Kenny and Fine Gael are and always have been anti-abortion, when people voted for them in their droves they endorsed Fine Gael’s views.

Actually, part of their manifesto was to form the Expert Group and legislate for X accordingly. So describing their failure to act as being in line with their stated views is stretching the truth a bit.

Cian, what you suggest is utter rubbish, there is no collective opinion on the right to life, different party members have different and opposing opinions, and Kenny’s opinion is as relevant and irrelevant as mine or yours. You should try to honest in what you say, generalised bile just won’t cut it.

Simon,

He is there as a mandate of the people’s wishes, 84% of whom said they are Catholic last year and thus support the Catholic Church’s values, one major one being anti-abortion.

He has in that sense done a wonderful job of representing the people’s wishes.

Thank you, Catholic Ireland, for killing this woman who had nothing to do with your church. After having done so, so much damage to the country already through oppression and abuse, thank you so much for continuing your reign of terror in 2012 and killing people who have nothing to do with you. Thank you to the 84% of the country who support this organisation, I hope you can sleep well at night knowing that you’re absolutely complicit in this woman’s death.

You want change? You want progression? Then stop f**king support a corrupt and evil empire that has this country by the throat and start using your head for a change.

Fair play, Vincent! It is time for Ireland to come out of the dark ages. I’m sick of this ongoing debate and nobody doing anything about it!

I know their silence is deafening

Could not agree with you more. If there is no legislation fir the x case within the next month then i feel the government should step aside – they are not the first government to dodge this issue by any means but when we are being asked to endure increasing austerity measures the least they can do is their job.

Is there a website where I can look up election promises of every party and their candidates.

I think it would be handy to have such a site.

Politicians have it as ‘tradition’ to promise anything they can think of, without any intention of actually keeping said promises.

I’m sick of it…….

Ruairi try here http://www.reformcard.com/

Great website..exactly what I wanted

Robbie,

84% of this country support an organisation that has been shown to have sexually and physically abused children and moved people around to cover it up. The same organisation that is responsible for atrocities throughout history and indeed, to this very day with the horrors they’re carrying out in Africa through their campaigns of misinformation and scaremongering.

We are archaic and behind the times, 84% of the country alone have proven this. They support their Church who itself is anti-gay rights, anti-abortion and most of all, anti-progress.

When that 84% start to change their outlook on life, maybe then we can move into the future. Until then, however, we’ll remain here in the past as a bunch of ignorant Paddies supporting probably the most evil and corrupt organisation in history.

84% of this country stated they share Enda’s views in last year’s census.

Stop blaming the Government and point the finger at the Church and those that are giving it its power – the 84% of this country that declared their support for it last year.

You’re receiving quite a few green thumbs there, Brian, from people who undoubtedly gave that religion its power and mandate last year in stating they support it in the census.

It’s times like these that we’re exposed to the true idiocy and level of hypocrisy in this “modern” Irish society.

Yes John, a very good point; I suppose it takes something like this to happen in order for people to stop and really think about their actions, most people think that being a moderate religious supporter is no harm, thinking that it’s only fundementalists that are a problem, but it’s the moderate supporters that give the fundementalists their platform, which is exactly what has happened here, with 84.2% of people living in Ireland defining themselves as Roman Catholic in the 2011 census.

BTW – I meant to say 2012 not 2013, but unless the Irish government cut all ties with the Catholic Church ASAP, we’ll be seeing the same kind of tragedies in the future.

Basically the rights of a woman is taking away when she becomes an incubator

Being a nurse of anaesthesiology in a maternity hospital I can tell you your opinion is misinformed. When this lady turned up in hospital she was experiencing back pain, leaking of amniotic fluid and bleeding. These are signs that a miscarriage is about to take or is taking or has taken place. From start to end of miscarriage varies greatly from case to case. When this lady presented she was having a standard miscarriage, the signs were that she would terminate the pregnancy naturally, which is what is done normally. This, along with the presence of foetal heartbeat means you cannot artificially terminate pregnancy in Ireland. By the time artificial termination would have been legal, this lady was already severely ill, and as was demonstrated, even with the artificial termination of pregnancy, she still passed away.
We, as clinicians, doctors, midwives, medics need laws, not guidelines.

