Rubbish. Pro life is anti murder!

Rubbish. Pro life is anti murder.

Pro- life, but not at the risk to a woman’s life, yes a mother is of greater importance to her family than the unborn child ,

Paddy — You are a moral disgrace. How dare you presume to have any say in what a woman does with her own body!

@ Paddy – The Catholic church has been complicit in more deaths over the years than its flock would care to remember.

Pro life?I can’t see how as without abortion the risk to thousands of women are currently at risk mentally and physically because they are been FORCED to have a child they might not be able to provide for

The pro lifers really really hate being called anti choice. They then throw out that pro choice means pro abortion. Well you can call me pro abortion any day ye anti choice brigade!

I will support whatever legislation is required to give women the right to do what they want to their own bodies and whatever is inside their bodies aswell!

@ Brian
Brian that is a lie if you are just provoking, or stupidity if you are true to your own beliefs.
@ Petr
And what kind of testing has your moral compass being subjected to, I suspect condemnation by you could be a plus in more moral circles. Thanks.
I don’t mean to be too hard on either of the two of you, but you are such begrudgers following a great day out

A great day out is going to Croke Park Paddy and it’s kinda funny you call someone a begrudger when you go far beyond that and call someone pro-death because they disagree with your opinion.

I know my history Paddy. Clearly you haven’t got a clue. I’m sure you’re familiar with your church’s outrageous opposition to condoms in the developing world, despite the fact they actually STOP PEOPLE FROM DYING. That’s just for starters.
And look up the term begrudgery in the dictionary, you haven’t a notion what it means.
You’re a church troll and a really bad one at that.

Works out at 0.7% of the population

True Brian, the church also supported the no-condom regime in Africa, resting in millions of HIV-positive men and women and UNBORNE CHILDREN born with HIV who only live a few years. But Paddy said yesterday that the church has opened hospitals there to take care of those people. How nice of the church to stop people from protecting themselves from the disease and then show mercy. Humanitarian organizations do not have enough resources trying to educate people there after the church’s brainwashing. People die in millions. Why do not they care about all HIV-positive babies in Africa and continue their death-causing propaganda? Because it is not about lives but control over people. The same is here: they will risk everyone’s life to keep their control rolling through brainwashing people more and more. So Paddy is basically supporting an organization that is responsible for the death of millions of Africans. That is pro-death and not only anti-choice.

@brian- you are a moral disgrace. You support killing babies. See. We can all call names. Not sure what that achieves, though

Whatever you say you have to give it to them they got the numbers to turn up……..

I assume all you pro-choicers are pro-choice in relation to heroin and cocaine. Sure you’d have to be as you care so much for the rights of people to do what they like with their bodies. Or are you a bunch of hypocrites?

Cocaine and heroin can’t potentially save a woman’s life if complications arise in a pregnancy

Sad individuals with nothing better to do.

Correct Brian, and we still have thousands of parents dragging their kids to Roman Catholic Churches every week.

I didn’t call anyone any names, show me where I did.

@John

How is having an abortion in any way whatsoever comparable to heroin addiction? Heroin kills. Heroin can ruin families, possibly lead to homelessness, unemployment etc. At very worst, abortion can leave someone with a bit of regret. Cop on you uneducated idiot.

@ Conor Buggy
Glad you accept where you stand Conor. Just one core objection to you comment Conor, there is no “right” that exists, which allows us to kill an innocent.
@ Daisy Chainsaw
Lets just, step back into reality. There were 30000 pro life, and 200 pro choice. It is reasonable to assume that the 4 million at home are pro rata. Enda will find out soon enough.

Abortion should be legalized like any other European country. Forcing women to die due to a quasi-religious element is no longer applicable to the 21st century.

@ Niall Noonan
Nobody if pro death by merely disagreeing with me, however if you are pro abortion, you need to realise you are talking about taking a life, irregardless of whatever mental gymnastics you undertake internally to convince yourself otherwise.

@ Brian
It’s important Brian that you understand that this issue is based on morals and ethics, and not any specific dogma. There were people from many and no denominations there today.
As for contraception, that debate is for another day, today we fight for the life of the innocent.
Are you redefining the term troll? Or do you believe everyone should agree with you.

Well Paddy if these numbers are representative of the views of the population of Ireland on the Abortion issue, how do youexplain the fact that the recent poll showed that 64% of people are in favour of legislating for X?

Is this poll a conspiracy by those evil baby-killers? Time you woke up, bought a biology textbook and joined us over here in the 21st century.

You wouldn’t have a clue about drugs either Joe,
And since when did they have anything to do with this argument anyway ?

@paddy.it is based on morals and ethics which you must have none

They want enda “to keep his promise” good luck with that, sure he’s kept every promise he’s made so far. NOT.

Those people are pro-life not Pro-abortion and anti-child like Clare Daly and her elk.

Haha comment of the year by Caitriona….. No sorry comment of the decade.
With people like this backing the pro abortion movement there is no hope of reasoning with them.
Caitriona can not even acknowledge that abortions kills. Reading comments like this displays the lack of understanding and warped logic of the pro choice/abortionists.

Delighted to see 25,000 people turn out in support of the Pro-Life movement. Well done to all of the speakers including Mickey Harte. It was sensational.

@paddy thats the difference between you and me. I respect a woman to make the right decision for herself and her body. You do not.

I do not like abortion but I do not like the concept of my sisters and female mates not having full control and rights to their bodies more.

IHaving a abortion kills a baby. It can leave people with a lot more then regret. Especially if you a father, grandparent etc who are supposed to accept that because its the mothers body it is her exclusive choice and theirs feeling are of no consequence. When a mother has an abortion it affects more people than you have implied in your reply.

Having a abortion kills a baby. It can leave people with a lot more then regret. Especially if you a father, grandparent etc who are supposed to accept that because its the mothers body it is her exclusive choice and theirs feeling are of no consequence. Wenn a mother has an abortion it affects more people than you have implied in your reply.

Color. Spooky that your comment gets 666 thumbs up

Phillipa,your full for Bs.if you had a daughter and she wanted a abortion there is sweet f all you could do about it..I’m really pi5sed at how STUPID people are if a woman wants a abortion let her have it here instead of going to England for one..yous anti abortion are the murders for every woman that commits suicide over getting pregnant or ends up mentally ill because she had to give away a child she could not care for when a abortion could have saved them..yous are a evil brain washed cult…down with the church and its anti life pro rape/peado

So you think being pro choice is a positive option ? So you would agree with the over 90% of abortions in the UK done for social convenience ? Or abortions done up to the time of birth because the child had a disability ? Choice is a complicated construct . You should start to de construct it before coming out with such half naked ideas . And by the way yes I m against choice when dealing with killing . I disagree with abortion euthanasia and capital punishment . We are not dealing here with the choice between a mars bar or a kit kat but with living or killing !

