I’ve never been to India. I live in Ireland however and I fully understand his concerns with regard to cover ups..

This most certainly should be fully independent.

Savita’s husband lives in Galway, not India. I’d say his scepticism is well founded. Who on earth could have a problem with an independent inquiry? Over to you, Enda…

Ever have a public servant attempt to solicit a bribe from you in Galway?

I get it. You feel ‘got at’, that this grieving man who lives in Galway is having a go at ‘your country’ so you’re having a pop back at his country of origin. It’s a quite irrelevant point; this issue has everything to do with Ireland and nothing whatever to do with India.

No, you don’t get it. I’m not Irish or Indian. But I do live in Ireland and somtimes travel to India on business. I was merely pointing out an important cultural factor. If you watch any of the Indian tabloid media coverage you’ll notice the automatic assumption of high level corruption and racism frequently touted.

In any case, I fully agree there should be an independent inquiry as I have stated elsewhere.

Can’t agree with you. The panel was named and he objected to three people. To comply with his request the three were removed. Now he makes a further objection which ought to have been his response when the panel was named.

Rory he objected to the HSE carrying out an internal inquiry and requested a public inquiry from the beginning.

Sadly he is elected – he was elected to the senate by the NUI panel. Every graduate of an NUI college has a vote on this, the vast majority never register for their vote or use it. That’s what allowed an extreme group of hard right anti-choice activists to organise people to register and vote and elect this man.

If you are an NUI graduate are you happy that Ronan Mullen represents you? If you did not register and vote in the least senate election, in an indirect way you are responsible for this man having a public profile.

If you want to make sure this does not happen again, register to vote NOW. http://www.nui.ie/elections/seanad-register.asp

Dead right, Katie. He would never be popularly elected. The advertisement for Seanad abolition imaginable.

Dead right, Katie. He would never be popularly elected. The best advertisement for Seanad abolition imaginable.

Dave
Could you tell us how the Irish Media are muzzled by the Government. This is a very strong assertion by you and I’m wondering what your evidence is?

It certainly is a very strong accusation but it’s also very true. Politicians have an enormous influence on the media, particularly when we have a near monopoly with the print press in this country. But that’s beside the point, I once again congratulate and support Praveen Halappanavar who has had the terrible experience of losing his wife and unborn child. He has also had the unfortunate experience to encounter an administration who are more concerned about their image and reputation than the welfare and safety of their citizens.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/media/196008-shatter-wants-political-censorship-media-returned-ireland.html

Garry,

3 letters…. R.T.E

I see that Enda Kenny is now appealing from the Dail for Praveen Halappanavar to meet the chairman of the enquiry team. Can’t they leave this man alone and take NO for an answer? He has already called for a totally, impartial public enquiry and who can blame him. So what is Kenny and his boys trying to hide?

Muzzled journalists? I’m 40 years in the business. And I have never seeng greater s***e written than that.

Have just watched Praveen Halappanavar’s interview on Primetime and he comes across as a totally dignified, intelligent but determined individual. He still defies the “demands” of our politicians to back down and accept their half baked inept attempts at getting to the bottom of this horrific situation. Irish people have been bombarded with revelation after revelation about corruption and scandal and have actually become immune to doing anything about it. Be it Seanie fitz, politicians and bankers salaries and pensions etc, these stories become 2 day wonders and just flitter away. Praveen Halappanavar is not like this and will fight to the bitter end to get the truth revealed, despite James O’Reillys decision this evening to railroad through an enquiry which is going to be legally challenged.

Despite Enda appearing on the front page of Time Magazine and picking up “European of the Year Award” and doing his utmost to restore our international reputation, have a look at this and see what the international community really think of Ireland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKifAdn8HCQ

Maybe pregnant women from outside Ireland who are coming home for “The Gathering” should have to sign a waiver that they accept they may die if they encounter complications during their pregnancy whilst in this country

Gov. is concerned about the expense of it and that it might set a precedent where public inquiries are called for every time someone dies in hospital.

A public inquiry would take years and cost millions – if previous public inquiries are anything to go by. I don’t see the need for it. Surely all the salient facts are known at this stage? The relevant staff at Galway will already have been interviewed by the hospital authorities and statements taken. It should be possible to wrap an inquiry up in a couple of weeks at the very most.

