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ZERO AND LOW hour contracts have come into the spotlight recently after Dunnes Stores workers held a strike that highlighted the contracts as one of their concerns.
Zero hour contracts require staff to be available for set hours each week, but with no guarantee they will get any specific amount of work.
SIPTU says the contracts are significant contributors to ‘in-work poverty’.
Young Workers Network carried out a survey on zero hour contracts last month which found that 89% of under 35s struggle to make ends meet.
The group was set up by SIPTU activists but is made up of members from various unions and young people who aren’t yet members of trade unions but are interested in workers rights.
The Working Hours and Pay Survey of 100 people also found that 21% of respondents felt their job could end at any time and 20% said their employer gives them less than one day’s notice of their working hours.
A Young Workers Network activist, Dan O’Neill, told TheJournal.ie, that he was shocked by the ‘sheer depth of sectors’ that use the contracts:
Retailers, restaurants, home help and some academia teaching assistants said the profession was now unprofessionalised.
So exactly what companies are using zero hour contracts?
JD Wetherspoon’s confirmed that it uses zero hour contracts in Ireland. Spokesperson Eddie Gershon told TheJournal.ie:
Wetherspoon does operate flexible contracts for its hourly paid staff. The company operates in a seasonal sector and offers flexible hours to meet demand.
McDonald’s, Cineworld and Domino’s are other large companies that use the contracts in Britain.
All three were contacted by TheJournal.ie yesterday and asked if they used zero hour contracts – but none have yet responded.
A protest was held outside McDonald’s and un-unionised workplaces on O’Connell Street yesterday evening against low pay and zero hour contracts.
O’Neill explained that the protest was supporting the thousands of fast food workers on strike for better pay across America.
America is the home of commerce and capitalism and if workers there can win wage increases it would send strong message to these companies.
What’s being done?
A study into zero and low hour contracts being used in Ireland was announced last year by employment Minister Ged Nash. It will look at the impact they have on workers.
However, Sinn Féin has criticised the delay in the study and called for an immediate ban on zero hour contracts. Its spokesperson for Jobs Peadar Tóibín, said:
Widespread low paid work and the prevalence of low and zero hour contracts undermines Ireland’s recovery, adds an additional expenditure burden on the state, and impacts negatively on tax revenue.
He added that, “The Dunnes Stores dispute brings to the fore the inadequacy of existing legislation to protect vulnerable workers.”
Tanaiste Joan Burton said, “What’s at issue in the Dunnes Stores dispute is quite a number of workers having very low levels of contract hours and having no predictability in relation to their income or indeed in relation to their hours of work.
“The government has said that we propose to legislate in the forthcoming bill on collective bargaining and in addition that will have a strong anti-victimisation clause.”
As it stands under Irish regulations, employees are only entitled to be paid for 25% of their contracted hours each week if they work less than that minimum amount.
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I work for Dublin City Council and they have used zero hour contracts for years. It’s extremely difficult to improve any part of your life when after 10 years working somewhere you’re still on a zero hour contract and called “a permanent relief worker”. With no guarantee of hours or income, loans are almost impossible and trying to rent somewhere is out of the question, not because people won’t allow you to rent off them, but simply because there’s no guarantee that you have enough hours in the working week ahead to feed yourself and afford rent. A massive overhaul has to be made to this system.
Niall is so right I know a a 40 year old in dunnes 15 hour’s a week not by choice that’s what they offered her on minimum wage can’t sign on for jobseekers as she’s not available for work as she’s bought in for 3 hrs everyday
The problem is that the big labour unions are part of the establishment, they have directorships and of course the “Partnerships”. The Unions have lost their way, the Labour party is still a big player in the larger unions,there is an example of a conflict of interest.
The unions must reclaim their independence and start to represent their members using democratic means.