Choice ! What choice for the child ?

@brian: “you’re a church troll”, plus the comment that was taken down calling Paddy a moral disgrace. Seriously, man- read your own comments before launching the moral indignation.

The pro-choice are not pro-choice they are anti-life.

@mark- funny how anti-European you are when it comes to economics but so pro-European when it comes to this issue???? A cynic would think it depends whether they agree or disagree with you?

@conor- why do you not like abortion?

@conor buggy- would you have been supportive if your mother made a decision to abort you because pregnancy didn’t suit her at the time? There’s more to it than a woman deciding what to do with her body. It’s not like deciding whether or not to get a tattoo. There’s other people (or prospective people) involved. Some people in society make bad decisions.

@Marion Murphy

I want to see Caire Daly’s pro-choice elk. I’d say it has lovely antlers :)

If someone’s stupid enough to do heroin or cocaine let them!! Some people say well I had a hard life…. Bollox! Everyone’s had a hard life now get on with it.!

Paddy, pro rata? You are dreaming. It’s easy round up fanatics like ye while the rest of us just get on with things. The very first comment on this page with the amount of red thumbs is all the pro rata you need.

Pog nobody is forcing anyone to have babies, did you ever hear of contraception , and if you make a mistake, there’s the morning after pill,

Again pro- life but not giving equal rights to the child, the mother always takes president

The numbers are easy when there is a recruitment centre in every parish (a church) & money to lay on all the busses needed.

Actually it’s not reasonable to assume that, at all. The Pro-life rally organisers spent a fortune dredging every parish for every possible body to turn out… It’s reasonable to assume that almost every one who is strictly pro-life in the country who is also able to walk, was there…. leaving a country full of people with a much more complex & nuanced view…

No money was spent, nor buses laid on, nor expensive posters printed in their thousands by the organisers of the pro-choice rally. They let people know about it thru social networks & people got themselves there because they personally felt it mattered, not cause someone in the church signed them up for a day out… It’s reasonable to assume there are many, many more of them out there who couldn’t make the domestic arrangements necessary or spend the money necessary to get there.

And anybody who favours a ban on abortion has to come to term with the fact that they agree with coercing a woman to be pregnant against her will… a coercion not a million miles away from rape…

@alanharte such a logical statement there. I wouldnt exist to form an opinion. But knowing my mother as I do as the woman she is, if she had an abortion she would have done it for her needs and her reasoning and for her body. That should be her right. At present she nor any woman in this country can say they have the right to do what they want to their own bodies.

You as a man do. Women do not. People who think abortion is a form of contraception or a lifestyle choice havent a clue. Comparing having an abortion to getting a tattoo as a choice is completely idiotic and illogical.

@ Niall
I actually agree Niall, if the “do you want abortion in Ireland” question was put to the public, I believe following the discussion of the past few months, pro life would still triumph, by a 60:40 margin.
It was you who laid claim to the 4 million people as being somehow in favour of bringing in abortion, when there were only 200 at the other side.

Well, the question would be meaningless paddy, because, as was discussed at committee last week, abortion already happens in Ireland, despite the pathetic efforts of the God squad to change the definition of what the word means following the death of Savita Halapanavar.

@Paddy. Stop Droning on about the size of the counter protest. You still haven’t answered my question. I’ll repeat it:
if these numbers are representative of the views of the population of Ireland on the Abortion issue, how do you explain the fact that the recent poll showed that 64% of people are in favour of legislating for X?

Now instead of pretending that a 25K turnout is a majority in a country of over 4 million, answer the question please.

Sod the polls..
Paddy this is attempt number three, will you listen?

The size of the protest and counter protest doesn’t count for anything.

We have had TWO referendums, the most official poll that exists, ones that are legally binding on our constitution.

The Irish people have voted to keep the suicide clause in there, it’s going in.
THAT’S DEMOCRACY. Like it or lump it..

So what that money made it easy to attend, 25.000 people still bothered to turn up, it’s arrogant to dismiss them completely, but if the views expressed here are the best they can do then that’s other issue

@ Conor Buggy
It is true Conor there are differences between us, I believe in laws that govern societies, not anarchy, where all of us can make up laws for ourselves.
I’d hope that among those laws, as per 40.3.3, we would protect the most vulnerable as a society.
Among the rights to their bodies, just like all other rights, come responsibility, and either by accident or design most of us know that intimacy may lead to the creation of a new life. Our freedom enables us to control our behaviour, our behaviour is an expression of our willingness to care for that new life. The pro choice idea is just denying our responsibility for our own actions.
I also love my “sisters” just as much as you, I even chose to marry one, but there is another group of sisters you certainly don’t respect and that is the 50%+ you are willing to abort without due respect.

A foetus is not a woman Paddy.

I abide by the civil law of this country. i do not cling to morals defined by another organisation. Tell me will you honour the legislation when it is forthcoming or not?

Also a simple question for you that I would like a plain simple yes or no answer to. Do you trust women to make decisions for their own bodies when they are pregnant?

@ John Everyman
John we all use shorthand when we are expressing ourselves, assuming a certain ability by the reader to fill in the gaps.
Yesterday witnessed one of the largest gatherings/vigils to protest in Ireland in the last year, on a very cold, feet numbing evening in January. This is significant whether you understand it or not.
You and I should both know that a poll is greatly influenced by the question asked. So ill go with your question, am I in favour of legislating for the x-case? Of course I am. Am I in favour of abortion, of course I’m not. The fact that the high court ruled means we have to legislate for the x-case. Now, what legislation do we require? Lets make the medical councils guidelines statutory, and if necessary have another amendment to exclude suicidal presentation as a grounds for an abortion. So what does 64% mean, nothing.

Well less turned up for the pro choice march so by that logic does that mean that only .3% are pro choice??

Does the same apply then to the people who showed up at the pro choice rally?

@ Conor Buggy
The 30,000 yesterday had no problem viewing the foetus as a baby. I used “woman” as that was your term, perhaps female would have been more correct, but if semantics help you maintain the blindness you require to promote abortion, then I wish you well. But the zygote, clump of cells, foetus etc. is a baby, a human with human rights defined by our constitution.
You should realise Conor that I am not a child whom you may be entitled to demand a yes or no answer from, because as you should know these are not simple issues. Do I expect people (male or female) to always do the right thing? No. There are laws against stealing, does that mean I should not lock my car, ridiculous. Do I respect life at all stages, yes. Will mothers/fathers want to destroy their children, occasionally. Should I support legislation to stop stealing, yes. Should I support legislation to protect life, yes. Do I trust women to make whatever decision they wish, including killing the new life inside them, no. If we create a human being, we are obliged to care for it.

