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Britain's Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen hold a press conference at Windsor Guildhall Alamy Stock Photo
Live Blog
As It Happened: Sunak hails ‘decisive breakthrough’ in Northern Ireland Protocol as deal reached
The Northern Ireland Protocol has been the stumbling block ever since the UK officially left the EU three years ago.
10.48am, 27 Feb 2023
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LAST UPDATE|27 Feb 2023
THE EU AND the UK have struck a deal to revise the Northern Ireland Protocol arrangement, possibly ending one of Brexit’s most vexing puzzles.
British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen appeared together in Windsor this afternoon to copper-fasten the agreement.
Von der Leyen then met with Britain’s King Charles. This meeting, approved by Downing Street, has raised the ire of some Tories and unionists.
DUP leader Jeffrey Donaldson has said that “significant progress” has been made in the new Northern Ireland Protocol deal, but said that “there remain key issues of concern”. The DUP has, to date, been boycotting Stormont over the Protocol.
British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak speaking in the House of Commons Alamy Stock Photo
Alamy Stock Photo
Responding to Donaldson in the Commons, Sunak has said he believes the agreement secures Northern Ireland’s place in the United Kingdom.
He referenced concerns some in the unionist community had with the protocol, and said: “I believe very strongly that the Windsor Framework does resolve those issues.
“But I appreciate that the right honourable gentleman and his party and other unionist communities will want to take the time to consider the detail.
“And I respect that, and we will give them the time and the space to consider that, and stand ready to answer any questions and provide any clarifications.”
He added: “I believe that this agreement … does ensure the free flow of trade within our United Kingdom internal market, including unfettered access for Northern Ireland producers to the rest of the United Kingdom. I do believe it secures Northern Ireland’s place in the Union.”
Sunak said: “It ensures and safeguards sovereignty for the people of Northern Ireland.”
27 Feb 2023
7:46PM
Jeffrey Donaldson has sought an assurance in the Commons that the application of EU law would not put barriers in the way of trading with the rest of the UK.
“Ultimately, my party will now assess all these proposed outcomes and arrangements against our seven tests,” he said, adding “and whether it respects and restores Northern Ireland’s place within the United Kingdom.”
27 Feb 2023
7:39PM
Donaldson told the Commons: “Our judgment and principal position in opposing the protocol in Parliament and at Stormont, I believe has been vindicated.
He said: “Undoubtedly it is now recognised that the protocol does not work. And when others said there could be no renegotiation and no change, it was our determination that has proven what can be achieved.”
He added: “In broad terms, it is clear that significant progress has been secured across a number of areas, whilst also recognising that there remain key issues of concern.
“There can be no disguising the fact, for example, that in some sectors of our economy in Northern Ireland EU law remains applicable in our part of the United Kingdom.”
He said his party would want to “study the detail” of what has been published as well as examining “the legal text, the political declaration and the Government’s command paper”.
He added: “Where necessary we stand ready to engage with the Government in order to seek further clarification, reworking or change as required.”
Downing Street said it would not be helpful to speculate on the restoration of Stormont, after the agreement of the Windsor Framework.
“I don’t think it would be helpful for us to start speculating on the restoration of the executive at this point. I think that first and foremost that is a question for them,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.
“There is now an important choice for all parties in Northern Ireland, given we feel this creates the right conditions, but obviously it is a question for them.”
Downing Street said not all elements of the deal require Stormont to be sitting to be implemented.
27 Feb 2023
7:01PM
“I have been clear for some time that if the Prime Minister were to get agreement with the EU and if that agreement is in the interests of this country and Northern Ireland, then Labour would support it,” Starmer says.
“And we will stick to our word. We will not snipe. We will not seek to play political games.”
Labour will support the deal if it is put to a vote, Starmer confirms.
“The protocol will never be perfect. It is a compromise.
“But I have always been clear that, if implemented correctly, it is an arrangement that can work in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.
“And that now it has been agreed, we all have an obligation to make it work.”
Labour leader Keir Starmer is now addressing the House of Commons.
27 Feb 2023
6:57PM
The ban on British sausages entering Northern Ireland from Great Britain has been scrapped thanks to the Windsor Framework, Sunak told MPs in the Commons.
He said if the Northern Ireland Protocol was implemented in full, “we would see supermarket lorries needing hundreds of certificates for every individual item, every single document checked, supermarket staples like sausages banned altogether”.
“More delays, more cost, less choice. So today’s agreement fixes all this with a new, permanent legally binding approach to food.”
The Prime Minister later added: “Under the protocol, retail food products made to UK standards could not be sold in Northern Ireland. Today’s agreement completely changes that. This means the ban on British products like sausages entering Northern Ireland has now been scrapped.
“If it’s available on supermarket shelves in Great Britain, then it will be available on supermarket shelves in Northern Ireland.”
27 Feb 2023
6:56PM
Spontaneous laughter erupts in the Commons as Prime Minister Rishi Sunak pays tribute to his predecessors for "laying the foundation for today's agreement" between the UK and the EU.
Sunak faced down laughter in the Commons as he opened his speech by paying tribute to his predecessors.
Rishi Sunak told MPs: “I pay tribute to our European friends for recognising the need for change, particularly President (Ursula) von der Leyen, my predecessors for laying the groundwork for today’s agreement…”
The British Prime Minister was then interrupted by laughter from the opposition benches, as one Labour MP could be heard shouting: “Where’s Boris?”
Sunak continued: “And my friends the foreign and Northern Ireland secretaries for their perseverance in finally persuading the EU to do what it spent years refusing to do, to rewrite the treaty and replace it with a radical, legally binding new framework.”
27 Feb 2023
6:55PM
Sunak told the Commons that the Windsor Framework “permanently removes the border in the Irish Sea”.
“The commitment to establish the green lane is achieved by a legally binding amendment to the text of the treaty itself. This is fundamental, far-reaching change and it permanently removes the border in the Irish Sea,” Sunak said.
Laying out some of the detail in the deal on border checks, Sunak said: “The only checks will be those required to stop smugglers and criminals and our new green lane will be open to a broad, comprehensive range of businesses across the United Kingdom.
“I am pleased to say we have also permanently protected tariff-free movement of all types of steel into Northern Ireland, and for goods going the other way from Northern Ireland to Great Britain we have scrapped export declarations, delivering finally completely unfettered trade.”
Rishi Sunak addressing the House of Commons Screengrab / Sky News
Screengrab / Sky News / Sky News
Back to Rishi Sunak in the House of Commons.
“After weeks of negotiations, today we have made a decisive breakthrough. The Windsor Framework delivers free-flowing trade within the whole UK,” Sunak told MPs.
“It protects Northern Ireland’s place in our Union and it safeguards sovereignty for the people of Northern Ireland. By achieving all this it preserves the delicate balance inherent in the Belfast Good Friday Agreement.
“It does what many said could not be done, removing thousands of pages of EU laws, and making permanent legally binding changes to the protocol treaty itself. That is the breakthrough we have made, those are the changes we will deliver and now is the time to move forward as one United Kingdom.”
Sunak was cheered by his own backbenchers on entering the chamber, with some waving order papers.
27 Feb 2023
6:46PM
When asked what was difference about Sunak’s handling of negotiations compared to his predecessors, Varadkar said that “a lot of trust” has been build up betwen Ursula von der Leyen and the British Prime Minister.
He added “the fact that things were done very quietly behind the scenes and negotiations were kept confidential” made a difference.
