The Euro Group isn’t backtracking one inch, Shayne. The heart of the matter remains the same. The EU will put up €10b if Cyprus raises €6b of its own. They just don’t care where it comes from. If anything, given that it looks inevitable that anyone with deposits less than €100k will not have deposits raided, the final deal will be closer to what the EU wanted in the first place than the deal rejected by the Cypriot parliament.

@Shayne Read the quote in the article and you will have your answer: “while respecting the parameters defined earlier by the eurogroup”.

Absolutely nothing has changed in their expectations, they are still ready to discuss a plan, but based on the same conditions as last weekend.

Great read on what happened in the meeting…http://t.co/dEQhXd03mS

Kevin, or Mr Dolan, so saying take it or leave it and then allowing them to come up with a different way to reach targets is not budging one inch!
Telling them ELA would be withdrawn Tuesday and then reversing that decision to the following Tuesday is not budging one inch!
Do you really believe the rubbish you come out with or just crave attention..

A good read, Shayne. Ugly stuff. What it doesn’t cover is that Cyprus has been playing hard ball for 18 months now, trying to play the EU off against the Russians. They were, of course entitled to defend their citizens and try to secure the best possible deal but it backfired badly on them. Patience was always going to run out.

The new plan, seems quite different to me. http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_21/03/2013_489267

Shayne- see the bit earlier on when I said the EU hasn’t backtracked, they’ll pay €10b, Cyprus will have to pay €6b and the EU doesn’t care how they do it? Well that article does seem to suggest that….the EU hasn’t backtracked. they’re going to put in €10b, Cyprus is going to put in €6b- they’re finding the only a different way but then, as I said…..THE EU DOESN’T CARE HOW THEY DO IT. Honestly. I don’t know how to say it any simpler? Should I use sock puppets to explain it to you? The left hand could be Cyprus handing €6bn over the the right hand which would have a blue glove puppet on it with little yellow stars all over it. How about employing the medium of contemporary dance to explain it? Maybe I could email you a PowerPoint presentation using only small words? How about a formula? EU10+Cyprus6=Bailout. ? Any clearer?

We are witnessing the beginning of the end of the Euro; too many presidents not enough democracy!
Ah well now we can get around to running our country again!

Brilliant.

@ Dermot.
I red thumbed in error… “green to ya “

You cut me deep, Declan.

Oh ffs….there’s a thread somewhere about ducks, tip on over and try squeeze sf in somewhere.

Was the world really that terrible for the millions of years before the formation of the EU ?

So Kevin, tell us how you feel about Sinn Fein, Don’t hold back now.

Mike- if I was running low on ink cartridges, I’d give them a shout. Otherwise, I think they’re best left alone.

Government stooges jumping onto any story about Cyprus spewing their propaganda bile. A sure sign of panic.

Hi JP. The EU is a follow on from the ECSC, formed in the early 50s.
To answer your question (selectively), Europe was pretty horrific for the hundred years previous… Crimean War, Prussian War & the two World Wars.

Kevin…or whatever name you go by this week…What’s your opinion on voyager 1 and do you think it has passed out of our solar system or do you think sinn fein sinn feined the sinn fein and sinn fein across the sinn fein and the cosmos so sinn fein sinn fein sinn..fein?

What have the (treaty of) Romans ever done for us?

Dermot,everybody knows it was “the shinners” that programmed Voyger… Isn’t that right Vincent… Ooops sorry,I meant Kevin.

Well to be fair, Mike the Shinners do have a certain expertise when it comes to working out the trajectory of things launched by rockets. Voyager would have been child’s play for them.

Kevin/Vincent your apparant glee at the crisis in cyprus is actually sickening…to use it to score cheap points against your political opposition sums up the person you really are….we can all put forward political arguements based on our thinking but to get off on peoples hardships is a dispicable…your life must be really empty

Oh dear, Johnny boy. We don’t like when our mindless rhetoric is exposed for what it is, do we?

what i dont like kevin is watching people suffer…unlike you i dont get off on that sort of thing….these people are human beings and for you to gloat at their situation is stomach churning

again you dont look at the bigger picture…this is unprecidented in economic history and it gives the bigger powers in europe the mandate to do exactly what it likes..one of your main hopes for this country is that we get the troika out and what is now going to happen is the complete opposite

John- you certainly strike me as someone who lies awake at night gently sobbing about all the suffering in the world.

Kevin/vincent/numerous other aliases is what carpenters call – a rounded device attached to doors to facilitate opening and closing.

and by the way if you look closely what your are actually supporting is a socialist soloution to fix a capitalist problem so my rhethoric is a lot closer than yours

No, John. I EXPECT us to get the Troika out. By years end. And we will have gotten them out by sacrifice, restraint and sensible policies. As opposed to the pie in the sky, I wish it were so nonsense espoused by you, many others on here and as it turns out- the Cypriot Government. What you’re seeing in Cyprus this week is the path not taken by Ireland. The path the likes of SF and the loony left would have brought us down. Mercifully, we dodged that bullet.

i dont strike you as anything kevin lets be honest, but as i said last night unlike you and your ilk my yardstick is not the fianna fail party

Dermot- seriously, man. You should be in stage.

There will always be war it’s human nature, is the world really that much more peaceful since the formation of the EU?
I can give you a longer list of wars that have happened since its formation.
What I don’t understand is this notion that there is no life beyond EU membership, That a country will crash and burn without it. Where’s the future in that? How do we have one if that’s the case? We ( and other countries) are in a position now that we will be dictated to and I’m just wondering were it will end.