So in other words you cannot answer Paddy. I asked a simple question and you are not willing to answer. I suspect I know your answer anyway.

Yes or no questions do not denote childishness. They are the simplest form of questioning.

If you don’t trust a womans own judgement on her own body then state it!

And why did you bring your anti choice vigil numbers into it? Well done them on getting out on a miserable day and being heard, thats what democracy is all about.

Do I agree with them? Absolutely not and never ever will. I will always support a womans right to do whatever she likes to her own body including aborting a foetus……. Which is not a person or a baby until gestation is complete.

Paddy for the umpteenth time.

Suicide clause stays in. Why? Because there have been two referendums which set out to try and exclude it and they both failed.

You and your anti choice friends are in the minority Paddy. The people of Ireland voted, and we voted to keep the suicide clause. If we are going to vote on any amendments it should be on whether to repeal the 8th amendment, we only got one vote on that, it was 30 years ago and the two subsequent referenda indicate a more pro choice electorate.

You guys were out protesting against the government
a) legislating for the express will of the people, and
b) protecting women who’s lives may be in danger as a result of pregnancy, because that is all they have committed to legislating for..

Please Paddy, at least have the courage of your convictions to be honest about the intentions of your protest.

@ Conor Buggy
There is a clue in your own comment. You refer to it as a simple question, well I kind of agree with you except I take the other meaning of simple. It is simplistic to believe you can contain your question in such simple boundaries.
Lets expand things a little further. If you were dealing with a man or a woman who had expressed thoughts indicating they wished to kill, would you consider it wise to give them a knife and then sit in an enclosed room with them, blindfolded.
If a woman or man wish to extract a tooth, or an appendix, that’s at their own discretion. No life lost. If I promote an environment where murder is illegal, and opportunities of murder are avoided, them I cannot promote an environment where pregnant women with difficulties, will be facilitated in destroying their baby. Everyone in society is capable of engaging in damaging practices, they being desperate, or male, or female, does not negate the requirement for law to discourage them from the damaging practices.

@ Conor Buggy
Conor it looks like you are loosing the run of yourself. I’m pro life, you are part of what is referred to as pro choice, but of course that ignores the choice of the baby. But wait, you don’t accept it’s life, eureka, and there we divide. It really does come down to that, you may argue choice, but you think and act “not life”.
I know Conor to never will accept, barring a miracle, the life in the womb. But of course I only contribute here for the benefit of others who may have an open mind, it would be sad if the only view presented to the generation who look for information here, was that the child is not worth the dignity it deserves.

@Conor. Women have to take some sort of responsibility also in fairness. If it doesn’t suit you to get pregnant, do your best not to. If you do, there are options other than abortion. Obviously rape etc. is a different story. I don’t know your mother but the point I’m making is there are people in society who make bad decisions and we make laws to address same. Drugs are illegal as a measure to ‘prevent’ people making bad decisions in taking them and ultimately becoming addicts. Would you like a situation where a woman decides because she has had a scan and sees her baby will be a girl has an abortion because she wants a boy? Or because she’s a teacher (no disrespect to them, just an example) and will get more maternity leave if the child is born in September so she aborts a foetus when she becomes pregnant in March? In society not all people are the kind you seem to think- those who make rational, measured decisions for the right reasons. There are many people who were adopted in Ireland over the years who might well have been aborted before they were born if same was available then.

Paddy of all the people on here declaring you have an open mind is one of the most ludicrous things I have heard to ever come from you. Your mind is not open, it is quite categorically closed. Espousing dogma is not the sgnature of an open mind. An articulate one maybe, but open? No.

Neither you nor I are capable of gestation. Yet I trust women to do what is right for themselves. You still will not say that you do not trust a pregnant woman to decide what is best for her body.

Yes alan I am aware that not all women are identical and that they should have responsibility for their actions. But you hit the nail on the head, it is their responsibility yet they do not have the legal right to do what they want to their bodies. How can a woman be responsible and excercise it when a legitimate choice she may wish to excercise is denied her?

I’ll answer the question Conor. Most women, yes, they are capable of making an informed and considered decision for themselves but some are not, no more than men. I lock my car and house because I know not everyone in society can be trusted to do right. As a general rule trust to make good decisions cannot be extended on a blanket basis to the whole female (or male) population and that’s just human nature.

@ Shanti Om
Shanti, just to reply to some of your comments, you are repetitive and type far to fast for me to answer all of your tangents.
The flawed x-case judgement makes your view that suicide is grounds for an abortion, correct. That indeed is why 30,000 came out yesterday to say, that is not what we want, if another referendum is needed to correct the courts interpretation of the will of the people, then so be it. But if Enda wishes to be historically viewed as the Herod, the leader who for the first time went after the innocent, rather than heeding the majority and giving the referendum if necessary, then on his head be the bloody consequences.
The suicide issue is the issue. All other aspects of the x-case can be dealt with by an implementation of the medical councils guidelines.
Put it to the people, ” the Irish people exclude suicidal presentation as grounds for an abortion”, if your pro choice vote is adequate then the proposition fails and abortion is legislated for. I am of course not a lawyer, and what I say is purely my own thoughts and not any organisations policy.

Yes alan of course. But they still should have the right to make the decision for themselves whether they are informed or not. Its their bodies and they should have the legal right to do what they need to do to excercise their responsibilities. Are we to become a nanny state where the people are not trusted to decide for themselves?

@ Conor Buggy
Conor, read again, I never said I have an open mind, I was clearly referring to other readers. But I hope I have an open mind, I don’t have to rely on your judgement into this trait TG.
I don’t espouse dogma here, I support and encourage positive morals and ethics.

You mean catholic morals and ethics yes?

Paddy.
There’s a reason I keep repeating the same thing over and over, it’s because you keep failing to address it.
We have had TWO referendums seeking to over turn the X case decision, we have had TWO referendums to remove suicide from the constitution, we have had the referendum you are asking for TWICE..

Is there some other way I can explain this to you so that it will sink in? The people voted. The people have accepted the threat of suicide as a legitimate grounds for abortion. You don’t like that, that’s fair enough. But it is the will of the majority.

There have been two chances to overturn the X Case decision, and they were both rejected. That is how democracy works.

You were protesting the government legislating to give effect to the will of the people as expressed via two referendums. What is your problem with democracy?

@ Conor Buggy
I try to say what I mean Conor. Your comment seems to imply that other creeds, agnostics and atheists have no source of good ethics and morals, this is not my point of view.
@shanti Om
I don’t accept your take on the referendums, nor do I accept the high courts interpretation, and I don’t mean to be presumptuous, just stating my understanding. That is why I believe another unfortunate clarification is needed, to express the will of the people and prevent abortion for suicidal presentation.

