Hear hear! Many of my friends in the US are expressing the same sentiment – and face being branded terrorists as a result thanks to the Patriot Act and the NDAA.

Derek, it’s the “rich assholes” who do most of the donating to charaties.

I do believe for every dollar they donate they get 2 back in tax exemptions for large donations.

Derek, you’re obviously not a tax accountant…..

Iran have been attacking people in Iraq and Israel for years.

Incorrect william (read a history book )… Iraq declared war on Iran backed by the USA.. Israel has never being officially at war with Iran but they have being covertly attacking each other..

Let’s be honest William isreal are well capable of defending themselves.

Peter, I’m not referring to the Iran/Iraq war. Iran have been responsible for thousands of deaths in Iraq since Iraq became a free country.

Arming Hamas,Hezbollah and Assad,blowing up Jews and others in Argentina,issuing a fatwa against Salman Rushdie.Anyone who could come on here and portray Iran (or at least the regime and it’s supporters) as a passive victim is one-eyed to say the least.

@ Charles, in that case are America in any moral position to go round enforcing their will on others?
They’ve armed both sides and advised both sides in the Iran / Iraq war, armed Kuwait and then attacked them, invaded Iraq on zero evidence of WMDs, supported Al Queda (their apparent mortal enemies and reason for invading Afghanistan this time) in Libya to topple Gadaffi, and perhaps most relevant -are the ONLY nation to have dropped the bomb, twice!

Shanti, As usual with the anti-American side you take some fact,then throw in a lot of fiction and some fantasy.America is the guarantor of our way of life.Without it we’d be subjugated by Nazis or Soviets.

Ah Charles, with regards “if it weren’t for America we would have been subjugated by Nazis or Soviets”
I direct your attention to the Conference at Yalta, where America was only too happy to sacrifice most of eastern Europe to Stalin.
To believe that these guys are pursuing peace is hopelessly starry eyed in view of their actions.

Iraq pt 3 I think you’ll find

love that song

to a point. i believe irans immediate objective is to prevent any us led threat

But america gets its oil from Saudi Arabia

“Seams to me” sounds like you don’t know what you’re talking about.

And you do William? So the yanks are not hungry for war? So they have the planets best interest at heart? Please explain

Jibberish, jibberish. Why mention the “Yanks”? Iran is a fascist dictatorship. Other than the Communist dictatorship of China and the dodgy democracy of Russia all countries oppose Iran’s plan to obtain a nuclear bomb.

And William, as yet there is no evidence that Iran has a bomb in its possession, or that they are pursuing armament.
While America are basically invading every country in the region, on sheer hypocrisy – as they are the only nation ever to have used these sorts of weapons.
Please, do not forget that Iraq did not have WMDs, this was the outcome of the reports of the inspectors sent in, but they went to war all the same.. Those are the actions of aggressors, that cannot be denied.

the western world cannot force a fake form of democracy on anybody that doesn’t have it, and they cannot stop a country from exploring the option of nuclear energy, its cleaner and stops burning of fossil fuels. its about power and money that’s all.

William, you are aware of the dozens of US military bases that surround Iran? Could you point out the Iranian bases which surround America?

Its actually not a “Jewish vote”, its the right-wing fundamentalist Christian vote that hate anything to do with Islam. Its scary how right wing the USA has become for a democratic country, it has very little political choice- Right wing Republicans of Centre-Right democrats with the occasional centre.

Can I ask you the same question as above? Are you OK with fascist Iran having a nuclear bomb capable of destroying a city?

Please, to avoid anti semitism, which is indeed wrong, may I ask you to rephrase that as the Zionist vote. As this would encompass the Christian element Fiachra has described. Not all Jewish people consider Israels behaviour to be acceptable, and to tar them all with the same brush as the more fervent Zionists is clearly unfair.

