We should wait for nuclear fusion technology. It’s clean. A reactor is currently being built in France. It is the same process that powers our sun!

The test ITER reactor is being built at present indeed. But realistically it could be at least 50 years or so before testing is complete and a viable commercial reactor is available to connect to the grid. And the physicists behind it consider that to be wildly optimistic.

While I would love to wait for fusion power I think nuclear fission should be used for now until fusion is viable. Hopefully much sooner than anticipated.

Give up on it, guys. Not going to happen. Because if it did the countruction site would become ground zero for every crusty, every political nutjob and every head-the-ball in the country and further afield. Boyd-Barrett and Ming would make careers out of it. We’d have about two decades of experts contradicting each other ,”concerned residents” who want all benefits of civilisation but none of the technlogy needed to make it happen spoiling the view and of course the flat out batshit insane with nothing better to do all day.

Look at the screaming match that is the abortion “debate”. This would be ten times worse.

Conor

Time is something we don’t have. Michael Kumhof, chief research economist at the IMF has recently produced a report on Peak Oil. He was interviewed here: (report linked in the article)

http://peakoil.com/generalideas/peak-oil-warning-from-an-imf-expert-interview-with-michael-kumhof/

To say the situation is dire is about as big an understatement as it gets – ever. Kumhof suggests that it is a cast iron certainty that production will begin declining at 2% per year by 2030 at the latest – more likely much sooner. In economics terms, as everything we do not just relies on energy, but +energy growth+, the effects of this will make the current global crisis & recession look like a Paddy’s day party.

We have had absolute proof in the handling of the financial crisis & recession that Ireland’s authorities (in common with their peers elsewhere) are entirely self-serving & could care less about the majority of citizens.

The fact that Ireland has massive dependence on imported fuels & has been warned about peak oil & its effects for over a decade & done flat nothing is further proof that any notion of democracy ‘for the people’ is utterly non-existent.

We heading for a wall of pain & suffering. Much of this we (and the rest of the world) are too late to avoid. We should be mustering every last resource we have, on a ‘war production’ basis, to try & ameliorate what we can. Yet it is not anywhere on the agenda of Ireland’s economists (still believing we will have an economy which can pay bank losses for decades to come!) or Ireland’s political leaders or public servants or mainstream media.

There is no real shortage of money tokens (at the currency issuing level – the Eurozone in our case). Our only limitation is the quantity of +real+ resources we can bring to bear – as every nation that has ever fought a war knows.

I believe Philip Walton is correct regarding the safety case for nuclear energy, and I’m not against it per se. However, when the sh1t hits the fan (the first year energy production cannot meet demand) every country in the world will be scrambling for real resources for alternative energy production. Each country will be left with only the resources it already has. Ireland has no nuclear power industry capability whatsoever. On a realistic 15 to 20 year timescale, that makes it, unfortunately, a non-starter imo – that capability will simply not be available for us to purchase (or at a price we could pay).

Without delay, our priority should be to use every existing labour & material resource we have. We have some gas. We should aim to use that here, not export it, whilst we develop the variety of renewables, wind, wave, biogas etc. As already pointed out, beyond the finite gas resources, reliable base load is going to be our biggest challenge.

Given the wind farm that Element Power are building a wind farm in the midlands that will export energy to England, as much as the state uses now. Eddie o’Connors Mainstream is working on an energy bridge that will export the same.

I’ve no real problem with Nuclear, it has a place but do we actually need it, cheap electricity is going to be one of our main exports in years to come and the great thing about wind is that the rewards are spread more evenly in the economy. Landowners getting so much for having a turbine on site. Engineers working across the country in maintenance. Irish companies retaining most of the profir.

Nuclear will just be a French, German or British co. fewer jobs, less money circulating in economy and more going out.

Given the wind farm that Element Power are building a wind farm in the midlands that will export energy to England, as much as the state uses now. Eddie o’Connors Mainstream is working on an energy bridge that will export the same.

I’ve no real problem with Nuclear, it has a place but do we actually need it, cheap electricity is going to be one of our main exports in years to come and the great thing about wind is that the rewards are spread more evenly in the economy. Landowners getting so much for having a turbine on site. Engineers working across the country in maintenance. Irish companies retaining most of the profir.

Nuclear will just be a French, German or British co. fewer jobs, less money circulating in economy and more going out.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1008/1224325014171.html

Nuclear fusion is about 40yrs away

Absolutely right,fossil fuels are a diminishing resource and as that becomes more acute so will the cost of procuring them.Electricity prices have just increased again and this will continue to happen more frequently .We are almost totally reliant on outside suppliers and most of them are in regions of notorious instability.We purchase power from the UK through Wales some of which is Nuclear generated.In delivering electricity to homes there is always some risk so you minimize the risk,this also applies to Nuclear power.It’s clean,cheap(when you amatise the cost over say thirty years)and low risk when handled properly and we would be self sufficient,we could even sell surplus power back to the U.K.France generates considerable revenue selling power to Germany and others.I believe we should revisit this area and go for it.We can source the expertise from outside Ireland in fact that would be better and safer as we are not great at following strict protocols and regulations which would be required.I am a retired electrical engineer trained and worked in electricity generation outside iIreland.