No Paddy, you are attempting to twist my words, and poorly at that. It was a rhetorical question.

Your morals and ethics are derived from Roman Catholicism are they not? That is what I was saying. Its clear to all that those are the morals and ethics you hold to.

I said nothing about the morals or ethics of atheists or agnostics or other religions. You attempted to assert that I did.

@ Conor Buggy
Implicit in your deduction that my morals and ethics are exclusively catholic, is the implication that atheists etc cannot deduce that life is precious from conception to natural death. Why not argue the case on issue, without constantly needing to deride the Catholic Church.
I didn’t consider your question rhetorical, as it appeared to demand an answer.

If you read that “implication” in my comment you are farther gone than I thought. Only someone as dogmatic as you appear to be would see that in my comment. I bring the catholicism out because in many many threads on here and as part of your career you rely on your catholicism for everything you say. You do not see beyond the bounds of it. In a way I should feel sorry for you. But I dont as you would no doubt think ill of it.

Stick to yer guns Paddy!
The majority of Ireland are pro-life despite what the media spin would have you think. Keep speaking in defence of the unborn. Ignore all the totally ineffective red thumbs in the journal.
Although fair play to the journal for allowing comments on all articles. Our national broadcaster, for which we pay, do not even do that. Keep it free and open lads and lasses!

Sean the final official Garda figure has now been revised to in excess of 35,000 although the media are sticking to the half-time count for some unknown reason.

@ Leigh de Paor
Thanks for the support Leigh. I think the Journal does a pretty fair job in reality also. Sometimes some of my comments get withdrawn, and there’s a larger number of pro choice than pro life articles, but that reflects their reader base, which is in no way a reflection of the population at large. The truth is that there is a much higher proportion of the twenty something’s blogging than the forty something’s +, which gives the readership a natural bias.
The vigil got a right going over as pro choice followers expect all the vigilers to be drooling or in a wheelchair, whereas even the photographs show a great cross section of society. Perhaps they should consider their own support base, I expect a very distinct peak at about 25, with a clear left/utilitarianism bent. This has become the age of self indulgence, and to hell with the consequences to my own life and the good of society. What is funny, is they think they are being modern, whereas the philosophy behind their approach to life, is very ancient.

When they’re about 150 times more in number than the other demonstration then you can’t really call it a poor turnout.

25,000 is a decent turnout for any protest in Dublin tbh. And I say that as someone who is diametrically opposed to them.

On a cold January day, 20K people is a massive turnout to be fair….ipads or no ipads!!!

OMG! Americans! Tea Party! I bet you also saw NRA members there, AR-15 in hands! Irish Pro-abortion campaigners have deep pockets thanks to the likes of Planned Parenthood and Chuck Feeney, you can’t construct andargument against one side receiving funds from abroad but not the other.

I don’t think any side should receive funds from abroad Laurence, this is an Irish matter that should be dealt with in this country

@Laurence Youth Defence/Life Institiute do receive money from the US, otherwise there’s no way they would have been able to bus people in and print those posters. For Pro-Choice rallies, you rarely see professionally printed placards, let alone fancy screens and people make their own way there!

@Niall, you show your stupidity by mentioning the Tea Party

OMG! Laurence has now shut up because he knows without American backing the anti-choice campaign is dead in the water.

Legislation is coming, it will include on the grounds of suicide and for foetal abnormalities and after that we can party like it’s 1999 BC and we’re living in Sodom and about to massacred by a supposedly pro-life god

Sorry Oaklane, I meant to say religious fanatics on the right of American politics. And the Tea Party is…..I can’t find a way to finish this sentence.

Hope the weather is nice in the States for you at the moment!

Pro this.. Pro that.. Pro the other, but with all due respect and thoughts to Mickey Harte with what happened his daughter, why is he on the back (or the front rather) of everything these days?
I know folks will say “Maybe he’s pro-life’ because he lost a daughter” and my heart genuinely felt his anguish & hurt, but what was he before this? A football manager, right?!

What we you before this? Is he not entitled to his opinion?

Agreed I wish mickey Harte would stick to football. I have no respect for someone who public ally backs a lying thieving family like the Quinns. In respect to his daughter I have full sympathy for his loss but maybe he should consider parveens loss and all the women who could die without legal clarity. Asides I trust women to control their own destinies.

Why do people keep mentioning his daughter? Out of the 25,000 people protesting today; I doubt he’s the only one that has been affected by bereavement.

Comment on his presence and continued support for populist bullsh1t… not on how losing his daughter might explain it!

Don’t disrespect Savita John, it really does nothing for the cause and the woman deserves the utmost respect.

I personally don’t have any problem with money being sourced from abroad to fund the Pro-life, that said I’m obviously bias. However it seems to have been done in a transparent manner and with no skulduggery, so I don’t really see the issue Niall?

Savitas untimely death was used and abused shamelessly by the pro-abortion movement, they brought her and her husband into this whole affair.

Check your facts Eric. Lying doesn’t strengthen your case in any way..

Actually, it was her husband that went public with it.

Please enlighten me on my lies shanti.

Did a pro choice/abortion grouping not bring Savitas and her husband tragic story to the attention of similar thinking journalists? It is common knowledge that the ‘spontaneous’ gatherings that happened in the days after the breaking of the story were the result of almost a week of preparation.

John Duggan you are a sorry excuse of a human being to say something like that. It just reinforces the fact that you so-called pro lifers couldn’t give two hoots about a girl once they are born. Shame on you. ,

Eric, it was the journalists who brought it to the attention of the organisers, as far as I remember. But even so, so what? What difference does it make if they had prior knowledge or not? Are you jealous the anti-choicers didn’t get that information or something?

The only reason the pro-choicers keep talking about Savita is because we have to keep dealing with the nonsense you lot keep spouting about her.

That is a disgrace full comment, have some respect Exactly how holy are you?????

Niall- 400 pro-abortionists. In Dublin City Centre.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/prochoice-activists-got-tipoff-on-tragic-death-3296844.html

Incorrect conor, the ‘Galway pro choice’ movement acknowledge in their press release that they fully advised Savitas friends and husband on all aspects of releasing the story. They also put Parveen and his friends in contact with the Irish times and not the other way around as you imply.

You can find the statement on wsm.ie

Savitas picture was used to ‘promote’ and ‘highlight’ the pro abortion agenda on many of the placards at the rally’s held. To say that her tragedy is not being used and taken advantage of is naive.

