I agree. People always argue that TDs pay and pensions are a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things. But how can anyone take talk of belt-tightening seriously when TDs and ministers are still so disproportionately well paid – after years of calls for reform of their salaries, allowances and pensions? I’m in favour of fiscal reform based on fairness and practicality, but TD and ministerial pay corrupts the whole process. It is an abomination when police and medical staff are struggling to pay basic bills.

Your right that they get too much of a pension. The point about multiple pensions is a little misleading. Anyone that moves jobs can have multiple pensions. Four pensions of little time can often be worth less than one full service. It’s not the number of pensions that matter, it’s the overall amount a person will get.

Eric

I think you misunderstand Falstaff’s point

Enda Kenny when he retires will be entitled to the FULL Taoiseach’s pension & the FULL Ministers pension & the FULL TD’s pension, though I believe his Teachers pension will not be a full pension.

So that is 3 FULL pensions on top of one another & a partial pension, all paid for out of tax payers money, as opposed to 4 partial pensions as you describe.

Anybody If I am incorrect on this please correct me.

I understand that. The problem is people keep referring to the number of pensions which is misleading. How much in total is all that matters. Some CEO’s get one pension, but its worth way more. I agree with his overall point, they get too much.

Ends will get 3 pensions, minister Taoiseach and TD, are you serious, he doesn’t deserve even one pension, does anyone know how much these 3 pensions will add up to?

Eric

My understanding is the TD’s pension is worth 50% of a TD’s salery. Ministers & Taoiseach’s pension is worth 60% of the Ministers & Taoiseach’s salery after 6 years in the role of a Minister or Taoiseach.

Again I am open to correction on those figures.

Julie

Why do you think Civics is not an exam subject at 2nd level?

What’s even better is they are “entitled” to claim €15k on top of their salaey per year in unvouched expenses.

That’s the point I’m making, the overall amount is the only way to judge it. It’s far too much as I keep saying.

Can’t the Guards retire at 50, get a full pension and then go on to do security work or anything else on the side?

David , Enda Kenny can get a pension for being a TD, minister and Taoiseach and then go work wherever doing whatever he wants after he retires, but I’m sure he will have enough of the tax payers money gathered that he won’t have to worry about working again.

Julie

Just like the €100k Be Be Be Bertie got for the “How to run a successful Government” speech on he gave in Nigeria after he retired.

Please cop on.
Money is Power.
Politics is about getting power.
Therefore Politics is about Power & Money.

David

There are various reasons why Gardai, who have served a long enough period, can retire at 50.

Let me ask you this.

Would you be happy with a lone 64 year old Garda being on duty in a car that would not pass an NCT, being involved in a high speed car chase on a wet night down country roads chasing a gang who have just robbed a pub at gun point?

By the way should you fail to answer I will take you agree this is not acceptable.

That’s funny Bertie gave a speech in Nigeria I watched a documentary on the struggle between the people living their and the oil companies. What he tell them to do, give all yer money to the corporations and let the people starve with no water, education or basic rights. Sure they have great rates on our own oil, no royalties, no obligation to sell it back to us and tax is at low rate and written off 100% against cost. It used to be church and state that ran thing, it’s now state and corporations.

Money power and greed and I think small egos that needed to be made bigger have left the world unequal and unjust.

On that documentary last night on RT to see the way these people live because of other people greed made me sick.

Sorry gone away off the point. I just have been doing a lot of research this world is rotten, but rotten where it matters at the top.
We are bombarded with small problem after small problem makes it hard to look at the bigger picture and join the dots.

A Taoiseach’s current pension in total is €5,000 per week (Five thousand euros Per Week!!) A Minister’s current pension in total is €4,500 per week (Four thousand, five hundred euro Per Week!!)