Why would a public enquiry with similar terms of reference take significantly longer than a private one?

The only reason I can think of is that making it public it would compel it to be more thoroughly conducted and to hear more extensive evidence. In other words that by being public it would be more comprehensive and more complete.

If this is the case then it is an argument for having it public, not against. It’s not about speed, it’s about getting it right.

Fair question Katie, but I don’t know the answer. I’m just going by what media commentators are saying. Nobody seems to be opposing the assertion that a Public enquiry would be hugely expensive and take a long time on either side of the debate.

Does it really need to be a public inquiry to be an independent though?

If it was your wife and child that you had just lost.Would you still be happy with an internal inquiry? I’d be enamoured to hear your honest answer

Do you want this to happen again?

James was listening to the Last Word last night a lecturer from one of the Irish universities (forgot which one) seemed to be saying that the chair may not be able to access the medical notes because they are not a member of either the hospital involved or the HSE and for reasons of confidentially the notes may not be released?

If that’s the case then it’s upto the HSE to get the relevant permission to enable an investigation to take place. I still think Mr Praveen could do with better legal advice. It’s in the interest of nurses and doctors, mothers and fathers that the truth is not withheld.

It would be an investigation/tribunal into one incident which happened over three days, unlike the previous tribunals which were set up to look into practices in politics, planning, etc. Those tribunals were looking at events spanning decades and involving many people. Why should an independent enquiry into Savota H’s death need to take so long?
It’s what Praveen H wants and what he deserves. The govt and HSE have made a complete hash of this.Through stupidity or design, I wonder?

From what I read in one of the Sunday papers the Gardai were called to the hospital after the death of Savita. No further details were mentioned.

The Gardai are always involved when there is an inquest. There is always an inquest into a sudden death. So this is normal procedure and there is nothing unusual about it at all.

I’ve heard that’s just standard practice, and doesn’t mean anything at this stage.

Thanks for that. I wondered why that was. I can’t help feeling that the fact that they watched this woman in agony and distress and watched her baby slowly die over three days is criminal.

We don’t tend to agree on much Diarmaid but on this point I’m in agreement with you 100%.

The man has lost his wife in a truly awful situation that in all likely hood could have been avoided or at the very least her chances of living could have been improved.

Can you honestly blame him for thinking that they’ll try cover up the true facts of what happened, he’s lost everything and has nothing more to loose so he just wants to ensure the truth surrounding his wifes death is found out.

Ya but to refuse to even speak to the head of it? Where is that going to get anyone?

Probably it’s his only avenue to highlight that it’s not on for an institution to investigate itself. He did give his statement to the gardai but he is not obliged to talk to HSE who are behind his wife (non)treatment.

It’s interesting to see how one man with nothing to lose is able to expose the mechanisms we all came to take for granted.

Yes he can. He has the support of the public and we’re the boss of the government.

That’s akin to allowing the family of a victim of crime dictate the terms of somebody’s trial.

No it’s not because he is looking for a public inquiry not a criminal trial and remember it was the HSE who claimed they would be in contact with the family to establish the remit of the inquiry.

Belly Up, a HSE enquiry is the same as the criminal’s family deciding his fate.

@Jimboandbear how do you know the majority of the people agree with him, I do not. Let the inquiry proceed under the present chairman.

Maura, you are not the majority of people. I am quite confident that any right thinking person was shocked when they heard the plans for the enquiry into the HSE by the HSE.

Are you saying that an organisation that presided over his wife’s death should investigate itself? If so you have a very poor concept of an impartial enquiry.

An inquiry BY the same people who were responsible for his wife’s death? Are you serious?

Jack,

Why do you say that?

Jack Ryan
It’s all about cover up.
If I was the husband I would not trust any Irish organisation to truthfully and professionally investigate this blunder.
I have been there. I know how governing bodies operate.
Nepotism is ultimately the problem in these circles.

