Or what about a new tagline
“ehhh, We’ve decided. Its Franfurts way”

Charlie…housing bubble..caused by whom? Anglo Irish Bank and BAILOUT and really stupid people who thought that values could only go up!
Fianna Fail / Fine Gael is one and done.

More like Gilmore and party for the knackers yard

Nice one Charlie!

Interesting. Labour would be better served if they stopped the infighting and started selling their role in Government instead of appearing to be embarrassed by it.

They appear embarrassed because they’re showing their true colours, and it’s not what they claimed to be. Labour should have remained in opposition instead of going into partnership with FG.

Exactly Vincent. Labour appears to be running on two separate strands at the moment. The stickies breaking former promises and the other party members and those at the coal face. Leadership does not exist in the party as a whole. maybe in cabinet but 4 members losing the whip is just a start. Councillors speaking against party and govt decisions on media too. It will end tragically for Lab unless they get their act together.

They should be embarrassed. Maybe if the went hunting a dug up the backbone that mythology says they had at one time and started leading instead of “having no opinion on anything” then they just might survive the next election… As for the majority of sheep in the country blindly following three school teachers pretending to know about economics. well theres no answer for them… They seem to be swallowing the “we’ll be out of the bailout at the end of next year”…. Wait till they find out what that actually means. It means we STOP getting money and start Austerity in earnest to PAY it back.

To be fair to Labour I think they answered their country’s call. They knew the nation needed stability and set aside an awareness that politically they would have prospered as the opposition party. It’s to their credit.

Oh please…. Answered their countries call?…. We didnt call for stability, we called for change…. We got a labour party who stands for nothing except getting elected and getting into power….. Thats more of the same…

Not sure about that Vincent at all. I believe that might have been their noble intention but they have pulled the rug from under their voters. By the way I calculate that at a 36% drop of party support since election-time. Pretty severe and if gilmore/rabbitte don’t take their head out of the sand the local elections will devastate the party for a decade. Time to put the big wellies on.

100% GDP for 2012 so far is failure.

Record numbers unemployed is failure.

Record numbers leaving the country is failure [and the only reason the unemployment rate isn't over 17%]

In other words — FF & FG are a failure.

Una- all those issues are legacies left by FF. If you believed they would all be sorted in 18 months, you’re some optimist. It will take a generation to undo what FF did. But FG can’t be blamed. On their watch we’re making progress. There was never a magic wand solution.

34 percent condone criminal activity

FG cant be blamed….. Same aold politics…. Vincent while your regurgitating the spin from your betters you need to understand whats actually going on…. They are telling you that the rates are dropping, cue you and the sheep jumping up and down bleating. They tell you we’ll be out of the bailout programme next year, cue more bleating and jumping. They tell you we’ll have our financial soveriegnty back, more bleating etc. It will all be done on the Fine Gaelabour party watch, cue jumping and even louder bleating….. Now if you actually take a look at what will really happen… We exit the bailout mechanism with our soverign assets stripped and sold. We stand bare with “the bank deal” which will amount to extra years thrown on top of the debt or some other clever seight of hand with a fancy name that amounts to the same thing. We’ll then start the REAL austerity as we have nothing of value left to our name and 30 years of crushing bank/politician debt to pay off with an interest rate that may seem small but actually amounts to approx 3 times the original debt. This country is looking at 3 decades conservatively of no growth and crippling taxes on the few left working… That is what the Fianna Gaelabour Party is signing us up to…. But you refuse to see that, you’d rather be a govt lemming….

#Charlie what you need to understand is that the bailout ship has sailed. We’ve taken the same approach as all the other EU countries in our position. It’s done. This Government can only be assessed on how they manage the process going forward. So far, they’re making progress.

Vincent Dolan

FINE GAEL continue the handover to Bondholders without a fight. In this world unlike how Blueshirts prefer to think, there are winners and losers. You either produce results or you’re fired.

#Una. Paying the bondholders is a condition of our bailout money. Without it there would be no bailout, we would have no money, would go bankrupt, we’d be an international pariah who noone would do business with and the famine would look like the good old days. it’s a necessary evil not of FG’s making. If you’re going to pontificate you need to get your facts right.

Poor labour, catching a disease from FG called VD!

#Stephen…well, being a dick, I suppose you’d know all about STD’s, Krusty.

You see thats just it Vincent. It hasnt sailed. It hasnt even begun to sail. It sails once we exit the bailout… Then the real bailout begins. When we begin to pay it all back….. This bailout hasnt even begun yet. All we’ve seen here is the giving of money to the banks….. Now we start the payback…. can you not see this train wreck coming? Or do you really believe it all ends next year????????

You talk about Pariahs that nobody will do business with because we default…. Yet iceland defaulted and went through 18 months of what we are calling austerity but what most sane rational people call poverty. They now have the highest growth rate they’ve seen in years. Almost twice the growth rate of any country in the eurozone. Their mortgage default rate is lower now than it ever was because when they told the foreign lender to sling their hook they also took a slash hook to everyones mortgage and reduced it to market price levels. They could do this because they let the banks that were “too big to fail”…fail…. And then quickly moved to set up two new banks in the very same buildings leaving the bailout debt to die with the old banks… Yes the english and the dutch who bailed these banks out are jumping up and down looking for their money. They have been given the names and addresses of the board members of the two private banks that failed and told to go after the people that they lent their money too…..They are not pariahs.. the sky didnt fall… In fact every country will deal with them The very same countries that wont touch us with a ten foot barge pole right now. So again regurgitating what the the two school teachers kenny and noonan are telling you just doesnt hold water. It didnt hold water when the two failed solicitors in the last government said and still doesnt today…. But being true leaders and taking the people with them as they burn the speculators and lead Ireland out of this mess in 18 months doesnt get you a cushy charlie mcreavey type job in europe does it…. So kenny and noonan will do what they have to ensure their own future, even if it does raise suicides, even if it does shut down the health service, even if it does take garda off the street and let the small time crooks rule their neighbourhoods like warlords…. Thats what is happening, all of it. right now and all because kenny and noonan have not an ounce of an idea how to get us out of this mess….