They can retire at 50 if they have completed 30 years service, which is rare at that age plus not many can because of family and mortgage commitments

Terence are you serious, that makes me so angry! And they have the audacity to ask frontline staff to take a cut. Guards nurses etc get out their and start protesting, ye don’t deserve another cent taken off ye. If they can afford the most corrupt politicians pension Bertie than they certainly can afford yer premium for working unsociable hours. Everyone else follow on from tralee say no, ballyhea says no, rathoath says no, Killarney says no, skibereen says no, and that only a few many more joining us and we will all be gathering in ballyhea for a group protest on the 3rd of march. Come on ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Not all Gardai have to retire at the age of 50. Gardai and Sergeants can retire after 30 years service or at the age of 50, whichever comes first. Some can retire at 48 years of age if they joined at 18. Inspectors can retire at 55 – Superintendents can retire at 60 and Assistant/Deputy and Commissioner can retire at 65.

Julie – that’s the pension which Bertie Ahern and Mary Hearney etc. are on. It may have changed downward slightly since there was a reduction in the salaries when Dame Enda took office – but it’s no more than a couple of hundred euro a week reduction.

Your wrong there Terence at 48 even if you have 30 years service you can’t retire until you get to 50 and if 50 or over cant retire until you have 30 years service unless you reach 60 years of age without 30 years service you have to retire

Ministers on salaries of € 162,000 per year plus expenses and TD,S on € 92 .000 plus €60 ,000 unvouched TAX FREE expenses tell us we must take financial pain to restart the economy, ALL POLITICIANS ARE SELF SERVING GANGSTERS who are feasting while the ordinary working people suffer cut after cut, When are we ALL going to stand up and say enough ?

Comment of the week! (wish I could give more than 1 green thumb)

*Falstaff

No, you cannot retire from AGS before 50 and you have to have 30yrs service. Anyone who joined in the last 5 years has to work until at least 55 regardless of service. Nobody in AGS can work past 60 without an exemption from the govt.

They are entitled to retire after 30 years service. They are then free, as with all other retired humans, to engage in labour if they wish to.

After April 2004, joining date, Gardai must go till they are 55 subject to having done 30 yrs.

I can’t complain really, even though I have worked bloody hard for the past 47 years , I now receive the massive sum of €225 each week pension. wow, I wonder which golf club I should join.

Are you referring to all those 2012 vehicles?

No Daniel, in fact there are very few 12 reg cars compared to all the 06 and 07 cars which are still in use which seems to be the vast majority of the fleet.

And remember these cars and vans are on the road 24/7 too so the mileage has reached the roof too

Daniel corrigan who gave u a keyboard. Get ur facts before u type. Fingers in action before the brain kicks in me thinks

Daniel, you wouldn’t be talking about the 12 reg Avensis which were not the first choice of the experts who assessed the vehicles on trial, but were bought anyway because they were the cheaper option?

I’m in the L district in Dublin and we are driving 02 and 04 Ford Focus cars and the marked patrol car is an 06, I wouldn’t know what the inside of a 12 registered car looks like

12D patrol cars with minimum 200,000km on clock and every km driven a hard one! Family Saloons and Estates not fit for purpose!!

I drive a may 2011 avensis patrol car but there’s 205000 kilometres on it, being driven by 30 different people, at times at high speed, a car that wasn’t built for use as a police car but as a family saloon have a guess what kind of condition it’s in

The Gardai are now being issued with a fleet of 13 reg painter & decorators Ford Transit mini vans. Top speed 105 km/h. Smart policing indeed….

Have u tried driving that avensis into any sort of corner!!! That will wake u up at half five in the morning!!

It’s like a roller coaster at Disneyland you haven’t control over either car

Damien

Correction, no other Citizen get paid travelling expenses for travelling to and from work.

Is that accurate Damien? If it is than that’s a total disgrace…this should be publicised more in the media, shame on these TDs.

That’s what they got for the year 2012. They all hand in there individual claims. It’s a laugh. Some got more in travel last year than the average public sector worker gets in 2 years.

That was 7.2 million a year . 21.6 million every 3 years.

GRA and AGSI now too Gerry. Both bodies representing around 95% of entire force.

Agreed John my error gardai are doing what is needed in this country leading from the front

Gerry – they are not actually allowed participate in the Croke Park II talks because they are not allowed to be members of the ICTU.

