weekend pay in the private sector? It’s x days a week, whatever five days it might be.
Amazing how important the Sabbath has become for a nation of 10% churchgoers.

I worked in the private sector, retail mgt, before I worked in the public sector. I received double time in both for working Sundays. I also got a handsome Christmas bonus in the private sector. No such thing in the public. Granted its swings and roundabouts regarding job security and pensions, but I work damn hard in my public sector job for little reward or acknowledgement. Its not a bed of roses as some in the private sector try to make out.

So if a doctor tells you you need surgery, do you refuse unless they cut themselves open first?

Lots of people here trying ma

The bank should never have let you borrow the money in the first place. What income were you expecting to have this year when you were taking the loan out?

How much was the house, and how much is the mortgage??
Could you afford it, did you overextend yourself?

A mortgage should be 1/3 of core pay after tax, assuming this and with cuts, it should still be affordable to you.

i love this public sector threat to ‘become inefficient again’ if someone threatens my pay. What a childish sense of entitlement.

We should privatise everything, tear up all the public sector paypackets and dissolve the public pension funds.

Starting from scratch seems the only way forward. Rehire whoever is needed to do the job.

That is what private sector life is like folks, and private sector has the added privilege of paying for the public sector.

well people seem to think garda job is singing few forms patroling arresting someone and thats it but when not in this line of work people dont see the other tasks, the mountain of paperwork involved, the very horror things that a guard must witness. The counselling a garda must give to families. In most other countries police go to court and lawyer prosecutes and police are just witnesses. Here unless its a trial its the guards job on a hearing day something we do on normal pay where in any other country a lawyer would command a huge salary for.

Of course not to mention the sheer danger thats involved when going to a call and not knowing what is waiting, ive been confront by men with swords, knifes legs of tables. Ive been punched at, kicked at and even put in hospital after being rammed stopping a break in. Been rammed lots of times. I think i earn my 40k

signing few forms *** of course i could sing doing that also but might get some odd looks

Benny Benny Benny
Let’s at least be honest in the discussion. Nobody has suggested refusing pay for working on a Sunday but double time for what is an ordinary day is just not on any more.

@Richard Rodgers…Sunday is an ordinary day? well said by someone who obviously works 9-5 Monday to Friday.

Or doesn’t work at all

Dillon, you’re another who could do with passing a simple IQ test before being allowed to post. So if people don’t like cuts to their wages and struggling with bills, crap health system, in fear in their own homes…..solution= move abroad. I just got a bad pint in Dublin, I’ll move to Cork so. Not as simple as packing a suitcase

Nobody said you had to move to Cork, John. Now that would be a step too far.

good man john but you can’t pass an iq test, just like you can’t fail one- although you’d give it a go, must be a three four man

That statement offended me…I’m moving abroad. The answer to all life’s problems

Michelle

It isnt private vs public, it is taxpayer vs people taking tax for pay, and often at huge rates with indefensible allowances etc.

The public sector pay bill is far too high for our little country, and we don’t collect enough tax to pay it, and never will. It has to be reformed.

Yes of course, start at the top, but everyone and every dept will have to examined, all inefficiencies removed, all surplus people removed, all dead weight removed etc.

Yes everyone is getting hammered, and the private sector worker is carrying the can, trying to pay for all the public sector excess and waste, as-well as the debt. And we cannot do it, we are borrowing massively to cover day to day costs, and it has to stop.

It would be great if we could afford everything but we can’t, so it is either pay cuts across the board, or staff reductions, there is no other way.

Best case scenario, remove this stupid job for life idea, and let people go when not needed like the rest of the economy.

And do you think the public sector does not pay taxes ???

@Kelley

I don’t just think so it is a fact.

The 100% gross any public servant is paid is from collected tax from private enterprise.
They return some as tax, but this is just a slight of hand, and accounting exercise. They simly return some of the original taxes they were paid with….do you get it?

If no tax was collected from the private sector where do you think the money comes from the pay public wages?

