You should send that to your local FG/Labour TD and see what the response is. In other countries where council taxes exist,what you’ve listed plus other services are included in the charge.

If the grounds of the estate you live on are privately owned then the council shouldn’t be involved. Just like how the council isn’t responsible for the upkeep and repairs on a privately owned farm.

Property tax will be abolished in the next election. Fine Gael will be voted out of office.

I agree with John. We own our private lands and many the people who paid high stamp duty costs . We are just bailing out the banks again for reckless lending.

We don’t the others in either, they are just as bad, we need the system changed and less TDs, we have around 166 I believe, we only need about 40 max, 1 per 100,000 people.

Plus we need a 2 term max limit – this big boys club of corruption is not the way to run a country

I agree Paddy. This craic of a lifetime on the Dail gravy train is disgusting. Payment should be the average industrial wage which would attract decent people into the Dail. People with integrity and honesty would be a welcome change. 2 terms is enough for low paid public service as a TD.

This Government are a disgrace .

VAT – payable on net
Capital Gains – payable on net
DIRT – payable on net
Motor Tax – payable on net

Why would this one have been any different? Welcome to the land of double taxation

The opposition are only voting No as they are in opposition not out of any nobel cause like the good of Ireland more the good of their popularity.

We the people lose out no matter what bunch of criminals are in power

Tom, what a ridiculous observation to make. Your party in government are breaking ever promise and commitment they made to their electorate. Your concern is about the opposition gaining votes at your expense, not about how the electorate will cope with the new burden of taxes heaped upon them….

My party? I hadn’t realised I had a party. Nice cheap shot though. What I was saying is the opposition was only making a populous decision. Same would be the case if this government was in opposition. Our politicians only make populous stands especially when in opposition regardless of which party “yours or mine”! It is all rhetoric from them. Our political system is broken yet no one wants to fix it, we just revert to “your party” type comments, as if that helps.

Just like the opposition, i find most voters just disagree with everything the government does as well. We have become a nation of grumblers with “the glass half empty” attitude prevailing. Is there anything to be said for a bit of positivity? We need to raise taxes, we are spending something like €8bn more than we collect as a nation. I agree that the format of the property tax could be much better but, feck it, just get on with it, it is a new tax and will be improved with time. 2013 is just around the corner, it’s about time we as a people, choose life, choose to be happy, choose to be positive. Go to 3rd world countries that are in abject poverty and see how positive the people can be. Looking forward to all the red thumbs from the people I am talking about above, the Joe Duffey brigade!

I would go Sean if i could but with all the extra taxes i have to pay,i can’t afford the airfare.As for being a nation of grumblers,people have the right to be anyway they want to be wether you like or not.

@ Tom.. You don’t know that for sure so you shouldn’t speak on behalf of someone else.. I think most who voted against it were genuine.. There just wasn’t enough of them– No Voters…

@Joan I’m not speaking on behalf of anyone, just expressing my opinion and observations. I have no confidence in any TD to do anything for the country, they look after themselves and talk populous sh1te when it suits them. I guess we voted them in and we deserve what we get, sure all we’ll do next time is vote in the opposition and have the very same problem!

@Sean Spot on.

@Roddie, exactly but ironically we are the people that could change this but we don’t. We prefer to say with civil war politics with a hint of left (which is not really left) thrown in!

And by improved you off course mean increased.

Look Sean I agree it would be better to try and adopt a positive attitude but that can be somewhat tempered when faced with possible eviction, no job prospects, increased taxes, negative equity. The list goes on. We saw how inventive this shower were in the last budget, the poorest in society were hammered yet the richest walk away with smiles on their faces. And this was a ” fair budget”.
Have you ever sat back and asked yourself ” €25 billion in adjustments later and it’s costing more to run the state on an ever dwindling income. 450k out of work, fantasy growth figures and AUSTERITY, the magic cure all. And another €8billion to come. It’s simple, there will be no recovery in the domestic economy as long as people are unable or afraid to spend cash. I want to be positive, I want to wake up believing that the future will be better, but I’m afraid we won’t be steered towards it by this bunch of clowns.

remember their names these bastards will go down in the same pages of history as captain boycott

Sean. It’s a moral compass that is lacking in government. All we hear is that we got ourselves into this mess. Well no, WE didn’t. I don’t mind paying tax, however what I do mind is bureaucrats, bankers and politicians reeling the benefits, when they were the ones who screwed the country. Why is Crumlin hospital forced to raise 8 million to try and stop children having to slop out like a prisoner in mount joy when multiples of that is being spent on the EU presidency which is effectively useless to us?? This is madness. If the government did one simple thing and reform the government to 40 TDs (one per county for small counties and two for larger), reduce TD wages to 1.25 the industrial wage and an extra 10% for the leader, ban the whip system, vouch all expenses and max 2 terms, the country might get behind the government and push along side you. Don’t preach to the people in this country about cheering up when every decision the government in the last 5 years has protected the wealthy and driven ordinary people towards poverty.

25 voted in favour. There’s 33 Labour TDs; the following were absent: Joan Burton, Brendan Howlin, Ruairi Quinn, Pat Rabbitte, Dominic Hannigan, Derek Nolan, Arthur Spring and Anne Ferris.

No party represents anyone but themselves.

Con its not a household tax its a bond holder and bankers tax

No property tax is required. There are alternative avenues such as tax breaks, high earners, salary caps on quangos, dividends tax and so on… The next election will see the abolition of property taxes and FG will suffer heavily. The next government is likely to be FF, SF and Independents.

