To answer point 4. When you register something you essentially give ownership of it away. By registering with your local council you are basically entering into a contract with them. No registration- No Contract – No Pay…

@Manfred, no point asking the government those questions. They have already proven themselves to be liars.

@ Dave i heard that too but the Government wil only be giving it all to the UN-NAMED BONDHOLDERS

We don’t even have to leave the house Dave. We can do it while watching the X Factor or Dancing on Ice should I say. X factor over now. :(

That’s the beauty of it! Not a stone or missile needs to be thrown! But the effect will be enormous!

A few years ago I was working out in Greece for a British company. The Government there decided to go into every house and see who had receipts for any electrical item, theyhad a notion that they had been purchasing items from abroad and losing revenue on them.
Of course they didnt let anyone know they had passed this law, they simply raided every home and arrested anyone who hadnt a receipt, people had no receipts unless they had literally just bought the things.
That night the jails were over flowing, people crammed in and the Police were going insane because they just couldnt cope and had people lined up outside and by the morning they had to let them all go.
I know this has nothing to do with the Property tax, however, it does highlight the fact that if everyone, or even a large proportion of people stand against them and say NO, they will have the same issue as the Greeks that hilarious night…
Never seen its like before or since!

I am totally against the home tax after all we paid tax on Our Homes when we bought them along with interest along with everything we bought to turn it into our home rather than just a house we pay tax on our income. We have NO. Say as to where it goes and we have no say as to how much is paid to the top politicians pay themselves and the hike they give their buddies or the people they hire or the positions they create like the one minister for houses in the name if God maybe we should have a minister for dogs or cats next or even a minister for cars
This home tax is not right it is unjust and will destroy families when it is not just 100euro how will we afford the hike to 1000euro or more in a couple of years

I totally agree about people sitting on their asses and moan
There should be protests in every town,village and city in Ireland
The elderly showed us younger people up big time 3 years ago when they tried to stop the medical card on them. They also showed us up when they tried to close a nursing home a few weeks ago in Abbeyleix now it is time for everyone to pull together and show this Government we mean business and we can give no more we need to show them that we want our country back, we need to show them that we need spending power to create Jobs. We need to let them know we need our children’s educated we also need to tell them that we need our health because at the moment the minister for health and the HSE should all be sacked for the total mess they are making of our health system

Protest?…The Budget and all its bad news is held in December, one of the coldest Months’ of the year for a good reason…people don’t like to protest in cold miserable weather! The Greeks showed us how to protest…when the sun was shining!

Dessie Ellis is on a pay and expenses package worth well over €100,000 and he isn’t liable to pay the charge because he lives in a council house? He’s rich. Why should he or any other low rent high income tenants be exempt?

Dessie may be on that on paper but in reality he gets the average industrial wage, the rest goes to sf, likewise with joe higgins, claire daly and the socialist party.

Dessie might be on that on paper but in reality he takes the average industrial wage and the rest goes to SF, as do the socialist s claire daly and joe higgins.

@ John the Greeks get the Sun we do not…… and yes get out and PROTEST, We are too accepting in this country. What ever happened to us

That’s right, the best way out of €16bn budget deficit is by not paying taxes and serfdom to the IMF/EU/ECB. These lot clearly have the interest of the republic at heart.

Part of the bailout already agreeed. No one else will lend us the dough.

It a christmas bonus for the Dail elite.

Who should the next government be then?

How about people vote on an more open minded basis and not elect the usual old corporately financed parties that put the interests of their donors and party drones above that of the public.
How about a new emergency government formed of all political parties and independents that would deal with the economic crisis in a determined and representative manner instead of the usual boring party political back-biting and trough swilling that is getting nowhere fast.

If there were no party whips TDs could vote with their consciences. Make decisions like in a real republic. Then we could vote on whomever’s ideals appealed to us and they could be judged for their integrity when going for reelection. Not just on party loyalties. Now there’s a thought.

On the button Reada!
Another old ruse to keep the renegades in step in case they stride ahead of the agenda set by the policies of bought party obligations to vested interests.

A real republic! Now that IS a thought.
You ARE an idealist Reada!

John and Reada for TD’s..you have my vote :)

I’ve been saying this for ages. Every opportunity I get. Always been against corporal punishment. :D

This comment was for posts further up the page !!!!

