TheJournal.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more »
Dublin: 8 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

‘Robust’ public discourse on Ireland’s education system necessary

The TUI has said that lecturers are finding themselves stretched; and that its members need to be involved in any process of structural change.

Trinity College, Dublin
Trinity College, Dublin
Image: Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland

THERE NEEDS TO be a ‘robust public discourse’ on Ireland’s education system, the Teachers’ Union of Ireland has said.

TUI General Secretary John MacGabhann spoke at a TUI seminar on Higher Education issues in Dublin yesterday, where on behalf of the the union he urged that caution should be exercised in making any changes to third level education.

The union – which represents 3,500 lecturers in the sector - has also warned that technological university status may not be appropriate for all Institutes of Technology.

University Lecturers

New research has shown that Irish university lecturers work slightly longer hours compared to their European counterparts. Irish lecturers work on average 50 hours a week, compared to 48.

The TUI said that:

Institute lecturers teach 18 to 20 hours per week where the international norm is 10 to 12. For each hour of teaching, a multiple is also spent in evaluation and preparation.

It added that included in a lengthy list of other academic responsibilities are research, devising and updating syllabi on an on-going basis, course development and planning and extensive assessment.

The TUI said that student numbers have increased by 20 per cent over a four year period when lecturer numbers were stripped back by 8 per cent.

Institute lecturers have never found themselves more stretched to meet the demands of a vastly increasing and diverse student cohort with significantly reduced resources. Robust public discourse on our education system is acceptable and indeed necessary. The spreading of blatant falsehoods about those working within it are not.

Restructuring

MacGabhann also spoke about the restructuring of Irish higher education institutions is required, such as the suggestion of clustering and amalgamations in the Institute of Technology sector.

It may well be the case that technological university status would be appropriate for some of the institutes but it is by no means clear that it would be appropriate for all.

He added: “It is not good enough to make a second rate university of a first rate institute. Clearly, this would not serve the students, the region, the economy or our society.”

TUI advises that institutes should proceed with caution, making sure that they retain what is best in them, that they do not substitute a nominal status for genuine educational stature.

The union insists on the “full and robust involvement” of its members in any process of structural change.

Higher Education Authority

The general secretary also said that the HEA “clearly is charged with making decisions that have profound industrial relations implications”.

However, when approached, the HEA will primly state that it does not have an industrial relations function.

MacGabhann concluded that it is necessary for the Minister for Education to indicate where the TUI can engage with all the relevant agencies in regard to issues arising from the strategy being advanced by the HEA.

Read: Irish university lecturers ‘work longer hours’ than European counterparts>

Read next:

Comments (15 Comments)

  • There seems to be some confusion of what the function of a university is. The primary function of a university is not to provide primary degrees to undergraduates. A university is not a school. The primary function of a university is to develop and publish research. It is on research that a university is ranked.

    This is not to undermine the importance of undergraduates, but the distinction needs to be made clear. Irish universities must decide, on a university-by-university basis, whether their priority is teaching undergraduates or promoting and enabling research. They cannot focus on both equally, this one-size-fits-all model is dragging the stands of both down.

    Compare the Irish university system to the U.S. system, where they make a very clear distinction between “college” and “grad school”, or the misconceptions people have about Oxford or Cambridge. A post-graduate degree from these universities is a very valuable thing to have. A primary degree from these universities may sound nice, but, at the academic level, is not particularly more valuable from any reasonably rated university.

    Reply
  • Aoife – the pic is of St. Patrick’s College, not National University

    Reply
  • Codex 29/05/12 #

    @ Páid Ó Donnchú

    Disregarding your ‘ah sher you could just give the same lecture forever’ palaver which is more of a reflection of your attitude towards professionalism than most (but not all) university lecturers in my experience, how is it that you think ‘evaluating’ students can be ‘delivered’ the same each year given there by definition has to be a different test from previous years and each paper marked will be totally different from the last?

    Reply
  • Why does the demands of the vested interests dominate the story? Where are the voices of the people who use the system i.e. the students?

    As for “For each hour of teaching, a multiple is also spent in evaluation and preparation.” claimed by the TUI, what is that multiple? For some, I reckon it’s about 0.05.

    Try catching one on a Friday afternoon.

    Reply
    • How would students, who by definition are learning about their subjects – the vast majority only at the beginning of that process – be able to tell objectively what in the university system would serve them best in the long term?

      Speaking as someone who’s been on both sides of that divide and spent a long time in industry as well, I don’t believe undergraduate students in general have as firm a grasp on their actual needs and requirements as they might believe. I know I certainly didn’t, and I wasn’t exactly ignoring the topic at the time.

      As to the multiple, for me it was between two and three, depending on the specific lecture. In a few cases it rose to five or six. And that’s just lectures; it doesn’t include practical lab work, assignments or exams.

      Reply
    • I challenge you to prepare a 50 minute lecture on any topic of your choice then come back and tell us how long it took you..a lot more than 25 minutes no doubt.

      Reply
    • And to add to that challange, we’ll evaluate how well you did from the feedback of a group of about 200 18-year-olds who are stuck in an underventilated lecture room designed for a much smaller group of students, less than 100 yards from the nearest open pub on a warm sunny friday afternoon.

      Reply
    • Oh, and lets up the ante a bit more and say that they’re in training for their professional careers in (say) IT, where you must teach them the fundamentals of the profession in a way that means their degree won’t be obsolete inside of four years after graduation, while the companies in that field all publicly demand that the students be taught whatever specific toolset those individual companies are using (and they’re all different, and none of them are really suited to teaching basic principles well).

      In other words, you can either teach the basics well and be slated for being out of touch with industry; or you can teach the latest fad and be slated for producing students nobody in the IT industry can hire (does that ring any bells for anyone?).

      Reply
    • Imagine having some time off on a Friday to enjoy life? Imagine actually not working every day for 60 years and then just dying from boredom? Imagine being a secondary teacher and having the whole summer off and how horrible that is for everyone else. Or imagine a society where everyone had those benefits, wouldn’t that be nice….

      Reply
    • @martin. Why didn’t you become a teacher? It sounds like heaven.

      Reply
    • Well it’s not even true in a lot of cases. Most newly qualified teachers earn so little that they need to supplement their income by working during the summer. And I work in the public sector. I’m one of those people. Sponging off the state and laughing at private sector workers. Lazy too. And fat. And lazy.

      Reply
  • Nichola,

    First of all I hope you don’t teach maths, as .05 of 50 is 2.5 not 25.

    And secondly, of course it would take me longer than 25 minutes to prepare a 50 minute lecture.

    For the first time I delivered it……

    Reply
    • You do realise that not every lecture can be repeated the following year, right?
      Or that the majority of those in some fields (like IT) get changed every single year because the field moves so fast?
      Or that at MSc level, virtually all lectures fall into the one-use-only category?

      Or that virtually nobody giving lectures in university in Ireland today is *only* hired to lecture? That in fact almost all of them are hired for research, and the lecturing is something they are expected to do on top of that job, and that if the research slips, they don’t get rehired?

      I think maybe you don’t really understand the job you’re slating, at all.

      Reply

Add New Comment