Put it this way William, are Iran really that stupid- no theyre not so whats the use of a nuclear weapon? A guarantee that the US and Israel wont invade due to their use of the Euro for trading oil, can we really blame them for that? Also im more concerned with Israel having Nuclear weapons and lets not forget who it was that forged/got Irish passports for their murder squad…

how is it scary that a democracy should go in a certain way fiachra? that is the idea after all

Its scary because of the polarisation of American politics whereby the vast majority vote for whoever because they know the other candidate wont get in then- the candidates are now drifting further and further to the right, so now its a case that the people choose between centre-right and right wing candidates whereby the moderately leftists to centre-lefts vote democrat because of the fear that a right wing fundamentalist gets in. This succesion then grows to the stage where it has gone so much to the right that any left wing people become desperate to stop other candidates so they do not try to split the moderate vote.

Less than 2% of the US population is Jewish. However, their combined wealth is, allegedly, somewhere around 40%.

The “massive” Jewish vote is about 2%. Mary Davis territory. Jews donate generously to the Democrat Party and to Obama. Like the Irish, who have a lot more votes than the Jews. And didn’t everyone think the whole Bill Clinton, jobs for Ireland, thing this week was just fantastic? So there is political lobbying by a variety of interest groups in America! Shock! Horror!

The Zionist vote, by comparison, is huge. And is associated with this right wing ideology, it holds far more sway as a result..
Not to mention the media bias being demonstrated against Dr Ron Paul, between showing footage from last years CPAC convention rather than this years – and refusing to show the real footage after their apology (it was a vastly different response). Leaving him out of the discussion in states where he has polled second, smear campaigns based upon something proven to be unrelated to Dr Paul himself. And the general confusion in the States about Caucases, Primaries, Delegates and The Electoral College really doesn’t help..

Ron Paul is actually looking rather good still, as the delegate votes show a different trend to what is generally pushed in the media (such as Santorums perceived return to the race).

To call that democracy is an insult to the ideology of democracy, as imperfect as it may be.

How come so many people love Ron Paul but hate the Tea Party? Or do they know the connections?

From what I can ascertain from the videos and opinions expressed by my American friends, it his is policy on ending the Fed and doing away with the doublespeak.
They see him as a man with a consistent voting record – who actually reads the bills put before the house before voting on them, who seems honest and not greedy like the others.
His relationship to the tea party movement is not really focused upon because to a certain degree the tea party has become a joke. Like controlled opposition.. My friends do not think Ron Paul is going to change everything, But having him get in would help. They know they cannot rely solely on leaders for change, Obama proved that.

Graham, you’re OK with Iran having a nuclear bomb then?

William Russia had 30,000 plus nuclear weapons… Did the USA attack Russia …no they talked.. That’s all they need to do to resolve this .. The USA employs 20,000 diplomats and I think it’s about time they used them effectively. Sanctions are an act of war and they only end up driving the people behind a tyrant

Unlike Iraq, Iran are known to have nuclear weapons. I am by no means making excuses for invading yet another country just stating the the two countries are different.

I’m no fan of Margaret Tatcher but she once said that the nuclear bomb was the greatest peace-keeper between nations that hold them.
Maybe we should all get one.

Peter, they’ve been talking for years. It’s not working.

Nothing to do with weapons, it’s about oil, always has been.

Well Leon Panetta the US defense secretary declared last week that Iran didn’t have a nuclear bomb or the capability of making one on television addressing congress.

@ Stephen (without surname)
There is no evidence that Iran has nuclear weapons. There is evidence that they are pursuing nuclear power, which is completely within the treaties they have signed and legal.

The “West” has ACCUSED them of having weapons, this is not proof. Nuclear Inspectors have entered Iran to assess this and until they deliver their report, to say with any certainty that Iran have nuclear weapons is clearly untrue.
Mind you, if you would cast your mind back about a decade or so, the US accused Iraq of having WMDs, and in spite of the inspectors confirming that this was false, the US went in there anyway.

By comparison, if we are to listen to Rick Santorum, the US already has a program for assassinating those who they suspect of working on nuclear arms – in spite of the lack of evidence explained above. But please, let him tell you himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8uNcIEvGdo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

There has not been any Iranian aggression. America by comparison has invaded almost all of the other countries in the region, they seem to be closing in on Iran, and Iran have good reason to be worried, and DEFEND themselves.