I woukdn speak to them either when it was a internal enquiry but now that its been moved to a independent enquiry he should speek to them directly if not I would be under the impression he has a alternative motive ie..$$$$

Strange to think that money is a motive- why do people say that?

because he will sue the Irish state shortly… he’d be better off not involved in the investigation at all if he believes they will come up with a verdict of accidental death…

I never thought of it like that- Could this be true?

there is legislation there to protect the life of the mother and terminate the pregnancy if the mother’s life is deemed to be in danger. In this case her life wasn’t deemed to be in danger so someone got it wrong… next step is to find out why and insure it doesn’t happen again then financial compensation for the family I guess…

Vinnie, the inquiry is not independent – it is still run by HSE. It’s just that there are now no members from GUH as they have been removed and will most likely be called in as witnesses.

He may very well sue and he probably should, seeing how the court will have to establish culpability which is another opportunity to investigate the matter apart from HSE’s own inquiry.

The head of the investigation is not from the HSE though, so how can it be called an internal enquiry? As for it being public, the only real difference is whether the evidence is heard in camera or not.

His actions are beginning to sound a bit suspect as at first it was the composition of the investigating committee, now it is the nature of the committee

If the inquiry is run by HSE then the report will contain what HSE accepts it contains, no matter who chairs it. You can trust their integrity to release an honest report or not; if my spouse died in their care the way Savita died I know what I would have thought about their integrity.

my bad I misunderstood..he does right not talking so

Money won’t bring his wife back. He is doing the same things I would in his situation.

So @Jack, the way you see it is that Praveen lost a very much wanted child and then, in tragic circumstances which he believes (whether you agree with him or not) were preventable, loses his wife all in the space of a few days and that a very short time later he is thinking something along the lines of “y’know there could be a nice few bob in this for me”?

What sort of a warped mind comes up with that?

Fartbox there is no legislation to protest the life of the mother, which the government have been aasked repeatedly to introduce. There are medical guidelines which are not laws and do not protect doctors which is why doctor are erring on the side that will protect them from being prosecuted for manslaughter in the event that they are challenged on a termination.

@lamb yes there is..a medical profession can preform a abortion where a imminent danger to the mothers life as in this case.

Who can blame this poor man? The people at the top in this country are almost never held accountable for their actions. It’s got to the stage that one doesn’t know who to trust. It’s an accepted part of life in Ireland that if you’re connected to the right people, then normal laws don’t apply to you. The RTE enquiry proved that.

Well then do us all a favour and sod off!! What a pleb comment

Seems I wouldn’t be doing us “all” a favor John.

Pleb ?? Gawd, the irony !

Sod off ? LOL

Do you not believe in compensation for wilful neglect? If someone crashed into your car, would you demand compensation? Your’re not telling the truth are you about your opinions?

@Patrick The family have not objected to the man appointed to lead the enquiry, only to the nature of the enquiry.

The opinion of the person leading the enquiry is not relevant, partly because if you choose a person of sufficient integrity they will hear the evidence on its merits, leaving their personal opinions outside the door, but mainly because the enquiry is NOT about aborition – it is about establishing the facts in this case and determining if everything that could have been done to save Savita’s life was done.

Leaving that aside, the reality is that if you seek out a person of sufficient experience, knowledge, stature and eminence in the obstetrics world internationally you are simply not going to find anyone who has never taken any position on abortion, and you’ll search very long and very hard to find a hard anti-choice obstetrician with the status within the profession that Prof Arulkumaran. In fact you’ll search forever and in vain.

Why? Because they know only too well of the impossibility of reconciling intransigent views with the real-life difficulties and uncertainties of treating sick people.

And referring to International Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics (of which Prof Arulkumaran is president elect – elected by his peers all over the world) as a ‘pro-abort’ organisation – as I’ve seen some people do in the last couple of days, is both insulting and paranoid.

I’m sick of the way this issue has been taken over by ppl on either side-

now there is an element of -only in it for the money-

How sad-

clear voices- clear minds- clear decisions!

action and reflection needed now!

Patrick, if you want to be taken seriously, try to avoid ridiculous overblown terms like ‘pro abortion cabal’.

can we remove Ronan Mullen from his position because he creates bias anytime he talks about anything related to this case.

Ronan Mullen is an idiot to say those things.
Would he be claiming Sir Sabaratnum Arulkumaran was biased if he was pro life?
No. He. Would. Not.
What you are saying Ronan feckin Mullen is you dont agree with his views, and thats all.
Get your useless nose out of it Mullen

In fairness to Mullen while I’d not agree with his views he is entitled to express them.