don’t know …but article 9.3 makes big fat political pensions of those who voted for the bank guarantee illegal … methinks …as it blew Article 5 to shreds !

No but I suppose it could be argued that if a mother had to take extra work and could prove in court that her duties in the home have suffered as a direct result of her having to take that work, which she only took as a direct result of austerity measures then I suppose there could be a case to have a court order for more money in child benefit, or another form of social welfare payment to be payed to the mother to the same value of the money from the extra work, however apart from proving her duties in the home have suffered she would have to prove that she took the extra work for economic necessity,which would have to be interpreted by the court. Which I assume would only accept the argument that it was necessary to take the extra work to literally keep the roof over the family’s head. So I suppose the short answer is there is an argument to be made, but a weak one, that would require a lot of proof. But I do need to stress on a more general note that there is a better alternative to austerity , it’s called stimulating the economy to grow, and a fundamental part of that is leaving people with some money in there pockets so they can spend it and grow the economy :)

Let us not forget that back in the early 2000’s our good friend Charlie McCreavy introduced the tax credits system which in one sweep forced many mothers or fathers to leave the family home and join the labour force. Not being sexist but I’m sure their are some women who would liked to have remained at home rearing their children. This is just an observation not a judgement so go easy with the red thumbs.

Yeah me too….just to make sure he has whatever he needs when he gets home after a hard days work. Beer- ice cold, extra spicy curry, x-box set up, kids in bed, house pristine, all done in my suspenders and heels.

Sigh. Now it’s never gonna happen.

And where men’s rights such as fathers rights can be decided upon by women. So much for equality eh?

Shouldn’t you be in bed in preparation for 6am mass Stephen?

Actually Stephen our network “Men in Childcare” were asked to participate but were unable to go because of prior commitments. The group this weekend were quite anxious to have a male perspective to allow gender balance.

I’m gob smacked!! I can not think of another modern country, western country that has this ? any one know of one.
By the way womens right have mostly been decided by men, rem; the church ? Ireland really needs to start again.

Who knows but More than likely, there not trying to change it for nothing…
All these little adjustment to our constitution… “to backward little Ireland ” to take it out of the “dark ages” really….
Just wait, it’s in the future we will realise what we had and what some are so eager to give up or change in the name of “equality” or “modernising” what’s wrong with that article, it’s not doing any harm..

Bridget, it is harmful because it doesn’t grant the fathers the same rights and promotes outdated traditional gender stereotypes.. The constitution should recognise all parents equally.

Yea but Mick I am sure it’s not that they want to include the father, it’s that they want to stop paying out so much to lone mothers, make them work and stick the kids in day care

Sorry, No its not harmful..How is being a “stay at home mum” outdated ??

hi Sinead, they do actually want to bring in the recognition of both parents as opposed to just mothers. i was asked to be part of the panel tomorrow to represent a males perspective but couldn’t make it.
Bridget, by out dated i mean that dads should also have the same rights and families be allowed to choose what’s right for them rather than the state say it’s the mothers role.

True Mick… if they just added the words Father, Carer or Parent but my fear is they want to take away the constatutinal right of children to be cared for in their own home by a loving parent( mum or dad).. Just chipping away at the important things

Bridget. i hope not as parents are recognised as the primary carer / educator of their child. If they do want to warp it like that or make any change it would have to be voted on in a referendum. any erosion of parents rights would not get a yes vote.

Well said Tom. The constitution at the moment protects women and elevates them, not puts them down.

Exactly..

Stephen, as an actual woman, I am quite happy to point out that this Constitution does NOT elevate or protect me. It insults and demeans me and says that I am basically only fit for child rearing and home duties in the eyes of the state, so much that it’s unconstitutional for me to be elsewhere, working. You don’t speak for me, or the hundreds of other women who find this Constitution equally outdated.

Yes because forcing a woman to do something against her will like the commys do is a great idea isn’t it? What if she is a lone parent? Must she work and be forced to put her kids in a crèche with strangers?

Stephen the problem is doesn’t recognise a dads right to do so either. in modern times the state need to recognise both parents rights to be equally involved in their children’s lives. ps people that work in childcare are not called “strangers” we’re called “childhood professionals” and provide early years care and education not babysitting or being a substitute parent.