27 Feb 2023
6:41PM
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar says he appreciates that some people will need time to give careful consideration to the Windsor framework.
“I hope that when they do, they’ll be able to give it their full support and that it will lead to an early restoration of the assembly and executive.”
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar at Government buildings this evening Sasko Lazarov / RollingNews.ie
Sasko Lazarov / RollingNews.ie / RollingNews.ie
“I firmly believe that the people in Northern Ireland don’t want to return to the divisions of the past. They want to make progress together. They want a shared future,” the Taoiseach says.
“Like people everywhere, they want political institutions to sort out the issues that matter most in their daily lives. The state of the health service, cost of living crisis, housing and the economy.”
27 Feb 2023
6:39PM
Varadkar says the deal, if implemented, will bring “stability and certainty to a situation that has been in flux” since the UK voted to leave the EU.
27 Feb 2023
6:38PM
Varadkar says there is “no doubt that Brexit has been disruptive to the lives of people on these islands, especially so in Northern Ireland”.
“While the protocol exists to minimise that disruption, to prevent a hard border between North and South and to ensure free movement and free trade between North and South, its operation has resulted in some problems for businesses and citizens in Northern Ireland. And it has made trade between Britain and Northern Ireland, more complicated there needs to be,” he says.
“Today’s agreement provides solutions, solutions that are … workable and durable.”
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar entering the courtyard of Government buildings this evening Sasko Lazarov / RollingNews.ie
Sasko Lazarov / RollingNews.ie / RollingNews.ie
“Today’s announcement is a positive outcome in negotiations on the protocol between the European Union and the United Kingdom and it is most welcome,” Varadkar says.
“It is a result of long and long protracted process to find joint solutions. And I pay tribute to both teams who’ve worked very hard in good faith to bring us to this point,” he says.
27 Feb 2023
6:35PM
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is speaking outside Government Buildings now.
We’ll provide updates on this first and then return to the developments in the House of Commons.
British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak Alamy Stock Photo
Alamy Stock Photo
Rishi Sunak told his Cabinet in a virtual meeting that he believes “with his head and his heart” that the Windsor Framework is a “good deal for everyone in Northern Ireland”.
The British Prime Minister’s official spokesman said: “The Prime Minister said the Government had achieved something very special with the Windsor Framework.
“He said they had secured what many said was impossible, making legally binding changes to the protocol treaty itself.
“The Prime Minister concluded Cabinet by saying the protocol had been causing significant problems for communities and businesses and that he passionately believed with his head and his heart that the new agreement was a good deal for everyone in Northern Ireland.”
27 Feb 2023
6:27PM
Former First Minister of Northern Ireland Ian Paisley has accused Sunak of overpromising and underdelivering with the Windsor Framework, Sky News is reporting.
Paisley has reportedly said the deal “doesn’t go far enough”, adding he is unhappy about the role of the European Court of Justice in Northern Irish law.
27 Feb 2023
6:24PM
“Today is about preserving the delicate balance of the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement and charting a new way forward for the people of Northern Ireland,” Sunak has tweeted.
Agreement signed.
Today is about preserving the delicate balance of the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement and charting a new way forward for the people of Northern Ireland.
British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is set to address the House of Commons at around 6.30pm.
27 Feb 2023
6:00PM
Some further reaction from DUP leader Jeffrey Donaldson on the deal – he says there are still some areas of concern that have to be looked at.
Responding to the new Windsor Framework, leader of the DUP Sir Jeffrey Donaldson MP says there are still some issues of concern that still need to be looked at.https://t.co/PAiZ4D1jU3
Alliance leader Naomi Long has said she would like to examine the details of the deal.
“We’ve been very clear from the beginning what our expectations would be, we would want to still maintain dual market access, that’s important for businesses in Northern Ireland,” she said.
“We also want to see a reduction in the amount of bureaucracy that the protocol creates, particularly for those who are importing goods from GB into Northern Ireland.
“We’re also looking for stability because businesses are telling us very clearly that what they want are stable outcomes.
“If we have that stability and clarity, and we maintain dual market access but with a reduction in bureaucracy, then I think that that’s a good deal.”
27 Feb 2023
5:26PM
For those who are just catching up on the news, let’s take another quick look at the main points in the new deal…
Green lane / Red lane
Anything destined for Northern Ireland will travel there as part of a “green lane”, with significantly fewer checks. Anything that could cross the border and enter the EU’s single market will travel through a separate red lane.
Sunak said that the changes to the protocol will scale back the number of certificates required for traders moving goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, with customs paperwork removed too for people sending parcels or buying goods online.
He indicated changes to the movement of food too, claiming that anything made to UK rules will now be clear to be “sent to and sold” in NI. That will include sausages, one of the foodstuffs hit by protocol changes and which grabbed the attention of politicians in Belfast and Westminster alike.
VAT
The legal text of the protocol has also been amended on VAT. Under current arrangements, EU VAT and excise rules for goods generally apply in Northern Ireland.
Sunak said that would now change, with the legal text of the protocol amended to allow the UK Government to “make critical VAT and excise changes for the whole of the UK”.
Medicine
There will be a “landmark” settlement on medicines. Drugs approved for use by the UK’s medicines regulator will be automatically available in all pharmacies and hospitals in the North.
Stormont brake
There will now be a “Stormont brake”.
This allows the Northern Ireland Assembly to flag concerns about changes to EU rules that would have a “significant and lasting” effect.
He said that if pulled, the UK Government will have a “veto”.
27 Feb 2023
5:15PM
The meeting between King Charles III and Ursula von der Leyen has raised some eyebrows about the monarch’s intrusion into politics.
British royal commentator Peter Hunt said of the meeting between the British King and von der Leyen: “This is a very serious error of judgment by King Charles and his advisers.”
The former BBC royal correspondent tweeted: “He’s abandoned his unifying role and entered the political fray, in a foolish bid to be seen as statesmanlike.
“History won’t be kind. Someone’s head will roll.”
This is a very serious error of judgement by King Charles and his advisors.
He’s abandoned his unifying role and entered the political fray, in a foolish bid to be seen as statesmanlike.
In a statement issued this afternoon, DUP leader Jeffrey Donaldson has said that “significant progress” has been made in the new Northern Ireland Protocol deal, but said that “there remain key issues of concern”.
“We welcome the publication of the outcome of the [UK] Government’s negotiations with the EU which ends a period of speculation and spin, often from those who know little about Northern Ireland.
“In broad terms it is clear that significant progress has been secured across a number of areas whilst also recognising there remain key issues of concern. There can be no disguising the fact that in some sectors of our economy EU law remains applicable in Northern Ireland.
“The DUP will want to study the detail of what has been published today as well as examining the detail of any and all underpinning legal texts. Where necessary we stand ready to engage with the Government in order to seek further clarification, re-working or change as required.
“Ultimately the party will now assess all these proposed outcomes and arrangements against our seven tests, outlined in our 2022 Assembly Election Manifesto, to determine whether what has been published meet our tests and whether it respects and restores Northern Ireland’s place within the United Kingdom.”
King Charles III has welcomed European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen to Windsor Castle.
Britain's King Charles III with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen during an audience at Windsor Castle Alamy Stock Photo
Alamy Stock Photo
27 Feb 2023
5:03PM
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has welcomed “the positive outcome” of the EU-UK negotiations on the Northern Ireland Protocol.
“It is the result of a long and difficult process to find joint solutions,” he tweeted.