The total pot collected from the private sector isn’t enough to pay for inflated public sector any longer and reform and cuts are needed.

We can not continue to borrow money to pay for public sector out of proportion to our tax take.
(All tax is private generated, tax can only be generated on added value, be it profit, labour, services etc).

And once it happens wont be long till the private sector reduces payments for workers again. Move to foreign cheaper countries.

Er that’s basically what they do every day Paul. They don’t need permission from the GRA or the CPSU.

That is the socialist dream: low wages, success & wealth is discouraged as evil, have everyone working for peanuts.

I blame Labour and their socialist influence on Government decisionmaking.

Rape? No, Fraud yes, why aren’t the Garda investigating the government for the fraud committed during the general election? Several government ministers have stated in public that they told un-truths to get elected, this was fraud/deception committed against every Irish citizen, the last time I looked fraud was a criminal offence.

Precisely what section of the theft and fraud offences act did they contravene ?

Go to a Garda station and make a statement of complaint. See how far you get with that one. Good luck.

@Ryan- I have to ask in all honesty; do you realise how bambi-esque innocent you sound when you harp on about a Government that inherited a bankrupt country implementing cuts? Did you expect Mardi-gras?

The truth is free. No matter how banjaxed (and they knew before the election) the country is, they could at least tell us the truth.
It is insulting to our intelligence to simply switch stories and make like they never said “X hospital won’t be downgraded”, “No cuts to allowances”, “Not one one more red cent on Anglo” and all the other stuff we are supposed to magically forget.

@pat- Yes. Because our electorate rewards honesty at the ballot box, doesn’t it?

If you can find one open of course.

Are that shower of overpaid, underworked, spoiled babies still crying about wage cuts that haven’t even happened yet? If its good enough for the decent ordinary people of Ireland, then it’s good enough for them!

I see someone is posting under yet another new name but forgot to change style of insults.

Michael
You’re being willfully childish and also telling porkies. No Member of Dail Eireann ever made such a statement.

He does.

Well said . 100% agree . Howlin et al . Are showing their true colours really . I and my family voted for them last election , never again .

dont worry about garda haters :) all those we arrest feel they can vent on here and leave them at it :)

in fairness some people out there do have concerns and feel for their own reasons that pay cuts should happen. Thats their opinion and they are entitled to it. However, its like i stated the vast vast majority of the public dont know who say the garda organisation works :) for example even watching something like love/hate we get giggles at how inaccurate the guards are when they are in it but closest thing to real that ive seen at same time :) the sheer amount of tasks that we have is huge. In fairness half stuff we do should be done by civilians. even investigations i would love to show a court file for a trail (of course thats not possible everything is confidential) but a criminal case the file can be massive by the time its done its your talking couple of inches thick and thats all work the garda has to type up to the highest standards. Of course you could have 4 or 5 investigations on the go at once. People tend not to know about that side of things either.

Noone wants to see a strike, i really dont want to do anything that puts the public out but im afraid there is no longer a choice and it is unstoppable now. it will happen no maybe about it

Where is this “front line” you speak of? Too much drama on here. You’re dealing with Irish citizens on this “front line” not Genghis Khan and the Mongol horde.

well thats trolling if i ever saw it :) so not even going to answer that one pure ignorance

@Censored if you want to see the front line go out in any town in the country on a saturday night and have a look around. You may just be surprised.

Ok I challenge any Garda or frontline worker to do my job, and of course they couldn’t.
Unless they have the required 10yrs exp, + degree + post grad they will find it impossible.

Now what have I proved by this, Nothing!!

Fact 1 = Public sector pay bill + Pensions is unsustainable high
Fact 2 = Tax used is collected from Private sector
Fact 3 = Reductions need to be across the board
Fact 4 = The real taxpayers (private) will no longer accept the waste
Fact 5 = Pay in public sector is very high

Thats exactly why the hurlers on the ditch like IBEC are throwing in their tuppenceworth its a race to the bottom so those at the top can make more. I was just looking up an article about welfare fraud which was estimated at 2.5-3 billion by a prime time investigates led investigation. Now I know they had their problems but even if its only 1 billion why are we not targeting this ? Trolls please answer why, Reganold should this not be a priority ?

