Ill have 20 “black left lung and pus covered right lung with a black bit at the bottom”

Simon, the simple answer to your points above are YES and not NO. Ask any smoker who has to go outside to smoke when in a pub or restaurant have they cut back and they’ll probably say yes. There are many studies that show a link between the price of cigarettes and the numbers smoked. That is being undermined by smuggling and the prevention of that undermined by the Judiciary who dish out derisory fines instead of jailing those selling smuggled cigarettes.

The ban on packs of tens and single cigarette sales were aimed at stopping children smoking. All these rules and others are to take the glamour from smoking and are aimed at stopping children starting.

http://www.nuigalway.ie/health-promotion/documents/M_Barry/2009_rep_slan_2007_smoking.pdf
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one quote from it
“The success of Ireland’s smoking ban has primarily been in reduced risks
from passive smoking. There is no evidence that Ireland has achieved a
sustained downward trend in overall smoking rates.”

the stats prove different and there is no real downward trend in smokers

Your quote does not claim any link between the number of people smoking and the smoking ban. Nor did I. I said it reduces the number of cigarettes smoked.

Furthermore, there has been an increase in young females smoking, not a cohort who spend a lot of time in bars. It could be that there is an increase overall in smokers because of the increase in females smoking but a decrease in those who smoke in bars. Therefore the smoking ban could have still brought a reduction in the numbers who would now be smoking. Several people I know have given up smoking and said that the smoking ban was the reason.

Finally the smoking ban was not brought in to reduce the number of smokers. It was brought in to reduce the deleterious effect of smoke on those working in bars & restaurants. As your quote says, that worked.

Genius..!

Very true, but smokers average age at death is much greater than the average of smokers who die younger.

f**k….. Very true, but non-smokers average age at death is much greater than the average of smokers who die younger.

What about a seriously obese naked person on the box of every snackbox and burger wrapper while we are at it.

snack boxes cause nudity?!

@Sandra – Ha ha Brilliant!

Smoking causes harm to everyone around the person who does it. Nothing worse than walking down the street and someone is blowing cigarette smoke into your face. It’s very rare you walk doesn’t he street and someone tries to shotgun a bottle of vodka down your neck or a burger in your mouth

Michael, which do you think is more dangerous for children, to be disturbed by an image of a diseased lung or living in a house where their parents smoke?

Michael, I’m sure we would ban cigarettes if we thought that would work but it probably wouldn’t.

I have been to Switzerland a number of times and it’s disgusting having to sit in a smoky pub. However smoking in pubs etc is banned in many cantons, just not all.

What do you think of this Swiss doctor’s comment below?

Speaking before the vote, Jean-Charles Rielle, a doctor and member of the committee behind the proposal, told AFP news agency …. “In the cantons where these laws [banning smoking rooms] are already in effect, we saw immediately… a 20% drop in hospitalisation due to cardiovascular incidents, heart attacks and these kinds of problems,” he said.

I find it hard to believe that after introducing a ban on smoking in bars that there was an immediate 20% drop in hospitalisation for cardiovascular incidents and heart attacks. specially when the person who says has vested interests. ( a doctor and pro anti smoker). He makes it sound like they were turning a tap off. Maybe some proper independent statistics from hospitals admissions would be better.

Doctors are not normally known as liars are they? He was referring to Swiss cantons and he’s a Swiss doctor. In the US there was a town which had a Democrat run council and they voted to ban smoking in offices etc, afterwards the local hospital saw a large drop in admittances for heart attacks. Then the Republicans got in and lifted the ban and the heart attacks increased again. Smoking even a few cigarettes or through passive smoking increases the risk of a sudden heart attack. It killed a 51 year friend of mine recently and left his wife widowed with two young children to rear.

Who ?

Show, probably. I appear to be multitasking incredibly unsuccessfully.

Maybe when they can distinguish between someone getting lung cancer from smoking cigarettes as opposed to pollution in cities or living near power lines or radon poisoning. While there is no doubt that smoking can cause these diseases, I’d say its a lot harder to actually prove it was one or the other. People who don’t smoke also die of the same things as people who do smoke.

Your point is so idiotic that I don’t know why I’m even bothering to reply. How many death certificates say variations of the BRCA1, BRCA2, CDH1, STK11 genes caused the breast cancer that killed the person? Have you seen one that says, the person died because his drunken father after coming in from the pub decided to cook some chips on the gas cooker, fell asleep and the house burned down?

