In a nutshell. We have zero chance of getting any money taken off our bill. There can be no lessening of the debt.

Hi Andy,

An explainer is on the way :)

Honestly we don’t know hence we’re all scared that we’re now stuck with the huge debt. If you listen to Noonan and McGrath you’d believe it was a good idea. I think the way it was done is what has people really concerned. I guess time will tell. Best part of the debate was when Adam’s made a slip of the tongue and said ESB instead of ECB!

There can be no lessening of the debt – debt that was never the irish’s peoples to repay!!

There is no doubt that the rothchilds, credit suisse and the likes are delighted this morning. The ECB likewise, they always wanted our debt to be converted to ensure there would be no threat of a writedown

Seems the Dáil were asked to vote on a Bill that was “essential to any deal with the ECB”, without details of any potential deal being revealed. It put TD’s between a rock and a hard place. The majority have taken Government on their word that a deal is imminent and that there was a substantial risk to €14BN of state assets which would have flown from the bank when business hours came about. A lot of trust after being put in the Cabinet to get a deal sorted. TD’s unhappy with method it came about and the initial leak however voted optimistically. Only time will tell if they got it right. Has the potential to be another Bank Guarantee 2008 however. (ie: wrong decision made for the “right” reasons).

We now owe the ECB €28billion instead of Anglo, but the ECB can and will never write down the debt. So all this talk about writing off Anglo debt was pure BS! They never intended to write it off, because they had this bill written long ago.

if the judge listens to David Hall today and deems the promissory note illegal or rules were bent by ECB . we might get some justice and hence a write off. Was Anglo s debt not ours.

not acceptable

Tom you truely are a product of the celtic clueless the debt was shifted indefinately to the future generations of Ireland with no possibility of a write down due to ECB law 40 billion was put on the heads of the children of Ireland at 2 am in the morning by FG/FF/L half of the drunk .The exact same trick as the FF sell the country scam.All you have to say is some remedial remark about Gerry Adams us Irish are truely the stupidest nation on the planet if we were being guaged by what comes out of your brainwashed mouth.REMEMBER why the government do this to us because they have ZERO respect for us and why would they the majority are in some kind of donward spiral were they just cant enough pain.Yere children will thank ye and then leave this country and think our parents truely were a backward breed.If you want showbiz yere getting it and yere going to pay dearly for it ECB ESB who cares i am ashamed to be brought up in the same country as the talking donkeys who inhabit this country in abundance.

A disgraceful shower of traitors, – They have no shame.

Jack D, I’m always amazed when people disagree with someone they ruin their whole argument by starting with a personal attack rather than disagreeing in an unemotional manner. I respect any ones opinion, your entitled to yours but less of the personal stuff.

All that aside, I think you misunderstand my view here, I’m like everyone else in Ireland who is really angry at the mess we’re in and want it fixed but I also live in the real world and understand there is no simple fix. What happened last night had to be done but jaysus it could us into further problems. Will be interesting how it work out with the ECB.

Tom if you bray like one and sound like one then you are one.ESB hahahaha here what he said hahaha .Best part of the debate was when the through opposition denounced this treasonous act SF and Independents alike at leat it showed we are not all sponges of shite and lies.Up your game man you have some good things to say normally.

The quickest way to STOP INJUSTICE is to Rebuke it.Remove it.Remember it.Irish people were not born into Slavery so why should we except it.NEVER it goes against the laws of Man/Woman and Democracy to willyfully except incarceration and Slavery.

Jack, your a gas man, I’m neither one nor the other in the current political setup, in fact I would like it completely changed. I actually want was is good for our country. I say to hell with political leanings as they actually divide us and defocus us all from trying to sort this whole mess and political system out. Hope that make sense.

Tom get out there man get moving think 10 years down the line we will be a subdued dismantled obedient nation who will except the faith that is giving to us by faces we do not recognize.I apoligize for calling you a name unfounded and out of order but i witnessed what happened last night with my own eyes and to say i am in pain is an understatement i would fight for others children because it is right i have none myself the way i see it we are the gatekeepers to the future and i’l be damned if they suffer because of our inability to act on what is right in all our hearts and minds.