VD only believes one thing and that’s FG. He is like a Brainwashed child, that points a finger and accuses others of being lefty’s, Krusty’s etc. etc. People like him, are afraid of others that have a mind of their own and an opinion. That’s why parties like FG/FF/Labour are insecure, all they can do is Lie, mislead and break promises. It’ll be too late, when VD wakes up. Poor guy, I feel sorry for him having no mind of his own and being Brainwashed!

#Stephen I think Fine Gael probably don’t feel too insecure this morning thanks to Red C. For the record I know you have a mind of your own. Such a pity you keep half of it in a jar beside your bed since your lobotomy. Get well soon Coco.

Typical fine gael view of the electorate I’d say…..

Budgets being formulated by concerns about polling data is what got us into this mess. Hopefully the parties will resist playing to the crowd in the future and the electorate will no longer reward those who irresponsibly try to buy their vote.

Vincent is the crowd not the electorate?

Politicians are voted in to lead, not to follow. Populist orientated decision making is the worst popular kind. The courage to make the tough, unpopular decisions is what defines truly great Government. The people get to pass judgement on these decisions every five years. What you. Ant have is the Fianna Fáil model whereby economic considerations are secondary to political priorities. No?

.http://youtu.be/-veotgQwjXQ Kenny would get no support from Home Help women who will get their wages & hours cut, so were were noisy at councillors in Cork city Hall. Fianna Fail are pretending to oppose the Home & water taxes (“wrong tax at the wrong time”), Fine Gael because their supporters feel boosted by Time Magazine cover & Bondholder’s ‘European Of the year Award’ while 50% of those surveyed say Ireland ” is on the wrong track, and 9% did not know.
Red C also asked how strongly committed supporters of the two coalition parties are.
39% of Fine Gael voters are loyal, while 46% say they are becoming disillusioned, and 15% are losing faith.
By contrast, only 14% of Labour voters are loyal, 52% are becoming disillusioned, and 34% say they are losing faith in the party.” so Labour’s supporting is plummeting rapidly

While what you’re saying is true in principle Vincent, the government have, and continue to avoid the truly hard decisions. They don’t know how to lead.

#Ola. Home help is a fantastic service. No question. But this government inherited problems of epic proportions. The sad reality is there will be lots more equally unpopular (and morally wrong) cuts. But the reality is there’s no money in the kitty. I’m not sure FG can be blamed.

So FG blame FF. FF blame the EU and the EU blames the Irish people…… Funny not a mention of Anglo, AIB, BOI, National Irish bank, KBC, Ulster bank, RBS, Sean Fitzpatrick, Drumm, Financial regulator, KPMG, PWC, EU central bank, German banks, French banks, English banks, Insurance companies, Boards of directors of all the above in any of the blame…… Yet it was these rotten gangsters who orchestrated all of this in the first place…… They’ve all be handsomely rewarded for their efforts….. All of them….

@vincent you cant blame fg because there is no money in the kitty? i remember them saying not another cent to the bondholders but they are still paying out billions.maybe if they didnt break their promises there would be money in the kitty.

#Graham- sadly it’s not FG running the show re: bond holders. It’s a condition to our funding. FG didn’t bring about the economic catastrophe that surrendered our economic sovereignty to them.

5 more years…5 more years! FG! FG!…Cue the red thumbs from the provo/communist/fraggle rock alliance….

Toorkeel under our system the maximum between elections is 5years.An election at the lastest is due i believe Feb 2016 if they last that long.Just slightly more than 3years max left.

Indeed Norman….hence 5 more years next time round…

There is still another 4 years. The FF idiot voters are not fired up to vote like they were in 2002…losing those, Independents, women, 18-29 yr olds and, the 20% of the Irish population have not gotten all of the “deals” FF promised them, ergo, they are going to vote SF / ULA.

Vincent, FG knew the conditions attached to the funding as much as Fianna Fáil did, as much as the rest of us did. “Not another red cent” was a lie designed to get votes. As was “Labour’s way or Frankfurt’s way”.

In hindsight it was blatantly obvious there was something wrong. When fine gael had to overpromise and lie to win a one horse race of an election it was always going to end badly.

The governments hard decisions in action:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/noonan-told-to-extend-tax-relief-on-mortgages-3276751.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/kenny-asks-shatter-to-meddle-in-family-case-3276736.html

Toorkeel’s comments are a prime example of how dumb the FG supporters really are. Back to your crayons now good lad.

@Martin…Good One..so so easy to wind you people up…ta ta for now….

If voting for FF / FG is like the first time you have sex, it’s very difficult to lose your virginity twice. A flailing, pitiful campaign has now adopted Queen Victoria’s supposed wedding advice to her daughter: “Lie back and think of England.” Lie back and think of Europe. And then get up and get dressed. Who wants to sleep with a €130 billion broke loser twice?

Can you explain it now ?

Please help us, oh wise one!

“I’m not normally a praying man, but if you’re up there…….save me Superman!!!”

50 % of the country think we’re heading in the wrong direction and Fine Gael supporters think this is good also good to see labour taking a drop hopefully to follow the Greens have never come across a government so far disconnected from what’s happening at the grass roots , but why would they care just secretly given themselves a pay and expense rise and a week off next week things have never been better Enda who are you fooling just keep doing what Angela says and she will give you plenty more accolades .Fine Gael the party driven by false promises and directed by Europe .

Explain please how Enda Kenny is lining his own pocket by serving his country. One concrete example please.

I’d hardly call what he’s doing “serving his country”…. €300,000 per year with expences is “lining his own pockets” in any mans language.

Most Chief Executives in the private sector get paid considerably more. You need look no further than Bertie Ahern to see the dangers of having a Taoiseach with money problems.

I work in the private sector and if a company was on its knees like the way Ireland is the CEO wouldnt be making that sort of money. He’d be on the a sticky wicket to keep his job. The stakeholders would be demanding growth or be gone. Getting awards for European German of the year wouldnt be looked on too kindly either. Neither would informing the shareholders that he guaranteed a “might be” deal on the companies debts with no clue what the deal is. Also crucifying the workforce to the point of lower productivity wouldnt be a plus on the scorecard either….. Comparing Enda Kenny to a private Sector CEO is the wrong way to go… You see we expect results in the private sector which is something that a career civil servant just wouldnt be able to get his around. Alien concept unfortunatly.