“I don’t know why I’m even bothering to reply.”

Then don’t.

…too late.

They can prove these things Simon it’s called Science.

Very good idea. You could vary the comments from time to time too. How about, “People who smoke smell disgusting.”

The so called Nanny states Health system is under serious pressure which will only get worse, people need to know there’s repercussions for smoking. If they don’t care about their own health, they should care about other peoples health who have to get treatment from the same health system they are unnecessarily putting under increased pressure. I am an ex smoker of 12 years by the way!

Why don’t the EU just come out and ban tobacco instead of all this bull about putting pictures on this and that. Say end of 2014 tobacco will be a Class A drug. You have 2 years to give up.

Because that then would be a nanny state! I think drugs should be legalised. People should be free to do what they want, all within reason of course, but if the state is going to have to care for you when you inevitably get very ill, it definitely has the right to warn you in advance by whatever means necessary and try to recoup tax off you to cover those expenses. I know it sounds cold, I don’t mean it to be, but our health system is in crisis!

Diarmaid , smokers pay heavily in tax which I imagine among other things is used to put back into the health system. Also smokers generally die younger meaning they won’t be claiming pensions. If more people live longer then the health system will be under ever increasing pressure, along with the pension reserves. A recent report showed that although we live longer we are getting more and more illnesses with age.
Its swings and roundabouts.

Just done some looking up on figures and spending.

the HSE is spending 13.3 billion a year ( this would include 7 billion on wages)
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revenue on smoking is 1 billion ( this is a big hole to fill if it were to disappear )
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That would be like saying that for every 13 people in hospital 1 of them is there directly because they are smokers.
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1 billion is a lot of revenue to make up.
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I’m not trying to advocate smoking, and it has many health risks, but posts banded around that smokers put pressure on the health system is just not founded. Remove smokers and their tax from the equation, and then you open up a whole lot of other pressures as listed in previous comments. you just cant blame the smokers. more and more of us live in cities full of car pollutions.

I’m not sure who you’re having the argument with, I never said smokers didn’t pay enough? I am arguing that the state is well within its rights to put pictures on cigarette boxes.

Some people obviously need a nanny, with a big stick, they are that profoundly stupid.

Just one more point . our health service is under pressure not because of more people getting ill or people not looking after their health, but mainly due to miss-management, cut the crap and waste. get more generic drugs and sort out the admin.

Hi Diarmaid. I’m not arguing with you, just pointing out some facts, when you said that .
“they don’t care about their own health, they should care about other peoples health who have to get treatment from the same health system they are unnecessarily putting under increased pressure”
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The fact that the revenue the generate from smoking practically cancels out the monies used in health care. and removing smoking from the equations is not a fix for our health system at it current crisis.
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If the government have the right to put the pictures on the box, then as a consumer who pays 88% of the price of tobacco directly to the government in tax, then they should have the right to not have the pictures on the box.

Simon, your point about the revenue from cigarettes cancelling the cost of smoking is nonsense.

You are leaving out the cost to the state to support the family of a dead wage earner, the “cost” of his death to the family and friends, the loss of his productivity, wages & his forgone tax. The cost to his insurance company if he had a life insurance policy, his mortgage insurance, etc. The early cost of his funeral and associated costs. If someone died from smoking early say after costing the state tens of thousands in euro to educate them before they paid it back. What about the “cost” to someone who dies an agonising death from lung cancer, from emphysema, years of chronic bronchitis, etc. What is the “cost” to someone and their relatives who has had a leg amputated, as a friend of mine’s Dad did through smoking?

What cost can you put on losing 14 years of your life, which is what the average smoker loses? 14 years of loss to his spouse who loses her life’s companion, to his children. What are those costs? Ask the children of dead smokers how much they would pay to have their mother for longer than maybe a dozen years.

People who smoke are selfish, stupid, addicts and those who try and fight genuine efforts to help them are beneath contempt.

Hi Simon, I take your point, but as you and I both know, smoking is not a choice, it’s an addiction. So while everyone has a right to be an addict if they so choose, just cause you pay to be an addict does not mean the state can shirk its responsibility to put as many warning signs as is possible in front of you!