Had a great weekend at Carnsore Point back in the day :-)

Hi there Tertullian ?,

If the cost per Kilo Watt was 2 cent here, our Government would have sold it to somebody else and we would end paying high prices for it.

The other consideration is, would you trust the Irish Government to run such a venture and to adequately secure it now that they have demobbed most of the Defence Forces and add that to the cuts in Gardai, we would be an open door for terrorists and the like.

I like the idea of cheaper fuel costs, unfortunately it would never happen here in the Dictatorial State we now live in.

Sadly we do not have the will or the expertese to run such a project here when you add that to all the restrictions that could be placed in it’s way, it will be many years away, if ever it gets the go ahead.

No will, no way.

Why can’t we have both?

When the uranium runs out (which wont be in our lifetime) thorium resourses can be exploited.

Wave and tidal energy are still in the early stages, wind is unreliable. I think its a great idea. However with high capital cost, i think we would need an emergency budget to pay for it.

Three words, Vortex Hydro Energy.

One website: http://www.vortexhydroenergy.com/

Ireland would be an ideal place to develop a widespread installation.

The lead time would be considerably shorter if the NIMBY crowd were ignored.
There is enough nuclear fuel for thousands of years.
Japan is geologically unstable, and has a culture of corporate secrecy that compounded its problems at Fukushima.

Why do you say “we’re maxed out on wind”? As we have a very low percentage of wind generated power and we’ve barely started to build offshore wind farms.
I agree that we need to look at other renewable sources like hydro/wave.

An oireachtas report? Teachers, publicans and auctioneers wrote a report on biogas energy?

Bord gais are extolling the virtues of using gas for electricity production?

It must be good so!

Hi Andrew very good points. A number of points on them. Yes Uranium is a finite resource however the time frame with reprocessing is in the 100s of years, 2 ten years is abit optimistic. Probably be closer to 25 years. There is waiting lists on getting the expertise in building them, So really it is something we have to decide on now. Indeed the power produced is probably to much for the Irish grid and would require full intergration into the british Grid. But so do renewables. Finally it does involve importing fuel. But we import alot of things. The major issue with importing energy like oil is securtiy of supply. However unlike oil most Uranium comes from countries like Canada and Oz who we have good relations with, Also stockpiling of Uranium is very easy to OIl. Biogas is not a prefect solution either, if we start having to move food land to energy land it will effect food prices.

Martin, as Dougal had to be told….MoviesReality

and in another few years we’ll be stabilizing their energy network by supplying vast amounts of energy via windfarms that are currently being developed in the midlands. Energy will be one of largest exports.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1008/1224325014171.html

Wind energy is a bit of a red herring. Its capital intensive and as a source, wind is not reliable. Not to mention the fact that the turbines cannot be used during high wind.

We have it. It’s called the sun. Suitably located, I might add.

Energy from the Sun is far too expensive except for specialised purposes, such as solar powered phones on motorways. Sun doesn’t shine much in Ireland in December.

http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates.html

Fascinating ideas that bill gates is working on involving waste from spent uranium

Incidentally bill gates idea is using the copious amounts of spent nuke fuel to fuel these new plants, he is not advocating new Nuke plants, he just wants to use the waste that out there at the moment,

@David, why do you think France are moving away from nuclear?

From what i have heard its the opposite.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/nuclear/france-doubles-down-on-nuclear-power

I also hear that the Japanese are unlikely to give up nuclear either since they have no fossil fuel, and powering their entire country’s huge energy needs only using renewables seems like a stretch.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/12/japan-likely-heading-for-pro-nuclear.html

@tim. see link. france want to reduce reliance on nuke power from 75% to 50% by 2050

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2012/12/french-reactor-cost-rises-dramatically-wind-energy-now-cheaper-than-new-nuclear

@ tim your first article seem to be from july 2011, attitudes towards nuke power have changed since japans accident. even though that was a freak occurrence. There is no way in hell that the Japanese people would allow another nuke plant to be built given what has happened.

David, they’ll forget the Tsunami and when they start freezing from the cold, they’ll go back to Nuclear. It’s been said above. There is no other practical solution.

Don’t worry, the EU would stop us building one. In case of a accident contagion would spread to Europe proper.

A dam disaster will kill for a day or two , a nuclear disaster will kill and sicken for centuries…

Here ya go, pal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster_effects

Read that if you get a chance. It might keep you from making an utter fool of yourself again some day.