I’m in the same boat as you Niall, working for the council 7 years now and still no sign of getting a full time contract. Something seriously needs to be done to rectify this issue. It’s demoralising to see people I know plan their future,settle down,buy a house,get married and have kids… I can’t do any of that, I am unable to plan for my future because as a “permanent relief” I’ve no guarantee of what hours I get or how much income I earn. The government or the council need to do something about these types of contracts because it’s already got out of hand.
is this an agreement with employers and social welfare that the zero hour contract must be worked over five days so as not to qualify for any payment by the dept of social.welfare..people on these zero contracts are expected to work a back month before any wages are paid..it dose not matter how a person is to live pay bus fares food or anything else..yet GOVERNMENT ministers can claim expenses. and everything else that goes with it EMPLOYERS are paid for every person they take on.these are not proper jobs .but a show by the government that they are tackling the unemployment programme..it is nothing short og scab labour..the trade unions should hold their heads in shame
The chef industry in Dublin is now at a dangerous stage.the amount of people serving your lunch with no hygiene training is scary.major hotel groups pay normal rates on Christmas Day as in €8:50 per hour and keep their workers on till 11:00 Christmas night. For what I seen you are taken on as a mop pusher with no English .next week your cooking and serving lunch…. This has been totally overlooked .people are happy once you keep lunch under a tenner.enjoy
Minimum wage is €8.65, not €8.50, and legally people have to get paid extra for working bank holidays.
I think you understood what FORK ment.
Let’s be clear on a few things here. This is not all about students. The world doesn’t revolve around students. It’s fine for students to work zero hour contracts for a few quid going to collage. The problem is that these contracts are replacing permanent employment.
It is not fine for students to get zero pay hour contracts “for a few quid to go to college”, nobody should be on these contracts. What idea of college students do you have, exactly? That we’re popping off to school everyday and just need a few euro for some sweets in the shop on the way home? College students are paying a living just like everyone else. Even if you’re lucky to have parents who pay the fees, there are still massive costs for a college student. Food, living, rent, supplies etc all don’t just appear out of thin air.
I completely agree Dylan. I was merely responding to some comments where some were saying that while students, these contracts suited them.
I agree there should be no place for these contracts. I have no issue with flexible hours. That is different. There must be a guarenteed minimum.
The pub equivalent of McCafe uses them? I’m shocked!
Do people care they demanded cheap off brand booze and a curry meal deals… Costs have to come down somewhere.
You forgot to mention the government. 25% of newly qualified teachers are on the government equivalent of a zero hour contracts. I had an interview last summer which at least 30 people showed up to for a 2 hour teaching contract..I would have 2 hours teaching but I would need to be in every day for the full school day ‘in case there was other hours available’, it made me sick to see Joan Burton our ‘standing in solidarity’ with the Dunnes workers when they wont even treat the countries teachers any better.
Before anyone says it, there is no such thing as a permanent teaching position anymore the closest you will get is CID which is vastly different, young teachers are treated no better than the Dunnes staff when it comes to contracts. Why do people stand up for one and yet give out about the other wanting the same thing ?
This is being portrayed as if it came as a surprise that these contracts existed? Most part time contracts are zero hour contracts. You sign it when you start, it’s not as if this is a shock or people have been blindsided. I agree with the dunnes workers that they shouldn’t exist or that you should have an entitlement to a minimum amount of hours. Having said that, the likes of those who need to work around a college timetable can’t demand 20 hours a week and also demand not to work during the day or some evenings etc. There is a balance that needs to be struck here. At the end of the day the employers have a business to run just as much as employees have bills to pay.
But it’s not just students. People are trying to support families on these contracts.
The problem Rachel is that employers can use these zero hour contracts as a mechanism to effectively bring peoples salaries back under the minimum wage. Walmart and McD’s in the US are good examples to see where this ends up.
Rachel, it was indeed all students twenty years ago. Times have changed and people are now relying on these jobs as adults.