Eric.
Pro choice Galway were approached by Savitas friends who put them in touch with Praveen.
It was Praveens decision to go public, and he maintained full control throughout. How was he manipulated?
Yes, Galway pro choice had prior knowledge, because they knew.. What’s your point?

And Vincent.. Who cares how many were at a counter protest? There’s been 2 referendums – the majority voted to keep the suicide clause and these decisions are legally binding (despite the fact governments have failed to legislate).
The numbers at a protest have no legal parity whatsoever..

According to Broadsheet.ie they were talking to several people in the crowd who were paid to come over from the states. This issue is no longer between the people of this country. When you have to get individuals from across the pond to fight your battle then you know you’re on the losing side.

100% agree David. Same issue arises with the issue of same sex marriage. People are well withen their right to hold beliefs or have faith in a particular religion but don’t force that on the rest of us.

Looks like the emptied the nursing homes for the Anti-Abortion march.

you obviously didn’t look at all the pictures kevin!!! get the facts before you post kevin!

Well said David. None of these people are pro life, they are anti life! They couldn’t give a crap what happens to the mother, or what happens to the child once it’s born seemingly.

exactly you are entitled to your beliefs but you are not entitled to unilaterally make decisions for everyone else based on your personal beliefs.

Yes we are. Why aren’t you allowed to go down the shops and buy a sliced pan and a bag of crack?

What has buying drugs got to do with enforcing religious beliefs. Your comparison is lame at best. Some shops I’m sure you could buy a bag of crack.

Why do you say it’s all about religious beliefs? I know because its a sad sad little crutch you hold.

All of the main organizers are part of religious affiliated organizations like the Iona institute so it’s actually fact.

When will abortion save a woman’s life ? Never, it just kills a baby. All of the pro abort obstetricians (they refused to hear the rest ) that spoke at the oireactais hearings had to admit that they never had a case where abortion would have been necessary and that all the life saving treatments that are used to save a mothers life like delivering early in the case of pre eclampsia are available here. So stop scaremongering and pretending that you are interested in saving women when you goal is to kill babies.

Conditions that might lead to ending a pregnancy to save a woman’s life include severe infections, heart failure and severe cases of preeclampsia. The main problem is that they only do an abortion if the woman is actually on the verge of death. If the pregnancy is detrimental to a woman’s health they wont abort and they will refer her to the UK to do it there. Hopefully you will never be in that position but if you are remember your own words!! The anti choice crowd are only goal is to make women 2nd class citizens and see them dead at the expense of a fetus and most times an unviable fetus. Having abortion doesnt make is compulsary to have one. People wont be actively recruiting people to have an abortion!! the purpose to protect womens health. If it comes down to it the mothers life should be saved at all cost.

They don’t want to live in a country that legslises a form of murder. You wouldn’t want to live here if certain forms of rape were legal, would you?

I wouldn’t want to live here if Ireland only allowed one type of coke based beverage Risteard.

What’s that got to do with anything?

It’s not murder though. Why to anti-choicers keep going on about murder? The mind boggles.

It is murder. You’re killing an innocent life.

Noonan. You have issues if coke beverages gets you uppidy.

Exactly its not murder. And by the way your rape comment makes no sense, even if abortion was legalised doctors arent going to be stalking the halls of hospitals forcibly performing abortions on women are they? Its not the same thing

The protest is about laws, not doctors actions. The comment stands and is sound!

@ Risteard – Equating abortion with rape? That’s a new low. You must have one hell of a sick mind.

It’s not murder, just like cracking open an egg for a fry is not animal cruelty.

An egg isn’t fertilized. I didn’t equate the two. I was simply making the point these people don’t agree with legalized murder in any form like the consensus doesn’t agree with legal rape in any form.

Good grief, it’s not murder. *rubs temples*

And just like any other anti-abortionist, don’t let the facts get in the way; there is a chance that half the eggs you have had in your life (if you like free range) have been fertilised; unless you buy the production line eggs, which are not. They use a method of isolating the hens from roosters and forcing them to produce eggs only the way they want them. Sort of like this march, but for chickens.

Im ignoring no facts. I’ve worked in the fowel industry so i understand how it works. Besides, animals of different species kill eachother all the time. That’s nature. Animals don’t tend to kill their own species as a whole though. So you’re not comparing like with like.

Rísteard Ó Muineacháin,

GFY.

Compelling argument Mark.

Rísteard, other species kill their own all the time.

Yeah, some species eat their own young in times of stress.. Great example..

Not on purpose. Most animals fight for dominance and terrority but happily let the loser of the bout run away.

I don’t want to live in a country because I would be unable to terminate a pregnancy after bring raped. Not the you give a toss about that of course.

Yes, Tara. That’s how society works. If you’re against murder, don’t murder anyone. Simples! Oh wait..,,

Er, Risteard – I refer you to the animal kingdom.
In times of stress (similar to those a human woman would seek out abortion for) an animal can either willfully miscarry or they will give birth and eat their young.

For some animals if their young get the scent of another mammal on them, the mother will eat them (case in point – if a human handles baby hamsters, mommy hamster will quite frequently eat her young).

So me thinks you are mistaken, about quite a lot actually.. And while we speak of laws, the Irish people have indicated not just once but twice that we wish to have the suicide clause remain in the constitution. The majority supports abortion in these limited circumstances – that is quite literally official, you don’t get a more legally binding poll result than a democratic vote.

Also funny seeing as the book it is quoted from has got to be one of the bloodiest books ever written. And most of the killing comes from the main character who is supposed to be the “good” guy.

Makes you wonder if Satan is misunderstood. Victors always rewrite history after all

Couldn’t agree more! Religious nuts and deranged all 25k of them. They’re a scary bunch who would have us all giving birth to incest/rape conceived babies in fields whilst saying 50 Hail Marys for our sins. Thank god we live in a democratic society where sane and balanced views are predominant.

You are wrong and you did not have the courage to put your face on your Post! Keep hiding!!!

That’s my real name, Dermot. I have nothing to hide.

Dermot, you keep telling people they are wrong, or what they say is not true. Yet you offer no argument yourself. You might be taken seriously if you actually have an opinion or something to say.

Wait Dermot gets the bible, then you will get an argument from him.

Well think about it, the god of the bible admits that he created evil, he’s responsible for wiping out the entire population of the planet bar Noah and his entourage, not to mention the first born of Egypt, and many, many more..

Satan shows up and offers fruit that grants Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil, curing them of their ignorance..

You may have a point..
Certainly in the Sumerian version of the story (which predates the Torah by a considerable amount) the Serpent character is considered the good guy..

Abortion is no cure for suicide! Fact.