That’s not true. A CEO in the private sector inheriting the mistakes of his predecessor would certainly not be on a sticky wicket. He’d need time & resources to fix what went wrong & would, as I said be paid a whole lot more than €300k. You don’t have to like Enda Kenny. You don’t have to agree with his approach. But his motivation is beyond question.

Sorry Vincent did I imply that party/parties where lining there pockets. Well I have yet to see how any of there policies have helped anyone but themselves including all ministers from finance to transport to health to social protection to name but a few. If you can give some examples of policies that have helped the people instead of plundering and extorting them then please let me know.

Well they got the interest rates reduced on our loans. That helped everyone. I await your concrete example of how the Government is “helping only themselves.”

Sorry Vincent the private sector doesnt do “Time & money” to fix the problem. The CEO would be expected to show concrete result of growth very quickly. But your right about Kenny heart being in the right place. But I cant ignore the fact the both he and those around him are hoplessly in over their heads. Having his heart in the right place doesnt excuse both lack of comptence to undertsnad the problem or lack of experience to be able to deal with it. Something else that isnt rewarded or allowed to happen in the private sector. This guy is drunk on power and doesnt have a plan to get us out. He’s flailing in the wind and resorting back to the failed policies of the previous government where two failed solicitors couldnt comprehend what was going on either.

The interest rates were reduced for two reasons. 1. the financial industry sees Ireland as a soft touch and an easy target for larger scale pillaging and yes that was because of Kenny so I’ll give you that. Secondly they reduced interest rates because the EU gave a vague promise they would do something about the debt which frightened the larger institutions because it was them who would take the hit. Now we continue on as before and will for the foreseeable. The debt deal will amount in time to a longer term debt which suits the markets as the interest gained from the debt will be more substantial which will keep Ireland in a debt/bailout strnaglehold for longer…… Am I the only person who can see this or does everybody else just believe the hype and spin from govt?

Since when were they our loans, I think you mean bank loans and promises. (It’s sounds like a bad non fiction novel) The government is “great” they are running the country and appeasing everyone of our foreign masters. Hurrah!

#Human being. You mightn’t like it. I don’t like it. But our democratically elected FF Government guaranteed the banks. And it became our debt.

Yeah the same as it ever was Vincent, “5 points plan” “labour’s way”. I won’t buy that pup the next time they are selling it thanks but no thanks. Anyone but the fine fiannas labour and fein. So I guess independents all the way in three and a half years time if the power doesn’t get too much for the lot of them before then.

I see Vincent here is The Party’s spokesman tonight . I would love to see you do the work of a home help woman OR even look after a loved one without their restricted help. There is plenty of money in this country Plenty. Only it is being held back to protect the Elite corporations and very wealthy.Oh and pay off corrupt politicians bankers developers .

#Eileen…and I’d like you to pay your taxes and contribute to the provision of the services, the quality/provision of which you are bemoaning. But since you aren’t paying your fair share I guess that’s a long shot.

Vincent
I do and always have paid my taxes . Is that the best comeback you have ?
No comment about the ladies whose hard work is being besmirched by the government? No comment about the closure of A+E s around the country and the cutbacks on Ambulance services, not to forget the closing of Garda stations around the country. The reduction of starting pay for new teachers is also another issue you can not condone surely ? these examples are only the tip of the iceberg. People are frightened at the prospect of the upcoming budget, any words of comfort Vincent?
Mind you FG are doing very well in the polls .Yeah right . Labour is down minus 8 . A big split is on the cards I hope.

#Eileen – if you haven’t paid your household charge you’re not paying your full obligation for services. Simple as that.

So by your logic Vincent , the €100 IS for central funding ? Therefore what we know to be true is being acknowledged by you ,that it is being used to go to pay off unsecured bondholders and dead banks. ? Well well well.
I suggest that you take a long deep look at the motives of the party you support and ask yourself how life would be for you if you were say a home help lady , and working the hours they work , meeting the people (not case numbers) they meet with the charges they must pay ,go on examine your conscience .

And Charlie, there is no way Kenny would get a position of CEO with his level of competence – only getting his current position due the monumental failure of FF and even then needed clever marketing men to make him spout shite like the 5 point plan instead of engaging in real debate

#No Eileen, read what I said rather than listening to the little voices in your head. I pointed out you’re a hypocrite- giving out about cutbacks in services while refusing to pay for them via the household charge. I didn’t mention centralised funds. You are part of the services problem by breaking the law & not paying your fair share.

She is breaking the law Vincent but its an unjust law. So it is her duty to break it. The only way an oppressive regime understands is when their access to funds is cut off. We’ve seen that with Uganda. Our own oppressive regime is laughingly demanding its money back from another regime to teach it lesson. Our generation is ruined that can’t be fixed. But to purposely ruin two more generations to appease markets is the most un patriotic thing I’ve ever seen. We have been offered nothing by europe in this mess but hardship. Anything we have gotten from them has been because of other nations having the courage to stand up to these unelected, undemocratic tyrrants whose God is money. We had a glimmer of what is possible last week when the nation sirred in its slumber over merkles gaff. They quickly jumped to change the story back to the vague cloudy bank deal. It shows that they are frightened when pushed. They were terrified their little apple cart was about to be shaken… Its time to push harder.

I will say one thing Vincent from reading all of your posts…. You have absolutley no answer to our current situation and when pushed all you do is throw up the same old rhetoric that is being fed by your masters and its obvious you have no understanding of where that course of action leads…. I’ve pointed it out to you several times but you dont want to know and again just bleat the same worn out phrases your master spout. “Breaking the Law”, “Its Fianna Fails fault”, “The troika demand”, “The bailout demands” etc etc etc…. Stop doing that, we dont believe it and we never will. There is and always has been a better way… The problem for you and your master is that it doesnt include bailing out banks, looking after the eu or getting your masters pats on the back from the foreigners…. It aims to look after the people…..

The fist sign of maddness is doing or in this case saying the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result.

You don’t get to pick & choose which laws you adhere to and you don’t get to decide which are just or not. The democratically elected Government does that. And if Eileen is going to refuse to pay for services she has no moral authority to comment on those services.