Can someone explain the red thumbs?

Plonkers

Cartels red thumbing, I’d say.

Yes ..red for danger ,green for go

Yes ..red for danger ,green for go take a f%*k off tablet, then follow your urges

Ignorance must be bliss, another coward hiding behind a mask. Donno why the Journal allows face people or groups on.

Should have read “faceless” and directed at faceless Willie

Apologies ISBA that wasn’t intended for you. I take your point though and will endeavour to provide you with my name, address and PPS number post haste :-)

Much appreciated Willie. We view our work as very important. It centres around white collar crime, legal corruption and government protection for white collar criminals – always at the expense of Joe Citizen. If we were to create a balance between corporate power and citizen power, we would have a much fairer economy and much more competitive too. Cartels kill jobs and suffocate economies.

ISBA provides a valuable service unmasking faceless posters and stifling free speech. Bring on the DNA tests.

Is that the same benchmarking that was brought in an attempt to create parity between the pay scales in the public and private sectors.

Before you ride your benchmarking pony off into the sunset do remember Dillon that it was originally introduced because private sector wages were significantly higher than those in the public sector. This was simply used as a technique to bridge the gulf.

1). That gulf has be proven to be a fantasy and 2). The job security that comes with a civil service job is worth every penny of any disparity that may exist in certain areas. Ask anyone fearing for their job in the private sector how large a pay cut they would take to secure a job for life. Anyway. The point is: the Civil Service demanded to be dealt in in the good times. They can do likewise now.

Well said…

Yes the gulf is a fantasy now, perhaps.
However I assure you at the tine if benchmarking’s introduction it was very much a reality.

Job security will be of cold comfort to these people when they can’t afford mortgages, food etc etc.
It is a very narrow view of the situation you have adopted, you have chosen to completely ignore the private sectors responsibility for this mess.
Was it not the unmitigated greed of private sector banks of private sector builders of private sector property developers that landed us in this mess in the first place. It is because of their reckless greed and contempt that we can now not afford public sector wages.
Every body recognises the public sector needs reform, but at least let it be equitable and just. Trying to play one against the other is pathetic and displays a limited understanding.
Personally if I was going to hurl abuse and vitriol at those workers in the public sector I’d have a look at where I was throwing it from. I think you’ll find the private is a fairly shitty place to throw it from.

@willie- actually, regulation of the banks was in the hands of civil servants. Who, I think we all can agree dropped the ball. So what was your point again? Similarly it was civil servants who guaranteed the banks. So your point was?

And to get back to my original point- does anyone know…in terms of average take-home pay, are Gardai up or down if you compare pre-benchmark pay with projected pay after the cuts?

I think you’ll find it was the auditors (private sector auditors) who dropped the ball. The government based their actions on the auditors advise. I’m not defending the government in the slightest bit but to class civil servants as the same across the board is ridiculous.

@brian- advisors advise, Governments govern. That’s why they’re in the big bucks.

@Dillon
Fair enough, they based their actions on bad advice from private sector auditors. But you are missing the point. You are blaming ordinary public sector workers for the actions of the government. You cannot just lump ordinary public sectors with government TD’s etc

My point was that you appear to have a very narrow and misinformed understanding of what actually happened. Are you seriously trying to dump the blame on civil/public servants for the actions of bankers? The same bankers that EVERYONE widely acknowledges pushed the sayonara button on the economy.
I partially take your point about regulation of the banks but it’s poorly made at best and at worst ludicrous, based on that logic if a person commits a crime and the police don’t apprehend them then liability shifts from the offender to the police.
Sounds stupid doesn’t it.

Dillon, i think gardai got 7% during the benchmarking exercise and their wages like most public sector have been cut by 20% on average since 2008.