“I pay tribute to both teams who have worked hard and in good faith to bring us to this point. I also want to recognise the Northern Irish parties for their constructive engagement.”
I pay tribute to both teams who have worked hard and in good faith to bring us to this point. I also want to recognise the Northern Irish parties for their constructive engagement.
SDLP leader Colum Eastwood is urging political leaders to approach the terms of the deal in good faith and with a determination to restore the democratic institutions in Northern Ireland.
“My appeal to political leaders is to approach this moment in good faith and with a common determination to restore our Assembly and Executive. People have been badly let down with no government for far too long. It is time to abandon the politics of division and deadlock.
“To those intent on intervening in this process to bolster their own political position I would say this – do not attempt to wreck this deal, to demolish the hope of a resolution that serves the people of Northern Ireland. Do not let fragile egos inflict further damage to our fragile settlement.
“The SDLP will approach this deal in good faith determined to get to work.”
File photo - Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson Alamy Stock Photo
Alamy Stock Photo
Rishi Sunak has scrapped Boris Johnson’s controversial Northern Ireland Protocol Bill and the EU has dropped its legal actions launched against the UK.
The UK Government’s command paper on the new post-Brexit deal says the previous concerns have now been addressed.
“The Government will therefore not be proceeding with the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill,” it reads.
“In turn, the EU will not proceed with the seven separate legal actions it has launched against the United Kingdom – on issues from parcels to pets – reflecting the shared desire for a positive bilateral relationship now and into the future.”
According to the Windsor Framework command paper, just published on the UK Government website, the so-called Stormont brake “will apply to new or amended EU goods rules that would have a significant impact on the day-to-day lives of businesses and citizens”.
The brake will work along the same lines as the cross-community mechanisms already in place in Stormont.
The document says: “Once pulled, that Brake will give the UK Government the sovereign power to veto the new EU rule from ever applying in Northern Ireland. That veto can only be challenged through independent arbitration mechanisms, not the ECJ – removing the ultimate authority of the ECJ in areas in which it would affect day-to-day lives.
“The result is that EU laws will apply only where strictly necessary to provide privileged access to the whole of the EU market under a new legal framework of democratic consent and control. And we will underpin this new framework through amendments to the Northern Ireland Act 1998 to provide constitutional and democratic guarantees for the people of Northern Ireland.”
27 Feb 2023
4:52PM
Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald has said that her party will meet tonight to discuss the deal.
Welcome news that negotiations have concluded. We will meet tonight to assess the deal. Protection of the GFA, no hardening of the border and access to the EU market are key elements of any deal. There is a real urgency to get the Northern Executive up and running.
Sinn Fein's Stormont leader Michelle O'Neill speaking to the press this afternoon Screengrab / Sky News
Screengrab / Sky News / Sky News
Speaking to reporters at Stormont this afternoon, Sinn Féin’s vice president Michelle O’Neill said she “welcomes the fact that a deal has been done”.
She said that as the details of the agreement are “coming hot off the press”, the party is still working their way through it and will have more to say later.
“We’ve always said that it was possible to have a deal. We’ve always said that with pragmatism solutions could be found. So the fact that both sides have arrived at that point today, and this represents the end of the negotiation, I think is something that will be well received,” O’Neill said.
27 Feb 2023
4:38PM
The Tory chairman of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, Simon Hoare, has praised the “grown politics” involved in striking the new protocol deal.
@RishiSunak and @vonderleyen@JamesCleverly & @MarosSefcovic have demonstrated magnificently what can be achieved when, with mutual respect, understanding, trust and friendship grown ups can do grown politics. As Chairman of @CommonsNIAC I say “thank you & well done”
Ursula von der Leyen has arrived at Windsor Castle ahead of an audience with King Charles III.
PA Images
PA Images
27 Feb 2023
4:24PM
Minister of State for European Affairs Peter Burke has welcomed today’s agreement.
“I believe we now have a real opportunity for us all to move into a new and more positive phase of EU-UK relations, and to face into global challenges as partners.”
27 Feb 2023
4:19PM
Tánaiste and Foreign Affairs Minister Michéal Martin has welcomed the deal struck on the Protocol.
He said it is a “genuine response” to unionist concerns.
“This new agreement, the Windsor Framework, is the result of genuine engagement, and of the EU and UK working together and listening to the concerns raised by elected representatives, citizens and business in Northern Ireland,” he said.
“From the outset, we have always said that the only sustainable outcome is one based on jointly agreed solutions.
“I heard first-hand the concerns of many unionists. I believe they will see in this a genuine response to their genuine concerns.
“This new framework will, for example, ensure that the same food will be available on supermarket shelves in Northern Ireland as in the rest of the UK. Medicines will also be available to people in Northern Ireland at the same time and under the same conditions as the rest of the UK.”
Today’s announcement of an agreement between the EU & UK on the Protocol very welcome.
It's the result of genuine engagement and listening to concerns raised by citizens and business in NI - and paves the way for a new chapter in EU-UK relations amidst global challenges. (1/2) pic.twitter.com/9hdHwvIFXj
Von der Leyen explained at the press conference that the European Court of Justice (ECJ) is the “sole and ultimate arbiter of EU law” and will have the “final say” on single market decisions.
“Indeed, the European Court of Justice is the sole and ultimate arbiter of EU law – that’s natural because it’s prescribed by the EU order. So the ECJ will have the final say in EU law and single market decisions.”
Sunak and von der Leyen during the press conference at the Guildhall in Windsor Alamy Stock Photo
Alamy Stock Photo
However, von der Leyen said that through the new framework each side has “worked hard” to add the new Stormont brake.
She added that it remains an emergency mechanism that hopefully will not need to be used.
Von der Leyen said the EU is fully committed to safeguarding the Good Friday Agreement and to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland.
“Extensive consultations” with the UK and Northern Ireland will regulate the system, she said.
Here’s a snap of Britain’s Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen during the press conference at Windsor Guildhall.
Alamy Stock Photo
Alamy Stock Photo
27 Feb 2023
4:01PM
So, now that the press conference has wrapped up, let’s take a quick look at thethree key elementsof the Windsor Framework:
There will be green lane and red lane trade routes. Goods staying in the UK will use a green lane, while goods moving to the EU will use a red lane.
There will be a “landmark” settlement on medicines. Drugs approved for use by the UK’s medicines regulator will be automatically available in all pharmacies and hospitals in the North.
There will now be a “Stormont brake”. This allows the Northern Ireland Assembly to veto the application of new EU laws.
27 Feb 2023
3:58PM
Sunak told the conference that he recognises that “parties and communities across Northern Ireland will want to take the time to consider the detail of what we’re announcing today. And we should give them the time and the space to do that. And I fully respect that”.
27 Feb 2023
3:57PM
Sunak confirmed that the UK Parliament will have a vote on the deal “at the appropriate time”.
“I think it’s important we give everyone the time and the space they need to consider the detail of the framework.”
27 Feb 2023
3:56PM
The press conference has now ended.
27 Feb 2023
3:55PM
Sunak also announced that the new agreement involves a new “Stormont Brake”.
This allows the Northern Ireland Assembly to veto the application of new EU laws.
“This will establish a clear process through which the democratically elected can pull an emergency brake for changes to EU goods rules that would have significant and lasting effects on everyday lives,” he told the press conference.
We're introducing a new Stormont Brake.