#Sorry, Charlie. I refuse to live in the land of make believe where there are magical, easy solutions. You lot point to Iceland as some sort of Utopia. You neglect to note that Spain, Portugal, Italy & Greece are pursuing exactly the same course as us. I’m sorry if you regard it as tired rhetoric- but the reason you hear it so much is that it is so universally agreed upon by sensible people living in the real world. Equally, I’m sorry if my answers aren’t comprehensive enough for you. Truth is, I lose the will to live about half way through each of your bible length pontificating and it can be hard to summon the enthusiasm to engage with someone so patently enslaved in ” I wish it were so” political ideology.

Yes she does…. Thankfully we live in a democracy where neither you nor the government get to pick who has an opinion or not and our legal right to free speech is enshrined…. I wonder how long under your type of government would democracry really become a severe hinderance?… When the protests start in earnest we’ll see how many human rights are violated with lame excuse such as yours….

# Charlie. She has the legal right for sure. I said she lacked the moral authority. That’s the problem with lefties. Ye want everything for nothing. It’s why the left is mercifully so marginalised in Ireland.

I cant say I’m surprised that comprehensive solutions to a problem bore you…. I don’t do meaningless sound bites like “5 point plans”, “Labours way or Frankfurts way”, “Get Ireland working, “Yes for jobs”….. You lot demand an explaination of an alternative answer but crumble quickly when one is given… You’d rather live in Sound bite ignorance…. Oh and on the Greek, spain, Portugal situation. The only reason we’ve got anything is because they have pushed back. Greece have been given an extension of two years to get their house in order because the eu bankers are terrified to actually do what they threatened. Spain is getting what it wants and they’re throwing us the scraps from that table…. You need to read a bit more than the fine gael pamphlet on whats going on….

At what point did I say I was left wing…. I’m a business owner I’m entitled to nothing under this regime if my business goes belly up. This government has waged a war on indigenous jobs for the last 18 months… If I was a foreign mutinational I’d get everything for nothing, Half of my employees wages paid, Kitted out offices, Tax breaks for decades and photo shoots with eejit bruton…. Instead I’m an indigenour Irish company. No tax breaks, a govt micro finance loan option which has an interest rate that is 1900% above the ECB rate (Extortion). I pay huge amounts of PRSI for that I get nothing. The revenue demands I pay them before anything that will keep the biz alive or my workers fed. The list is endless….. So you might want to ask before you call me lefty.

#Charlie- like so many of your kind you just like the sound of your own voice.

So still no answers…. Just insults about “my kind” even though you have no clue who I am. Thats all the might you have. Thats your answer to alternative solutions….. insults…. Your in the right party alright

You’re such a martyr, Charlie. Only for you. Anglo Irish Bank & the Quinn Group were indigenous Irish business’, by the way. They were well looked after by the previous Government maybe you should vote FF. As for being a leftie , if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it’s a duck.

#Charlie..you’re as in : you are, as in you are in the right party.

#Charlie- think if you review your posts you’ll see the insults started in your side. Which again, is pretty typical of the left. Bye now.

So the facts mean nothing…. Opinions based duck analagys… My politics are centre right if you must know and I believe in honesty which is why I could never join an Irish political party. That and the fact that my parents were married when I was born makes me inelligable for membership.

I agree the posts do speak volumns alright….

@Vincent D,
Where did you get the right to assess anyone’s moral authority? Even Enda said him self it was immoral to tax a persons property…..care to explain the difference between Eileen’s moral authority and Enda’s???

#Ryan. Happy to. Don’t know if you noticed but between Enda Kenny criticising property taxes the Irish economy collapsed. It was on the news. Whole new ball game. Lots of things changed, including policies. My moral authority is derived from having paid the property tax, expecting other people who use the services to do likewise and having a general distaste for people criticising services they are refusing to contribute towards.

@vincent
Don’t patronise me. Along with others I live in the real world. The economy collapsed before FG got in by default. Now please address the question put to you. What is the difference from Edna kenny saying it was morally wrong to tax a person property and blindly doing the opposite ?

# Ryan. I did answer you. You just didn’t want to hear it. There are lots of things that were inconceivable before the economic meltdown that are inevitable now thanks to FF’s catastrophic management of our economy. Enda’s comments predate the meltdown. I love the fact that so many on here seem to think that this Government enjoys these politically unpopular cuts. Like they wouldn’t prefer to be handing out giveaways a la FF. economic circumstance explains the Taoiseach’s change in position. I would have thought that was obvious.

I didnt think morals were changed that easy…..

Vincent
I am well within my rights in a democracy to protest . I am equally well within my rights to be speak my mind and communicate my feelings. It is not a police state … yet !
Vincent
All you have done is insult and accuse ”my lot” as you say . Most people who are refusing to pay the hhc are not part of any political party . Like myself we are afraid, fearful, and broke. We have faced our fears and have said enough is enough. So Vincent , it is ordinary people who have read more than the FG pamphlets who are not under instruction from The Party whip. .These people are desperately trying to make ends meet pay bills feed families heat their homes,live respectably. So Vincent , you can insult and ballyrag me all you like, the truth still stands, There is a quiet revolution happening , people are not taking any more nonsense or crookedness from the government any more, people are slowly finding their feet,standing up and being counted.
Yet all you do is repeat yourself ad nauseum with the pathetic we are in power and shall be obeyed , non thinking nonsense. Have a really nice day .

I’m sorry you can’t understand my question Vincent as you have failed to answer it yet again. This side stepping and avoidance of any questioning that goes against the party leads me to believe that not only are you a supporter of FG but a party member. The red thumbs speak volumes, I suggest you go back and read through your comments and see how to improve on them next time IE answering a direct question. Until that time I will hold you in the same regard as I do for FG in general…and it’s not good. I will wait to take my vote back next GE. Please give Edna my best regards for his new job in Europe. Yours truly, disgruntled ex FG voter.

#Eileen, given FG’s ongoing support in the polls, your “Quiet Revolution” must be really, really quiet. Stop trying to dress up tax evasion as an act of patriotism. It’s quite the opposite.

