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Updated: 10 September
LAST WEEK’S ANNOUNCEMENT of Judge Mary Laffoy as chair of the upcoming Citizen’s Assembly has put abortion close to the top of the news agenda once again.
And on Thursday, Newstalk’s Pat Kenny Show hosted a debate between pro-choice Senator Ivana Bacik and the Pro-Life Campaign’s Cora Sherlock.
The two got into a heated dispute when Sherlock accused Bacik of supporting abortion up to birth, and claimed:
There are many jurisdictions which allow abortion up to birth.
Bacik rejected this, and told Sherlock to “Stop lying”.
So who’s right on this particular issue?
(Remember, if you hear an argument about facts over the airwaves, email factcheck@thejournal.ie or tweet @TJ_FactCheck).
Claim: There are many places in the world where abortion up to birth is legal.
Verdict: TRUE
What was said:
During the course of the debate about the Citizen’s Assembly, which you can listen to here, Sherlock accused Bacik of supporting abortion up to birth, something the Labour Senator strongly denied.
Ivana Bacik: No, of course I don’t. Nobody does. That’s utter nonsense…I support the sort of sensible time limits that you have in every other European jurisdiction.
Cora Sherlock: But you know, there are many jurisdictions which allow abortion up to birth, so do you support that?
IB: No there aren’t, Cora. You know it, and I know it…No Cora, there aren’t. Just stop lying.
Guest host Jonathan Healy pressed Sherlock on which countries allowed abortion up to birth, and this exchange ensued:
CS: I don’t have the list of countries, here, where that happens.
IB: No of course you don’t, because it just doesn’t happen.
The truth is that there are countries in the world, most of them in Europe, where abortion is legal up to birth, and the practice does happen, albeit relatively rarely.
In response to a request for evidence, Cora Sherlock provided third-party sources supporting the claim in the case of 12 countries.
In the course of researching this FactCheck, we found 54 jurisdictions in 22 countries, although there are likely to be more than that, and this list is not intended to be exhaustive.
Furthermore, the fact that abortion until birth is legal in a particular jurisdiction does not necessarily mean it is readily available to women.
Notably, abortion up to birth is legal in some of the world’s most populous nations – China, the USA, and Russia, albeit under specific, exceptional circumstances in the case of Russia and the US.
If you want the short-hand version of this FactCheck, you’ll find it in the two charts below.
If you want details and sources, read on.
Ireland
Great Britain (England, Wales, Scotland)
France
Netherlands
Belgium
Sweden
Portugal
Denmark
Austria
Switzerland
Russia
Bosnia & Herzegovina
Serbia
Macedonia
USA
Canada
Australia
Abortion is not governed by national law, but rather by the states
New South Wales
South Australia
Victoria
Australian Capital Territory (ACT)
Queensland
New Zealand
China
Singapore
Vietnam
South Africa
Without getting into semantics over the definition of the word “many”, it is clear from the context of the debate that Cora Sherlock was pointing out that there are several places, some of them in Europe, where abortion up to birth is legal, in an effort to encourage Ivana Bacik to define a gestational age limit she would support.
This claim is TRUE. In 27 out of 54 jurisdictions discovered by FactCheck, abortion at any stage is legal only to protect the life or health of a woman.
Sherlock’s subsidiary claim, that Bacik supports or has supported the legalisation of abortion up to birth, is FALSE.
Bacik herself rejects this firmly, although in response to a query from FactCheck, she did not precisely stipulate a gestational age limit that she would support.
However, she did articulate a positive view of the 1974 US Supreme Court decision in Roe v Wade, which – as she said during last week’s debate – ruled that: “In the third trimester, the right to life of the foetus prevails”.
And also during that debate, she stated:
Viability [of the foetus], at the end of the second trimester, is generally, internationally, in most sensible, compassionate jurisdictions, the cut-off point.And that, I think, is a sensible approach which we should adopt.
This strongly suggests support for a legal limit at the point of 24 weeks, with viability (the ability of the foetus to survive outside the womb, including with artificial assistance) as an important factor.
Update: This article has been updated to include Ireland among those countries where abortion is legal at any stage in a pregnancy, albeit under strictly limited circumstances.
This is consistent with the criteria applied in the inclusion of certain other countries.
The charts have also been updated to reflect this addition, and we have added the fact that in half of the jurisdictions studied, abortion is legal any stage only to protect the life or health of a woman.
Send your FactCheck requests to factcheck@thejournal.ie
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