I think you will find te American government are using doublespeak.

You have some A-Grade intellegence on Iranian nuclear capabilities there Stephen, have you passed it on to the CIA?

That was a very defensive posture the Ayatollah took last week,threatening Israel-no room for playing with words either this time.(I realise threatening Israel is highly fashionable these days).

Charles- so is threatening Iran…

Terry, quite a chunk of that 20% were Iranian children that the Ayatollahs sent across mine fields to detonate the mines.

Fiachra KME, Do you seriously believe that Israel wants to “wipe out” Iran? What it wants is to stop Iran, which repeatedly expresses its wish to see israel wiped out, getting nuclear arms which it could apply to that task. So when the Ayatollah talks about destroying Israel (paraphrase), do you believe him or do you think it’s the demented ranting of a harmless old man?

Charles I’m not sure if we discussed this before or not, but the idiom of “wiping Israel off the map” does not exist in persian, and like that “Magda” article in the independent is a result of selective translation.. And a deliberate attempt to push ann agenda while ignoring simple facts.

So what exactly did the Ayatollah say, as you understand it?

As a non Persian speaker I cannot comment on what Attoloyah said. But as you will read here, the idiom of “wiping Israel off the map” does not exist in Persian. I have confirmed that much with two Iranians.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/144682/was-wiping-israel-map-misquote/michael-rubin

Shanti,I’m referring to what the Ayatollah said last week, not to what Ahmadinejad said five years ago.I thought everyone interested in this situation knew about it.

Charles I appreciate that – do we have his statement in Persian so that we may try to get a translator who is not pushing an agenda like the US?
My link was merely referring to the fact that the idiom to “wipe Israel off the planet” as you referred to, does not exist.
There have been numerous calls by both Ahmadinjad and Attoloyah for a regime change in Israel and an end to the occupation, as they see it, of lands they have no right to..
I was referring to this mistranslation in the west – I did specify I couldn’t speak for Attoloyah’s latest statement as I am not a Persian speaker..

Please Shanti, I said “wipe out”, nothing about maps.

Actually, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, Oman and Saudi Arabia are lobbying a great deal harder than Israel.
All of them have substantial Shia populations, and (partially justified)institutional paranoia towards Iran.
Israel’s posture towards Iran gets more attention because:
a) They have nukes
b) They have bombed nuclear facilities in Syria and Iraq before
c) They have the most high profile and influential relationship with the US.

I had to read this twice before I was happy it didn’t mean anything.

What about the Israeli perspective?There was a serious attempt to wipe out European Jews in the Holocaust.Then three wars,1948,1967 and 1973 in any one of which defeat would have led to wholesale slaughter of Jews and the end of the Jewish State.So now Iran is ratcheting up the belligerent rhetoric,while showing all the signs of seeking a nuclear weapon (and having already targeted Jews as far away as South America). So should Israel shrug its shoulders and let be what will be? Or rely on the neighbours to come to its aid?The horrible truth for Israelis is that their’s is the only country on Earth facing an existential threat.

@ Charles, Israel can look after themselves.. Unlike Iran they haven’t signed the treaties around nuclear power, or bioweapons for that matter.
While the UN can demand that Iran submit to inspections (which they have). Israel are not under this obligation. So for all we know they could be far more dangerous than the whole lot of their adversaries combined.
They have already dropped white phosphorous on people, and faced no penalty. I’d be more wary of those who refuse to participate in international treaties on such a dangerous matter.

There was a general strike in Israel last week for 3 days and barely made the news. They’re pissed off the way everyone else is with their government hawks.

hear hear

Agreed, it is those in government who seem to have this urge to perpetuate war. There are people in America and Israel as anti war as we are. In Iran too if you would care to look..
When governments start to ignore their electors then democracy is shown to be no more perfect than any other system of governance. You can get power hungry, compassionless and agressive people in any religion or walk of life just as easy as you will find the opposite. The capacity to charm the pants off the electorate or insert themselves into power is all they need.