The elected Assembly can pull the brake for changes to EU goods rules that would have significant and lasting effects on everyday lives.
Ursula von der Leyen Screengrab / Sky News
Screengrab / Sky News / Sky News
Von der Leyen told the press conference: “For this to work, we have agreed on strong safeguards like IT access, labels and enforcement procedures that will protect the integrity of the European Union’s single market.”
She said that the new Windsor Framework “respects and protects our respective markets and our respective legitimate interests”.
The EU chief spoke about of the “very hard-earned peace gains of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement” as she condemned the recent shooting of a PSNI officer in Northern Ireland.
“The new Windsor Framework is here to benefit people in Northern Ireland and support all communities celebrating peace on the island of Ireland. And this is why I believe we can now open a new chapter in our partnership. Stronger EU-UK relationship, standing as close partners, shoulder to shoulder now and in the future,” she said.
27 Feb 2023
3:51PM
Sunak explains the new green lane aspect of the ‘Windsor Framework’:
2/ Goods staying in the UK will use a new Green Lane with a separate Red Lane for goods moving to the EU.
In the Green Lane, burdensome customs bureaucracy will be scrapped.
People sending parcels to friends and family or buying products online, will have no customs paperwork.
“I believe the Windsor Framework marks a turning point for the people of Northern Ireland,” Sunak told the press conference.
“It fixes the practical problems they face, it preserves the balance of the Belfast Good Friday Agreement.
“Now of course parties will want to consider the agreement in detail, a process that will need time and care.
“Today’s agreement is written in the language of laws and treaties. But really, it’s about much more than that.
“It’s about stability in Northern Ireland. It’s about real people and real businesses. It’s about showing that our Union that has lasted for centuries can and will endure. And it’s about breaking down the barriers between us, setting aside the arguments that for too long have divided us.”
27 Feb 2023
3:48PM
More from Sunak’s speech here:
"We have now made a decisive breakthrough."
Rishi Sunak confirms a new deal has been agreed with the EU over the Northern Ireland Protocol, which he says will deliver "smooth-flowing trade" throughout the UK.
Sunak also said the deal represents a “landmark settlement” on medicines.
He said the agreement would make “drugs approved for use by the UK medicines regulator automatically available” in Northern Ireland pharmacies.
27 Feb 2023
3:45PM
Sunak said the new agreement protects “Northern Ireland’s place within the union” and allows VAT and excise changes to be applied across the whole of the UK.
“We’ve amended the legal text of the of the protocol to ensure we can make critical VAT and excise changes for the whole of the UK, for example alcohol duty, meaning our reforms to cut the cost of a pint in a pub will now apply in Northern Ireland.”
27 Feb 2023
3:44PM
Von der Leyen says the new Windor Framework will allow a “new chapter” to begin.
She says the deal will “provide long lasting solutions” for the people and businesses of Northern Ireland.
27 Feb 2023
3:43PM
During his speech, Sunak explained that goods destined from Northern Ireland will travel through a “green lane”, removing the need for “hundreds of certificates”.
“Today’s agreement delivers the smooth flow of trade within the United Kingdom,” Sunak said.
“Goods destined for Northern Ireland will travel through a new green lane with a separate red lane for goods at risk of moving on to the EU.
“Food retailers like supermarkets, restaurants and wholesalers will no longer need hundreds of certificates for every lorry and we will end the situation where food made to UK rules could not be sent to and sold in Northern Ireland. This means that if food is available on supermarket shelves in Great Britain, then it will be available on supermarket shelves in Northern Ireland.”
'We have removed any sense of a border in the Irish Sea'
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak says goods destined for Northern Ireland will travel through a new "green lane", removing the need for "hundreds of certificates".https://t.co/WUnquWvHqf
Sunak says the agreement marks a “new chapter” in the UK’s relationship with the European Union.
He says the deal will preserve the “delicate balance” in the Good Friday Agreement that protects the “aspirations and identity” of all people in the North.
He also says it will “end the uncertainty” for the Northern Irish people.
27 Feb 2023
3:39PM
Sunak says the legal text of the protocol has been changed to ensure that restrictions on British products like trees, plants and seeds will be lifted to make them available again in Northern Ireland.
Travel requirements on pets have been removed.
27 Feb 2023
3:36PM
“Today’s agreement delivers smooth-flowing trade within the whole United Kingdom, protects Northern Ireland’s place in our union and safeguards sovereignty for the people of Northern Ireland,” Sunak says.
Rishi Sunak speaking during this afternoon's press conference Screengrab / Sky News
Screengrab / Sky News / Sky News
Sunak has announced what he calls ‘the New Windsor framework’.
“I am standing here today because I believe we have found ways to end the uncertainty, and challenge for the people of Northern Ireland.”
27 Feb 2023
3:32PM
Britain’s Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen have begun their press conference.
27 Feb 2023
3:24PM
Sunak and von der Leyen have now left the Fairmont Hotel in Windsor Park where they were meeting and the deal was done.
The meeting lasted just under an hour and 45 minutes.
The British Prime Minister left first followed minutes later by the European Commission president.
27 Feb 2023
3:23PM
We don’t know exactly when UK MPs will vote on this new deal but it is almost certain to pass when it does.
The Conservatives have a majority of about 70 in the House of Commons but Labour has already indicated that it will back any agreement, meaning that the deal is likely to sail through.
The number to look at will be how many Conservatives actually vote against the deal, with some hardline Brexiteers likely to be unhappy with the agreement’s provisions to allow EU trade rules having effect in Northern Ireland.
The number being suggested is that about 30 Tory MPs vote against the deal, if the number is less than that Sunak is likely to come out of the vote looking stronger.
Sunak and von der Leyen, at the Fairmont Windsor Park hotel. PA
PA
There they are now, the two leaders who are due to speak publicly in the next 30 minutes.
Rishi Sunak, is he the Prime Minister to finally ‘Get Brexit Done’?
Such proclamations are likely to annoy Boris Johnson and some of the more hardline Brexiteers.
27 Feb 2023
2:45PM
Press Association also confirming the deal:
Rishi Sunak has signed a breakthrough deal with the European Union over post-Brexit trading arrangements for Northern Ireland and will now seek to win the backing of unionists and Tory Eurosceptics.
The Prime Minister and EU chief Ursula von der Leyen finalised the long-awaited agreement to ease the trading issues created by the Northern Ireland Protocol during a summit at Windsor on Monday, sources from both sides told the PA news agency.
“An agreement has been reached. The deal is done,” a senior Downing Street source said.
27 Feb 2023
2:27PM
Sources have told Sky News and the BBC that a deal has been reached.
27 Feb 2023
2:13PM
Jeffrey Donaldson has criticised a newspaper report by the Irish News which indicated that the DUP had accepted the deal.
Donaldson tweeted a screenshot from the newspaper which said that the DUP will “explain it’s rationale for their acceptance of the deal”.
The DUP leader said: “We’ll take our time to consider the detail and measure a deal against our seven tests. PS – A busy day and no dinner planned either”.
Anonymous sources strike again. We’ll take our time to consider the detail and measure a deal against our seven tests. PS - A busy day and no dinner planned either - story entirely fictional. Let’s stick to the facts @irish_newspic.twitter.com/vwSgyVBYGp
While we may not know if the Irish government makes an official statement later, Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin has been speaking to RTÉ’s News at One.
He wouldn’t go so far as to say a deal has been done but said that von der Leyen’s presence in the UK is “very clear manifestation of very significant and substantial progress”.