I hear you! No need to Apologise, as I understand you opinion and where your coming from.

your (I mean!)

Shocking Gaff Tom.

Again I Say Arm Chair Warriors. SPINLESS Irish.

Again I Hear Arm Chair Warrior Ramblings.

But They Will Jack They Will Suffer. Because We As A People are SPINLESS LAZY COWARDS.

I meant the Remark Adams Made Tom ( Esb )

I don’t get your point James?

Good point Mr Purcell… Actually never thought of it that way.

I wish I could like this comment a 100 times

Don’t forget the shameful way Mr Noonan dealt with the hepatitis scandal or the way they’re trying to stall on the Magdalene women. They’re quick enough to bring in legislation to help their friends and cronies, but when it comes to the ordinary people of Ireland they couldn’t give a toss.

Blue and Red turn Coats. Rats.

We were not told it was a terrible idea, we were told it was not possible.

My children don’t even exist… and their pockets are already being emptied. They will certainly not be growing up in this country. Russia seems to be a lot more appealing… sure the education system there is far more advanced… Although I would earn less… not so different to here but at least the kids would be happy!

I am no expert. Far from it in fact. But you’re right. Instead of teachers and lawyers as politicians. ..we need people qualified in their field of policical office. Politicians with the Irish peoples best interests at heart are few and far between. I for one don’t want to leave Ireland but I won’t stay and watch it burn to the ground at the hands ls of a few OVERPAID idiots.

Dermott D Or Deserve. Too SPINLESS to Warrant Respect.

How come they can “liquidate” this bank now.. But 3 years ago when everyone said they should the answer was” no.. no .. no we can’t liquidate the bank it’s impossible”. So what’s changed? Apart from the fact we now owe more than 70 billion that’s 70,000,000,000) euro !!

Why are they going to replace the promissary notes with bonds? Just default so we can get on with our lives and actually have a few bob to spend to grow the economy. Meat will impact negatvely on our exports, we need domestic demand up to cover the shortfall….Joe Soap needs cash

for that mistake they need to get a 100 % write off debt from ECB today

write off debt…..

Yvonne Don’t Worry We Will The Irish People Are SPINLESS .

That’s exactly what I’m thinking! But here’s the thing if the gov knew pormnotes were illegal as they stood last night and rushed legislation to change that…..knowing David halls challenge would result in a win for the citizens…..surely that’s illegal in its self? Acting NOT on behalf of Irish citizens…..F*uck them anyway…I’m outta here RIP Ireland

Exactly my sentiments.

Alan,
Let’s stick to the facts.
His case was based on TD’s not having a chance to vote on the Prom notes. As he isn’t and wasn’t a TD, this means he personally wasn’t stopped from voting. Only TD’s from the last Dail were effected by this decision.
It has nothing to do with his standing, nor of a TD’s standing.
It’s like some one assaulting me. Does that mean you can go to court to claim damages for yourself for my injuries?
It’s now up to a TD that was effected by the decision to take over the case.
It was explained quite well in various media last week.

Was wondering was this the case last night to be honest

conspiracy definetly. I hope David Hall gets all the support he needs today. Its difficult for him to have to do what our government should be doing on our behalf. So David we appreciate it. justice today

David Hall doesn’t have locus standi so he has no chance of succeeding. If he did potentially the courts could claim seisin and strike down the legislation as they did in relation to the Sinn Fein funds act. The problem David Hall has is that he has no standing. If he had taken a case solely against promissory notes as a policy he would have had a standing as a citizen but the courts would have thrown it out as a separation of powers issue. Therefore he had to come up with a more creative case, which he did, but it’s unfortunately led him to have no standing to bring the case as he was not a sitting TD in the last Dail.