Guys I understand that but again at the end of the day the employer has a business to run as much as families need to be supported. The reality of it is that these people knew what kind of a contract they signed into, and my thinking on it would be that any job is better than none at all. This isn’t as though these companies have changed contracts without first consulting their employees. The reality of it is that they were handed a contract, the same way I was, and they signed it, same as I did. As I said I do agree that minimum hours need to be agreed upon, but there is a place for low hour contracts for those who do need to pick and choose their hours, be it to work around childcare, college or otherwise. I did say something needed to be done, I just don’t understand why it comes as such a surprise to most people that these contracts exist, considering most minimum wage retail/pub/restaurant part time jobs work under the premise that you are hours as assigned, and so not technically entitled to any hours at all. I’m sorry if I offend people here, I did spend four years in a zero hour contract myself in retail. But you can’t go demanding your hours when you yourself signed the contract in the first place
For some people they have no other choice but to sign the contract as they may have been searching for a job for quite a time, desperate to make ends meet, signing it does not make it OK on the employers half, it’ as completely exploiting those who are in need of a job, just like that Job bridge scheme, what hope have people got it in this country
Am I not making myself clear here? I’ve said twice now that I agree that these contracts shouldn’t be in place, and instead to favour low hour contracts for those who need to work around whatever other priorities they have. What I don’t get is why it’s such a surprise. This is going on in most shops and bars, in the public sector and the private. This shouldn’t come as a shock to people and yet it does. I also said that signing a zero hour contract is better than no contract at all. Which is true whatever way you look at it. The fact that they exist in most places doesn’t make their existence ok, but it does make a point that if they are everywhere that they are obviously needed as a cost effective means of employment. As I also have already said three times, I don’t agree with all contracts being zero hour or hours as assigned, I do think that there is a place for them and there is a balance that needs to be reached between employer and employee. The original statement I made was simply to do with why it came as such a shock to people that these exist, and why it’s only now, and only dunnes who are saying anything about it. Again, a balance needs to be reached.
A balance does need to be reached, for those who do require flexible or low hour contracts but unfortunately employers are abusing it so there is no balance and many companies are only offering them because they can get away with it
It’s all well and good to say employers need flexibility with staff but why use such unfair practice. Dunnes could have x staff all on 0 hour contracts working 3 hours a day meaning they don’t qualify for any form of assistance as if you work so much as an hour on any given day you cannot claim relief. Why can’t these employers work rotas a little better with x staff being permanent and the rest on longer hours across 2_3 days allowing them to have second jobs or claim assistance. It’s a disgrace and can be done correctly when I was in college I worked for centra who took the time to sit with all of us students understand our schedules and work with us to keep shop covered and us earning plus meeting college obligations. That’s how it should be done
Back in the time when unions stood up for workers this practice was known as casual labour and resisted , people were brought in at peak times or during strikes to work or to stop overtime payments to full time workers , employers have normalised this with these zero hour contracts .
For those lucky enough to enjoy full time hours don’t feel so secure, even if your job requires a degree or a certain skill set there is always someone as qualified as you looking for work ,ready to work for less ,employers look to make cost savings all the time, wages pensions , health insurance perks are a cost ,zero hour contracts lower all these costs .
Wow what a revealing article. the headline seeks to tell us what companies in Ireland use zero hour contracts yet can only tell us about one company Wetherspoons and speculated on another 3 companies mentioning a completely different jurisdiction. What a revelation.
Universal Basic Income and the problem goes away.
A UBI is exactly what is needed. I have to shake my head when I hear the government promise full employment by 2018. If their idea of “full employment” is getting everyone on zero-hour contracts, then I suppose they are heading in the right direction.
http://www.basicincomeireland.com/
I don’t understand the issue here. Jobs that require skills that are difficult to acquire will enjoy greater job-security, pension and perks. Jobs that are unskilled and routine, that in the not-too-distant future would probably be automated, don’t warrant the expense of providing the same degree of security.
Essentially, there should be a direct correlation between the effort and skill required to do a job and the reward offered.
Those unskilled zero-hour jobs still serve a purpose by providing a wage to those who need it, and I would hazard a guess that many companies would rather close down than getting rid of them. It’s far too high a price to pay for services that could be as well provided by school kids needing extra pocket-money.
Unskilled jobs like airline pilots.
One particular airline in Ireland has over half their pilots on zero hour contracts.
“Essentially, there should be a direct correlation between the effort and skill required to do a job and the reward offered.”
When I was in college I paid my way by lugging boxes around a warehouse. It may not have been highly skilled, but it sure as hell required effort.
Hard work deserves respect; these contracts devalue an honest day’s work, regardless of the field.
Brian, I’d remind you that the people who jog around outside your house in all weathers at four in the morning collecting your stinking household waste, are unskilled workers. And that if they every all chose to become skilled, we’d be rightly bandjaxed.