Asked whether he felt these tests had been met, An Tánaiste said:
Well, first of all, I respect that this is a matter that the DUP would have to consider within its party. But I would say that genuinely the European Union has listened to the concerns that have been articulated consistently by the DUP, the UUP and others and others in Northern Ireland in respect to the operation of the Protocol.
And I do believe that the key issues that have been identified had been responded to in a substantial way that would be my assessment of it. But obviously, to be fair to all concerned, we have to wait to full publication of agreements and so on and on the specific items.
27 Feb 2023
1:06PM
Back in Dublin it’s unclear exactly if and when we’re likely to have a statement or press conference by the Taoiseach and Tánaiste.
Much of it will depend on how the day plays out across the water but it certainly won’t be before this evening.
We’re now getting a sense of the plan for the day.
Rishi Sunak has arrived in Fairmont Hotel in Windsor Park, Berkshire, for talks with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen who has not yet arrived.
After that meeting, von der Leyen is expected to meet with King Charles III and Sunak will then make a statement in the House of Commons at 6.30pm.
At present there are no plans for House of Commons vote.
There’s Suank arriving to Windsor in the last while.
PA
PA
27 Feb 2023
12:51PM
Some more on the brewing controversy among British unionism about King Charles’ planned meeting with EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen.
Former DUP leader and first minister of Northern Ireland Arlene Foster has labelled the plan as “crass”.
I cannot quite believe that No10 would ask HM the King to become involved in the finalising of a deal as controversial as this one. It’s crass and will go down very badly in NI.
We must remember this is not the King’s decision but the Government who it appears are tone deaf.
— Arlene Foster DBE PC #ProudofNI. (@ArleneFosterUK) February 27, 2023
Jacob Rees-Mogg has said it is “constitutionally unwise” for the Charles to meet von der Leyen.
“It is surprising that the King will meet Ursula von der Leyen today as it antagonises the people the Prime Minister needs to conciliate,” the Tory Brexiteer said.
“It is also constitutionally unwise to involve the King in a matter of immediate political controversy.”
27 Feb 2023
12:38PM
An interesting one here.
Steve Baker, a former member of the pro-Brexit European Research Group of Tory MPs has given his thoughts on the deal after leaving Downing Street.
“The Prime Minister is on the cusp of securing a really fantastic deal for everyone involved,” he told reporters.
Baker is now a minister in the Northern Ireland Office and made headlines last year when he issued an apology for his past “ferocious” stances on negotiations with the EU.
27 Feb 2023
12:21PM
Unsurprisingly, the decision by King Charles to meet EU chief Ursula von der Leyen, and Downing Street’s advice that he do so, has prompted controversy.
Jacob Rees-Mogg has already been out suggesting that it’s a bad idea but a spokesperson for PM Rishi Sunak has defended the decision.
The Prime Minister’s official spokesman said Sunak believes “fundamentally” that the decision was one for Buckingham Palace.
“He firmly believes it’s for the King to make those decisions,” the official said.
It’s not uncommon for His Majesty to accept invitations to meet certain leaders, he has met President Duda and President Zelensky recently. He is meeting with the president of the EU today.
Asked why the final Protocol talks were taking place in Windsor, the spokesman said:
“There are a number of occasions when these sorts of talks have been held in significant occasions, this is no different.”
Sky News Senior Ireland Correspondent David Blevins has pointed out that the royal intervention isn’t exactly “unprecedented” as the late Queen Elizabeth II did release a statement in 1998 welcoming the Good Friday Agreement.
DUP leader at the time, the late Dr. Ian Paisley, was not happy about that intervention either.
The King’s participation not exactly “unprecedented”. Her Majesty The Queen issued a statement welcoming the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. #Brexit
Sunak has quote-tweeted von der Leyen’s Eurostar tweet, I’ll spare you the St. Pancras image again but this is what the British PM has to say:
I’m looking forward to meeting @vonderleyen in Windsor today for further talks on the shared, practical solutions to the range of complex challenges around the Northern Ireland Protocol.
27 Feb 2023
11:47AM
Just to be clear on what any deal between the UK and the EU means.
It means the current Protocol arrangements will change, regardless of what the DUP thinks about it.
The DUP only come into it because the party is currently boycotting participation of the Northern Ireland Assembly in protest at how the Protocol currently operates.
It will be up to the party to decide if the changes are enough to lift their boycott. There are indications that they will not be but Jeffrey Donaldson and his party may wait a number of days to show their hand.
There are local elections due in Northern Ireland in May and the DUP may fear that a continued boycott may not play well with voters.
Indeed, the decision is a huge one for the future of unionism in the medium term, as Alex Kane, political commentator and former director of communications of the UUP points out.
If Sunak does get a deal through and the DUP refuse to accept it (and we might not get final confirmation for some time) it raises huge problems for what unionism does next. I’m not persuaded either Sunak or the EU would open negotiations again.
Buckingham Palace has indeed confirmed the meeting between King Charles III von der Leyen, although given the sensitivities around the politics of it all there is no mention of anything Brexit-related.
A spokesperson said:
The King is pleased to meet any world leader if they are visiting Britain and it is the Government’s advice that he should do so.
The head of state and president will sit down to tea late on Monday afternoon during their meeting where a range of topics are expected to be discussed including climate change and the situation in Ukraine.
27 Feb 2023
11:22AM
And here we have it, von der Leyen is on British soil.
In the past 10 minutes she’s tweeted a picture of her stepping onto the platform of London St Pancras after getting the Eurostar.
I’m glad to be in the UK today to meet with Prime Minister @RishiSunak.
I’m looking forward to turning a page and opening a new chapter with our partner and friend. pic.twitter.com/GuyMzy2wbj
CONFIRMED: Von der Leyen will meet with King Charles III in Windsor Castle this afternoon.
That development is being reported by PA and Sky News. There’s a statement on the way from Buckingham Palace apparently. We’ll get you that statement when we have it.
27 Feb 2023
11:10AM
And as if to emphasise that today is a big day, the all-important meeting between Sunak and von der Leyen will take place in Windsor, not Downing Street.
There were suggestions on Friday that von der Leyen might even have a meeting with King Charles III if she flew over on Saturday, suggestions that raised some eyebrows about the monarch’s intrusion into politics.
So just to give you a sense about how the choreography about how things will go:
Sunak will head to Windsor followed by von der Leyen where they will hold talks. Around lunchtime is what we’re told.
The British PM will then brief his Cabinet about any agreement.
If all goes to plan there’ll be a joint press conference with the two at about 3.30 pm.
27 Feb 2023
11:03AM
And just in case you thought we were over-hyping von der Leyen’s arrival to Blighty, three UK papers today use the ‘seal the deal’ terminology while others mention it in different ways.
Good morning! Rónán Duffy here for the latest season finale of Brexit.
The issues are pretty much the same but the characters are slighthy different.
Rishi Sunak is the fifth British PM since the UK voted to leave rhe EU all of six-and-a-half years ago but he’s not looking to be the man to end all the post-divorce bikcering.
Will it be enough for the Brexit fundmentalists in his party? That remains to be seen but it’s likely that he has enough votes to drown them out anyway.
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@James Fox: Why keep looking at news apps in the middle of a pandemic if you don’t want to know what’s happening?? I don’t want to be uninformed just because someone else does. Really wish people would stop shooting the messengers.