You said it Shanti, except the day might come when Israel isn’t so lucky, when some strategic blunder leads to military defeat. To borrow a phrase from years gone by, Israel’s enemies only have to be lucky once. I know you’re a straight talker so tell me honestly, what do you think will happen to Jewish men, women and children if they ever are defeated?

I’m really sorry Charles, could you possibly rephrase that? I am not sure I have totally understood you, and would prefer to clarify rather than take you up wrong (I’ve done that a couple of times this evening!)

If Israel lose a war what do you think will happen to its Jewish people ( and their “collaborators?”).

Well there’s a sizeable Jewish population in Iran, perhaps we should ask them?

You’re ducking and diving Shanti.

Ah, sorry – you got there before me!!

People living under the Shari’a law are far from freedom, Darren. But that’s my humble opinion..

Eh.. You do know the onion is purely satirical right?

Yeah of course , tis a fun read (c;…..but the facts remain, the US is the rouge state, they terrorise far more people then Iran ever did they have a policy of preemptive strike, if you don’t agree with their policies they attack you…they have roughly 8500nuclear weapons, Israel has about 200 nuclear weapons…US and Israel have a long history off illegal wars etc. …..yep and I know Ahmadinejad is mad…but lets leave the Iranian people sort that out themselves.
Anyhow the Elite, the 1% and the Zionists want (need) a war!
Israel wants to break the Iran, Syria, Hezbollah axis and
They;re in trouble back home the 99% are about to revolt…a good war will make everyone patriotic again and 99% will fall back into line (they hope) just like what Thatcher did back in the 80s with the Falkands War…..that saved her right wing ass!

Its a bit crazy for the US to have 2 carriers there, what with the Iranians having Russian made anti-ship missiles designed to destroy a Super Carrier, presently there is no none defense against these missiles,….as The US has 2 carriers sailing presently in the narrow gulf…..it like the US is teasing the Iranians by sailing them in full view of the Iranian coast. …..surely another set up by the Americans or hawkish elements within the government ….another pearl Harbour again!….oh no the attacked our nuclear carriers we must nuke them……dangerous stuff!

Interesting, another Lusitania?

yes, that would be a way better analogy
Also the Israelis are being sneaking, they want the war and they want US involvement and the Pentagon knows it,
last week the US cancelled military exercises with Israel.
Its seemed the upcoming exercise would be a prefect situation for Israel to start something with Iran with America there doing exercises with them…it wouldn’t be the first time Israel bombed a US ship and killed US personnel and got away and tried to blame it on someone else. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

Anyway…the Hawks and the Zionists….are at it again……lets hope the doves, and the armed forces of both sides and the 99% …they real people of the world don’t have to bear the burden of more avoidable death and destruction just so the a tiny few can benefit.

well the west continually places a gun to the head of all and any mid east country and have since the british empire left. i dont think theres anything other than truth in this statement. so in your eyes its ok for the west to flex muscles at the middle east but its not ok for iran to attempt to arm itself against what is clearly an imminent us led engagement? i frankly think noone should have these weapons. but if the us does then iran should go down its own road. i think the difference here is the us are the only country ever to have used these. and they continue to use them to bully the mid east into submission for us gain. i would like to say i support no undemocratic regime in the middle east or anywhere else. the us’s behaviour globally is much more of a threat to anyone than the internal atrocitues in iran. the us are the problem. not mid eastern leaders.

Well said Sean, my sentiments exactly.

and @Max Krzyzanowski, You hit the nail on the head.
Best concise description of events I’ve read in a while.
Religion and neighbouring paranoia plays a large part in all this.

I’d say B, but would also argue that it is a false dilemma. All nations should agree unilaterally to destroy all nuclear weapons for the sake of humanity, the animal kingdom and the earth.

Yes but we can’t un-invent them, once the technology is there there can never be enough trust to ensure they don’t reappear.

I know, but we should never lose hope that humanity may progress past these childish squabbles and see the benefits of peace to all of humanity.