We don’t need the expertise, French companies can build and maintain nuclear plants. Also ridiculous saying we don’t have expertise, we can learn. I wonder will you consider the 2 billion aLot of money when you see your electricity bill rise month after month due to the inevitable rise in demand for fossil fuels. We are far to dependent on fossil fuels, in typical Irish fashion, we will ignore all warning signs of fossil fuel energy and its rising cost. It will take at least ten – fifteen years to build a nuclear power plant. We need to seriously start considering it now, I am very in favour for it

Apparently the Japs are moving away from nuclear, so they’ll have a few trained workers looking for jobs.

where’s me guitar christy.
i’m off to carna to protest

Generating electricity from wind has many downsides and Mr Rabbitte and the Irish energy companies will have to explain eventually why they’re ignoring peoples wishes and why they are distorting current scientific and environmental facts about wind and its true environmental and economic cost…less consumption is the only realistic solution.

The ‘Greenwire’ project: UK Tories plan to outsource wind power energy to Ireland
http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=12978

Quote:
MINISTER FOR Energy Pat Rabbitte accused United Left Alliance TD Clare Daly of trying to slander an energy company involving former Labour Party members.

Ms Daly had asked the Minister about his plans to enable the State sector, including the ESB, to develop the offshore wind industry. She said she had attended a meeting in Mullingar, Co Westmeath, on Wednesday night at which farmers were asked for sites for wind turbines from Mainstream Renewable Power and other energy groups.
Quote:
“What does the Minister have to say about this company, headed by former Labour party members Brendan Halligan and Eddie O’Connor, which stands to make substantial profits, potentially tens of billions of euro, from this resource?” she asked.

“It is important to yet again correct Professor Waltons assertions that “It is foreseen there will be difficulties in generating more than 50 per cent of our electricity from wind.” “.

Your correction is itself incorrect. EirGrid consistently state that it will be “challenging” (read “almost impossible”) for allow wind to generate 75% of our electricity at any one time. The current limit is just over 50%. And even if they achieved 75% occasionally, that would result in wind producing only 40% of our electricity on average over the year.

So, we are still left with over 60% to be supplied from somewhere.

The solution is not a question of wind or nuclear. We will need both. And probably some gas and Carbon Capture and Storage plants which have yet to be developed.

I can understand why the Irish Wind Energy Association is campaigning against nuclear power in Ireland, as you view the much lower of costs of nuclear as a major threat. But you should really be encouraging nuclear as it is one of the few technologies that would allow us to use even more wind power while still keeping overall energy costs competitive.

Limerick.

Watchin 2 much simpsons. You should change your name to little brained Jim

Not true about the French, they are 70% nuclear and not daft enough to give it up.
As for the Germans, they are gearing up to burn lots and lots of filthy coal to replace their low carbon nuclear reactors, and will still buy nuclear from their neighbours (at a premium) makes absolutely no sense.
Even the Japanese are having second thoughts about giving up nuclear since they have no fossil fuel and renewable to power the whole Japan is laughable.

Mary, yes, you were, and still are, being lied to by organisations that claimed that they were helping children damaged by Chernobyl. There is no evidence what so ever that any children were “born with birth defects” caused by Chernobyl. Even the dozen or so who died from Thyroid Cancer could have been saved but the Communists refused to hand out the Iodine tablets that would have protected their thyroid glands because they tried to keep the accident a secret. Those children died primarily because of the secrecy inherent in all totalitarian states.

I grew up less than 10 miles from one.

And no, I’m not sure if that should be seen as a condemnation of nuclear or an endorsement either.

Yes Canada and Australia do have interesting politics

Come on Mary admit it, you just made all that up.

Radiation doesn’t last too long either. What material does stay behind emits very little radiation. If you think about it, which you obviously haven’t, you would realise that the most dangerous material decays the fastest and is quickly gone. Low level radiation is not dangerous at all.

Higher population = more birth defects

Mums are generally older in the Greater Dublin area. This leads to a greater incidence of chromosomal defects, e.g. Down Syndrome. It’s not from radiation. (See http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0501/1224315408211.html)

Cigarettes don’t cause cancer, it’s the diesel exhaust you breathe standing outside to smoke, right?

We are actually not in danger from sellafield.

Rates of cancers are higher in populations living on the eastern seabord.

Rates of DART related injuries are also higher on the East coast

Good thinking, Tony. Look, we’re all going to die anyway, so let’s just start passing around pistols now! Think of the money we’ll save on groceries!!

Mary, where did you get that information? To suggest it’s linked to Sellafield is absurd.

This article has been linked to on the pronuclearlobbyweekly.com and massiveconspiracytodestroyireland.org websites.

Michelle, pie in the sky is thinking we will use less power. The “horrible waste” represents the size of a bar of soap if every person got all their energy from NP for all of their lives. What’s the problem in putting it back where it came from, in the ground.

The same argument you made can be made for windmills.