@JusticeForJoe: no, they won’t. Covid is here to stay. We used to have an approach focused on protecting the health service. That’s not our approach anymore. Now it’s about mild cases, irrespective of how our health service is coping. That shift in approach means we can never, ever return to normal.
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: That is literally not true, we will be returning to normal and for one glaring reason: capital. If you think governments around the globe will accept an indefinite pause on the economy for this then you need to go to bed. The vaccines will prevent the vast majority from experiencing any symptoms that require anything more than a day in bed. Once it gets to that level normality will resume, from then it will end up like how we manage the flu with an adapted vaccine every winter season for the current covid variant that is gaining traction.
@aaron: I suspect he’s trying to convince people that the vaccines are pointless or dangerous. The anti-vaxxers have been so (rightly) vilified, they’re ashamed to admit that they’re anti-vax now. I see no other logical explanation for this lad’s rubbish.
Fun fact: a percentage of anti-vaxxers are just afraid of needles
@JusticeForJoe: I’m not. Most people will be vaccinated by September/October, yet government plans on maintaining restrictions until Summer 2022 at the earliest. If it were a case that restrictions would be lifted after vaccinations were completed, why would the government suggest we should maintain those restrictions beyond that point? This is not me saying this; this is our government.
@JusticeForJoe: well, no, that’s just a straight out lie. I’m fully in favour of vaccines. Apart from a tiny, tiny percentage of people who *might* have some very minor side effects, the vaccines are safe and effective against the symptoms of Covid. Personally, I think governments should be bending over backwards to work in conjunction with the pharmaceutical companies to ramp up production. I’m also in favour of vaccine certification which would allow travel. I have stated my support for vaccines on numerous occasions. Here we have yet another example of you lying and targeting others with false accusations simply because I don’t 100% agree with your position. This ties in exactly with what I said on another thread – you are a hate-filled Covid supremacist.
@JusticeForJoe: JusticeForJoe c. 1 month ago: “I never insult anyone or call them names”. Also JusticeForJoe today: “I have already predetermined your opinion without evidence so I won’t actually read your opinion, but will instead call you an anti-vaxxer Covidiot.” You’re the wоrst kind of hypоcrite – the type that doesn’t even know you are one and belittles everyone around you.
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: I’ve seen your opinions. I know what camps you’re in and I don’t need to hear anything else from you when there are sane and reasonable people around to hear from instead.
@JusticeForJoe: you obviously don’t know what camp I’m in. You say I’m an anti-vaxxer. That’s an outright lie. You insinuated I was a Trump supporter. That is another lie, as I cannot stand him. You claimed before that I support fully opening society. Yet another lie, as I support restrictions. Everything you claimed about me was a lie. You are neither sane nor reasonable. You bully those with mental health issues. You insult those who do not agree 100% with you. If anyone asks a question you label them as idiоts. Yоu are an extrеmist a supremаcist and a liаr. In your view there are only camps: supporters of a complete lockdown of society and ignore those who are struggling; or, those who are completely anti-lockdown, anti-mask, anti-vax and anti-science. For you, there is no inbetween.
So in other words, the lockdowns are not going to work. Continuing lockdowns for something that is not going to go away is going to decimate this country. There will be nothing left. Nothing to stay here for. If other countries have managed to open up and managed to get back to.normality there will be an exodus again from this place. Well those if us that are left to exodus that is. Be it from covid or other means. Humanity is the survival of the fittest. Alas there is nothing we can do about this. The virus will continue to mutate by it’s very nature. Do you think its possible to develop and manufacture that quantity of vaccine every year??
@Iblis: lockdowns were never meant to be a longterm plan. They are a delay tactic for governments to get their health service and facilities in order. Ireland is currently paying the price for several years of mismanagement of the health budget and funds.
@Laura Walsh: agreed Laura. I don’t think there is enough character space here to outline the mismanagement. When the Philippines start keeping their nurses due to their own issues and the nurses here that have been working tirelessly to help us all aren’t been paid, decide to throw in the towel… Let’s just say all of our issues will be exasperated. I really think we will see a new type of exodus here in the coming years. I have a great, well paying job. Beautiful house and all the toys I could want. Problem is they are all in a country which will have nothing to enjoy in it within 5 years if we stay the current course. I really do love this country but I fear it will be back in the 80′s if we don’t open back up soon.
@Iblis: Humanity is the survival of the fittest? Is that what defines us? I would have thought humanity is defined by how the vulnerable are protected.
@Laura Walsh: Several years! Decades more like.. we have an antiquated health service that is struggling to adapt to the modern world.
We are pumping billions a year into the health service, its like a bottomless pit. It was mentioned recently the vaccine data was still been documented with pen and paper!
@Laura Walsh: The first lockdown was promoted that way but they pretty much revealed that they want to use rolling lockdowns to battle the crisis. It’s sadly the only plan we have.
@Bert Carolan: humanity speaks of protecting the vulnerable from one corner of their mouth while supporting a political and economic structure which kills millions, enslaves children, keeps 100s millions in poverty and decimates ecological systems. Protecting the vulnerable is a catchphrase that’s nice to hear, but it has never been true.
@Laura Walsh: Covid should and could have been one time where this was not the case, where all countries and companies would forget about profit and respond. I was niave I suppose but I have to believe that mankind can rise above short term profit. Otherwise my children will have an ugly future.
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: Well said Brian, protecting the vulnerable, all in this together, another few weeks. Whatever the slogan of the day happens to be, it’s just soundbites. The real shame here is that most can’t see the shambles that’s unfolding.
As the soap opera unfolds, I’m wondering what excuses or blame game will the govt be playing in another year or so.
@Laura Walsh: Several years? At least two decades unfortunately. What truly beggars belief at least in my mind is that everyone seems to forget about our current Taoiseach being the minister for health in the early 2000s when the trolley crisis began in earnest. He presided over the beginning of the crisis and did absolutely nothing to resolve it, and that chronic mismanagement of the health service is ultimately the same mismanagement that has led it into such severe inadequacy today.
I honestly can’t fathom how this isn’t brought up more often. He was the de facto Táiniste in the coalition-that-wasn’t-a-coalition prior to this government taking office last year and he regularly lambasted Simon Harris for his appalling management of the health service – the lack of self awareness was staggering, it was like watching Father Dougal call Cyril McDuff an eejit every time the two of them locked horns over the issue.
In other words, the man whose government previously sowed the seeds of the health service crisis while he was the responsible minister, spent the next decade in opposition criticising his successor for continuing the same disastrous policy chain he initially set in motion, and is now the leader of the entire country – during an unprecedented international public health emergency.
The writers of House of Cards, Yes Minister or The Thick Of It would struggle to sell as outrageously far-fetched a storyline for their respective TV series’ without losing the audience over the suspension of disbelief. It’s incredible. And it’s almost never brought up in current discourse which I just find absolutely bizarre.
@JusticeForJoe: you’re actually not concerned about them. You have simply found a platform you can corrupt to mistreat others and voice your supremacy. The style and language you take, combined with your choices of words, all prove that you don’t care about others; you just want to be “better than them.” This pandemic created the perfect set of circumstances for you to bully, denigrate and insult people you deem unworthy.
@Frances Casey: Did anyone even refer to anything I actually said? No. Brian just came out with fists swinging because he clearly has his opinion set already. I’m glad the covidiots hate me. It reassures me.
@JusticeForJoe: yes it is great for them. It is often forgotten and rarely mentioned that vast majority of people who get Covid also recover from Covid, and plenty of people have Covid and are never ill with Covid.