#Charlie. That last comment. That’s what I mean when I say you don’t live in the real world. Of course policies & positions change in accordance with the economy. It’s the difference between the real world and your planet.

#Ryan- you’re a very sad loss to the Fine Gael party. I just hope they can survive with the 34% who continue to support them. I have answered you twice. Maybe I should use smaller words? Less syllables? Have you Skype? I could set up a video link for you and try and explain it using hand puppets?

@Vincent
You have not addressed any of the questions posed . I too am an EX-FG voter .I will never vote for them again. I hope your thirty pieces of silver is worth it Vincent ,because all you are is a traitor to Ireland and the origins of your party.

Treachery is not paying all your taxes at a time of national economic emergency. I honestly couldn’t care less what you think or who you vote for. You’re like a petulant toddler lying flat on the floor of an aisle in Dunnes, screaming and kicking out because mommy won’t buy you that dolly. “I don’t want to pay the household charge! I won’t! I won’t! I won’t!” Meanwhile, serious people will reverse us out of this debacle in a serious, sensible methodical way.

Vincent
The idea that I would have a temper tantrum in the middle of Dunnes or any where is hilarious.
However I do detect a little loss of composure on your part . .I also notice you have completely ignored my comment on the history of your party origins ,Michael Collins must be spinning in his grave. Sad . I am not a traitor .I am for the people , living and breathing and working for this country we live in . What do you do apart from dictate ?

#Eileen…actually, Michael Collins was a patriot and a realist. He fought to get foreign rule out of Ireland, when he realised the consequences of all out war with Britain would be catastrophic he compromised and advocated “stepping stones”…a long incremental approach to undoing the elements of the treaty he didn’t like. It’s fair to assume that he would now be fighting to get the Troika out of Ireland to restore our sovereignty, as Enda Kenny is, he would agree with compromise and would understand FG’s stepping stone approach to rescuing the Republic and undoing Fianna Fails bad agreement, as opposed to the catastrophe that would follow from reneging on our debts as you advocate. You should read history before citing it. I don’t think the Big Fella would be mad on tax evaders, by the way. He was Minister of Zfinance in the first Dail, after all.

Vincent @
You have lost it . Seriously ? ”as Enda Kenny is, he would agree with compromise and would understand FG’s stepping stone approach to rescuing the Republic and undoing Fianna Fails bad agreement,”
Michael Collins compromised when he realised Drvalera set him up. Just as we have been set up by fg lies and false promises . But you know what I do not care . I will not pay the hhc I will not pay the Property tax . I will maintain my composure and protest by peaceful means, You follow your leader and play your games. I have a busy day ahead .

The comment comparing The Big Fella who put his life on the line for his beliefs to Enda Kenny is the funniest thing I’ve ever seen…… Collins wouldnt have let this happen even in opposition he would have been the wimp and usesless leader in opposition kenny was… But this whole conversation is mute really… I actually believe your right Vincent. I believe kenny and co like the useless pair of lenihan and cowan before them were actually doing what they thought was best… Its just the the whole lot of them have/had no clue whatsoever what they are doing or if it’ll have any positive effect whatsoever. I firmly believe none of them are intelligent enough to either grasp the complexity of the problem or indeed have the experience and knowledge to come up with a solution. The proof of which is obvious. Both government have done exactly what they are told by people who have no stake here or know the culture of this country. Both govt have repeatedly blamed someone else for anything they do. Being a schoolteacher, civil servant or county councillor with no power in anything prepares you to run a country or deal with villainous foreign interests whose only goal is to plunder what wealth they can…. They were an are wholly incompetent. Thats not a jibe but a proven fact.

Ya from next year €500,000 per year

Yet the Irish people will be scraping money together just to get by.

A disgrace is what they are.

http://www.change.org/petitions/supporting-the-irish-nation-step-down-from-government

the “change” Micheal Martin believes is the sound of your paycheck rattling in your pocket after he and his magic “under-wearin” Brethren sell off our assets and export our jobs to the highest bidder.

…No sane-minded person would vote FIANNA FAIL.

Taliking to mysefl but RTe has SF and indos at 17% -1% . Above it says SF 19% which is correct?

Taliking to myself
but RTE has SF and indos at 17% -1% . Above it says SF 19% which is correct?

Talkin to yourself aint so bad John, but repeating yourself cos you didn’t hear the first time would worry me :)

I know. Original comment was correct. I double-checked figures above after and called it wrong the second time. Sorry for wasting everyone’s time :) Journal feel free to delete the above mess I made :)

Everything Enda Kenny says seems to be a lie. I would only think Kenny would win if he said he was going to lose because lets face it, he can’t tell the truth.

Fg fan with your refusal to listen to people who you deem non tax compliant are sounding familiar. Like another troll under a different name.
If you are have such integrity and crap on about gov transparency use your own name

Have you paid your household charge? The government are bending over backwards for the people and to get a deal on the bank debt for the people, this needs to be realized. People like the far-left drag down consumer confidence and deliberately put Ireland’s recovery at risk so they can benefit politically, this should not be rewarded or even tolerated.

Pull the other one Fine Gael Fan, that’s the best response you’ve got for Bryan – “Have you paid your household charge?” ???

Fcuk right off!!

It’s a legitimate question since I only listen to the opinions of those who are fully tax compliant and they claimed to pay a fortune in taxes. I also addressed other things in my comment, judging by your comment you are not fully tax compliant.

No it’s not, it’s an assumption of guilt because someone dis-agrees with you. You’re going on the offensive because you’ve nothing else to work with.
Classy stuff, real Fine Gael for sure. Your a step behind those Finna Fail a$$holes singing “cheerio, cheerio.. ” to those people attending the jobs expo a few years back.
It’s pathetic.

I agree with about the bending over backwards bit…. But you failed to say we the people all are bending over and taking it too…. The only difference is we didnt ask for it

Oh and if your only dealing with people who are tax compliant then most of the dail would be off your chirstmas list too especially the Fianna Gaelabour Party.

Is that right Fine Gael Fan
or should I call you Kilian Shaw?

FG also are fraudsters etc….

I’m a centre-right social moderate who is pro-European, shouldn’t be a problem as I support responsibility not the dangerous policies that the far-left support.

