Gavin and Sinead discuss what happens when a totemic leader reaches the end.

Should they be kept close to the team, or even be given a bespoke role like Johnny Sexton? Or is a clean break as in the case of Liverpool and Jurgen Klopp or Bill Shankly preferable?

Could Sexton be inhibiting the next wave of Irish out-halves, in the same manner that Alex Ferguson’s lingering presence at Old Trafford weighed heavily on successive managers?

Or is it totally different for a player, and would Ireland be mad not to keep Sexon’s rugby brain in house?

The pair debate the merits and otherwise of a dominant, era-defining character having a say in the next era. And they wonder what a young Sexton would say if faced with a similar set of circumstances when it was time for him to make the Ireland 10 jersey his own.