they cant……..its all shite, have they asked…..”did you pay your car tax?………did you pay your tv licence??…..did you pay your refuse charges?….did you pay your income tax?, NO they did”nt because they are only doing ADMIN for the VEC not deciding who gets the grant…….someone up high is pulling the strings on this!!!!

That’s what I thought. Do they not get a salary to do their job? Why do they think they should get a bonus for doing what they were employed to do?

What do you think these people should be paid, just out of curiosity?

shockingly depressing figures that,im sure Clare county council made no mention of this with there bullyboy tactics

Good point Alan. The salaries dont seem that excessive to me??? These are obviously people with high levels of qualifications and experience. Or maybe you believe that everyone should earn 30k Rommel…So then the ones that excel in school , in business in life can be held back becasue a huge cohort of people just aint bothered…

I would say cut them by 20% and the same across the other 34 councils for starters. Local government needs total reform across the board.
If Phil Hogan applied one tenth of the enthusiasm he has for threatening and bullying the soft targets, to reform of local government I’d have some respect for him.
Could be a long wait….

Cut people wages by 20% just like that…Its easy right…. give me strength…

I was looking for these figure Rommel, fair play. How can people not feel robbed paying the €100? Yet if we don’t we could be criminals!??? I’m baffled!

OK Declan try this one,
The Dublin city librarian earns more than the prime minister of Spain at €106,900.
Value for money?

Declan,
If you want more indepth reports ask Hogan. He’s sitting on them.

Rommel it all depends on what the persons role is and what the equivalent position in the private sector would pay…
Just for the record….A librarian in Dublin is not getting that figure. Pehaps the head of all the whole area is….
The way i see if people earn good money, by and large its because they are experinced, educated go getters who go the extra mile in their Job….
These are the people who make jobs and will drive the recovery of the state…It certainly wont be you and the rest of the whinge brigade on here.

We should hire you as a recruiter in my company… I’d love to see you try and find a senior qualified vet or a post graduate qualified county manager with a minimum of 10-20 years who will work for €40K… hit me up mate we could really use your abilty…

I think I can negociate you a couple of million for every suitable candidate you deliver that lasts a year(no basic though)

Well Alan they certainly shouldn’t be earning far in excess of the Presidents of Indonesia, Israel, South Korea and Russia to name but a few. No county manager should be earning anywhere near €100k pa when the country is bankrupt and especially not one in a county with such a small population.

People are refusing to pay Clare Co.Co. And Clare Co.Co. Are in return refusing to pay them. Very simple, if you do not put in the pot you are not allowed to take from it. A Council with Balls, that’s a first !

if the students are over 18 then they’re not the parents responsibility. They are their own people and so this shouldn’t apply to them.

@Paul Mallon, whilst the student may be of the legal age to be considered seperate from the parents, in this case it is where the student is financially dependant upon his/her parents. Also, in applying for a grant one must state that you are tax compliant.

Much cheaper to refuse the grant……brilliant idea Clare County Council.

The household charge is 1 tax which is currently ?100. Most people working pay multiples of it weekly. Even those who are unemployed pay indirect taxes on everything they purchase.
The idea that people who can’t afford, or refuse (as a form of protest) to pay the charge pay no tax and therefore don’t deserve a college grant is nonsense. Money for college grants comes from general taxation not the household charge. Tax that EVERYONE pays.
If I break the laws then there is a system in place to punish me. Clare co. co. have no place in this and are playing a dangerous game on behalf of the government. You can almost feel that we are at a tipping point……

Imagine Irish people had a protest, LOL

I call BS on this. Why should I be bled dry to finance people who won’t pay a penny to support the community?

@Paul, to get the grant you must actually provide your parents earnings in the previous year.

They’re discussing a Children’s Rights Referendum, while at the same time denying children access to their education because only those who’s parent have the means to do so could afford to pay this charge. Disgusting. I’d like to know who made the decision to get parents to pay this tax by exploiting their children, will that be in the referendum?