Hey Fine Gael fan, it was centre-right, pro-European social moderates who got us into this mess. Otherwise known as those lovely lads in Fianna Fáil. You might recognise them, they’re very similar to your crowd.

All you can defend your far-left crap with is personal insults? Does that not tell you that your ideology makes no sense? It really should.

I’d take Ireland’s reputation over Greece’s. We’re viewed as a responsible nation taking solid steps towards a recovery. The zeal with which people talk down our country on this site is truly depressing.

Coming to an election near you: FF & FG coalition.

fine gael fan, comments are pro government. there is no debating with you, cause you are party supporter. instead of selling Fine Gael, why not provide honest critique of your party and its failings? but then again the party is faultless, I mean after elections, fg have.promised and provided everything…they are like super? here is to prosperity…we will pass that corner, we will probably be dead, but here is to a steady ship.

I voted for FG in the last election. I wont be doing that again, nor will I be voting for FF. It must be a FG cumman that was polled, it could’nt be the general public at random??!!!

I think Connelly spun in his grave when it came out about the slush fund that was there for top union leaders to take trips abroad with,corruption is rife in this god forsaken country nevermind a few measly million going missing in Uganda. How many billion has gone missing in this country??

some amount of idiots on here supporting FG we deserve to be in the situation we are in if we support FG idiots

Tied in second with Shinners is hardly a ringing endorsement for the soldiers of destiny. Especially at under 20%. FG performance interesting in light of the timing of the poll, the immediate aftermath of Merkels intervention.

Paul be honest other than the name what is the difference between FG and FF? because i can’t tell the difference.

Paul Anthony Ward is a Fianna Fail buckethead.

BEWARE OF VOTING FIANNA FAIL…. THEY ARE MANIPULATIVE.

There’s no choice? Are Sinn Fein not different? I bet, ten to one, they wouldn’t be found licking German arse. Plus, their TD’s would only be taking the average industrial wage. Their way out of this mess is at least costed.

SF would be different alright. They could just tip into Northern Bank overnight and make a “withdrawal” to meet our debt commitments.

John, the taxpayer pays 90k + a year for each SF TD. The fact that their employer takes 55k from them is their own business. They are paid 3 times the average wage. BTW, what kind of an organisation keeps its members in line like that? Almost communist…

SF should be given a chance.

People should give SF a chance instead of listening to the false media. Right-wing economists demonize SF’s budget and people fall for it.

Or maybe Sinn Fein’s policies make no sense.

The government are the only people doing ok.

You mean like still continuing to break the law themselves?
You mean like giving themselves further pay-rises and expenses?
You mean like ignoring families at breaking point?
You mean like letting church orgs off with a 1.5 billion bill?
You mean like them still not seeing that Cardinal Brady is still not held to account?
You mean like some of them being possible art thieves?

#Biggins I was thinking more of the progress they have made in reducing the cost of our credit, their pursuit of a bank deal to reduce our debt, the restoration of Ireland’s international reputation and the increased likelihood of getting the troika out of Ireland and our sovereignty restored. You know- the small inconsequential things….

@ Vincent Dolan

Sovereignty restored? When and where?
You do realise that Germany/Herr Merkel is pushing for FAR more powers to run our (and others) states?
Tell me you know about this!

See: http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/13268-germany%E2%80%99s-merkel-calls-for-eu-veto-power-over-national-budgets

Frau Merkel can call for whatever she wants. She’s not President of the United States of Europe yet. And at the end 2013 FG will thank the Troika for their support and send them on their way.

Vincent! You are either very stupid, or just someone who enjoys acting the bollox!!

I don’t think they’re even of that opinion Ed, it’s more like their party before everything else, exactly like FF – “the drumcondra mafia”, the same mentality, the same goals.
They don’t have any moral compass, just their own agendas.

Krusty, that poll is in line with previous polls and FG’s election result. It seems that your capacity for denial & delusion extends beyond just your politics but also to your interpretation of cold statistics.

yep….statistics…yawn! be interesting when elections will be on, what day etc! FG party sucks, but im only a minor statistic, who wont b voting for them again…thats right, I fell for.change,5point micky mouse plan, I fell for the colours an teeny boppers selling me some mystical future. yes, my grandchildren, under.fg government might steer this bad boy country yahoo round after im dead, eh paddy????… cant wait

Go away troll, have u nothing better to be doing than creating fake Twitter accounts.

Definite troll.
I actually feel sorry for the chap. He/she must have nothing better to do.

Or he could actually be a fan….

I’m not a troll, i’m a fan of Fine Gael. I work hard and get rewarded, those are the ethos of Fine Gael hence my support for them. I don’t need to be felt sorry for, especially by a far-left bully.

With no followers or not following anyone on Twitter, only activity seems to be commenting on thejournal.ie Troll!

I far left?
You couldn’t be more wrong – but then whats new judging by your support of a two-faced org!

@ Fine Gael Fan

Hint: See my name logo! LOL
DUH!

@Sue Sue, I don’t like twitter, I don’t post on it much. That shouldn’t be a problem and I actually did tweet to vote yes in on Nov 10th. I haven’t followed anyone yet as I have being busy exercising and being a productive member of the economy, unlike you. It shouldn’t matter if I do or don’t follow anyone. You are the member of IDP, a far-left party intent on ruining this country just like Fianna Fail did.

Haha are you for real mate?

Get a grip like.

Fine Gael are ruining the economy and the people of Ireland to benefit the banks and themselves.

It’s an utter disgrace that they got elected on falsely made promises.

Where exactly is enda Kenny,s 5 point plan.

So much for not one cent going to the banks, ya not one cent no it’s more like €64 Billion and its the Irish citizens who are paying for it, while these clowns give themselves a shitload a money for untouched expenses ha. Now if people aren’t smellin a rat by now then there is definitely something wrong with this nation of people.

http://www.change.org/petitions/supporting-the-irish-nation-step-down-from-government

You’re a troll if you do not subscribe to leftist ideology that believes all Ireland’s woes will be resolved by throwing two fingers at Europe and refusing to pay the national debt. Similarly if you favour taking the hard, difficult road to a steady recovery instead of the easy road to oblivion- you are a troll.