Yet if they had agreed to go and sit in a side room they would have been tied into the whole sham of a process and have an overpaid union official who knows nothing about their problems speaking on their behalf by right union’s should have balloted their members before entering these talks they have no mandate to even be in there croake park 1 has a long way to run yet

It’s time for people to realise the major problems and the fact that the Gardai just cannot take any more financial cuts. Their families are financially struggling and are borrowing from credit unions to pay utility bills and family members to get by. The Gardai have a duty to serve the people of this county and by doing this they put their lives at risk. The government has a duty to the Gardai and all frontline emergency services by recognising this.

where is SIPTU in all this sitting with Enda Eamon ect just like before they sat with Bert Brian ect so no change there then

One man broke it already, but he’s ex army! Work to rule no longer the fool. Well done lads, keep it goin!

You are right Chris. They have been taken advantage of completely up to now by management. Having to use their own personal equipment on a constant basis to supplement the inadequacies of An Garda Siochana. That goes for many frontline services….Great to see someone finally standing up to this Government.

You should read articles 9.3 and 15.4 of the irish constitution….. and if you are a garda you should start interpretting it for the good of the nation as a whole …IMHO

bunreacht na heireann won’t pay my mortgage !!

Bunreacht na heireann if adhered to properly, might mean that this nation was run properly and you could be paid plenty to pay your mortgage…and that’s the point …
if you don’t get then that’s fine …just trying to help break down the inner greed that seems to have permeated this country!…………. if everyone stays looking in their own pockets then the government will work away …as i see it !…just an opinion ….. oh and one other thing about bunreacht na heireann is this …..according to same ….we are all equal ….so why are you working and paying a mortgage and other people who don’t work get a free house ?…other people who in the case of that bosnian family who got over 80,000 in benefit for example , and who don’t even vote , unlike that other family who were going to get a free 230,000 house in Donegal ! ….

Normal rules don’t apply to them. Thought you’d know that at this stage.

How right you are.
Rules like getting fair recompense from your employer for carrying out a job.

Rules like having to bring your own personal equipment to work to prop up the job as the state refuses to provide.

Rules like been provided with substandard equipment and training.

Are those the normal rules you refer to ?
Keep you biased crap to yourself.

Willie i believe Darragh was refering to Politicians.

The tax did pay for a whole heap new ipads for tds lately!!

Everyone wants to address Politicians pay,pensions and perks,well that is everyone except Politicians.

Add to that County Managers many of whom receive more than the PM of Spain and as far as I know all county councils are in debt and overspend every year

There is still 1 in the black down in the southwest Billy

I think our brilliant elected government might use strike breakers as seen in this disturbing footage the quality is poor http://youtu.be/TRUj8dma0oo

There is only one law and Gardaí are acting entirely within it.

Shane you requested that Gardai post their P60 so you can look at them.Their P60 is private as is yours,but their rates and allowances are available online.

When the public have nowhere to turn to they call us. The support of the public would be nice. Now we’ve nowhere to turn (no union recognition)… Are you going to support us??

Public support would be nice and very appreciated… But, again, it won’t pay my mortgage. My priorities are and always will be at home. Everything else is and always will be secondary!!

Maybe not everyone supporting Frontline Alliance on here is a Garda. I can’t answer that and neither can you.

Huh??

Something to hide Lepolda?

Karolyn

Only his European civil right to privacy.

You must be on pulse I take it…tut tut

Sandra

Have you got a car?
Have you ever applied for Garda clearance?

Guess where you are?

Yes, yes and so what? I’m glad gardai have access to check out people to see if the people they come across are involved in any criminal activity….I think this is referred to as intelligence and is a widely used European operation.

Sandra

Yes to investigating criminal activity.

However it has been proven that members of the Gardai have used Pulse to check up on people not under investigation for any criminal activity. From memory suspensions were handed out to Gardai who used Pulse to check up on Lotto winners.

It is using Pulse in that way that Leopoldo, I & you should be concerned about.