Does that not prove that it was the only option? Everyone mouthing off about the government betraying them! They have no choice

Well said yf corruption at the highest how would u be proud to be irish

Easily summed up, ff fg and labour voted yes. Independents + sinn.fein voted no.

Hear Hear Alan.

Angela Will Be Roaring ROUS ROUS AS THEY LINE US UP AGAINST THE WALL.

The word is “treacherous”.

Let’s all move to Switzerland :)

So long as the government acted within the confines of the constitution he should sign the bill into law. A president shouldn’t be expected, nor should we want it, to reject proposals that passed through the Dail with an overwhelming majority.

You’re basically asking him to disregard democracy and take the country into his own hands.

Been Saying It For Years Brian, Nobody Listens Or Cares. TOO SPINLESS .

Zeig Heil Mein Fureur.

Once it’s constitutional, he’ll sign it. Michael D doesn’t sign legislation based on his personal opinion.

Arrrrrrgh another!!! Read the constitution or don’t comment!!

The president legally has to sign legislation that’s passed by the Dáil/Seanad. This isn’t the USA where the president can veto a law or something silly like that.

The only way he can refuse to sign the bill is to resign. Then the Presidential Council will take over and sign the bill.

MD Always Was A Wily Old Fart.

Don’t hold you’re breath.

No. The troika has already said that any extre cash flow from this will be read as a ‘wind fall’ and as such will have to be paid towards the deficit.

More Arm Chair Ramblings.

There wouldn’t be room in the dock with all the politicians and bankers in there..

There wouldn’t be room in the dock with all the politicians and bankers in there..

I am disgusted with him. Totally and completely. They’ve screwed us rightly and he has let them so he could get back to Italy this morning. He could have had decency to at least stay in the country afterwards

Oh for f*cks sake!! Every time an unpopular price of legislation comes through someone says this, every time it’s explained to them, do people not learn!! The President has no right to refuse to sign legislation because it is bad! He can only refuse if his counsel advise him it is potentially unconstitutional. Then he refers or to the Supreme Court under Article 26. If they say it is unconstitutional it’s struck down, I’d they say its constitutional then he has to sign it. I am no fan on this legislation but to say Michael D. could have refused to sign it is disingenuous.

I thought constitutionality of the extraordinary powers given to the Finance Minister under the legislation were questionable.

You may think so Amanda but do you really want a country where the President rejects bills that have passed through a democratically elected parliament with an overwhelming majority?

No matter how odious this bill is you’re advocating him rejecting the very basis of democracy and, in effect, rendering the Dail and this country’s voting citizens useless

If he thinks its unconstitutional and the council of state agree it would be undemocratic for him not to refer it. The ultimate expression of the power of the people is in the constitution which gives us sovereignty, not the Dail. My rant above was not about the potential constitutionality of the bill but about people willy nilly calling for him to refuse to sign things that are unpopular, which is obviously far beyond the scope of his office.

Cute Little Fairy.

Nothing New There Then Niall We are all Usless.

How so? So long as the government acted within the confines of the constitution he should sign the bill into law. A president shouldn’t be expected, nor should we want it, to reject proposals that passed through the Dail with an overwhelming majority. You’re basically asking him to disregard democracy and take the country into his own hands.

I think it is a bit late to be worrying about democracy! Democracy is dead in this country. He should have grown a back bone and told them no he wants more time. I am speechless to the blatant corruption and fraud that happened right before my very eyes. Ye have signed away my future in Ireland, traitors FG labour FF, traitors to the Irish people

Democracy isn’t dead in this country Julie.

The people of Ireland voted in Fianna Fail and kept voting them time and time again, even when we all ‘knew’ what Bertie and his people were up to. The people of Ireland elected this government too.

The people of Ireland might change this government from FG/Lab to FG/FF or FF/Lab next time, but I guarantee you they will still vote for FG, FF or Lab and it will again be the people of Ireland who will have given them the power to do things like this.