I have beeen against it too . Give people back their initiative and trust them , it is amazing what can be achieved… Although it suits the ”powers that be” to treat us all like children with out an opinion and ”they” get all the power! Remember information is power , when the government with hold information they with hold power from us and we become nothing

And honest real work and also true honest debates over decisions made for the good of IRELAND and her people

Aren’t rural properties in most areas cheaper to buy than similar properties in urban. If rural dwellers got the same services as urban dwellers, they would have to pay extra in some way, and things like septic tank charges are how it should happen. We all have to drink the water as well. If people want to live in one off housing they have to take the downside as well. I live in the city – I’m surrounded by concrete, but I have a decent bus service, and my shite is treated (I hope!) by the council.

@Donncha Foley …. so what you are suggesting is that rural tax payers do not have the same rights to services as urban tax payers??? Perhaps we should all sell up and move to the city and double the population overnight thereby overcrowding your public transport and flooding the sewers : )

Donncha. The houses in the country are available for any of us to buy too. Not applicable to this argument really.

That’s my point – if you live in the country you get benefits you don’t get in the city. But there is also a downside. Your house/rent may cost less but you will probably spend more on travel, septic tank charges etc. Your can’t expect to have the good of both situations.

@mairin, of course rural dwellers have the same rights, but they may end up costing more, if you want the benefits of rural living as well. People living in close proximity in urban areas provide an economy of scale, and are cheaper to provide services for e.g. Water, roads, sewerage, policing, transport.

Grand Donncha but do you not think that we have enough division in our country, civil war left us with FF and FG as main choices for governments. Now we have the Private Sector vs the Public Sector and now you’re muting a division between rural and urban? I’m tired of it.

You are spot on John. Thanks for the correction. Fixed in the story now.

Patrick Nulty .

Sinn Fein and “grab everything you can” lefties are refusing to pay…so that’s convinced me, I will pay.

I doubt Aengus would pay the fine, nor could he afford it taking the average industrial wage as he does.

Then dont pay the 2500 euro fine. if 10 percent of those eligible dont pay thats well over 100,000 do you think there is space in the jails for all of those people?

The TD’s I’d imagine would refuse to pay the fine.

amazing how rte has managed to make the public hold this against those TDs . Are you REALLY that utterly stupid?????????? THEY ARE DOING THIS FOR YOU, AND THEY WILL NOT PAY THE FINE THEY WIL GO TO JAIL IF THEY HAVE TO!!!!!!!!! I saw that this was the opinion RTE was trying to force on people but i diddnt think it would work. IS THEIR ANYTHING YOU PEOPLE WILL NOT AGREE TO????? ANY CHARGE YOU WONT PAY??? you make me sick

so much for the “fighting irish”

You know Cowen is on a 150 k pa pension for possibly the worst work ever complete in that position since our independence. And Bertie. Start there.

@Niall: You surely realise that that’s not an answer…

Maybe the Government will take the hint that the Irish public is tired of injecting funds into the banking system? None of this tax will be used for public services, so don’t pretend that to be the case.

It can come from the over paid Government or how about they forfeit all their ridiculous expenses.

This really matters to me.

@ Holeymoley… Yes Joe is an Irritant most of the time but I think it’s because of his extreme commitment to the people of Ireland.He is hard work, however theres a lot of people in this country whom are sick to death with worry because of all this very heavy news of Property, Septic tank and water taxes / charges. “It’s not your fault” we were told by Enda in his state of the nation speech, What a load then when his and Gilmores parties are introducing such heavy handed additions to peoples outgoings. There will be no extra benefits to you and your City, village of town. This money is being earmarked for export.
When people like Joe Higgins say they are opposed you can be sure they will stick to their word. Things are changing at such a rapid pace today that some people need to say STOP wait a minute.
So as much as Independents Sinn Fein and Joe Higgins might annoy some of you, they are your Countrymen and Women, and because they see things as bad for you they say it. Where is our unity as a nation anymore?. Are you all too comfortable with how the country is being run? Do you have no problem paying every tax without question?. One day we will all be Old, Dead and Gone.What the F are we leaving for the future generations? .
I love this country but Im not prepared to pay stupid unfair and unbalanced taxes, We all need to pull together and put aside differences and dislikes of certain people and enjoy being part of something we all can do to make living in this country fair and enjoyable for now and the future.
Thats why Im definitley opposing this property tax and standing beside people who’s politics sometimes worry or annoy me. Please think and act on what your Irish heart tells you, and if you pay the tax, fine it’s your decision and I wont hold that against anyone.