*ever
@ Brian. You seem to use the word “jobs” as a synonym for people. You see, unskilled jobs are often done by unskilled people. Unskilled people with children to feed and send to school to gain skills. Do we want a society where one impoverished generation after the other produces yet another generation that serve you you skinny flat but can’t afford one themselves? A living wage for a days work. Not asking for a Ferrari and three annual holidays. Just food on the table in a warm house, food in the kids’s bellies and clothes on their backs going to school.
Neal, mine was not a criticism of unskilled workers. My point is that if an employer wishes to take on staff on zero-hour it’s because they need flexibility of manpower. The people who take up these contracts are aware of this when they sign.
If zero-hour contracts were banned many companies would close and far more jobs would be lost.
No. Their profits would fall but trust me they would survive
I don’t think you’d hear is many “mom and pop” shops using zero hour contracts, it’s primarily a tool used by corporations
The issue here is that people aren’t willing to see both sides. Yes incomes need to be made, and yes a lot of unskilled jobs are very labor intensive. But Brian is right in a way. It’s just as unfair spending 4-5 years doing a degree and then being told you’re as equal to someone who has not. I’m going to be hung out to dry for this. But it’s true! I spent four years in a zero hour contract in Xtravision busting my ass to put myself through college, and now that I am qualified and working, I would honestly be upset if someone tried to tell me that my old job was worth as much as my current one. It’s all about balance, and that balance won’t be stuck until people are willing to see both sides.
And what do you do there Brian that has you so superior? Anyone willing to go out there and make a living themselves ratheter than spend their lives on benefits should be given some sort of security regardless of their job position and skills
This shouldn’t have to do with status or degrees, you seem to missing the point, someone with a degree will tend to get a better paid job anyways maybe with more perks etc. That’s not to say the person who has no degree doesn’t deserve to have a minimum amount of hours, if you’re that educated Rachel you should know that it’s the least a working person deserves and why would you begrudge it for someone? It’s not like you have to be worried about them reducing your hours or taking your position in work, its just giving someone a bit of security.
Not only that, there are many many people out there who didn’t have college degrees and had brilliant jobs for years and had great security but many companies have gone into liquidation etc. that’s not to say the employees are any less important to you. Degrees are required these days for jobs that you could just be trained in to do before without having to go to college, so it definitely does not mean you are superior or more important than another hard grafter
They sure do Tom, also I know a security company that will text 8 people to be in at 6am and the first 6 to arrive have work for the day, the other two head home and make it in early next time. Low cost low T&C’s
Ruth I’m not missing your point and I’m not begrudging anyone job security, as I said I was a zero hour contract worker. These places can ‘guarantee’ permanent work and promise everything under the sun, and as you said yourself there’s no guarantee they will remain in business. They’re covering themselves as much as their employees are. In order for them to continue employing people AT ALL, they need to work in as cost effective a manner as is possible. If you can get permanent work great, but it just can’t be promised a lot of the time.
And there is no need for you to begrudge me my education. I worked hard for it, I worked myself to the bone to pay for it myself. And to be honest I believe that there is no way you can say that because I now have my degree that I’m not entitled to more as a result. The problem with this country and its current society is that everyone feels ‘entitled’ to everything anyone else has, not taking into account how hard others have worked to get where they are. And I really don’t think that’s right
Actually I’m just finishing my degree as a mature student with a child, trust me I know the hard work just as much if not more than you that has to go into getting through college while paying bills and also raising a child.
That does not mean I feel superior but more understanding of peoples struggling situations. Were you assuming that I felt entitled, weln sorry that is not the case.
Just because I’m getting myself through college does not mean college is for everyone or that everyone has the chance to go. But I know plenty of people out there who unbelievable workers with great jobs and never went to college and are quite happy, they are just as “entitled” to perks too.