Anyone who steps out of line with the main parties are called a communist or a hippie by, guess who, the people of Ireland. That is democracy and it is the way it works.

He could have refused to sign and resigned his office. There is always a choice.

Shut up Alan

Alan,
And then one of the council (I think) would have taken his place to sign it.
Did no one listen during the Presidential election? His role was laid out numerous times.

No Alan is right in that you always have options , including Micheal D, however this probable wasn’t the right time for such action

If its a Bill and its constitutional he’d have no choice!

President Higgins is in Italy promoting this country to business to try and get them to base their operations here. Stop being so short-sighted.

Im no expert but could they not have faxed him the papers to sign?? instead of flying back to Ireland

I don’t think so Patrick. I might be wrong, but for the bill to be enacted, the copy with the seal from the Attorney General is the one that must be signed. It has to be the original, as far as I know.

For Gods sake Ann, where are you getting that from?
We had a Dail with 166 TD’s, elected by us 2 years ago. We have a Seanad with 60 Senators and a president we elected last year.
With in the next 3 years, we will have elections again, giving us the chance to vote FG and Lab out again.
Where in under God did you get a dictatorship from.
This is the sort of nonsense that gets posted on this site, simply because it’s thought to be a great buzzword. ‘i know, I’ll type Dictator, that makes perfect sense’.

And Angela Is Mien Fureur,

What do you mean?

David McWilliams said that this brings us closer to default. Keep a close eye on the bond markets this year. Bring it on!

I’m not altogether on the implications of this, but its all rushed, middle of the night, cloak and dagger stuff. I’m sure the spin will be positive but the last time legislation was passed in this manner it hung the country out to dry.

Of course Michael D signed it, sure he’s just another status quo gombeen. The time is over due for us to shake these gombeens up and rid our Nation of their corrupt ways.

And he’s always spot on isn’t he!!

Absolutely irrelevant James. McGuinness or any President would do the same

Down with this sorta thing

James,
What exactly do you think Martin could have done differently?
The president is obliged to sign a bill that isn’t unconstitutional. Martin would have been no different. He would have had no choice but to sign.
If he didn’t, it would have had to go to the court, and if it was deemed constitutional, would have been enacted into law. Except then, there would be no chance for any one to appeal against the bill. It cannot be challenged in any way.
Martin would have had no choice but sign this bill. He cannot refuse on the grounds that he doesn’t like it.

write it off today before we have to default

Another Arm Chair Warrior Speaks.

You’d rather he became a dictator and refused bills passed overwhelmingly in a democratically elected house then? Stop being so reactionary, it gets us nowhere as a country

Say FG decided to change the laws on general elections? Where only FG candidates were allowed to run for the Dail?
Would this be constitutional?
If there wasn’t a president to check the constitutionality of a bill, would you want FG to be in power.
Michael D can only refuse to sign, if the bill is unconstitutional. There is no other reason that he cannot sign a bill. He cannot decide to not sign, if he decides he doesn’t like the bill. He has no choice.
His one purpose is to make sure that bills going through the Dail and Seanad are constitutional.

What the traitors did last night might not go against the constitution but it went against the will of the Irish people!! That’s the point people are making.

No Ryan,
Read all the comments above. Giving out about Michael D for signing this bill. He can’t refuse because he doesn’t like it. To say otherwise, is only showing ignorance about the role of the President.
Save your anger for FG and Lab if you want, but the President had to sign this. As would any of the other candidates for the Presidential election, if they had got in. Including Martin McGuinness.

That’s great Ryan but why the need to lay into Higgins for doing his job? The anger should go towards the Dail not towards an Aras

Right On That’s The Way To Show These B……S we will Not Tolerate This Crap. FIGHTING IRISH. What a JOKE WE ARE.

How is it a good thing if I sent u my bank details will u pay my loans this month cos that’s what they have done

should have done it back in 2008, they should have had “a pair” from the start and not have to grow “a pair” 5 years later.

Sarcasm is lost here