Wish I could give you 100 thumbs up Tom. My Irish heart loves the language.

I’m on E188 a week BTEA, paying higher car tax, higher diesel, higher college fees, septic tank charges, higher vat (everything) and now they want to criminalise me if I don’t pay a household charge too. What the hell is this country coming too!

What 400,000 are you talking about? Unemployed people with their own houses will have to pay this too. The same amount as a millionaire. Seriously, this has to be resisted from the get go. Even if everyone doesn’t pay for the first year and see what happens, it is only e30 fine and by then they may have to have a rethink about the whole thing.

Let’s stand together for once please!

What did you eat for supper?? :(

A TD? …with some fava beans and nice chianti. FFFFFF. ;)

So you want to lock up my TD (independent) – who represents me very well? What do you think that tells me about your respect for my democratic rights? And what crime do you accuse them of anyway? Or are we now to contemplate the locking up of people we don’t like as normal? We really need some civics education in this country. To preserve democracy requires endless vigilance on the part of the people.

No, you need not pay a fine. You can go to prison. Which I think would be better. Would I like to know that my money is being given to bankers, simply because I gave in to paying an unjust charge, or go to prison, with my conscience clean and the knowledge that I put my country’s principles first? When one breaks an unjust law, he must do with the willingness to accept the penalty. Martin Luther King said “an individual who breaks a lwa that conscience tells him is unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty of staying in jail to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for law”.
These laws are unjust. They are not there to help the country, but rather as part of the EU/IMF/ECB agenda for raising money to pay back the bankers debts (and in the mean, give the bondholders a bit of a profit too). The ultimate law are the people, and their needs and rights. You may call this a publicity stunt, I disagree. You can criticise SF and the ULA all you want, but one thing you can’t criticise them for is their principles, and their willingness to stand by them. Even if this was a publicity stunt, would you rather they sat by and watched their fellow countrymen struggle under yet another austere and cruel judgement, when those who benefit are those who deserve most to pay, simply so as not to appear to be seeking ‘publicity’?
Just because some TDs are willing to stand by their principles, you are prepared to call it a publicity stunt. In other words, whenever someone does something good, it is not with good in mind, on their own selfish ambition.

So when does the household charge become too expensive? 100? 200? 2500? The line has got to drawn here!

I agree David the line has to be drawn and people have to be advised what it will be going forward. I am annoyed over it as already pay a fortune in management fees but the tax base has been eroded. The other options are increase income tax, reduce the dole, reduce services etc. Im not supporting the tax just pointing it out. I overall don’t have a problem with a property tax if it includes bin collections, maintenance etc so if these costs were incorporated into the property tax it might be an option that people can live with. The idea of just paying a tax and no benefit to the area you live in is lunacy so its a case of wait and see. The sooner we are given the full picture of how much into the future we will be paying the better. There is too many question marks for people and the Government needs to advise people where the stand.

I have a daughter born in 2008, when she is 23 we will still be paying the interest on the money buried to pay off unsecured bonds….do you honestly think that our ‘meagre’ contribution is going to go anywhere towards keeping our children (nieces, nephews) in this country? Not a hope. That is why we have to draw the line now.

Niamh, The bondholders should have been told to take a hike but the previous Government signed us up to pay them off. The household charge was coming in and was advised before the election campaign by most parties. If we didn’t have the bondholders we will still be in the mess as I said previously the tax base has been eroded. We are borrowing money at present to pay for public services, dole, childrens allowance etc and we need to get the countries finance back in order. How long do people think we would be able to fund all these services/payments without paying additional taxes or else the Governement rips up Croke Park which I would be in favour off to bring in additional savings. It may come down to no childrens allowance etc in the future or seriously reduced along with the dole etc if the tax base is allowed to continue to erode. we cannot borrow indefinately so we have to get the tax system sorted and this is just 1 measure.