As I said, many companies are abusing the system, if you don’t see that you’re very naiive
Also why do assume someone is begrudging of your education, if anything your begrudging of people who don’t have a degree, a bit of snobbery there, a degree doesn’t make someone more entitled. I decided to go back to college to pursue something that interested me and yes of course to get a job I enjoy, does not mean I would begrudge the person next to me without a degree of getting a secure well paid job once they are good workers, everyone needs some sort of security no matter what job they are in. There are enough people out there who couldn’t be bothered ever working, and if zero contract hours are being offered, it doesn’t exactly encourage people to bother looking.
Hard workers are in every area of employment not just because they have a degree.
Ruth you have just proved my point. You can’t say that because you have a child and went to college as a mature student that you are any more entitled or worked any harder than I did, you don’t know me or my circumstances.
On that note very well done for going back to do something you love, it is very admirable and if I’m honest I’m a little jealous you had the time to settle on your choice of course.
I am not begrudging anyone of anything, and I am no snob nor am I naive. Again you are making presumptuous statements without anything to back you up. Had you actually read any comment I made here you would see that I haven’t said anything to put anyone else down or begrudge anyone of anything. I worked hard for what I have, so forgive me if I feel like my current job has more worth than my previous minimum wage job. I do believe that everyone should have some sort of stability in their working life. But by the same extension I also believe that employers should be allowed some leeway also.
I have already said I agree with why they’re protesting, so I don’t get why you’re fighting me so much on it. But I believe in fairness, and like everything else I feel like the argument here has become one sided, because employers are unable to give their side to the media. So calm down, I am on your side. But just as employees should have stability, employers need to be able to make money. If they don’t, there will be no jobs at all, so as I said it’s a balance that’s needed.
But you assumed I was begrudging you of your education when in fact it was so far from the truth. My point is degreed or work status shouldn’t come into this at all.
Of course companied and businesses need to keep afloat but as I said, many are just abusing it and it’s insulting to the general workers out there.
We’re not the only ones to work hard and get degrees, but a degree for some doesn’t secure a job.
I agree there needs to be a balance across the board but at the moment there is not enough put into place to protect workers
And of course to you your previous job isn’t as worthy as what you have now and I’m sure I’ll feel the same about mime, but that job that someone else has now might be very worthy to the next person so shouldn’t be belittled, anyone willing to put in hard good work deserves some protection and a sense of security
May leave it at that so since I’m clearly not getting my point across and am allegedly a snob for wanting the best for myself and not settling.
No point in me wasting my time trying to get you to understand I agree with you, but I don’t agree with a one sided argument. It’s like talking to a wall. You’re taking words out of my mouth and presuming that I’m saying that everyone needs a degree and that guarantees jobs when in fact I haven’t even so much as alluded to that. My degree didn’t guarantee me a job, as a matter of fact in my field graduate jobs are hard to come by, not that that matters since I’m a snobby naive little girl with no life experience.
I don’t get why zero hour contracts come as a surprise to people when from an employers point of view it is the most effective means of employment, from their end. I never once said it was fair, I never once said it was right. I personally don’t agree with them and have said that time and time again but you choose not to read comments for what they are and instead taking words out of context and trying to make an argument out of something completely unrelated to the article. Read the comments again for what they are, and stop trying to pull an alternate meaning out of them. I’m agreeing with you, but also with employers, to an extent. And I find it a shame that they get no say. It makes for repetitive news, since the same is going on in many other current debates.
You did imply that someone who has no degree is not equal to you though because you worked 4-5 years for your degree so you are above them.
You also presumed that I begrudged you of education and anyone without a third level education has a sense of entitlement.
I also never said you were personally a snob, I said there was a bit of snobbery.
And I certainly did not call you a little girl who has no life experiences, you just pulled that one out of the air.
I do agree as I said about a balance being needed but I am more on side with the workers as too many big companied that are in no fear of going bust are exploiting it and so some sort of protection is required. There should be mandatory minimum contracts when offering a job. Otherwise its not really a job, its just having someone there you can ring whenever to tell them theres a bit of work if they want it.
Rachel- do you think the government would close down if they ended zero hour contracts?
Do you think some of the big media outlets would close down if they had no zero hour contracts?
Do you think dunnes would close down without zero hour contracts?