It costs the council €100,000 a year to process grant applications. So what non-payers want is for others to pay so their application for grants for their children are processed. Freeloading is a word which springs to mind.

Hi Paddy,

About that €100,000. Where did it come from before the household tax was introduced?

By that logic everyone should get the grant if we don’t access by family income as a whole. The whole grant scheme is a labour ploy.. it needs to be a sliding scale to be fair and a graduate tax.

The student applies, but if they are living at home they are assessed by the parent’s income in the previous full tax year. We treat the household as a unit for assessing benefits across the board, and I don’t see why this should be any different.

On the issue of paying tax, it seems only right, to me, that people should show tax compliance to avail of any benefits. This is a tad unfair, however, given the fact that the student is tax compliant more than likely.

I’d rather see some benefit for the actual homeowner withheld instead.

@Rónán O’Suilleabháin
On the issue of paying tax, it seems only right, to me, that people should show tax compliance to avail of any benefits

I largely agree with you but I wonder if there is a legal basis for what Clare Co. Co. are doing or is it just an ad hoc administrative measure?

Err… Where does that leave helping students based on the income of their parents?

While I agree this is wrong, the parent-student link is well established.

Simian they count the parents income because the students are financial independents.
But you can’t hold one adult responsible for another adult breaking the law. Whether they’re related or not.

Sorry I meant to say financial dependants.

and I don’t pay a tv licence either because that is corporate thievery so to hell with it. TV3 are a better station and charge no licence. I paid it for years like a fool but no more. For what. I don’t ever watch rte,

You’re right there Christopher. We should all just pay the taxes we think are fair and only obey the laws we agree with. People who think income tax is too high should only pay as much as they think is fair and evade the rest. I’m not unemployed so why should I pay for those who are?
And if the Spar is charging too much for a Turkish Delight, well screw them, thats not fair, more corporate thievery – just stick it in your pocket.

This democracy business is a nonsense – why should I live by the rules of the majority? Everyone should be able to just do their own thing and pick their own individual laws. Civilization, me arse!.

And of course, burn the bondholders!

Gagsy you are polarising this argument into an issue where I am picking and choosing based on my own standards which is false and wrong. I am choosing not to pay based on the fact that the household charge is UNFAIr because a millionaire pays €100 and a person unemployed pays €100 euro. That is wrong and the tv licence is the same and takes no account of a persons means to be able to pay. That is my reason for not paying and taking a stand on this so please don’t corrupt my premise that these are unjust charges.

and yes BURN THE BONDHOLDERS. you got it in one. See. There’s hope for you after all.

Brilliant idea!

Christopher your argument could be applied by anyone to any tax or law.
Just because you decree that the household charge is UNFAIR and put it in capitals, is that enough?

I think PAYE is too high and UNFAIR .
I think Turkish Delights are TOO EXPENSIVE.

100% agree with you Gagsy 99, on all of your points – so many people commenting here think that if they put things in capitals it automatically makes their argument valid. Where is the logic? If you have to put words in capital letters your point is probably not worth saying. Like an English-speaking tourist in Spain shouting at a local in English instead of learning a few Spanish phrases.

On your other point – this government was voted in by the majority, everyone of course won’t like their policies, but the majority have spoken. If you want to claim extra revenue from the State then pay your way, otherwise, leave the country!

You think our taxes and way of life are bad? Try Germany for tax and try Syria for a way of life!

@Gaggsy, yeah you’re pretty much spot on, if you think a law is unfair you should refuse to obey itpublicly, and explain your reasons, this is called civil disobedience and is a cornerstone of democracy. If you think Turkish delight is too expensive don’t buy it. If you think refusing to comply with draconian exploitative laws is comparable to stealing luxury items you don’t fancy paying for, your opinion is worthless and you should wait until you’ve some clue what you’re talking about before commenting.

Ah Daniel, if everyone had to wait until they had some clue what they were talking about before commenting there’d only be half the traffic on this site.