Unwanted pregnancy can cause suicidal intentions which can bring to a suicide. Fact! (I find this way of stating facts as shown by anti-choice people is very effective and is especially good for proving them, like Fact!) :)

@ Dermot,

The Irish population voted twice that it is, fact. Also I wouldn’t go shouting about things that are so called “facts” unless you can prove them. Although religious folk such as yourself do tend to do that a lot.

That’s not your photograph. Take courage reveal yourself

Is that your photograph?

Yes Dermot,it is. I am in fact a dog. A dog smoking a pipe.

shane, you just made me laugh, nice work dude!!

Well done, Shane- and Jason!- for standing up to Dermot and his outdated views! People like him make me so angry- shouting others down on the Internet when we’re as entitled to our views as he is, and when he has no evidence that we’re wrong, especially as, as was pointed out, the religion the anti-abortion crowd are following is extremely doubtful in morals, respect, and of course love. I believe the life that is already here is of far more concern and respect than a mere foetus in a womb, and if a woman feels that strongly about not wanting a child, how will she want it, or feel any differently, just because it’s here? And Dermot, why does it bother you about what photo Shane is using- he’s giving his views just like everyone else, isn’t he? What has he got to be afraid of- he clearly just likes his dog!!

Class Shane.

It is sad. He was out the ludicrous rally for the Quinn dynasty recently too.

Yea whats Mickey Harte’s agenda. Stick to your football man !!!

Mickey Harte lost all my respect by going to Cavan and showing support for Sean Quinn. This has just added to growing distaste for the man.

So just because he’s a football manager he’s not entitled to go on a march and express an opinion?

He certainly is Gavin, as I am perfectly entitled to disagree with him and criticise him for it.

That’s my point. We are all entitled to express an opinion regardless of whether we are a public figure or not. All the people on here saying he is a disgrace and to shut up. Are they not expressing an opinion? They all feel entitled to express theirs but he should keep quiet apparently. Strange opinion from an apparently liberal and tolerant group.

I’m not saying he’s a disgrace Gavin. I’m from Tyrone and he has nothing but my utmost respect in many ways. But I disagree strongly with his opinion and it is very disappointing to me that he has allied himself with a movement that does not support the woman’s right to choose.

PD: are you really surprised that a high ranking member of the GAA fraternity are staunchly pro-catholic. Really? I don’t mind him going and speaking at these events at all, no more than I mind Mexican footballers regularly attend pro-catholic/anti-women events. Completely disagree with everything he has supported over the last year, but unlike the marchers, I let everyone make their own conscious decisions and never make it for him.

Look. I’m an atheist since I was 14 so have zero time for the church and I didn’t know much about him until the tragedy with his daughter but from what I then read about her (being a religion teacher etc) and how she was raised in a very catholic family I’m just surprised to see so many people on here apparently shocked that he has come out against abortion.

Turned into a right rent-a-gob, has Mickey! I wonder how much he was paid, or got in expenses?

Daisy your incredibly ignorant and disrespectful of a man who suffered such a loss.

PD, I don’t see what business it is of yours to decry his basic right to free speech. However it does seem to fit snugly with the idea of enshrining a women’s right to choose negating a child’s right to life.

Someone elsewhere asked what he was before the death of his daughter. To answer this I say he was an equally inspirational man. I didn’t have a clue who the man was before he turned up at my college and gave an excellent speech ~3 years ago.

His daughter having been murdered I’m sure has little if anything to do with his opinions, which he is free to express as he will, and I don’t see what his daughter or the Quinns have to do with anything, or why it has been brought up, other than to distract from the valid points he made.

Why was this Mickey Harte guy given a platform to speak on the abortion debate. He comes from and lives in a jurisdiction that allows abortion in limited form.

By all means he can have an opinion, but he should not be involve in the social politics of this State.

Ah sure Mickey loves an oul rally

He is a citizen of this state u gombeen

Ah Mr Englishby, or munster joinery man, I am not a gombeen, far from it. Mickey Harte is a resident of N.Ireland which when I last looked at the constitution gives him no right to vote in the 26 counties. As such he should keep quite on the subject as should all people not registered to vote in this state whether pro-life or pro-choice. Fool.

Well, Dave – he has put himself out there on a podium speaking in favour of a very emotive issue. My comments have hardly “decried” anything, rather I have expressed disappointment.

I respect Harte’s right to support the anti-choice movement but I am deeply disappointed that a man who has been an inspiration to me for over ten years feels it necessary to join the ultra-conservative, religious preachery that keeps Ireland relegated to the stone age.

And of course the right to choose negates whether a foetus will be brought to term or not! I believe that personhood begins when the mother accepts and CHOOSES to give personhood to the foetus as a child. The denial of choice is a denial of basic human rights and is wholly indicative of the system Ireland has had going since day dot. Religious/male dominance and female subservience.

*of course the right to choose does not negate

Keep your back against the wall and all that eh? ;-)

Love it! And you’d see bigger crowds in Temble Bar.

That’s a fabulous argument, @Mark. Evidence- based and logical. I’m surprised you’re not a barrister!!!!!!!!

Errrrr that was a joke btw, you know based on what Bean Ui whatsit & her buddies think…..

Yes – and none of those things puts women’s lives in danger.. Yes – lets keep pretending this happens and sending women overseas rather than dealing with it ourselves.. Oh – and ignore the democratic will of the people!
These people have no respect for anything, never mind women..

A being?? You are talking complete rubbish, this is one of the safest countries in the world to have a baby , stop making up lies and trying to scaremonger women because you want to murder a baby for convenience.

You speak with such malice when talking about a child. You seem misled by those who put it to you that those defending the rights of a child are somehow taking away your rights as a person. I find it troubling how such reasonable people can be so mistaken about something so seemingly obvious.

Yes, because saving the life of a dying woman by terminating a pregnancy is just “for convenience”. We’re not talking about free-for-all abortion without any legitimate cause for one. We’re talking about saving lives so that the woman can go on to have more children, and be alive to take care of them.

Dave: It is taking my right to adequate healthcare when faced with a life-threatening situation. It is taking away my right to control my own body. If I was in that situation, where I would die due to pregnancy complications, then I would certainly demand a termination. That way I could become healthy again and still have a chance at starting a family and producing more life. It seems to me that so many who are adamant that the lives of unborn children are protected don’t care about the living, breathing woman who is capable of making her own decisions.

You’re incredible naive if you believe those railing this agenda are calling for abortion only in cases where there is ‘legitimate cause’.