@Jim Lingk: It’s never forgotten and it’s always mentioned! The numbers are all on the covid app! Why the hell do you people keep lying this and thinking you’re taking some sort of moral high ground. It’d be laughable if it wasn’t so despicable.
@Vanessa: No they don’t. They reassert what I’ve always been saying myself, which is why Brian and his ilk hate me. I have nothing but disdain and utter contempt for covidiots and Trump fans. The ones who are both hate me twice as much.
I have no problem with anyone else at all. I actually get along very well with most people. Just not on these articles. That’s ok with me.
@JusticeForJoe: To prove my point, you just used derogatory language simply because I don’t lick your boots. I’m fully aware of how dangerous the virus is. What I don’t agree with is governments imposing restrictions while not adhering to them themselves. I don’t agree with bowing down to JusticeForJoe-style populism. I don’t agree with slashing mental health services when they are needed most. I don’t agree with using insults because someone does not agree. I don’t believe in separating families. I do believe non-essential sun holidays should not happen. I do agree large gatherings should not happen. I do agree with masks, distancing, hygiene and vaccines. So, what exactly is your definition of a Covidiot? Because it sounds like anyone who doesn’t 100% agree with you.
@JusticeForJoe: for the record, I don’t support Trump and I don’t hate you. I just wish people like you had a bit of empathy for those struggling right now. Your commentary – including use of derogatory language at nearly every turn – shows signs of a sociopath. You’re highly focused and blinkered and anyone or anything that slightly goes against your opinions are bulldozed to the side to be sneered at and mocked. You show no understanding of how human psychology works when trying to get people on board. Understanding nuance and long term implications are also absent in your thinking. That’s not to say you don’t have those qualities; it’s just that right now, for whatever reason known only to you, you choose not to care about others.
@JusticeForJoe: They don’t hate you. He called out your behaviour. Your claims are without any foundation. If article turning you like that stay away from them until you can reflect on that.
@JusticeForJoe: further, Joe Moore and I are not in the same camp; I do not share many of Joe’s opinions regarding Covid. The difference is that Joe and I can have an actual honest and civil debate, questioning and answering each other. You can’t. The second anyone brings up a question or utters even a slight difference of opinion, you call them a Covidiot and openly question their intelligence without ever even engaging the point. Yes, I came out fists flying today; but only because for several months you have been attacking me and I’ve had enough of your slander, bile and lies. The worst part is that you don’t even seem to realise that you attack almost everyone around you – that is another classic symptom of a sociopath.
I hope that doesn’t mean we are going to be locked in forever. Hopefully this the last lockdown. I have been living in Ireland for several years and I must say people changed.
Irish people used to be more easy going but since that pandemic started people changed a lot. There is so many bad things. I am reading comments here and people getting really upset so easy. For example all that issues with traveling and penalties for breaking the rules. At beginning people were saying 100e is not enough should be 500e week later no 5000 etc.
Than some people were saying no should be prison sentence. I think if someone going away and coming back to Ireland negative PCR test should be ok plus maybe 5 days quarantine in hotel and repeat test after 5 days just to make sure but putting people in hotel for 14 days doesn’t make sens unless government want help hospitality industry this way.
Another thing I have noticed anyone with some uncertainty about vaccine is marked as tin foil hat or Gemma supporter.
Covid is not the same like flu there is no doubt people dying in my wife’s nursing home over 20 people died due the outbreak.
Myself and my family we all got infected I still have a lot issues and I am not sure if they ever go away. I just wondering if people are going to change back I think this pandemic has permanently changed some people mentally.
I am really concerned about my daughter’s if they will able to live in such World. I hope my comment haven’t offended anyone is just my humble opinion.
@artur filip: Every thing you said is completely true. It shouldn’t offend anyone but it should make people take a long hard look at themselves. The vitriol in a lot of comments here at times is horrendous. Everybody blaming everyone else. If anyone dares query lockdowns, vaccines etc they are pounced upon immediately as conspiracy theorists or worse. The nature of this country has changed dramatically in the last year and definitely not for the best.
@artur filip: It’s certainly having a devastating effect in a huge number of ways. It’s happening the world over, though. I don’t think we’re all that unique. I really wish you the very best with your recovery.
@artur filip: I think its the pandemic coupled with social media and using it to fill the time. I’d hope that maybe as life returns to normal the majority won’t have the time to get outraged about the small things anymore. When your living as restricted as we are now people look to social media to fill the gap in their lives and give them a sense of purpose. Once the busy “rat race” of everyday life resumes hopefully we will only be left with the extremists still spreading such vitriol.
@artur filip: People are just under a lot of stress and their true nature gets tossed aside in the mayhem. Things will change back and things will be really good again.
@Vanessa: I know, but with vaccine rollout now and summer coming things should be coming back to semblence of normality. There will still be restrictions for quite some time but it will be an endemic disease that we will just have to live with. Just like all the other ones we lived with before Covid.
Please amend the article to make it accurate. 2.7M people died “with” covid. Not “from” covid.
While tragically the number of deaths with covid this winter in Ireland is significant, it may be reassuring for those who are worried that overall mortality this winter is below average for Ireland. In fact November and December show the lowest sustained average mortality for many years. Source: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/
This is clearly a deadly virus when out of control – but this winter is having nowhere the impact on overall mortality here in Ireland than it did during the first wave.
@Conor Kiely: Why do you think Ireland is no excess deaths while England is extraordinarily high excess and then Scotland is high excess ? Strange don’t you think ?
@Joe Moore: Simply because we are doing a better job at supressing the spread of the virus than England are right now. While the numbers of cases and deaths last April and this January in Ireland look comparable on the graphs – they are not as we are doing 5 times as much testing now as we were then. We pick up a lot of weak positives where the virus is present but people are asymptomatic and do not have the disease. This applies to both case numbers and death numbers. Testing protocols vary across countries and test-kit manufacturers, and the UK’s are different to ours so the covid numbers are not very comparable across countries. January’s spike here was significant – but effectively suppressed by the extent of our lockdown and adherence to same.
@Conor Kiely: This is Misinformed nonsense, it has been corrected multiple times but keeps popping up.
Ireland and most other countries (Russia was an exception, requiring an autopsy which suppresses their true death toll) record deaths from / caused by COVID-19 based on Death Certificates, that list a cause of death i.e. “the underlying causes of death”.
The underlying cause of death and subsequent sequence of conditions / diseases that lead to a death is listed a death certificate in sequence e.g.
A death certificate is filled out by a doctor who treated the patient. The guidenace is provided by the WHO, which most government agencies follow. The international standards allows countries to be compared:
“A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma).”
Notice the guidance says “due to” i.e. from, caused by, the result of. The guidelines also say…
“There should be no period of complete recovery from COVID-19 between illness and death. A death due to COVID-19 may not be attributed to another disease (e.g. cancer) and should be counted independently of pre-existing conditions that are suspected of triggering a severe course of COVID-19″
In Ireland, if a death is subsequently found not to be from COVID-19 a denotification will be issued and a death incorrectly assigned will be removed.
I noticed 4 denotification were issued last week.
Your confusion is probably due the UK’s policy of recoding all deaths within 28 days of a positive test as a Covid-19 death. This is unique to the UK, as far as I know. However, they also have a second list based on Death Certificates, which follows WHO guidance. This is maintained by the Office of National Statistics. Deaths from COVID-19 are similar to the stats for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
@Conor Kiely: “We pick up a lot of weak positives where the virus is present but people are asymptomatic and do not have the disease.”