I love the certainty with which you state your own opinion as if its a fact but dismiss an opposing opinion as worthless.
That civil disobedience is a cornerstone of democracy is not a fact – it may be a concept with some arguable merit but it is not a fact..

Jack Eagle
They can’t include the Septic Tank Charge because it is a Registration fee and not a charge or tax. Furthermore there is still time left to pay same and thus not overdue!
I really believe that this is a clever move by Clare County Council and applaud them for their innovation.
For this who believe the Authority is breaking the law……oops I think it may just be yourself if your HHC is still unpaid.
I must also confess to having a very substantial heaving of shoulders this morning when I first saw this news and the heaving came from outright laughter. This is one of the better days on the Journal!

I never said the Septic tank charge was a tax, I said it was the law the very same as the Household charge is the law, just like the TV License. I disagree about the Household charge being a tax, it is a registration fee too. If Clare Co. Co. are checking that people are tax compliant, well then that is a different story and therefore they should be seeking tax clearance certificates from the student’s family.

Mick, I know your a great fan of law and order so can you clarify if as one professor of law has already said that Clare Co. Council withholding or slowing down the processing of student grants could be illegal you would agree that the maximum sanction should be applied to the officials who came up with this idea?

The HHC is a registration fee too if that is the way you want to go . They told us that Property tax will be introduced next year . They just want your details . They want your name on a list ….

Its just another sneaky trick thought up by some over paid civil servant to try to force people to register.

Boom!!! Their gona mess this up regardless cos it’s a hasty stupid decision.. Students need this money!! The application forms hav been filled out with no question of ‘have you payed th HHC??’ if it was a requirement then it should hav been shown.. Clare co co hired a private company to distribute these letters, have an amazing office building, had 4guards on the door today, another 2 in undercover car and then another squad driving around… Priority needs to go to stopping waste not punishing the struggling..!

Who is paying for that security . No doubt it’s
Coming out of their budget, another waste of money.

Moe,I paid and I got a receipt,I paid on line not sure about other methods,it would be very strange if a receipt of payment was not given.

Great ideas Rommel. They should do all of that…Or maybe you think people should not have to pay any of that….Pathetic is exactly right!!

No I don’t think people should not pay any of that. I have always paid my taxes and continue to do so. However a bondholder tax on the family home is a step too far.
I hope Healy- Eames is up to date btw!

I could care less about Mrs Healy Eames….God..if you suggest anything proactical your accused of being FG or a blueshirt…. Its not about bondholders….its becasue we dont generate enough tax as country to pay for our services and if evey cent of bank debt was written off we would still be up the creek becasue guess what Rommell…..We dont take in enough taxes to run the country…. Please stop making it always about bond holders….

We DO generate enough tax to pay for all our services, which, by the way, are not exactly up to par to begin with. The cutbacks and extra “taxes” are meant to fill the hole left in the state’s coffers by the redundant strategy of bailing out the banks.

Wrong again Joost

Ahh Jim,

Don’t be pulling that out of your rear end now.

“Rich people don’t get college grants.” If only that were true.

Agreed. It ranks up there with shatter going after wedding rings. Theres no depths this morally bankrupt debt collection agency of a government will not hit. The fact that they’re not even our debts is even more criminal.

As long as the unions are bought off they won’t bring their members on to the streets one only has to look at the last big p a y e marches that only worked because of union participation.

Exactly John. I have always wondered why the Unions won’t organise march protests but now I know why. They are are not threatened. They are comfortable and Croke Park is the price that buys their silence.

This is gettin out of hand, why should a generation who had nothing to do with the incurred costs built up by an inept government be made to pay this. They already pay serious amounts on fees, and those that dont and apply for the grant do so because their parents cant afford the costs, this is going to put more pressure on parents and students alike, even more for leaving cert students to come, and then people wonder why students are leaving the country when they get their degree, its because they cant live here anymore, they cant afford to, this is going to get worse and it is about time people started to say no, law or no law taking money from those trying to educate themselves to have some sort of sustainable life is wrong, also when you think of the tax they will have to pay if they do get work here the tax will be paid anyway, they dont own the digs they will be in either, what are they gonna do next tax jr infants starting school!