Your response just shows how confused you are. Now I’m off to enjoy my evening. Happy trolling :)

Sue Sue, i’m not trolling and my responses show that I can debate well without resorting to personal insults like you and the rest of the far-left. Catherine, you need to learn to live in the real world.

Vincent, yep that’s pretty much what the far-left of TheJournal.ie think.

I can only assume FG fan is taking the piss, no one could really be that thick, could they?

@Brian Mc Cabe I’m not thick nor am i taking the piss, I am rewarding a sensible and transparent government.

Ok thats sorted, your taking the piss.

From Fine Gael’s perspective, everyone else is far left! :-D

Brian, being honest is taking the piss but if it is in your seriously wrong far-left dictionary then maybe I am in your head.

Paul, I don’t think everyone is of the far-left obviously Vincent Dolan is wise of their lies and hence isn’t of the far-left but judging by the amount of thumbs down I get for true comments then it’s safe to say the majority of The Journal readers are of the far-left.

@Fine Gael Fan

Please do explain to me what the real world is then?

I have had cuts to my money for the last four years and I’m not the only one.
My daughter has had cuts to her money for the last four years and she,s not the only one.
Prices for basic needs have gone up each year yet our money has gone down.
We are expected to pay for water, when we are the only country who is surrounded by the most of it.
We are being told we have to pay charges for owning a household, yet in 94/96 Enda Kenny was quoted saying “it is immoral and unjust to tax a person,s home”.
They have landed all these charges and taxes on us yet they are giving away our countries resources for half nothing, and giving themselves €500,000 a year.

Yet there are families who are starving, people who are dying etc etc.

The government were the ones that chose to fuk the Irish people up by making us pay the bondholders etc, now it was the governments choice to do this so why is it not the government who are paying for it, instead they get 1/2 a Million a year for screwing the people of Ireland over.

http://www.change.org/petitions/supporting-the-irish-nation-step-down-from-government

Please, do tell me the real world you are living in?

Ireland’s a kip. Polls like this only go to show that we have no real choice in who we vote for. All that happens every couple of years or so, is one set of useless self serving incompetent clowns swaps places with another set of the same self serving, incompetent clowns. The quicker the economy collapses, and Ireland is forced to give up sovereignty completely, the better it will become for the decent ordinary people unfortunate enough to be stuck here. We are a disgrace as a people. When you consider that thieves such as Mick Wallace are allowed to take their place in Dáil Éireann only proves my point. We are a pathetic little country that’s full of immoral gangsters that only care about themselves and their friends. Surely the end is near.

#Catherine- which do you want: hospitals, Gardai etc or to burn the bondholders? Because you can’t have both. The money we’re using to finance state services is contingent on covering the bondholders. Thanks to FF, the Troika are calling the shots. So which will it be? FG went for keeping hospitals open. Maybe you feel differently?

#Rodrigo- There are airports in Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Waterford, Tralee Shannon and Knock. There are also numerous sea ports. Feel free to leave. Ireland’s best days are ahead

@Catherine if you don’t like paying for water from government pipes,get your own water collection, filtration and distribution system. It’s not free to get water transported privately so it shouldn’t be publicly. The real world I live in is if i want something from government I should expect that I be made pay for it by government rather than just taking without giving like the far-left. The figures you say the TD’s are on are incorrect far-left pieces of propaganda. Did you miss the part where TD’s took a pay cut in 2011? Also the bondholders is a decision the bank boards made after being forced to by the Troika, i doubt the government even got consulted thanks to FF signing away our economic sovereignty.

Rodrigo if you don’t like this country Ryanair and DHL can move you and all your belongings right out, we don’t want you. This country voted in a responsible and transparent government, they got one. We are fast going down the right track no matter how painful it may be but in the long-term the options taken by the government will prove to have being the least painful ones available when looking at it from a long-term prospective..

@ Fine Gael Fan

LOL
You SERIOUSLY think the IDP is far left? LOL
I suppose when one party is on the extreme far right – all else would indeed look far left!

Sad, just sad that your actual ability to look at IDP material and policy documents is so obscured by blindness that you can’t see whats left and is actually more central!

Daftness of the highest order.

I’m not of the far-right, i am of the centre-right. Someone should teach you the difference and honesty seems to be unwelcome according to the likes of you from the far-left. Personal insults instead of an actual debate again i see, bullying seems to be a habit of the far-left.

Still this utter daftness that the IDP is far left!
I’ll leave it to others to see the org’s site and policy documents – they will then see (once again) just how wrong you are.

Nothing new there then….

I think Fine Gael Fan has been living out of the country for a long time. I’m sure breaking the law and covering it up, silently giving yourself a raise and extra holidays on top of bumping locations in your constituency up on a list without providing any evidence or criteria to say why doesn’t classify as a fair and transparent government.

Also you lose all credibility when you claim that any opposition to the party you like are extremists. I think FG are a shower of two-faced c—s but I don’t run around calling every supporter a neo-nazi. So I would appreciate not being labeled a communist because we do not agree.

@Fine Gael Fan

Ok so first of all domestic water charges were abolished in 1997. (siteresources.worldbank.org/INTWRD/903845-1112344347411/20424161

Under the EU-IMF deal, water charges must be introduced by the end of 2013.

All water supplies must be free from micro-organisms, parasites and any substances that endanger public health if found in sufficient numbers/concentrations.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/101469

The most comprehensive independent scientific examinations undertaken on water fluoridation by the US National Research Council, and most recently by the European Commissions Scientific Committee for Health and Environmental Risk (SCHER), both found that the toxicology of hexafluorosilicic acid used for water fluoridation in Ireland and its hexafluorosilicate compounds are unknown and incompletely investigated.
By continuing with its mandatory policy of water fluoridation (Ireland is one of only two countries in the world with a mandatory national legislative policy on artificially fluoridating drinking water supplies, the other being Singapore, who incidentally dose their water with approximately half the level applied here), Ireland is not only in breach of EU law, but is exposing its citizens to unnecessary risk and violating its international legal obligations, which enshrine the ‘precautionary principle’ into the governance of this State.
There is now an urgency in which the State must now act to end this harmful practice, given the published scientific findings by researchers at Harvard University in July, which found that fluoride in water causes permanent neurological damage to children, a finding that sadly supports the observations noted in my own report submitted to Government six months ago and which have been completely ignored.