V Ger !

the exact same has happened again kevin
the banks were playing monopoly and the people will have to pay just like ireland, the debt has been shifted from the private investor to the the people. something which will have dire consequences int the future, we will soon have a continent that are slaves to corporate interests and you think thats the way out of this mess,
my god man! ‘wood from the trees’

@john- to take the gloves off for a second, what I’m saying is this: 1. From the second FF signed the Bank guarantee our fate was sealed. We were broke. We had no leverage whatsoever against an EU that was our only source of finance. 2. Constructive engagement was our only realistic option. You get more bees with honey. To go on the offensive against the EU would have been to bite the hand that feeds you. NOW- SF know this. They also knew its a hard sell to the electorate. And that there are alot of votes in espousing a contradictory plan whereby telling the EU where to get off. Because that’s what we all WANT to do. They also knew that they could never be called on this because realistically they aren’t going to see Government during this crisis. So they’ve lied to people. Preyed on their fears and frustrations and profited electorally from being irresponsible and sowing discontent when unity would have better served the national interest. You think I’m enjoying Cyprus’ fate. I’m not. I am enjoying SF’s fanciful economic strategy being laid bare for all to see, though.

Hi JP; I’m not defending the EU at all. I just answered the questioned posed.
Its initial goals have changed it seems; there isn’t internal wars any more (members still supply troops to fight elsewhere!). But there is definitely a lot of internal suffering as the more dominant countries call the shots.

i dont support sinn fein kevin. i see all the political parties promise the sun moon and stars and it seems to be part of the politic in this country more than anywhere else in the world to promise one thing and do another

@john- the electorate rewards it. FF at 29%. What odds them breaking 30% in this weeks SBP poll? Because they’ve made telling the people what they want to hear an art form.

We should be doing that now instead of being economically raped by fascist Fine Gael

@ Kevin Shaw – I’ve stayed away from commenting on your comments, as I see it as an exercise in futility, it just seems to go round and round on both sides, you and your combatants, and the actual issues take second place to the b*tc*fest that ensues..

But I do have a question for you, it is sincere, and I would very much appreciate it if you showed me respect enough to reply:

I am in no way an FG supporter. I think they’ve done a terrible job in how they have presented themselves to the public that voted them in. But I don’t believe that everything they’ve done is automatically devoid of worth, and it is true that they started from an unenviable position.

I digress. My question’s simple; why in earth do you continue to bait people and drag the debate down to schoolyard levels?

You’re obviously a smart man. You’ve made no bones about being a FG man. But how does the protracted name-calling help you or you party.

And, to be honest, you’re too smart to pull the “I’m speaking at their level line.” God knows I’ve no time for the “deny the facts, keep chanting the mantra” brigade. But I respect anyone who can put a point together and argue it clearly. I don’t have to agree with their point of view and I shouldn’t have to. Freedom of opinion is a great thing, and should be encouraged, but it needs to come with a respect for your opposition.

In short, what’s your angle? I can’t see where the benefit lies for you in keeping up the sneering, under-the-belt punches persona.

kevin
you ridicule sinn fein for preying on the electorates fears and frustrations to profit electorally but isint that exactly how fine gael got into power or am i missing something here

See he hasnt answered, what does that tell us?

Nikolas – I take people as I find them. I’ve read many of your comments also and though Ive disagreed with many of the sentiments expressed, to my recollection we have never crossed swords. We haven’t because your opinions are considered and come from an objective place. That we disagree is incidental. What I cant abide is the unrestrained bias and the frankly scandalous venom spat at this Government at a whim. Listening to good, patriotic people being called fascist or evil or cold hearted or having genuinely honest people being accused of being “corrupt” without one iota of evidence gets more than a little tiresome and as one of the very few pro-Government voices here I have to shout that little bit louder. If I was a party activist, I’d have to tolerate it and exercise discretion. But I’m not, so I don’t. I call it as I see it. These are serious times. All clowns off the stage.

@john- all politicians do, I suppose. But I would suggest to you that irrespective of broken electoral promises, the typical FG voter is getting exactly what they expected from this Government; belt tightening, defence of the middle class. These are FG values. SF are just making it up as they go along, pursuing whatever will get them the next bundle of votes. That’s bad at the best of times but people are genuinely frightened at the moment and SF are feeding that fear. It’s inexcusable.

@ Kevin Shaw – you’re contention that the troika will be gone by the end of the year is somewhat half right. Their “Inspectors” will be here for another ten or twenty years depending on which report you happen to hear !
Just clarifying !
Of course that is assuming the I.M.F. don’t cease to exist between then and now !

kevin
its a bit rich to say your electorial lies are better than another parties, they are still lies and my point was that sinn fein are using the exact same tactics in opposition that fine gael used to convince the people to trust them. in fairness if fine gael had been a bit more honest and straight they still would have been voted in.
I take your point about belt tightening and would have been totally for it myself but defence of the middle class is totally untrue. the middle class in this country are the ones who have suffered most, there the easy target and they have nearly been taxed to oblivion. fine gael have served the higher classes exactly like their predessors did

@mike- absolutely none of the problems you listed there are attributable to FG? None. Cutbacks were inevitable before they took office. There are more coming. We’re losing €12bn a year. Government employees like Gardai, Teachers etc were always going to suffer. Did you really think there was going to be anything other than massive cutbacks? FG’s support, by the way is holding at 25% which is respectable at mid-term, especially given the cutbacks they’ve had to bring in. If the economy turns they’ll bounce to early 30′s at the next election. As for SF, I’ve seen absolutely nothing from them policy or posture wise that would suggest they’re fit to run a town council never mind this Republic.

Kevin ; if I may, we are not loosing 12 bn a year, the government are overspending by 12 bn. a year !