Well said Joseph . Well said .

Declan Cotter
You suggest the Aine decides whether we increase our taxes or roll back our services. It’s not her decision Declan. That is decided in Dail Eireann by our elected representatives who have already levied this tax called the Household Charge. It’s not a question of whether it’s popular or unpopular, liked or disliked. It’s the law and it must be paid .
I remember the 800,000 bogus non resident accounts and find it interesting that we have the same number of people deciding to break the law with respect to the current charge.
What is different on this occasion is the public flaunting of defiance against the State. This makes the decision to have the Revenu collect the Property tax an enlightened one.
Fair play to Clare County Council for their innovation and ability to withstand the bully boy tax evaders. In MilltownMalbay all those years ago there were some three thousand fraudulent bank accounts.
Why should we lawful taxpayers fund the college expenses of families that evade taxes that fund local services. Way to go Clare Count Council

Mick, I was not being literal. The point i was making is that we need to cut services or generate new taxes and that is not a nice thing for anyone to do…

“Mick Collins” with his “obey the State” mantra. Ironic, what?

Hey Mick Collins. Should we follow the law even when it is unjust?
Should we follow a statute (which the HH Tax is) even when it is unjust?
I’m sorry, but the HH Tax is not a tax, but a statute, and to force its payment is illegal.

I hope that if the students organise , they will have the support of us all with them. I for one will stand with them .
I do not take being intimidated easy and will stand up to the BULLIES. I am done being afraid and I am done running away . I will not register I will not pay .

Here here Barry , well said.

I will support student too because they are clearly an easy target now for this lot in power.

Barry.
It’s an honour to be a teacher?
It’s an honour to be a nurse?
Why would they need to be paid…….that’s the logic of what you have just said and at the same time you pick and choose which laws you are going to observe?

Who do teachers, nurses represent Mick? by chance, are you a counciller??
Do I pick & choose the laws I’m going to obay, no I don’t. I’ll pay it, as soon as money stops being waisted by councils & councillers. Please do not drag this comment into the public sector agruement. Councillers are elected by the public (in most cases) to represent. Nurses, teachers, fire fighters, gardai….all protect and serve the public, not represent (& do a fine job at that).

I paid the HHC and it’s bad enough that I’m subsidising the services you get from the state, I’m paying for your brats to go to college too. College is not a right, it’s a service that needs to be paid for.

It seems to me that those who cry loudest seem to be the same parasites who contribute least.

The country benefits from a skilled tax paying workforce, hence the grants Paul. My tax, your tax goes on much much worse items daily than college grants. My brat is far from that stage in life but I hope to be well able to fund the brats education.

Which sort.

Our overall tax levels are low to medium per european standards for the level of service we get. Thing is we dont make that much money anymore so either we pay more tax or we roll back on our services and social welfare…You decide Aine..

Declan punishing the students of today is just not the way to do it! Thing is we’re well ware of the challenges facing this country which in reality has impacted on services & will continue to do so but cheap ploys to generate extra income and to punish students is not the way to do it..

Aine, we have one the highest rates of 3rd level attendance in the world. In the UK or US for example students or parents have to pay vast sums to get the advantage of a education.

Aine, if you qualify for a full non adjacent grant it’s over 3000 euro ands your exempt from paying registration fees,the house hold charge is only a fraction of what the state is paying out for a students education.no matter what way you look at it house hold charge or property tax you are still in the black,if your a student going to third level the state will be investing large amounts of money on you before you pay a single cent in direct tax,and there is no obligation to pay any of it back.i would prefer a system where each adult is assessed individually ,but that individually would have to be responsible for the cost of their own education.the dept of education should present the invoice of the cost of education at the end of each term to each student.aand maybe students can start making the link between taxation and services.

they are 100% correct..

This IS illegal, coincidentally, according to national and EU law.