My wife is a homeschooler. And yes you are strangers Mick. we don’t wanna put our kids with people we don’t know mick. You can call yourself a professional all you want but your still a stranger and a mother is a greater professional than anyone in knowing how to love and take care of her child. Nor do we want our kids forced into school because my wife is not allowed to stay at home and forced out to work . This is not a forward modern step. Changing this would result in. Backward step in society. This is about destroying the role of mother and father in children’s lives by the liberals. Get the women out to work and drop their kids into a crèche to be brought up by strangers with different beliefs and principles and destroying that nurturing role given to a mother by the natural law, that’s what this is all about. It’s a vicious communist step backwards Mick. Thank you for your kind reply by the way.

Hi Stephen, I totally respect your point of view regarding home schooling as a very close friend of mine (who works in the childcare profession) home schools all his children and they are having a fantastic education. The problem with the constitution is that it is promoting outdated gendered stereotypes when it only mentions mothers. I’m a dad of 3 and would love to have my rights recognised under the constitution as my wife done now. This discussion is about recognising both parents equally not taking rights away. Regarding your comments and language about childcare professional- I find it offensive, fine if you don’t personally agree that it meets your families needs, I respect that and applaud that you are doing what is right for your kids but there are lots of very dedicated and fantastic professionals working in childcare in Ireland and the way you refer to them is disrespectful.

Do you mean my reference to them as strangers? But they are strangers, I don’t know them. As I said before they can call themselves professionals but it does not change the fact that I do not know them nor want my kids to be brought up and educated by people I don’t know with different beliefs and principles that contradict what I teach in the household. The mother is the primary nurturer and carer of the children. Men and women have their respective roles and that is what equality is. Taking those roles away from them and somehow recognising a fathers right to usurp the mothers role as primary nurturer of the children is actually a recipe for inequality.

I don’t know how you find my comments offensive because that is not the intention of my comments. The purpose of my comments is not to give offence but to point out an obvious truth about the liberal crèche system. I wouldn’t hand my kids over to the public school system or any crèche for anything in the world.

Stephen — You sound like a crazy fundamentalist.

Stephen, apart from childbirth and breast feeding, i carry out the same role as my wife. attaching roles or attributes to genders is narrow minded and propagates out dated gender stereotypes.

@ Keith Wizzey – the comment that you left for Stephen is disgusting. Given the statics there is a very real chance that someday, someone you love, will be told they have cancer and that comment will come back to haunt you and when it does, stop and think of Stephen.

*statistics”

A child needs a father and a Mother Mick. Both father and Mother unless out of neccesity who usurp each others roles around the household cause confusion as to who is who and that is somnething a child does not need.

I understand the need to recognize fathers rights. I am all for that but there is certainly no need to amend or change this article that elevates woman to her appropriate and primary position in the househhold. men and women who seek to amend this article are promoting inequality.

Stephen, I have to say I feel quite worried for your kids. It’s healthy for them to be in school socialising with other children. It’s not healthy for them to be brainwashed into outdated gender stereotypes. Who on earth are you to tell me what my role is as a female in a family? Your views are fairly disgusting and sexist.

Stephen, it doesn’t cause confusion, it shows children that both parents are equally competent and active in their children’s lives. The modern parenting is the traditional one. Contrary to popular belief, the father who takes on a serious share of childcare and housework is not a new invention. Before the industrial revolution – a mere couple of hundred years ago – most men were stay-at-home fathers, skilled at comforting wailing babes and bathing squirming toddlers. Why get caught up in a narrow view of what parenting is? Outside of western culture the Aka Pygmies. Living in the jungles of the western Congo basin, Aka men are the world’s most dedicated dads. For 47% of each day they are either holding their children or are within arm’s reach of them. It’s the Aka man who will calm his crying infant in the night and actively involve in their child’s lives. When Europeans first arrived in Tahiti in the 18th century, they found that women could become chiefs while men routinely cooked and looked after children. In around one in four traditional cultures studied by anthropologists, men have played a major parental role. So there’s no “confusion” to be had by parents taking equal responsibility for their children. It’s up to us as parents to show children that regardless of gender we’re equally competent in the matter of raising children.