20,000 others demanding to know why your quality of life has degraded while bondbolders were paid for the previous 5 years.

A line of young, nervous Gardaí are being verbally thrashed by anarchists to your left. You don’t see what happens but all of a sudden there’s a scrap and the Gardaí are following their training and charging to maintain their perimeter. You’re trampled/punched/whatever, and all you were doing was conducting a peaceful protest. You end up in plastic handcuffs even though you had nothing to do with the scuffle.

There are 100 arrests, and a Garda, through no fault of their own (it was mental down there), has wrongly fingered you for an assault on an officer, mixing you up with another person with the same build and brown hair as you.

Do you want the judge to be able to consider the mitigating circumstances, or do you want him to have no choice but to impose a mandatory minimum sentence?

Your example doesn’t make sense. If a person is found guilty then why would a judge accept the “I didn’t do it” excuse in mitigation? The issue of guilt and the issue of sentencing are not related.

See this is where you need to get your facts straight…. No Garda can decide to prosecute someone for assaulting a Garda. It’s under the direction of their superiors and ultimately the DPP. So what I’m trying to say is there is a system in place to root out the ‘rogue’ Gardai who want to prosecute these peaceful protesters. I’m sorry if I sound sceptical but I just think the current legislation is a joke. Read in the paper this week a chap gets a €250 fine for breaking a Garda’s nose. Is that fair? Is it f£$k!

because emergency services are in the business of saving lives and put themselves at risk in their job.
this is not a threat that exists in the overwhelming majority of other jobs.

@Tomy. Isn’t the bill aimed solely at emergency workers or have I read it wrong?

It lists Gardai among the scope of those covered

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2012/6212/b6212d.pdf

and the Gardai represents; “the overwhelming majority of other jobs” I take it?

I don’t know where you’re getting that interpretation from Louis – I’m assuming there’s some sarcasm in there but not sure what your point is.

Perhaps it’s because of my own mix up – My reply with the link to the proposed bill and my reference to Gardai was intended for another post specifically asking about if Gardai would be covered by the bill. Though for the life of me I can’t find the post I intended to reply to.

@Tomy- emergency workers put themselves on the line to help people in emergencies, which may put them into dangerous situations, They do not put themselves on the line to get beat on by someone too drunk, or loutish or ignorant or whatever, to restrain themselves

I know that, and never denied it – read the post above. I am not advocating anything different to the scope provided for in the proposed bill.

Yeah and aren’t they doing a great job? Like that guy who got no prison time for abusing his niece because the judge believed the shame of it would be punishment enough.

Dale,

Unfortunately there will always be cases like that, but the vast majority is intentional

Arrest doesn’t automatically mean he’ll be convicted. He still gets his day in court and you would get the opportunity to testify as a witness to the ‘assault’.

A single case like this is unacceptable no matter how you cut it and in court it’s this guy’s word against the guard’s.

” a working professional person with drink on him,and definitely not a person deserving a sentence in prison” Ah yes Dale, if he was a scovee, he would have deserved everything he got. Anyone going to see ‘What Richard did” today b.t.w.?

A drink loud idiot lashes out at somebody, and you think he was wrongly arrested.

The definition of assault under the law includes attempts like that even if no actual contact is made. In fact, even shouting at someone can be considered an assault under the legislation.

And did that guy get charged and convicted of assaulting a Garda or did he get a public order fine?

@ Brian – yeah, I hate those damn “drink louds”.

@sean someone’s after hijacking your profile and putting up an embarrassing photo of some eejit wearing sunglasses. Change it quick!

Is that it, Brian? Sunglasses? That’s all you got? Move on, amateur…

Cat got your tongue Sean? Nothing to back up your talk?

And in proving you’re really dumb, you ask if the cat got my tongue…. after I posted 2 replies. Well done, Brian.

I thought you were sharper than that Sean. Check your Facebook.

You wouldn’t want a stiffer sentence after the revolution? Is that it?

He’s referring to a Youtube video where a young scanger gets his just deserveds from a (chef?) he tried to attack.

Do you have a search term to find that video Colm?

The Youtube is “Talbot Street Corner Leave it out”

Thanks Kitty