“I don’t know” is a perfectly legitimate response to this and most poll questions posted by thejournal.ie. In fact, an “I don’t know” answer is probably preferable to the knee jerk reactions that can be seen on this page, suggesting as it does that the respondents are thinking through many issues here (household tax/student grants/dependents/role of councils/government incompetence etc. etc.) and a yes or no answer is simply not adequate.

Fair enough.
One hundred Euro please!

No worries Mick. Any chance of a receipt for that hundred Euro?

I think you might need to grow a back bone before you stand up, otherwise you would be slumped over.

Eileen
I don’t know where you’re coming from!

It’s not a black and white issue, that’s why people vote “I don’t know”.

If parents cannot pay the household charge, then it is brutally unfair to deny their children grant aid to go to college and improve their opportunities in life.

If parents can pay, but decide against paying, then they are being somewhat hypocritical, as they refuse to contribute to the public purse, but then expect to benefit from it.

As others have pointed out, not paying the household charge should be dealt with using proper legal channels, not bully boy tactics.

However, those who have paid the household charge probably feel that others are getting an unfair advantage if they can get a grant without paying their contribution. Everyone seems to agree that the legal route, should it come to it will be a very long and contrived process. The argument then is that this act “short circuits” the process, forcing people to pay in a more timely manner.

My own opinion is that it is unfair to punish the children at any rate. It’s ironic that the child of a non-paying parent (who refuses to pay) may well be in disagreement with their parents about the charge, and yet as they have no control over the situation, they are punished anyway.

I voted yes !!

Who says education is a ‘right’ !
Its not, its a privilage and needs to be paid for.
The cushioned celtic cubs don’t know what life is really like. I funded my own way through college, with a loan from my parents which I repaid.

This nonsense about not paying a TV licence or Household charge and then saying you are law-abiding is ridiculous

I paid my way through college with a JOB and had no free time to speak of.

How “cushy” it was for you to get a loan off your parents who were obviously getting a kick back from the Celtic tiger and passing it on to you.

And you vote yes and don’t even address the issue. It’s people being penalised for their parents decision. Which is fundamentally wrong.

This is not about students homes, its about the government bullying & blackmailing parents (homeowners) of students who are entitled to grants,but are refusing to hand over grant money to parents who haven’t paid household charge. its total blackmail, people shouldn’t put up with it.

Poll says it all. government trying to scam the people, its not acceptable.

The only joined up thinking is that they’re using the Home Tax to bail out the banks.

That’s the long and short of it

Rubbish Kerron…Please stop pedling that bull… The household charge is to help with the current deficet in the country… Nothing to do with banks…. We spend more than we earn as country so we either cut services or pay more tax. You decide!

Not true Mick the house hold charge is required to provide the funding hole caused by paying off the yearly €3.1 billion interest on the Anglo bailout. That €3.1 billion is coming from our taxes and our pockets. Already. double taxation.

Thats quite simply not true Kerry.

Actually Declan, time to grow some liathroidi and pull your head from the sand, it quite simply is true.

The only joined up part of this is that the councils are being made take the cuts imposed on them by central government (funnily the same amount as they want to get from the HHC)from our pockets.. so if u think its not to bail out banks… think again.

And what about students who are in rental accommodation or those who are abroad? It doesn’t say anything about withholding the grant, only prioritising those who have paid the HHC.

Lets say hypothetically I living in Rotterdam with my mother living in rental accommodation, should be passed over until everyone who paid the HHC has received their grant. Even if that means I have no money to pay my tuition and could possibly lose my place. That is petty, and we should expect our state institutions to behave more like state institutions and less like 4 year olds who had a cookie taken from them.

Well said Brid
When you look at the above attacks on myself you have to wonder how a Society can function with these ideas around.! I pay a one hundred Euro tax lawfully imposed on me and I am a “knob” or some other filthy manifestation of a law abiding citizen.
These attacks come from the active members of the ULA and Sinn Fein who solemnly undertake to defend our Democracy and the incite citizens to become lawbreakers.
These are the same degenerates who hope to be able to form a Government at some not too distant point.
They shouldn’t be allowed to enter a Hall of Democracy like Dail Eireann until they vow to honour its democratic decisions and thus observe their Constitutional imperative.