Ruth, skilled workers should have more job stability and ‘perks’ than unskilled. You said that yourself so don’t get into me about what I implied. I made no implication. I stated fact there and you agreed. I then agreed with you that we all need job stability, degree or no degree, so that would in a sense put me and my degree on a par with everyone else, so again no implication that I was better than anyone, nor did I belittle anyone. I said I’d be upset if anyone tried to tell me my part time job was the same worth as my current job, again not belittling anyone. Everyone finds different worth in different things. You, however, tried to belittle my education my implying that you worked ‘even harder’ than me(your words not mine) for your degree because you have a child and went back as a mature student, when in fact you have no reason to believe that I sailed through college or that I do not have kids of my own.
You saying my comment contained snobbery implied I was being a snob, which I wasn’t. If it were up to me, college would be free, as I feel an education is something everyone needs and is entitled to. As for my lack of life experience, I was being presumptuous, since we are now into taking words out of each others mouths. You called me naive, because I didn’t agree fully with you.
All the best with the rest of your studies. Please stop trying to put skilled workers on par with unskilled, what is the point in having a degree of it doesn’t better your standing in life?
Obviously not Liam although it would seem you need to read back over my comments and take into consideration the part where I said I disagreed with them having spent four years working under a zero hour contract myself. But there is a place for low hour contracts and it is being taken out of context due to the fact that the companies can’t defend themselves. I’m not saying they should be kept, I’d love to see them abolished in favour of low hour contracts where needed. But I would also like to see the false sense of entitlement abolished in this country. This is a two way street
Are you writing a book Rachel?
Trudy I may as well be at this stage! Hahaha!
When did I say that? I never used the word skilled, I said hard workers, correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure there is a big difference.
And are you seriously trying to say I belittled your education, I think its quite clear you’re here belittling those without. You brought the fact you have a degree into this article as if its above any other workers.
And if I assumed wrong about you having kids then sorry and fair play getting through college with them as I know how tough it is.
This article has nothing to do with being skilled or unskilled.
Ruth I don’t have children but I don’t understand how it makes any difference. Well how is it that you can sit and say that you ‘probably worked harder than me’ and then in your next comment say you didn’t belittle me? How can you say that you’ve worked harder than anyone? How does having kids make it harder for you? It was your choice to have kids and return to college. I may not have kids and I was blessed enough to get to college straight after school, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t have my own set of circumstances which made my college life more complex than the norm. You can’t make that call, just like I can’t say I’m better than anyone for going to college. But my degree does put me above the unskilled in my field of work, it would be stupid to state otherwise.
This has gone on such a tangent it’s ridiculous. Degree or no degree, it’s irrelevant. The topic was zero hour contracts. And just because I am sympathetic to the other untold side, I am being lambasted by people for having a very slightly differing opinion. It shows how close minded people are. There are two sides to this. I worked a zero hour contract, I know how it feels, you might too. But I also have seen employers struggle to pay people because of minimum hour contracts. Take a walk in the other persons shoes before you go making demands for the struggling employees
Nope, never belittled you at all. I just stated it is hard to go back when you have a kid so I can understand also that you worked hard for your degree too after you tried to imply I had a sense of entitlement.
Your higher up in a field yes if you’re skilled, not above someone.
Everyone has circumstances and things going on their lives and their own struggles through college.
I’m sorry I just don’t agree that hard workers should be offered zero hour contracts just because they don’t have a degree.
There are so many people out there like I said who have brilliant secure jobs without a skill or degree, you throwing a degree around to prove a point is ridiculous and completely off course of this article, having a degree doesnt make an argument for you or this article.
I’m sure your proud of having one and you should be as I will be too, but not use it as an argument.
Rachel I don’t think anyone would complain if low hour contracts were the norm – you sign up for 15 hours a week, you expect to work 15 hours a week. Not a zero hour contract where you have absolutely no idea what you’ll be working day to day, you can’t take on another job in case it clashes, you can’t plan anything, you’re completely at the whim of the employer.
People aren’t surprised or outraged at low hour contracts, the attention this is getting is because the hard workers at Dunnes decided to take a stand and so it’s in the public domain, the media are reporting on it. Before the Dunnes strike I’m sure the majority of people would have been aware of zero hour contracts.