Send me your email address and we can exchange pay slips and see how over paid we are! Why not log in with your real name, more faceless heroics this country is great at producing! The private sector haven’t taken a fraction of the cuts public sector have taken, but that’s beside the point and its exactly the scenario the government wants to create public v private instead of the broken promises it has made to this county! The current government have no mandate to govern this country as they were elected on broken promises and lies! They have shown a complete inability to deal with the financial crisis in our banks, the ECB is cutting interest rates for the past 3 years yet our plonkers can’t force the banks to pass that on to hard pressed mortgage holders instead they have increased mortgage rates and all this becomes even more incredulous when we actually own the banks

Nigel- 15% of the private sector is unemployed. And there have been massive pay cuts across the private sector. A sector who on average get paid less and take a fraction of the “sick leave” the civil service does. But don’t let the truth get in the way if your rant, will you?

im public service and ive taken maybe 3 sick days in 5 years so please dont assume that we all take sick days for the hell of it. so of us have work ethic

Alot of guards and nurses rent out houses…. they bought plenty in the good times

@ Tom Maguire
What planet are you on? Guards nurses etc eek out a living by working crazy hours weekends and bank holidays. Your stupid comment about them being multiple landlords is a complete BS!

Few out of 12,000 doesnt equal all

If your want to see mine your more than welcome – not in public domain because its unfair and people are entitled to privacy….

The entitelement to privacy goes out the window when I hear people talk about how little they earn and why they shouldn’t get a pay cut.. What is the big deal? People are too sensitive about their pay packets and finances in general. They can blank out the employee number and display it online through their union.

The P60′s would be very enlightening, for some of the Gardai and Nurses play the poor mouth.

Then we could see the truth of the matter.

Idiot

it is dealt with in same way and point is that your missing is for the skill sets involved we are underpaid. I have qualification in software development, granted ive been out of that loop for along time but say guys i would have been in college with earn far more then i do with same qualifications as me. in fact i even have more then that. most guards would be the same. the issue is most of the garda force has lost alot on average about maybe 10k per year. most people i know in private have not taken that kind of hit. So really the front line should not have to pay anymore. if they want cost cutting start at the guys who are not front line but commanding double what i do and have less work then i do.

Of course your entitled to your views :) but looking at other forces around the world garda pay was on par but its less now on average

There is a shortage of skilled people in the IT sector at the moment. Maybe that’s why some of the people you happen to know haven’t take a pay cut. That’s just one sector, where do you think the 15% (or so) unemployed came from? I didn’t see the PS queuing up to share in the pain when dot bomb happened and lots of software people lost their jobs. Again just one example. You can’t make these comparisons. The State is bust. It’s all taxes and pain from here on out. FF/FG/Labor voters made that choice.

oh i dont know maybe building sector and all the feed in industries to that maybe??

Speak for urself

The thumbs have spoken…

Regonald u must have been fined for having no light on your bile when you were a young fella, your contempt for the Gardai is palpable

i’m serious ! …if they cut your pay ..burn the bondholders …if the government won’t follow the mandate then the workers can by burning defunct banks ….just an idea for debate ….. put your money into your local credit union and rearrange your mortgage …it’s not your fault if the banks are slow …… it takes a week for a cheque to clear ! …banks are slow and they are also being lined upo to be sold back to bond holders at a discount that our pension funds will take the hit for! …just a suggestion ..I don’t care either way ……. cajones or talk or just hot air ? you decide !

Public servants never gambled to the tune of Fingleton, et al, but the state bailed out their debts……..

Public servants keep this country from grinding to a halt daily, but in your warped logic we are now all as bad as those bast#*ds because we want to be able to continue scraping by & paying our bills????

Tell me this, who in the private sector will be sacked by your employer for falling into mortgage arrears that you cant repay due to your pay being cut by that very same employer ??

This isn’t a out living a cushy lifestyle, this is literally survival for us. If these cuts come in I’d literally be better off on the same dole as the rest of the unfortunate private sector victims of this fiasco. Still a “financial burden to the state” but without giving anything back for it.