Totally agree. While I think Clare county council have done this in a very under handed way, it does make sense. You can’t have your cake and eat it

@ Mick I am not a member of any of the parties or organisations you mentioned and I have always and still am a law abiding citizen so demonizing those who refuse to pay on a point fairness will not work. I have paid over an above my taxes living and working in this state all my life and have NO criminal records and would actually be seen by my neighbours as a good person who would do a favour as I have done for many of my neighbours. Do you really think you are an example of what is a law abiding citizen with Brid? There are thousands millions even of law abiding citizens in this country proud to resist these unfair charges so please do not demonize us according to your own self righteous standards. Thank You.

these college students are for the majority not home owners they are holding a gun to the heads of our future work force, possibly holding them back from their right to an education and narrowing Their prospects over a tax that doesnt even apply to them yet.

Jason if you live in Rotterdam then there is no point in applying for a grant cause you ain’t going to get one . if your mam does live in rented the household tax question does not arise

@ Jerry,

I’d do my research if I were you, I’ve been receiving the student grant for the past 2 years while living in Rotterdam and the county council are aware of this. It is fully within the rules and regulations.

And rental homes do count. You need to be able to prove you paid the HHC, otherwise you will face delays. So you need to get proof of payment or proof of exemption which in itself is a significant delay.

@Mick Collins

To be fair to you Mick,you’re a knob whether you paid the household charge or not.

YES.

Damien, you’re wrong! You do own the house, you simply put the house up as security for the mortgage and also on drawdown of the mortgage you gave a personal guarantee to repay the mortgage. That is why a mortgage lender has to go to court to have a repossession order granted to take the house off you. If they owned the property why would they need to go to court to repossess something they already own? In addition, if the mortgage company were to sell the house and the sale price did not clear all the mortgage you are still liable for the balance outstanding. Of course if you read your mortgage contract you would already know this!!

Fair play Jack point taken!

Mass demonstration is the only way, i have said this so many times. These people forget who put them in power and they think they are untouchable now, so it’s time for us all to get of our asses and show them who really has the power, and that’s the people

Sorry but your not well

I have paid every lawful tax in my life but it stops at the unfair tv licence and household charge. Great to be well off and have the money Mick like you. Sorry I don’t have the money to pay.

Simon I have also come to that conclusion a long time ago regarding same. In fairness what kinda sick says he is glad of this to bolster his ego that he is being lawful? Incomprehensible.

You would be delighted alright ! You and your ilk have no back bone and will follow where you are told to go . This is nothing to do with Legal or illegal taxes or fair or unfair taxes .This sir is downright bullying . Short and sweet . They will regret holding our children’s
education to ransom. Where will it stop . Will we have to pay for education from the age of 4 in the future . Why should our children be held to ransom for the crooked dealings of Bertie Aherne , Charlie Haughey…et al. Did the Mahon Tribunal mean nothing ?
This is a NATIONAL DISGRACE and will force people to react …………………..

Unfortunately Mick this isn’t the place for common sense. Please leave yours at the door next time. Chris here can’t afford the household charge or tv license, tho one wonders if he is using a smart phone or computer to write these comments. I don’t have a major issue with people who refuse to pay taxes mind. I just agree that ones ability to pick and choose what taxes they will and won’t pay should be matched by governments ability to pick and choose want benefits and grants those individuals should be allowed to claim.

Laws come and go Joseph and tell me. Do you normally blindly obey the law? What if you lived in South Africa during apartheid it was the law to segregate whites form Blacks. Would you have obeyed or would you have said no, this is wrong. Well I say NO THIS IS WRONG and I am not paying full stop. I do not have the money. If it was fair I would agree in principal but it is not fair or equitable so its a bogus law.