In an earlier comment you said you’d be insulted (or something to that effect) if you were told that your old job at Xtravision was worth the same as your current job. What did you mean? In terms of money, status, what? Be realistic. Someone working retail at Xtravision will never earn the same amount of money as someone who is a qualified engineer for example. Does that mean the Xtravision worker shouldn’t be given some security? Does that mean that it doesn’t matter what kind of contract they’re on, sure that’s only a job for students? No.
Again, no issue whatsoever with low hour contracts. In retail and hospitality especially, low hour/flexi contracts are an absolute necessity for businesses to run. But they can run on them, and stop the zero hour contracts. Zero hour basically holds the employee to ransom. “You must be available for 30 hours a week – we won’t tell you what 30 hours, we won’t even guarantee you’ll work 30 hours – but if you are not available you will be fired”. If a business cannot run on minimum hour/flexi contracts then they are not a viable business. End of.
Well said John! So many people think its all down to a degree or skill that should only earn respect in a workplace, so many hard workers out there with no education and many of them work so much harder.
Evert worker counts, a business does not function without the employees that they have, those employees deserve stability in their jobs.
Bringing skill and degrees into this article is a cheap way of putting across an argument that has no real basis as to what this article is about.
Wow Ruth. Once again twisting it to benefit yourself, nice one. You didn’t say it was hard to go back with kids, which yes it is. You said you ‘probably worked harder than me’ which you cant guarantee as you’ve no idea what I did or how I got on in college.
I’m sorry if you think I’m this little brat who is here to throw my degree around. It wasn’t the intention. Again (for the millionth time), I’ve been there. I did the zero hour thing, it was awful. I disagree with it. I also agree with dunnes workers petitioning for better conditions and security, I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said that. I know men and women with families dependant on their zero hour contracts that bust their asses as much as I did.
I also know business owners who do not know what their takings will be week to week and have no choice but to employ people on an hours as assigned basis, as they simply do not know how many hours they will be able to pay themselves, let alone employees on a week to week basis. That’s where the animosity is. I have also agreed with multiple people here that there are bigger businesses exploiting such contracts but at the end of the day, businesses are in business to make profits, just as workers are there to make a wage.
And for the record I brought up having a degree in the first place because Brian(I think it was I could be wrong) had mentioned that qualified people are within rights to better security etc etc in their jobs. After having worked in a zero hour contract as an unskilled worker and also in a secure job, I do have an element of agreement with this. My old job worked on performance, so the better you worked, the more you worked. While I don’t agree with giving the lazy person no hours, from a business perspective you can’t fault that thinking. And you can’t help but feel that after having worked so hard you should have more. That goes for everyone, degree or no degree, though I’m still shocked I still have to mention that. The harder you work, the more you achieve, and as it should be. I have unqualified relatives making more than me because they worked damn hard and I’m proud to say I know them. Im not trying to put people down here
Again I’m sorry if i offended anyone, particularly Ruth since this is now going on all day. I didn’t throw my degree around. I mentioned it as an anecdote as someone who had gone through the zero hour contract and come out the other side with a secure job. Relatives have done the same without college, I mentioned the degree as an example of the work I have put in, but hard work doesn’t always mean college. You blew it out of the water, but I am sorry if that’s how it came across as it wasn’t the intention.
I didn’t say I probably worked harder than you and never said you were a spoilt brat.
I just don’t agree with some of the things you were saying or implying about skilled vs unskilled workers.
Your last comment is prob the best argument you’ve had, and you didn’t offend me in any way, it just seemed you feel that workers out there who also help to keep a business going aren’t worthy to have some sort of security because they’re not skilled, maybe that’s not what you meant but its certainly how it came across, and there are too many businesses exploiting workers because they are getting away with it.
A person who owns a business also has a responsibility towards the staff they hire, if they cut back on staff numbers, they could afford to employ good workers for more contracted hours. If their business is that bad that they cannot even do that, maybe its time to move on. But i have huge doubts that the majority of businesses using these types of contracts are small businesses but more the big ones with no fear of financial difficultly
Rachel, a degree (in a relevant field for the job being done!) is great. But, so is experience. In the 4 years you spent getting a degree (and please know I am a huge advocate for higher education), someone has spent 4 years learning the business and that is just as important. Now obviously I’m not talking about a surgeon/medical proffesional or barrister etc but in the world of finance/insurance and many other professions, experience can equate to a degree.