‘Free-for-all abortion’ is exactly what’s being called for, I’m surprised you didn’t know this.

http://www.claredaly.ie/united-left-alliance-statement/

@Mairead – your language is frightfully violent and cutting. Being emotive in such an aggressive way is disconcerting and your point is lost. You have accused Nia of ‘making up lies and trying to scaremonger women because you (she) want(s) to murder a baby for convenience’. This is entirely unreasonable.
Ireland is ‘safe’ when a woman has a very straight forward pregnancy. To bandy about such falsities is frankly, annoying. Ireland has been permitted to go on as it has due to our proximity to the UK.
There is much more to this debate than simply pro-choice or life. Nothing is ever that black and white and we need to grow up as a society and start taking responsibility for our citizens. A law passed in the 1800s about intravenous abortion should have been reviewed a long time ago, again geography has aided us, as a society, from having conversations we’d rather not have.

Mairead, yet again you have your facts all wrong.. Seriously, Youth Defence and the Life institute are a poor point of reference.

Ireland isn’t one of the safest places to have a child, the only reason we appear that way is because we don’t keep proper records..
The latest figures (using the same criteria as the countries we measure ourselves against) puts us at the average part of the spectrum.

The safest place in the world to have a baby is Sweden, with one of the most liberal abortion “on demand” services in the world..

Thank you Shanti, I’d like to read about these figures for future conversations. If you have a link, please share.

Clare Daly might be calling for it Dave. That does not mean that everyone is.

Yeah, it’s such irony, ‘Love Them Both’- if they cared about the woman at all they wouldn’t force her to have a child she clearly didn’t want, and when it’d be HER who’d be left with it, not anyone else! Forcing women to be stuck with unwanted children, and putting a foetus’ rights before hers, isn’t exactly loving them both, is it?

It was all over Irish news sources toward the end of November – I would go find you the link but I would be afraid I’d lose your comment to reply to in amongst all these!!

When will abortion save a woman’s life ? Never, it just kills a baby. All of the pro abort obstetricians (they refused to hear the rest ) that spoke at the oireactais hearings had to admit that they never had a case where abortion would have been necessary and that all the life saving treatments that are used to save a mothers life like delivering early in the case of pre eclampsia are available here. So stop scaremongering and pretending that you are interested in saving women when you goal is to kill babies.

They can march, they can squawk about it at church, they can do what ever they like.

Legislation is coming no matter how many holy rollers crawl out from under the pulpit. The Catholics church no longer gets to make our decisions for us.

I do hope they all had a wonderful time and I wish them all the best in their endeavors, but lets face it, it might now be best for them to tell their story walking, perhaps visit some developing economies where the folks are poor and ignorant and ripe for the picking and allow people here in Ireland to get back to the business of minding their own business where such matters are concerned.

Ireland is no longer populated by poor and ignorant genuflecting supplicants.

That’s a fair point point, Ireland will quite possible be there in 30 years, hopefully not, but quite possibly. But that’s the point exactly! This step by the Government, made in gravest error will lead to a more permissive legislative environment and a cheapening of the value of human life. If and when this new legislation is passed, the likes of Claire Daly will still be railing for abortion on demand, which I suspect, or at least hope the vast majority of Irish people vehemently oppose.

I put it those who will listen, if/when X is legislated for, a campaign to repeal the 8th Amendment will begin in earnest! Any other proponent of X who says otherwise is a liar. This is not conjecture, it comes straight from the horses mouth

Those supporting X on the grounds of kindness and compassion do so mistakenly. Nothing could be less kind, nothing less compassionate, for children or for women.

http://www.claredaly.ie/united-left-alliance-statement/

If we have a referendum on whether to uphold or repeal the 8th amendment, and the people repeal it, will that be enough for you?

Because the anti choice side got two referendums to try and remove the suicide clause from the constitution and on neither occasion could they muster sufficient numbers to overturn the X Case ruling. We are still waiting on legislation to give effect to these two referendums..

So why shouldn’t we revisit the 8th amendment? It was 30 years ago.. Perhaps it’s high time we did. After all, in 1992 we voted to keep suicide, and in 2002 we confirmed that decision and granted the right to travel and information, which would indicate that perhaps the electorate are becoming more pro choice..

If it turns out that they are, will you accept that? Or will you keep demanding referendums over and over?

Dave, you have missed the last poll I think. 29% of the Irish population will be rallying with her, which far exceeds the population objecting any abortion and agreeing to let women die (think 8%). The middle ground, i.e., the remaining people, also want abortion for nonviable fetuses, for rape, etc. So, one-third of the Irish population, i.e., 29%, already support a liberal abortion regime. You are late with your worries, because your nightmare of letting women decide for themselves is already knocking at your door.

Why shouldn’t there be “abortion on demand”? Who are we to tell women what to do with their pregnancies? None of the reasons for abortion are easy, but all are valid.

We should stop calling it “abortion on demand” too. It’s a just medical procedure. You wouldn’t go looking for a “hip replacement on demand” or “getting your tonsils out on demand”.

@Ciara- absolutely. Look at China. Very happy to promote abortion. And it’s such good news for women. Oh wait….Maybe we could be more like the UK where 1 in5 healthy pregnancies are aborted? Wouldn’t that make us a much better Ireland?

@Shanti- and if the people said no to Abortion on demand? You’d respect that? Yeah, right…

@conor- if you think “I just can’t be arsed having a baby right now” is a legitimate reason you’re sick.

Vincent Dolan, do not try too hard. The Chinese policy is a right one because otherwise its population would be 2 billion now. Would you feed them? They recognized they were unable to support such a huge population and hence stopped its growth. They are already on the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe with millions of hungry people and no air to breathe as a result of industrial growth to support the population growth. UK is also happy with its policy. So what are you unhappy about if they are happy with it? You and the people who support you are short-sighted and you never see the problems on this planet because you are too busy looking at the sky trying to see god and heaven and forget that you are still living on this planet with its real problems, such as environmental problems, lack of food for millions of people, disease, child (real children) death from malnutrition, etc.

@ciara- what is it with you pro-abortionists that you’re so fixated with God? Personally, I don’t have a religious bone in my body.

No Vincent, but you do get overly precious about a group of stem cells, and you seem to have a compulsive need to judge and control women..
You can’t blame someone for getting the impression you may be religious..

I think if you were there, you’d have seen lots of women “of child-bearing age”…. But of course, you don’t want to acknowledge that anyone except elderly priests might be pro-life
#delusional

The wrong gender…. That’s a sexist remark from a narrow blinkered mind if i ever heard one.

Mr. Richardson,
I didn’t think we would ever have similar views on something….but it seems we have

I was there… Women of childbearing years were vastly underrepresented.
There were many older people, many people wearing religious garb, a small number of families with children, and a large number of fresh-faced young people, the majority of whom were wearing steward’s hi-vis vests.

The latter, many with American accents, were the ones charged with controlling the message, especially the visual message, by confiscating all non-conforming signs & symbols, by tightly controlling the entry of people into the area to be photographed & by ensuring the media would not be mixing with or have the opportunity to talk to the ordinary folk attending.