Testing asymptomatic cases and close contacts was suspended between December 31 and January 29. During this time we only tested cases that had symptoms. So the big increase in infections in January wasn’t due to testing mild or asymptomatic cases (weak positives).
Also, did we see a big jump in infections after we resumed testing close contacts on Jan 29th? No, we did not.
This shows that testing close contacts (some of whom are weak positive) doesn’t contribute much to the number of infections detected, maybe 10%-20%. At least small enough that it wasn’t noticed when resumed testing close contacts.
Also, a weak positive test in a person who is a close contact may be due to them getting tested within their incubation period, before they fall ill with symptoms. That’s the point of contact tracing, finding people before they fall ill and infect others.
In that case they are presymptomatic, not asymptomatic. About 25% of cases remain fully asymptomatic, never experienced symptoms. Asymptomatic cases are likely capable of infecting others, but the rate they do so is unknown but at a likely a fraction of the rate a person who has symptoms. But the risk is there.
@Cono Kiely: “In fact November and December show the lowest sustained average mortality for many years.”
This is also highly misleading.
Euromono data ends in December. But we experienced, so far, 1,420 Covid-19 deaths in January and February. We had 138 Covid-19 deaths in November and 168 Covid-19 deaths in December. That’s why excess deaths in Dec and Nov weren’t increased.
I really would love you to explain why you think statistics for November and December on Euromono somehow prove Covid-19 deaths in January and February didn’t happen.
Please explain.
In fact, RIP shows that excess deaths peaked at 50% higher than normal this January, 150 death notices were posted per day by the end of January, when the average for the time of year should have been 100 per day. In fact, the number of deaths reported in Dublin, in January, was higher than the 1st wave of the outbreak last spring.
“Levels of posting to RIP in South Dublin (Eircodes A94, A96, D14, D18, D16) have surpassed the first wave of the #covid19 pandemic. Dublin South was the least affected region of Dublin in terms of excess mortality in the first wave:
@David Jordan: Now David you are drawing conclusions that I did not infer, and there are some inaccuracies in your responses. Testing of asymptomatic cases was not suspended in January, only close contacts. We did over a half a million tests in January and many were positive but asymptomatic – as would have been alluded to in the daily briefings.
I never said statistics for November and December on Euromono somehow prove Covid-19 deaths in January and February didn’t happen. Where on earth did you get that from? Very misleading response. There have been deaths caused by covid in all these months – and also deaths where people tested positive with covid. Despite your request for me to expIain January’s deaths – I did not mention January deaths in my post at all (apart from stating that January’s spike was significant but we did a good job in suppressing it). I only said that – despite covid – our overall death rate in Nov/Dec was below average – which is quite unusual for Winter months.
Even the HSPC’s own hub reports the total death as “includes probable and possible” and in it’s weekly reports us “Number of deaths among confirmed cases” – not “deaths from covid”.
You’re reacting like I’m some covid denier when I’ve said this is clearly a deadly virus. I’d expect a less reactionary and more considered response. My overall point is that if overall mortality is down – people’s outlook does not need to be so negative. It’s hard enough for folks – and surely a good-news story if less people died from Oct-Dec than normally do?
@Conor Kiely: “Where on earth did you get that from?”
From what you wote…
“While tragically the number of deaths with covid this winter in Ireland is significant, it may be reassuring for those who are worried that overall mortality this winter is below average for Ireland.”
No it’s not below average anymore, as there were 1420 deaths in January – February, with excess deaths posted to RIP peaking at 50% higher than the average for the time of year.
However, I have to admit I was rash in thinking you were claiming this despite a lack of data.
I see on Euromono, data for Ireland continues to February, but as yet the excess deaths in Jan and Feb aren’t picked up on the graph. There must be delay in reporting to Euromono. If we chech back in a few weeks, .I expectthe excess deaths to show up on the graph.
As for the reason why non-Covid deaths were down in November and December,…
Social distancing measures resulted in fewer non-Covid deaths due to far fewer cases of influenza and pneumonia, an ironic benift of the pandemic and the social distancing measures we imposed.
Now thinking about it, since non-Covid deaths are down, that means the excess deaths connected to Covid-19, seen in January and February on RIP, are greater than inferred from the increase over the 5-year average. The baseline is lower, so Covid-19 deaths are somewhat higher then the 50 deaths per day initially calculated.
“How COVID-19 is changing the cold and flu season”
“Measures meant to tame the coronavirus pandemic are quashing influenza and most other respiratory diseases, which could have wide-ranging implications.”
@David Jordan: there you go again David. I specifically mention November and December as having lower than average death rates but you ignore this and nitpick at my reference to “winter” by quoting January statistics, despite my referencing the January spike, and despite these 2 months (Nov/Dec) having the highest monthly reported covid death rates in the 2nd half of the year. Crikey – talk about extinguishing any little crumb of positivity ….
Is it really the vaccine that has caused a drop in cases? It hasn’t been given to that many people. Or is it that we are locked down and realising that we need to take it seriously? I still see college age people clustering outdoors unmasked at take-outs, but I also see more people masking on the street.
@Rathminder: we are the equivalent of a small town in terms of population compared with the likes of India. Their cases are plummeting even though social distancing and lockdowns are virtually impossible there. That gives me hope that previous infection in the community can give some future immunity.
The EU experts need to shut up and hang their collective heads in shame ! How many people in Europe are dead now because they could not manage the procurement of the various vaccines or the timely rollout ?
The UK are actively trying to persuade their last unwilling vulnerable people to please come and take the job as they want to have 15 million vaccinated by Monday ! And all we do is sit and wait.
History will write the European effort as a Disastrous Failure.
@Seamus Mac: Good question . We are told it would be chaotic and we would be at the end of the queue as a smaller country . I don’t believe that’s true . Despite any differences I think the UK would supply us with the AZ independently and we would be looked on favourably by other producers too. I just think we are slavishly following the EU’s say so while they are admitting their culpability and , of course , it would involve a lot of effort .. something there’s not much of on offer at Leinster House.
With the vaccine role out, we should almost be at the end. At least that what I keep reading in all the comments. Looks like it will take a long while.
@Virgil: unfortunately I think not. If any thing I get the impression that restrictions will be ramped up. There has been a slow quiet move recently to down play any positive outcomes the vaccines may have and that is concerning. I have been positive to now on a return to some semblance of normalcy but in reality I see nothing opening in a meaningful way this year anyway. I’d say the next great saviour to be rolled out will be based on treatments and we will be still locking down until that great hope runs out of steam. What’s after? I really don’t know.
No $h1t Sherlock. Of course it’s going to remain with us. It’s time the government started planning for getting us out of this and actually living with Covid rather than rolling lockdowns. It can’t go on.
So in other words shaming people for using public transport or walking in the Wicklow mountains is going to continue forever? And people who use aeroplanes are going to be criminals forever?
Please give it a rest. We’re already stuck at home for another few months at least as cases fall across Europe. There’s several vaccines all with ~90% efficacy being rolled out at pace across the world. Why the hell should it be with us indefinitely? Messages like this from people who wield power are more likely to make people give up than comply
Evolution of a species, in the face of an exterior force, doesn’t have to remain in a one state of reaction. That’s why we call it evolution. Hopefully we will evolve /react to the virus as a species that best suits us, as a whole.
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