“Well I say NO THIS IS WRONG and I am not paying full stop. I do not have the money. If it was fair I would agree in principal but it is not fair or equitable so its a bogus law.”

…….but I still demand to be given my free grant money!

Gagsy I got no grant money for college and thats a fact but i stand up for those who need a grant because they cannot afford college and tying it to the household charge is underhanded. Wait until they link it to something you need and then see how you feel. Its the students who come from low income families I am defending in this point not those who can afford to pay.

Ha brilliant stuff from Christopher. Equating the household charge with apartheid. You are a regular Nelson Mandella alright. Get over yourself. So often we give out about councils and public servants not showing initiative. This is a great idea and should be applied to more that just these grants.

It is a statute. Not a law. All this because the gombeens in government agree to pay the gambling debts of the super rich.

Newstalk texts show support for Gov! Well I never!….lol

Another conspiracy theory Rommel…. Its sad…

Another conspiracy theory, Declan…It’s sad…

Mick, to my knowledge grants have been around since the mid to late 70′s, so I assume you are of an earlier vintage! Reading between the lines you seem to suggest grants are something from the boom times, which is not true.

The idea of the grants was to take the privilege out of 3rd level education and make it more accessible to the wider community. Before grants were introduced it was very much the privileged few that went on to 3rd level education. Now we have the govt talking of the Smart Economy, regardless of this campaign this is the very time we should be investing in education, is it not better to pay out in a educational grant format than having those that are capable to go on to further education wasting away on the dole?

I agree the grants system should not be seen as guaranteed, but holding the HHC as a stick to beat those that perhaps are not in a position meet such demands is wrong. If this was a requirement at the out set then the Co. Co. should had made it transparent and set it out in the terms of the application process. Instead what they have done is wrote to all that applied saying you get nothing unless your Parents cough up their HHC receipt. Where is the transparency in that? If you are going to introduce a new requirement it must be done prior to the application process has started not when those reliant on the grant are just about to start or continue their 3rd level education.

So your saying people in poverty should’t be allowed to break the poverty cycle? I wish people like you would realize that we are not going to lie down while our futures are taken away from us due to stupid selfish people that most people my age had no control over putting into government why should we pay for the mistakes? why aren’t the right people brought to justice, no we will blame the people who are disabled the elderly, students the easy targets not the bankers with the cushie jobs and security for the rest of their lives so why don’t you take your anger out on the right people.

Are you serious. Blackmailing college students who in many cases pay for their own food and accommodation. Are independent adults to be held accountable for the actions of other independent adults!

Discrimination by association has now seemingly evolved into intimidation and extortion by association… How would you like to be held responsible for what your neighbours and/or friends do. E.g. your friend stole a car, “I’m afraid you will have to go to prison until they are caught and borught to justice.” “What, you think that isn’t fair!?!?” “Well their your friend and shouldn’t have stolen that car!”

Booooo.

The students’ grants are linked to the earning power of their parents so “independent adults” my eye.

@Tertullian:
“The students’ grants are linked to the earning power of their parents so “independent adults” my eye.”

You do realise you just provided one of many valid arguments as to why councils should NOT withhold grants based on payment of the household tax!

“grants are linked to the earning power of their parents”
The parents are poor so they cannot help fund a childs third level education. Third level education is extremely important… to enable everyone to be educated the state provides support for those who cannot/do not have the financial background to go to college. So these individuals (more so than others with rich parents) need to independently fund there studies. Great idea (the council thinks to itself) we will target these young adults who need the money withholding/refusing them the support, because their parents didn’t pay a ludicrous tax (I’m not getting into another discussion about the demerits of the “household charge”).

Prey on the vulnerable, way to provide an example for society as a whole… what a bunch of bullies!

The parents don’t receive the grant, the students do. The parents are liable for the household charge, the students aren’t. It’s that simple. Following your logic everyone on the list of revenue defaulters should be forbidden access to A&E and so should all their children.

the law my arse, slavery was enshrined in law too, given your logic you would have been a slave owner.

yes the money comes from the €2347 those of us who don’t qualify for the grant pay as well as those doing masters and post-grad courses now that the post-grad grant was abolished.