Well if they were disciplined then what’s the problem now? I’m sure there are a few bad apples in every job. That’s not what this subject is about. Its about protesting over pay cuts. You either agree with it or don’t. And by your earlier posts I assume you don’t agree also. Are you debating with me just for the sake of debating with me? If so please note that I won’t partake. As absolutely every tiny point can be debated.

Proven by who?

Why would a lotto winner be on PULSE? Am I missing something here? PULSE is also being misused by management to check up on individual Gardai which it was never designed for. Again the Gardai have to just take it.

If memory serves that was people who worked for dept.of social welfare?!

Social welfare staff not Gardai!

Still waiting on a cop to publish there p60 and show the public what they actually earn,there has been so much talk and figures been thrown around at least the public will know what there pay and allowances are.

What way do you suggest they protest? They are entitled to refuse to use their own personnel equipment ie phone,car.Also if a Garda car is unfit for purpose under health and safety legislation they are within their rights in refusing to use it.

I’d love to hear your suggestions for a more ‘healthy’ type of protest Stephen. That’s an odd comment. This story represents a significant development as you now have Gardaí from rank/file right through to middle management involved in this dispute. The Government will have to take serious note here.

Shane Garda rates of pay and allowances are available online,Their individual P60 frankly is none of your business as yours is noone’s business but your own.

So you’d use your own personal equipment for work purposes including your car and you’d do it for free ?
You’d drive substandard and some times unsuitable vehicles despite not been afforded proper training.
Tell me exactly what law are the gardai breaking ?
Educate your self regarding the facts before you comment.

What aspect of not using your private phone, digital camera, laptop or computer fob to benefit your employer or driving a patrol car which is defective is illegal? Please enlighten me.

All pay rates are on line. Garda.ie or GRA.ie. all complete with pre and post cuts, pension levy, USC etc etc. do so research. It might occupy some of your time.

All pay rates are on line. Garda.ie or GRA.ie. all with pre and post pension levy, cuts, USC etc etc. do some research. It might occupy your time. You obviously have nothing else to do.

Acting within the law, voicing their opinions in a free press & picketing in an entirely legal fashion while off-duty is a perfectly healthy way of protesting.

Shane King Why are you so interested in their P60′s will you post your P60 and while your at it your bank statement too What has their P60 got to do with you??? FOOL or Jealous which are you or you are just very immature

This infuriates me. Gardai, nurses, doctors, public servants are all publicly employed, all the information you need is publicly available through the various union / representative websites. You do not need to be so rude as to ask what it is we’re being paid (to save, protect lives in many cases) – go Google.
Rude.

Hi Stephen here you go again spouting crap.

1. Asking any employee to not comply with Health & Safety legislation and procedures is itself a breach of the law for which any employer including the state can and will be fined for doing. So if any Garda objects to performing his duties on the grounds of health and safety he or she is fully allowed to do so.

2. Any employee of a private company is allowed under tax law to be paid expenses where they use their own property in the course of their employers business. The most common form of this is the millage allowance paid for using the private car. In fact each and every member of Seanad Éireann is allowed claim mileage or travel expenses when travelling to and from their place of work the Dáil Éireann or constituency offices. That is not something afforded to the normal Irish Citizen by the way. Therefore to allow some employees of the state to receive payment for the use their own property in the course of their work and not afford others the same rights could easily be considered as not being in compliance with Article 40 of BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN.

So get back in your box and let the people who know what they are talking about get on with coming up with solutions to the problems that exist in this state.

then how do you suggest they protest stephen?? if these devastating cuts are introduced to legislation they will never be brought back.

Shane I like you have the wrong country no “cops” here just Gardai !!!

What law is not being upheld?

Troll!

Only 5 years – wonder why?

Because John, I was stationed in Dublin and was told too forget about every seeing my home in Cork for at least another 5 years. I was engaged with a house built and an impending wedding. I took the decision to pack in the job and return to Cork, where I took up a low paid private sector job and never looked back. I hope my post didn’t come across as being anit-public service as I empathise with all the low paid public sector workers who are caught in a proverty trap because of greedy unions and the government. Look at what they have achieved, splits in the staff. The old divide and conquer tact.