Jakki,

84% of this country condemned this woman to death in supporting the Catholic Church in the 2011 census and that 84% are all complicit in this woman’s death. The Church is anti-abortion, 84% of this country stated they were part of and supported that Church and their views, the overwhelming majority, have been represented here.

Sorry to be so blunt, Enda has his part to play as a Catholic but no more so than any other fool who backed that evil organisation last year.

David,

Sorry but the Government have represented Ireland perfectly here. 84% of this country stated that they’re Catholic in 2011 and thus hold Catholic values, one of which is being against abortion. The Government then have to represent these people, regardless of their own beliefs. When other religions, which are also anti-abortion, are taken into account, representing the pro-choice people (the non-religious) would be absurd as it would be promoting the views of what has been declared to be a tiny minority.

You can’t keep blaming everyone else, David. Our Government have represented the views of the majority here, which is a sorry state of affairs but when you’ve 84% of the country ready to go out and support an organisation that has been seen to be sexually and physically abusing children and covering it up, what more can you expect?

Thank you, Catholic Ireland, for destroying this woman’s life. YOU are to blame and only YOU can make the changes necessary. Disagree with your Church’s views on life? Then you’re not part of it, no matter what was said when you were 6 months old. Stop supporting them in the figures, stop supporting them financially and then let our Government stop supporting their outlook.

Conor
There are many WTO would say that our legislation on abortion is far ahead of that in the UK. However I believe we are all missing the point in this discussion. In this case there was a clear and manifest risk to the life of a mother with a pregnancy that had already terminated itself.
How many time have we heard Doctors in the Pro Life Movement say there were no ethical or moral or legal issues where the life of the mother was at risk in allowing them to provide the necessary interventions.

Conor,

Why would we legislate for abortion, when 84% of the country have stated in 2011 that they’re against it? If you’re a Catholic, you hold Catholic views and once of which is being against abortion. 84% said they’re against abortion so why would they legislate for the demands of what has been declared to be a tiny minority?

Sorry, can you point to something where 84% of people said they were opposed to legislating for abortion for maternal health reasons? That’s a big leap from identifying as Catholic on the census to saying they agree with this position.

Nick,

Pope John Paul II said “I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium. No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church”

The Church very firmly states that abortion is not acceptable under any circumstances. 84% of the country stated their support for this organisation and its beliefs.

If they don’t support the beliefs, they’re not entitled to call themselves Catholics (as Catholics should know), so their declaration of support means that they themselves do support the beliefs.

I know, I know, a lot of Catholics are reading this and getting all upset but this is how things are. If 84% of the country state they support a religious organisation, then the Government have to represent the values of that 84%, which they’ve stated are aligned with their church.

You can’t be Catholic and be pro-gay rights or pro-choice, go read the http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM for clarification.

John D, Are the church against gay marriage? It’s a fact that all 84% who identify as catholic in the census are not against that. Maybe they need to drop their religion or be excommunicated? agree?

Marist,

“His” church is against abortion? No, sorry, Ireland’s church is against abortion. 84% of this country stated that they are Catholics as of 2011 and thus the Catholic church is Ireland’s church.

Stop pointing the finger at the politicians, they are there to represent the people in this country and when the overwhelming majority say they support an institution that is anti-abortion, the Catholic Church, then that is who they will be trying to represent.

Catholics have a massive amount of responsibility in this woman’s death, from those going to mass on the weekend to the shams who only go on Christmas yet declare themselves Catholic.

Cheers for regurgitating someone else’s views.

Have to agree with Mr Hitchens, is there any religion in the world that does not subject and degrade women.
Time to ratify that law Enda to stop sense less deaths.

Made a hames of that, apologies for the double post.

Bacik is not an elected representative. She is a member of the Seanad, appointed by internal election among UCD graduates. What actions do expect of Senators? She has published many private members bills throughout her career ranging in topics from female genital mutilation to the rights of humanists in Ireland to solemnize marriages

Regardless of her party, she is among the most progressive politicians in this country, and is fighting on many fronts for equality in Ireland.