Peter you are a man duh.

la la la laaaaaa said the pro lifers as they fail to see past their own noses.
They feel bad about it and fail to understand that it is
Not
Up
To
Them

By that logic you shouldn’t have an opinion on the matter either as you’ll never be giving birth.

Sad when celebs use their fame? To push their views,

# shay o reilly, your right Mickey Harte again using his “public status” to promote his views. If he wants to attend these rallys because these are his views he should stay in the crowd and stay quite. He is deliberitaly using his fame to promote what he believes and expects his supporters/fans to follow suit. He was at the quinn rally now this Oprah is hoping he’ll travel to America to support Lance Armstrong.

They used imported money to bus people up. Stands to reason they’d use imported speakers.

so abortion is like raping children?

They claim to be standing up for the rights of children. However they said nothing about their clerics raping children for years. I guess once you’re out of the womb you’re on your own.

Aon Duine, again you’re making sweeping statements about religion & prolife people. Lots of people are pro-life & non-religious; but I understand that it’s easier for you to dismiss these arguments by painting them as illogical or religious or whatever, regardless of the facts of the matter.

And as a pro-life person I completely abhor any form of child abuse… I find it really offensive that you would imply otherwise.

I’m making a point about the hypocrisy of religious anti-choice protesters (and the majority are anti-choice for religious reasons) who have no problem protesting about abortion, but won’t dare speak out against those priests who abuse children.

Aon Duine, anyone I know who is religious & prolife is as shocked as you or I about clerical child abuse.

Unfortunately, the abortion issue seems to be the only one where if you hold particular views (ie against abortion), people who know very little about you start to imply that you “don’t care” about any other social or human rights issues. Nothing could be further from the truth, and the majority of prolife people I know are involved in other charities helping people who have been born too.

It’s a red herring, not an argument, and seems to indicate that you have run out of real arguments.

Here, here.!!

Damned anti-choice people talk about saving a life!

If my partner was pregnant and having complications where it was get rid of the baby or die… Well sorry to say I’d rather have my partner well and safe and we can always try again!

I make anal sex reference and now I hate women? This is for another day so I’ll be brief. It’s a valid form of sexual intercourse and if people think it’s taboo, that’s their problem. Believe what you want about me but I treat the women in my life with nothing but respect and hold them in high regard.

And you’re right, Levonorgestrel can stop implataton, which occurs on day 7 but it’s primary mechanism is to work by stopping fertilisation

http://www.rxlist.com/plan-b-drug/medication-guide.htm

that should say “one reference”

@ Kelly Jordan-Davis, what an articulate, rational and well informed post. Actual facts, reality and reason. Risteard’s reply was feeble and lame. It goes to show that the more extremist pro-lifers can only proclaim that babies and children are being murdered, no other logic.

It demonstrates a warped view of the foetus and of women to consider that both are equal.

I can make one confident prediction. Offer any man a choice between his personal survival and the survival of a foetus and you will find not a single pro-life male willing to be sacrificed. It is so easy of them to demand that sacrifice of women, knowing full well that a man will never face that situation.

It should be a woman’s choice. A foetus is not a baby or a child, innocent or otherwise.

They don’t. They care nothing to actual living beings, particularly women.

Savita was an Indian women with a Hindu faith, asking for an abortion. Do you really think anyone at the march saw her as a peer of theirs?

Youth Defence and their ilk want rid of any mention of her, and definitely do not see her as just a woman like any of them.

@ Sean O’Sullivan, that is a humane, wise and insightful point.

Well said Peter. It’s ludicrous that women are forced to live their lives by what a bunch of old men in stupid hats say, just because they think there’s a magic man in the sky.

You’re right. Those women should be prosecuted by the DPP. I will support you in your quest to bring them all to justice.

@ Risteard O’Muineachain, I have no doubt at all that you would see them prosecuted and sentenced to the maximum. I read some of your drivel about women and anal intercourse.

Many supporters of pro-life are influenced by religious dogma. Others are driven my misogyny.

You will have to reconcile in early course to the laws changing and to a less misogynistic legal environment.

@peter- would you ever grow a pair and reference me at the beginning of your comments. I understand your argument isn’t strong enough to tackle me head on, it just looks cowardly to be sneaking comments in further down the thread. You come across as a keyboard cowboy. I promise to go easy on you.

@ Vincent Dolan, I was not addressing my points to you, merely exhibiting your misrepresentation of the facts as an example. This comment is addressed at you. You made no substantive argument, presented no contention and did not engage with any of the points. Why should I engage with you?

Are you carrying a Hurley stick by any chance?

Well said Peter!

Why to demonstrate Elaine? The government is bound by the European Court of Human rights to take the X case into account. The only way not to is to have another referendum. According to all polls, somewhere between 60-85% of people support the legislation for the x case, so any attempt to remove it will be defeated. They can bring out the whole 8% of people in this country into streets who oppose any legislation, it still will not change anything because the majority support it. People are wiser than supporting death penalties for pregnant women who find themselves in hospitals due to pregnancy-related complications.

Then let’s have another Referendum! The Supreme Court ruling in the X Case was wrong! It did not have proper medical advice! Shame on the Supreme Court! There are no recorded cases in history where an abortion is a cure for suicide! The wording of the Referendum in 1982 was incorrect as evidenced by the disclosure of the then Attorney General to the then FF Taoiseach Charles Haughty under the 30 year disclosure rule who advised FF that the wording they were putting to the electorate was not correct and was open to challenge. The AG was correct.
The only sensible decision for the Government is to have another Referendum. This time get the wording right and have a proper EXPERT group to advise correct wording to protect the life of the mother if her life is at medical risk! . It is vitally important that the life of the mother is saved but if possible the medical profession should try to save the life of the child as well if medically possible. fG should honour its pre-election commitment- otherwise it will NEVER be trusted again. FG is at the cross roads.

Exactly- that’s what I was saying- maybe I didn’t make myself clear. The pro-choicers aren’t out protesting because the government has already agreed to legislate for x.
Personally I’d like them to go further but I think it’s a good first step towards recognising abortion is necessary.

Stop arguing about suicide and abortion you eedjit Dermot
It is an aside
Whether you like it or not – Abortion is here, you need only get on a plane and avail of abortion services.
You can pretend like you and your religous zealots can make a difference by your views but you have not. All you are doing is making yourself look foolish

@ Logikos, profound and enlightened as well as fair.

Be surprised if there was anyone left in certain parts of the sticks, all bussed up to the capital for the day, with the american religious right footing the bill of course..

@Peter I think people have the right to be opposed to abortion without being called “fundamentalist”