*not required* – my apologies!

In my case, this I going to cost them a lot more than they get. I’m self employed & there’s loads I could claim for in terms of expenses to reduce my tax liability or VAT reduction.

I’ve let a load of this slide over the years primary ally down to laziness of forgetfulness. From now on though, EVERYTHING is being claimed for.

Enjoy your €180 a year from me guys, by my accountant’s calculations it’s going to cost you approx €500 a year to get it which means an extra €320 a year in my pocket.

For those on PAYE, look for everything you’re entitled to in terms of rebates, bins, medication, rent, trade union fees, he’ll there some industries where you’re allowed a clothing allowance.

It’s your money. Educate yourselves as to your entitlements & get it back.

No, the previous Government were low tax, incompetent regulation, corruption, bubble-boomers, pander to the people. Was totally different. This Government is tasked with the ugly job of fixing a broken nation.

Arb
this government is tasked with carrying out the the dying wishes of the last government, give me one policy that they have introduced or one thing they have rowed back on. Fianna Fail will go down as the party that sold our souls and Fine Gael/Labour will go down as the Party that collected payment for them

I’m reluctant to plug my own website here, but if you go to http://agenda.ie/tv/dail/ and scroll down, there’s a seating chart there. If you hover over each seat you can see who sits there for electronic votes, and you can use that to read the blue image above and see who voted which way.

To be honest, though, it’s pretty straightforward: of all the TDs who showed up, every Fine Gael and Labour TD voted in favour, and every other TD voted against.

@Gavin shows how broken our system is. Party politics is one of the reasons this country is screwed Politicians need to grow a pair and vote for what is right

Or hope so crazy nut does us all a favour and leaves a few sticks of Semtex/TNT under the seats in the dail. There has got to be some crazy person willing the save Ireland from these ignorant parasites and become an instant hero & get a nice statue of him put up outside a pub. Now lets google how to make home made…..

You’re right. You’re not clever.

That’s very clever for a dog.
Who’s a good boy.
WHO’S a good boy!

“Enda Thatcher”

I know it’s considered cool and groovy (or whatever the vernacular is) to compare any politician who seems vaguely right of centre with Thatcher but Kenny is far from being Thatcher. Thatcher would have his sort of politician for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Beileve it or not, the very first amendment was to rename it the “Bondholders’ and Bankers’ Bailout Tax”, an amendment proposed by Richard Boyd Barrett and Joe Higgins. It was ruled out of order.

A similar one from Pearse Doherty, who wanted to call it the “Family Home Tax”, was similarly dismissed.

and here was me thinking the role of opposition was to provide alternatives. These clowns are only able to put forward populist soundbites.

Reminds me of this parody of a P.R. advertisement http://youtu.be/8JPT3feipJ8 :D

Your argument is a bit flawed so if other countries have a tax for breathing does that mean we have to do the same We are taxed to the balls right now in comparison to others

No, not at all, just saying that this tax is not new or unusual. I guess the real issue isn’t just this tax, it’s the other taxes combined together squeezing every last euro out of us. Our tax system is broken :-(

Tom, it’s not a like for like comparison with taxation systems in other countries. The more appropriate term for it would be council taxes but we would need to get services for that which we will never get. Let’s call it what it is..Family Home Tax

Tom
Other countries pay their politicians less.
Other countries do not double tax citizens, VRT on top of VAT, even on life saving devices.
Other countries have free health & dental services.
Other countries have lower rates of income tax.
Other countries have lower rates of VAT.
Other countries have politicians who know what they are doing.
Other countries even have laws that allow a particular proportion of registered voters sign an official petition to force a new election if they are unhappy with the current Government.
Other countries even have heads of Government who engage in public debate on the issues of the day.
We don’t but yet we are expected to more for less.
Well until the Supreme Court order me to pay this property tax Edna (pun intended) and his unelected advisors can FCUK right off. I have even written to the 4 Government TD’s in my constituency and told them the same.

Spare us the populist left-wing bullshit. We’ve been spending vast amounts of money that we don’t have. That’s the simple fact of this matter. The money paid back to banks and bondholders is only part of the problem. That’s what the budget of the last six years have been about.

The simple fact is that property taxes exist in practically every European country and are actually favoured by left-wing parties all over Europe. It is only in Ireland that left-wing parties have managed to twist themselves into an anti-Government logic that would allow them to oppose property taxes.

Nationalisation of oil and gas? And how will you then exploit that resource. It will cost billions in investment. Are you going to put in the billions that it will take to do this and take the risk that vast amounts of your exploration is going to yield nothing. And where exactly are you going to get this money from?
Tax on the billions that flow through the IFSC. And what will you tax when all that money simply reclocates out of the country which it can do at the flick of a switch. And will you be happy to pay the dole of the thousands of people who will be made unemployed when it happens.
Wealth Tax on incomes over €100,000. How much exactly are you going to take from these people? Tell me how many people earn over this amount and how much tax you are going to take from them. I think you’ll find it raises a lot less than you think it will.

By the way, when you get your wish and we have SF in Government, I’ll make a bet here and now that they will suddenly find it impossible to remove the property tax. Any of you who think that any left-wing parties will remove this piece of legislation is seriously living in cloud-cuckoo land.

Red thumb away. I take red thumbs on Journal as a badge of honour given the usual left-wing claptrap that is spouted here.