Ivana also marched and protested along with the rest of us demanding legislation for the X case, and has published material about society and abortion, and has been taken to court by pro-life groups for helping people access information about abortion.

John, are you for really with all your comments about the Pedo Church and JP2??? JP2 should rot for
advising African people against using condoms. He indirectly killed thousands of men and women who got the hiv virus by following his sick advice. Abortion due to medical reasons should be legal as it is a basic human right. The Catholic Church is the greatest sect of all our times and i hope that soon enough some progressive political party will look at de-legalising this disgusting institution

That actually doesn’t make him a hypocrite at all, Barry. Might want to hit the dictionary before using words whose meaning is a little confused to you.

The above post is one I have put in today’s ( thuesdays article) re the poll to legislate for x case ruling. John Donovan is a troll or deluded or both.

If the details of the case are as clear as are being portrayed then the hospital would have done whatever was required to save the mothers life (i.e. including aborting). I suspect that this case is a lot less clear

It shouldn’t be called X-legislation. It should be called Savita’s Law when they do finally legislate for it. Shame on 7 successive governments for allowing this to happen

it’s quite simple really, if the X case was legislated, the mothers lie would have been deemed ‘at risk’ and so she would have been allowed an abortion, thus saving her life, instead of that, a life was lost due to archaic laws and more will be continually lost unless this government finally legislates granting Irish women what should be their basic human right.

*life

Patrick, unfortunately, no. While the constitution provides for the right to terminate a pregnancy if it poses a risk to the life of the mother, there is no legislation to back this up – meaning that the legality for the constitutional right is a ‘grey area’. We know that it’s allowed but with no provision for procedure or circumstance, the possibility of prosecution exists without the certainly of legislation.

But under the existing regime a woman gets whatever medical treament is necessary to save her life (including abortion) so any X-legislation is redundant in this case. All we know is that a woman died after being refused an abortion we don’t know if the refusal was the cause. What we do know is that the lack of X-legislation is not the cause.
What we are getting here is the usual opportunism and misinformation of the abortion lobby. No doubt this case will be milked for years

Jack there does not need to be legislation to carry out lifesaving measures you are either wrong or misinforming. If the case is was as clearcut as we are being told then the hospital could have aborted under the existing framework. Hence I suspect that the case was not that clearcut.
I oppose x-legislation on the basis that it will be the foot in the door for the abortion industry.

If this lady had presented at a hospital in the UK she would have been offered a termination immediately. Had she refused, as is her right, a termination would have been recommended a period of time later, had she refused that, one would have been carried out as an emergency procedure. In Ireland we cannot act until it becomes an emergency, by which time, in the case of miscarriage the mother is already in septic shock and saving her life becomes a race (normally lost) against sepsis and multiple organ failure. The “legislation” in existence protects nobody, not the mother, the baby, or the medical or nursing staff. It serves to protect the interests of certain groups.

No patrick, there is no existing framework. The doctor would have been breaking the law by performing an abortion. Granted he may have been able to defend the charge in the Supreme court after many years by relying on the constitution as a defence but it is unfair to place that obligation on one man and force him to risk his freedom and his career because two decades of governments haven’e bothered to abide by the X case.

They want lives saved, your cynical use of this tragedy for your deranged pro-life campaigning is what is sickening.

Say that after you’ve seen the physical and emotional suffering that the family here are going through and you’ll soon change your mind. The last thing any of us in the medical profession wants is for patients to die. The most frustrating thing about this case is that had full and proper legislation been in place this lady would most likely have gone on to live a full and healthy life. Unfortunately it’s a case of save all, or save nothing at the moment here in Ireland.

No, people want a country where a mother won’t be let die because of backwards pro-life beliefs that mean the mother has no rights even when her life is at risk.

That’s incredibly insulting to her husband, who wanted to share this story so no other woman would die.

What, like how they perform laparotomies to deal with ectopic pregnancies? Sod the woman’s body, cut her open rather than give her an abortion.. If she loses organs so be it eh?