If that’s what people really think is a solution then God help Ireland……

John your comment just shows how misinformed you are. You are way way off and those figures are dubious at best. The average employee in the public sector has been decimated with cuts, these people have carried the burden and paid their share.
What about whole swathes of the private sector who have taken no cuts at all, admittedly they have seen no increases either. If these cuts are successful and the government succeeds in removing circa 1 billion from the public sector wage bill, have you calculated for the knock on effect on your seemingly beloved private sector? Put whatever spin on you will but its a billion euro of spending power removed from the pockets of Irish citizens. I personally don’t know what the net effect will be but I’m guessing everyone will be a looser.
I’m also failing to see your comparison between the once golden boy of the private sector who’s now been shown to be one of the most corrupt and inept individuals to grace these fair shores and a collection of people trying to survive and stop themselves from being cut into oblivion.

wrong… before allowances ??? i wish i am on 40 with alot of years behind me buddy and i can assure you i earn every cent of it for the tasks i have to do. Im not demanding more even thought with my qualifications i would be earning more for my age in private. I’m just saying enough is enough and im not giving any more. Thats what this is all about

What you forget is when you go over the €41000 threshold, the tax increases, so your probably not get much more when you factor in the tax deductions. Public sector 7.5% usc & 7.5% pension levy on last few budgets -thats 14% of the wage gone already and still have to factor in all other tax deductions. Misinformation is a dangerous device John. Private sector avoided those cuts!

Public servants on huge salaries and wonderful pensions failed abysmally in their prudential supervision of the Irish Banks and lending institutions. Banks and property developers have propensity to go wild. Banks will lend recklessly. The Central Bank of Ireland and IFSRA failed fundamentally to do what they were very generously paid to do.

Yes, Banks traded recklessly and imprudently. Yes, Developers borrowed to the hilt and then flew the coop. But the sector paid to regulate , the watchdogs, not only failed to bark. They licked the hands of those they were to regulate. That’s where the most fundamental and egregious failures occurred.

Ah yes John we have the privilege of going to fatal road traffic accidents and after attending the scene we have the privilege of going to the family of the deceased informing them of what has occurred. We have the privilege of working Sundays, nights, public holidays and during these lovely occasions we have to deal with assaults, drunks, rapes, murders. We are privileged to get abused, spat at and assaulted by the public. We have the privilege of being the first people called to suicides and tragic deaths. We have the privilege of being investigated by the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission when something happens to us off duty that isn’t our fault and it always gets the news headlines. Not so privileged now is it John try walking a mile in the shoes of any Frontline worker for a week and see how you would fare out. It’s a bit like the scene in A Few Good Men when Nicholson said to Cruise men are needed to stand on the wall, are you that man John I don’t think so. Perhaps before you try to criticise what you patently know nothing about you might learn to spell.

We ARE privileged to have a first class front line service in this country I would not swap it for anything. We have seen first hand how well all the services work in pressure situations and indeed it is the pressure that brings the most out of us.

Complete and utter drivel interspersed with populist waffle and S indo spin. Blaming the games keeper for the actions of the poacher is preposterous. These bankers were meant to be financial experts, the best and brightest financial minds this country could offer and yet they couldn’t foresee or stop the inevitable consequences of their actions. What hope had a toothless regulator?
If you want and you do seem determined to place some blame on the public sector then lay it at the feet of the politicians for inadequate legislation concerning the regulation of the banking industry.

‘contribute most taxes’ is that individually or collectively as from what I know individually the public servant actually pays more than the private servant on the same wage, however collectively it’s obviously more as there are more people employed by the private sector, just food for thought

@michelle

Public servant are paid with taxes from the private sector.

The “taxes” public servants pay is just giving back some the origional taxes they were paid with.

Understand??

There is a limited pot of taxes collected from private enterprise and labour, taxes can only be generated on profit and the “generation” of money though adding value.

This pot is what is used to pay for public pay, and it is not enough to cover it.

This is the real food for thought

None of them will show there pay slip and they still want our support

Nobody willing to divulge?