And I should pay for this because?

Also Septic Tanks, all households are to get one, this is one of the leading causes of water pollutants.
- leakages can contaminate drinking water. These contaminants are of particular danger to children, elderly people, pregnant women and people whose immune systems are compromised.

Now if the government think I’m going to pay for something that could put my child’s life in dang, they,ll have a long straw out there arse waiting for it.

“Rather than just taking without giving” – interesting check of words, seen as our government from next year will be taking €497,500 per annum, whilst the average Irish citizen is left with barely €100 at the end of each month. Look at the Irish Eaxminer the figures are there, next year €112 Million will be paid to our government by the tax payer (for ????) and on top of that the Irish tax payer will pay €3.5 Billion aswell.

TD,s took a paycut, haha don’t make me laugh. Enda Kenny took a paycut from €214,000 down to €200,000 only to raise it back up to €211,00 a year, and now the hole lot of them will get nearly €500,000 a year while the Irish are left to starve, freeze etc etc just so long a our government are rolling in it.

And as for your point in the bondholders, this should be an interesting read for you

peopleforeconomicjustice.com/tag/enda-kenny/

http://www.change.org/petitions/supporting-the-irish-nation-step-down-from-government

“Sue Sue, i’m not trolling and my responses show that I can debate well without resorting to personal insults like you and the rest of the far-left. Catherine, you need to learn to live in the real world.”

Like accusing myself and others of being criminals because we disagree with you??
Good “debate” tactic.
And how is that not a personal insult?

Yawn

34% support. Going nowhere fast.

proud of the mess your anti Irish party is making choosing bondholders over Irish People.

Something to be real proud of Rory. It’s you & your party colleagues that should be jumping into a hole never to be seen again..

Fifty percent said the country was heading in the wrong direction RORY or did you miss that bit !! So you just carry on deluding yourself .

“Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

Those who polled for fine gael have received a gratuity for their time in making the right response – their household, water and septic tank charges have been waived for a period of 10 minutes.

Sure it took 12 years of a kicking for people to wake up to F.F…

It doesn’t matter who’s there now as they have no power..

People just want to do nothing and complain about everything and expect our country to magically change.

Deluded.

Glad to see you admit you are blueshirts!! You should be in Westminster with all your right wing buddies kissing the queens arse!!

All you kids who thought that there might be a future in this country can now look elsewhere. So sad that a bunch of landlords’ agents’ descendants now have the future of this country in their hands and are capitulating like the Vichy of France in WW2.
I have long resigned from the Labour Party who nowadays labour to feather their nests at the expense of the ordinary people. The alternative is even gloomier…

The polls go up – the polls jo down. It don’t mean jack shite

What bothers me about these polls is they’re still done by canvassing landline owners, and the only people I know with a landline are my Ma & Da. Which is great if you want to know the opinions of the over 70′s population.

Sean
As someone who used to work for a market research company – the surveys are done with a random sample and you have to get a certain amount of respondants from each age category/ or other criteria. Only using landlines does make it harder to fill those age quotas I would say, but if they are above board ( and the interviewers are not making up surveys because they cant find people in the right category – this does happen) then the survey should reflect the current mood.
Having said that, a survey done now means not much at all as we’re so far away from an election it doesnt mater

@Rory…of course if iit went the other way we’d be getting ‘ the only poll that matters is the next election’ shi*e. Fact remains, FG sold us out the moment they stepped over the threshold of The Trough and did more u turns than a joyrider. FF = FG = corrupt political system. Pull up the ladder jack…I’m alright.

And in the latest Red C poll 42% indicated a preference for crucifixion, 20% for disembowelment and 20% for burning at the stake. The remainder remain uncertain,..

Remind me again how the country is improving.

It’s just anyone who disagrees and has the means is getting the hell out.

Dermot you need to pay attention to whats going on, one cannot simply remind you of how its improving in a Journal comment, its a bit more complicated than that… Unless you have all night.

Significantly lower borrowing rates in the markets, rising FDI, record exports despite talk of pharma collapse, German support for a bank debt deal, international recognition abroad, a strengthening reputation, regulation that was never there before, significant PS reform ( though lots more to do), consecutive months of rising consumer sentiment. And a fall off in Sinn Fein support…

O’Rielly, i didnt think i could be said in one comment but you gave it a good lash. Fair play.

O Reilly
You forgot about 450,000 unemployed, government should be real proud of that figure.

McCabe that was FF’s doing. You have a short memory.

They have been in power for 18 months and all they have done is add to it. You can’t blame Fianna Failure for that.

So everything is brilliant, of course you conveniently omitted the lack of social improvement, y’know meaningless stuff like home help cuts, unemployment, emigration, poverty, a disastrous health service and the total degradation of peoples lives through draconian austere policies but when your head is so far stuck in the sand you cannot see these things.
Bank debt deal and having Germany supporting us? -don’t make me laugh, Germany abuse us, they mock and laugh at us becasue your leader has assured them and everyone else that this debt is ours and we were entitled to be landed with it and we’ll pay it back, it’s the classic battered wife syndrome with FG as the wife, the more they kick us the more FG crawl back asking for forgiveness, get some half hearted assurances before they’re kicked again…repeat.
So contrary to your blinkered assertion that things have improved things are still the same as before, still playing the gullible fools in Europe, still expecting the people to carry the can for banking and political failure and still the same tired old secret, self enriching government we have always had.
Voting to retain the ill deserved expenses yet voting for cuts to home help? – Fair play.

Not true. Westminster imposed those cuts upon the six counties. SINN FEIN would burn the Bondholders. FIANNA FAIL and FINE GAEL only have leprechaun leaders who are too nice to face arrogant Europeans.

Vincent. Your a plonker

It’s “you’re”, Joe. Not your. As in you are a plonker. See? Here to help you where I can.

I have to say Catherine that that petition is a joke. We have elections every 5 years and people can vote then to change government. Do you really believe that enough people will sign it or that the Gov will take a blind bit of notice of it. Do something more constructive that silly online petitions if you really want change.

Pure muck !