Stephenaie people who attend AE pay a charge for the pleasure of doing so but if I coorect your analogy to medical cards then yes people who break the law should be denied a medical card

Medred, payment of the property tax is not part of an income assessment (I assume you meant assess instead of access in the post further above). However, I do agree it should be a sliding scale.

Also the A&E charge is €100 and is nothing near the cost it takes to treat someone who is admitted to A&E. Should we deny them all the other charges as well? As for your proposal to deny medical cards to people who break the law, how do you propose we deal with the resulting homeless population? Or the burial of those who are the victims of your proposal.

Also, I give it three posts before you insult me. I see that despite your twitter account being suspended (my guess would be for abusing other twitter users) you’re still able to post here.

End like you mean to continue

You don’t seem to understand that the 100 charge or a referral is all that is needed to get access to all public health services while failing to declare income or failure to pay relevant taxes is and should be a reason to be denied a medical card. If you worked in the real world you would understand that many people don’t have medical cards and struggle to pay for thier own and there childrens healthcare. I don’t understand how you think failure to provide a medical card would result in homelessness the HSE won’t take your house. While it is clearly to illegal to deny some emergency healthcare.

Well, look at that. It only took one post for you to insult me. I was giving you far too much credit.

Firstly, of course €100 is all that is needed, I’m perfectly aware of that. Public health services should be available to all, the reason people who wouldn’t pass a means don’t get these referrals is because of the 16 month or so waiting list most services take. For example for me to have my hearing checked, I am partially deaf by the way, I had to wait 18 months to be told I have 15% hearing deficit. Second, I struggle to pay for my own healthcare. I haven’t had any dental work since I started college 6 years ago because I can’t afford it. And believe me, I need it, but I am just over the limit to qualify for a medical card and even if I did qualify for a medical card it would cover me for two fillings when I need six (according to the check up I got a dentistry student friend of mine to do). But hey, I can have all the extractions I’d like!

Now I know you’re going to wait all of, oh maybe, one more post before you imply I’m some privileged little rich girl and say something like “GO CRY TO YOUR MIDDLE CLASS MOMMY” again so I’ll just say this – Mohamed Reda Bennani, you don’t know me, you don’t know anything about me, leave me alone.

You seem to have an inferiority complex so please don’t displace yourself hatred towards me.
I am in no way arguing that the health service in Ireland is good I’m saying that it is crap but it is crap for all just some are in Labour’s and Fianna Fails special group and don’t have to pay the token AE fee and get free GP care the rest of us who try and work have to pay E60 for a 5 minute consult. Same applies to college grant the family should pay the token gesture in order to get a grant that is unfairly handed out. I know people who have millionaire uncles and grand parents who pay their accomodation and living expenses while they get a grant. But they are labour supports and socialists… I guess that makes them more entitled than me

Misplaced hatred? Oh please. I’ve got a screenshot of the above mentioned comment if you’d like to see it?

Now stop talking to me, stop contacting me and if at all possible, get some anger
management counselling. You’re harassing me, you’re misusing the comments thread and you’re boring everyone else.

I love a good “report this comment” option.

Actually you only need your policy number now

Unlike the HH charge, your car insurance goes directly to benefit your car. No comparison.

I WONDER WHY

They shouldn’t withhold anything. It’s illegal to do so.

What a wonderfully ignorant and snide generalisation.

Except that would be against the law, since the grant is paid to the students, who are not liable for the charge, and not to the parents, who are.

Ann, they cannot do that because you have to sign up for the charge in the first place. That why people are so anxious about this charge…how much it will go up to next year. If you do sign up and pay you are ” in the system ” as they say and cannot go back…

” And the days of 3rd level handouts needs to come to an end; make it a government student loan scheme like everywhere else.”

And where has the student loan scheme worked effectively? In the UK? Oh no wait maybe the US?