Zero hours contracts cannot give long term stability, they are a part of the race to the bottom. And be under no illusion, large globals are quite happy to sub contract out to India/Philipines etc and then the higher skilled, degree required jobs are every bit as disposable as zero hour contracts.
Jeanette you definitely explained that way better than me about experience etc. And also that having a degree or skill does not make you immune to not having a secure job.
Not only that, there are so many jobs nowadays that require a degree that didn’t years ago and to be fair, sometimes learning by doing and getting experience is much more valuable than a piece of paper, for certain jobs of course.
Like I said I’m also nearly finished my degree and can’t wait to do so because it’s in a field that I enjoy, butvi know it does make my me or my employment above others
You can’t have a unlimited supply of cheap labour and expect good working conditions.
Its called supply and demand.
If business could not get staff in order to make money they would
soon change the conditions.
But they can get staff easy.
If you cant get staff from ireland
Jusy get them from the eu
If not from there get them from anywhere in the world.
The business model for ibec and sme is chaege 1st world prices and pay third world wages.
Miniature food now miniature hours
There’s a big difference between unskilled labor and service workers…
Service workers are the face of your company. In many cases your customers can get the exact same ‘product’ elsewhere, often for cheaper (unless you’re the very bottom rung in your industry).
If you hire the cheapest possible people, turnover staff monthly and treat them like shite… It shows and it will loose you business.
On principle i will never knowingly give any business that has a zero hours policy my custom.
Rachel, there are a few places all right that require flexitime staff, but some that these paces have upto 80-90% staff on zero hour contracts as a power play. In my own experience though, it is smaller companies trying to survive the recession where you do would expect to see this.
However, the trend is that most smaller businesses are treating their staff better regarding hours and contracts, than medium to large companies (exception Pharma, Med device, big Tech). The directors of which just want larger payouts at the end of the year with no consideration for those making them the money.
The Recession argument doesn’t cut it either. The Govt is not helping by giving money hand-over-fist to companies, at €10,000 a pop (via the Eures and JobsPlus schemes) to hire a person, who is supposed to be fulltime, yet ends up on a zero hour contract. Many employers WHO CAN WELL AFFORD TO PAY (check duedil.com to find out a companies financial state if unsure) are hiring people, claiming Govt allowances and only offering hours up to value of that scheme over the year.
I see this everyday, where they need two full-time people, but instead hire 3 – 4 staff on zero hour contracts, divvy up the hours, and ensure no one gets more than €10,000 that year.
The employee then must claim further financial support from Social Welfare through no fault of their own. They struggles with mortgages, food and bills and now faced with potentially hundreds in water bills in the years to come.
The business can have a large portion of their workforces operate this way. Even where there is no financial need for this, just that the system allows them to do so, and as a well of keeping their employees in check.
You’d be sick of seeing comments about water protests being on the dole, or scroungers, when it’s these companies, that account for huge part of the Social Welfare Budget financed by the taxpayer by the way, that are the biggest welfare scroungers. And the owners driving around the country in new Audis and Land Rovers demanding with all vote Fine Gael because “the economy is booming” (for them!)
If this practice carries on the effect will be felt everywhere. If people can’t earn enough to shop around the town other workers don’t earn and therefore spread the money around. Coffee shops retail units Etc will all see less trade and more job losses leading to another economic meltdown. Corporate greed is not good and they are swapping short term gains for long term misery
I’m the same as Niall White is. Working over 6 years with Dublin City council on this zero-hours contract!! Basically it’s just not a job. You can’t build your life around this job as “Relief Attendant”. We are just living with a hope that the Dublin City Council will convert this contract into a full time Contract!! It’s really hard when you don’t know your rooster and you just suddenly get a phone call to turn up into work in that minute! Standby for work! We get no respect or any appreciation whatsoever involve!
People, Dunnes do not have zero hour contracts. The have one which is a minimum 15 hour week. This was what the staff negotiated in the last strike and also what they sign z contract for when accepting s job offer!! Can someone please report the facts!
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